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Post by azarhal on Dec 6, 2016 22:34:27 GMT
I know. I'm just saying it frustrated me. It added nothing to the SP and was clearly only there because of MP. DAI MP is limited to 4 skills not 8...
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Post by CHRrOME on Dec 7, 2016 0:23:32 GMT
Oh and speaking of, looks like we're back to thermal clips too. Surprised no one's talking about that. I think we did, somewhere... so many threads discussing the same it's hard to keep track. Personally I don't know what to think. I mean, realistically speaking, how come Andromeda has TCs too? They can't expect us to believe that milky wayers use TCs and andromedians use self-propelled ammo or some shit, and somehow (using space magic possibly) we have crates on the maps that replenish just the type of ammo we need. CrutchCricket : I saw a weapon in the latest video (around 4:05) that was like the particle rifle in ME3, so it is possible that we are getting both types. This one? No, that's a new gun. Same principle, but new. I get your point, but I doubt there will be different types of ammunition (if that's what you meant), all guns will surely use the same. I'd be dead surprised if it's otherwise. My money goes for TCs and heat-system like in ME1 at best.
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Post by hammerstorm on Dec 7, 2016 0:35:11 GMT
No, that's a new gun. Same principle, but new. I get your point, but I doubt there will be different types of ammunition (if that's what you meant), all guns will surely use the same. I'd be dead surprised if it's otherwise. My money goes for TCs and heat-system like in ME1 at best. yes, that weapon. I know that it is a new weapon, (and I believe that it is a remnant weapon) my point was that it was recharging like the prothean weapon did. And shooting LAZERS pewpew! I have no opinion about the ammo. But you are most likely correct that they are going to keep the old way.
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Post by Bioware-Critic on Dec 8, 2016 9:08:18 GMT
Their reasoning is likely based on unifying SP and MP. I don't get that either. I think they're hoping to bring in more of the shooter crowd, and I don't mean that cynically. Think about things long-term. Some may not love the adjustments to gameplay, though many will. Either way, as long as they keep the "BioWare elements" strong -- the great characters and fun stories-- they won't lose core ME fans. The improved shooter mechanics are more likely bring in and keep new players, though. I'm sure they're hoping MP will draw them in, and the unity of mechanics will maybe entice them into playing SP, also. Conversely, they're hoping more of us will now play MP, with the mechanics being unified. We all know MP keeps a game relevant for the non-cult audience, and it offers microtansactions. $$$ I can understand those kind of tactics for business reasons, no problem. But there is no good reason for NOT giving us at least 6 powers on hotkeys in the style DA:I offered. If you have three buttons on console (square, triangle, circle) and you can toggle them by holding down another button (L2 for example) you have the same layout as in DA:I and the button layout is essentially the same as in DA:I, aswell as in the ME:A MP and the MP from ME3. There is no good reason to take away a second layer of powers from players when the controller layout stays exactly the same (except for ONE button, to toggle the others) and the "feeling" for the combat is exactly like in the upcoming MP. For PC, of course, it is the most straight foreward: "Don't restrict anything ... STUPID! ... 'Cause ... ample keys to spare - bro!" ..."Duh!" In my opinion, the reason to make it more like multiplayer is complete bogus and a straight up lie! Just a lie. Nothing else ... EA wants the "casual" crowd from shooters and none-RPGs. That is it. On the old forum someone linked an article with an EA exec giving an interview or a short statement which gave a hint to that. I will drop the link to this tiny piece of info here: "Our Games Are Still Too Hard T Learn."
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Post by CHRrOME on Dec 8, 2016 15:07:23 GMT
EA wants the "casual" crowd from shooters and none-RPGs. That is it. On the old forum someone linked an article with an EA exec giving an interview or a short statement which gave a hint to that. Not jut EA, I'm noticing this everywhere. Every single company tries to appeal to everyone in the market, and the bigger audience are the casuals, or people that are into more straightforward-linear games. Thus, they dumb mechanics down and make games too easy to understand with no much complexity on them. I'm not pointing fingers here, just talking as a general perspective. The industry is getting "casualized" (if that word even exists), like it was at the very beginning of the videogame industry when games where just a mean of entertaining. I like to believe that videogames are much more than just entertaining today, they present a story for you to immerse yourself into and forget about everything else for a couple of hours. Their logic now is "we are not gonna make games to complex because the average player wont understand mechanics, will get frustrated and will stop playing", they're are treating the average player as an idiot, literally. And if the average player is in fact an idiot, then fuck the average player. Go play something else, not all games are meant for all people. I don't play every single game out there, not even if I could because I don't like every single game out there, and that's fine. Companies shouldn't try to drag me into their games by appealing to whatever the heck I consider fun (shooting mechanics, racing, etc). But oh well. It's a business, and they want to make as much money as possible. If that means appealing to the casual player to get more audience, so be it.
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Post by Element Zero on Dec 8, 2016 18:05:54 GMT
I think they're hoping to bring in more of the shooter crowd, and I don't mean that cynically. Think about things long-term. Some may not love the adjustments to gameplay, though many will. Either way, as long as they keep the "BioWare elements" strong -- the great characters and fun stories-- they won't lose core ME fans. The improved shooter mechanics are more likely bring in and keep new players, though. I'm sure they're hoping MP will draw them in, and the unity of mechanics will maybe entice them into playing SP, also. Conversely, they're hoping more of us will now play MP, with the mechanics being unified. We all know MP keeps a game relevant for the non-cult audience, and it offers microtansactions. $$$ I can understand those kind of tactics for business reasons, no problem. But there is no good reason for NOT giving us at least 6 powers on hotkeys in the style DA:I offered. If you have three buttons on console (square, triangle, circle) and you can toggle them by holding down another button (L2 for example) you have the same layout as in DA:I and the button layout is essentially the same as in DA:I, aswell as in the ME:A MP and the MP from ME3. There is no good reason to take away a second layer of powers from players when the controller layout stays exactly the same (except for ONE button, to toggle the others) and the "feeling" for the combat is exactly like in the upcoming MP. For PC, of course, it is the most straight foreward: "Don't restrict anything ... STUPID! ... 'Cause ... ample keys to spare - bro!" ..."Duh!" In my opinion, the reason to make it more like multiplayer is complete bogus and a straight up lie! Just a lie. Nothing else ... EA wants the "casual" crowd from shooters and none-RPGs. That is it. On the old forum someone linked an article with an EA exec giving an interview or a short statement which gave a hint to that. I will drop the link to this tiny piece of info here: "Our Games Are Still Too Hard T Learn."L2 already has a purpose in ME: it shoulders/aims the weapon. The real question is why there is no longer a face-key (Y, Triangle) mapped to a power? On the surface, that seems to be a shooter-optimization choice. I know we will still need to press A/X for the jet-pack, so there is still some face-key usage in combat. Still, powers up-top is very shooter-friendly. I would've been strongly against the DAI approach in ME. I thought it was a terrible design in DAI, and it would've been far worse for ME, a fast-paced game with quality, action gameplay. In my mind, there were only two options: keep the power wheel, or ditch it. They chose to ditch it. We'll see how it goes. I agree with you that the goal is to bring in more shooter fans. I said as much in my post. I think any PC player who believes they should get unrestricted key-mapping, while console players get 3 powers, is crazy. We'd be playing different games. That's not how it works. I don't think the "Games are too hard" quote is relevant, here. They have not made this game easier with this change, just different. Hell, we have people worried that they won't be able to play without the power wheel as a cheat-crutch to pause and aim-assist mid-battle. I have misgivings about the change. I'm not sure how "unrestricted build options" combines well with three active powers. There must be a lot of passives in those skill trees. I'm not sure what to expect. I'm sure it will be fun; but will it be fun for 50+ hours? Will it be Mass Effect? I think we have to play it before getting upset.
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Post by Bioware-Critic on Dec 8, 2016 22:09:18 GMT
Playing a video game at all could be described as a "matter of preference", you don't have to do it, it's just your preferred way to entertain yourself - this is no different really. The simple fact is that caster classes are very repetitive if you are forced to rely on a small amount of abilities. Any kind of variation has the potential to make such a class much more enjoyable. Ideally, different powers are meant to tackle different problems. Now admittedly, previous iterations of ME were rather terrible and unimaginative when it came to the core powers of some classes, which in turn led to many people simply sticking to the use of fewer powers, and repeating them ad nauseam. Using that as an explanation for why a 3 power limit is a "good" thing, is ironic in the extreme. Why? Because this reality was brought about by incompetent design, not necessarily player choice. So yes, Caster classes are objectively better if you have more "spells" to cast. This design is just developers idiotically aping games like "Destiny" or other games where shooting is the main activity and "Caster" classes are non existent, and forcing the MP style on the SP. As for changing powers (or respeccing), first IIRC you are only doing that in the Tempest, and also, second, it's not really relevant to SP since you never know the kind of challenges you'll meet in the next mission, and it also does nothing to alleviate repetition during gameplay. Not to mention that it makes very little sense, just like the system in DA:I, why do I need to forget how to use Throw if I want to use Singularity? The bottom line is that any design that forces players to adhere to a very particular play-style, any design that severely limits player choice in a game that supposedly has RPG elements, is a flawed and arrogant design that caters only to a section of the player base and disregards the rest. You might be among those that don't really care about this particular issue, but the next time it happens it might be with something that you do care about. Perfectly put ...
BioWare, take notice!
Kudos, Laughing Man!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think, this is how many fans will judge this style of "reinventing" beloved things, anyway. Change is no problem ... But taking away and "bottlenecking" creative freedom of the players and forcing the gameplay of the power-oriented classes (casters, like Engineer and Adept especially) down the "soldier-route" (5 ammo types, a few grenades and 1-3 Powers, please!) is just insanely disrepsectful to the series as a whole and so many fans ... And it does not bring any advantage or gain in any way! It just creates mindless button-mashing, where before we had room for tactics and freedom of choice. (Generally speaking ...)
I mean, what some "blind moles" don't seem to understand, here, is that ... "We had ammo powers before, alright ?! Taking them out of the slots and freeing up space for other things is great, no argument there. But taking away hotkeys ??? THAT IS NOT A GAIN OF ADDITIONAL FREEDOM FOR THE PLAYER - THAT IS JUST A LOSS!" wink, wink ...
Quite frankly, if you strangle every aspect of individual expression to the point where an individual cannot "breath" anymore, you will have killed the "RPG-status" of the title/series aaaaand thereby will have successfully generated a shooter, which "calls itself" a RPG because the games which preceeded it actually "were" RPG titles. If ME:A becomes like "The Division" (which calls itself a RPG but really is a shooter) ...
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Post by Bioware-Critic on Dec 8, 2016 22:31:42 GMT
@ CHRrOME ... we see eye to eye, brother
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Post by danaxe on Jan 5, 2017 19:10:40 GMT
Am I wrong in assuming we will only have 3 active abilities at any given time?
Why do they keep doing this? So far its the only thing I'm concerned about this game. Why do they keep restricting players so much?
It was the same problem with Inquisition. What's the point of having a big list of abilities to choose from and then you can only have 3 to use in battle. This is an RPG for all intents and porpuses, shouldnt we be able to use more?
Origins and DA2 we could have all of the learned abilities ready to use at any given time. Then they restricted it to only 8 in DAI, which i hated (the restriction, not the game).
In ME trilogy we can only have 8 I believe, but for any spec you really couldnt have more than 8, so that was fine. But now it seems we can learn even more skills in 1 single spec, but then we have to restrict ourselves to only 3??? Come on Bioware.... Why such restrictions??
I know, we can change loadouts and specs now, but who really wants to change their loadout before evey fight?? Its boring and nobody does it, so in the end you'll be using just the 3 that are more useful out of a huge list of abilities, giving you the awful feeling of "I wish i could also use that other ability together with this 3".
I could be wrong, and without playing the game its hard to say if its a hard restriction or not, but man... come on.. Its an RPG, gives us more choice please!!! If anyone wants to use just 3 fine, but leave the option to go over that.... Dont make me sacrifice favorite abilities for most useful abilities.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2017 19:12:37 GMT
PRE ORDER CANCELED!
Stupid console peasants fault.
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Post by Iakus on Jan 5, 2017 19:15:01 GMT
It's quite simple: the game is balanced around multiplayer with a game pad.
If you want choices, get to the back of the bus.
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Post by danaxe on Jan 5, 2017 19:18:05 GMT
I wouldnt go that far, as I said this is the only concern I have so far, and I will still play the game. But this bugs me a lot actually. For Inquisition I was hoping a mod would come to change the only 8 abilities to more, but as far as I know no one was able to mod the UI, so the chances for that happening in ME are very slim....
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Post by Ianamus on Jan 5, 2017 19:22:25 GMT
Does the jetpack take up one of those slots, or are the controls for the new movement abilities separate?
If they don't then I'm more than fine with it.
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Post by Vall on Jan 5, 2017 19:25:36 GMT
Does the jetpack take up one of those slots, or are the controls for the new movement abilities separate? If they don't then I'm more than fine with it. Doesn't look it does, in the last trailer they've been jumping around and had Overload, Flak and Flamethrower slotted.
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Post by Ianamus on Jan 5, 2017 19:47:19 GMT
Does the jetpack take up one of those slots, or are the controls for the new movement abilities separate? If they don't then I'm more than fine with it. Doesn't look it does, in the last trailer they've been jumping around and had Overload, Flak and Flamethrower slotted. In that case I don't see the issue. The new movement abilities add an entirely new dimension, both literally and metaphorically, to combat. Giving us one less ability as an expense seems fair enough to keep the controls and micromanagement reasonable.
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Post by fialka on Jan 5, 2017 19:49:53 GMT
I agree that having just three at a time seems very limiting. Everything else about the combat and profiles and such I either really like or feel like I can work with, but this I'm not happy about at all. Especially as I like to mix and match and set off combos and such. And since our squadmates are largely going to be doing their own thing rather than us being able to select what powers they use (from what I understand - correct me if I'm wrong on this) it takes away one of my favorite aspects of combat. I remember them talking about hotkeys before... did they say if that was just for weapons, or can we maybe use those for skill sets too? It'd bother me less if I can at least hotkey between skill sets during a fight, even if that's a bit of a pain too.
I mean, it's not enough for me to not want to play the game... I'm more about the story and characters and quests and such, but, still, it's a disappointing development and I really can't see what the benefit is other than to make it easier to integrate MP and use a controller - neither of which I use.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2017 19:57:55 GMT
It's quite simple: the game is balanced around multiplayer with a game pad. If you want chocies, get to the back of the bus. Which kinda sucks as I don't play BioWare games for multiplayer part and with gamepad.. But I still have hope for some better options for PC gamers P.S. Heh people were complaining about having ''only'' 8 active abilities in DAI so now we have 3..
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Post by Beerfish on Jan 5, 2017 20:03:58 GMT
I can certainly understand this beef but it seems they are trying to address it a bit with this change load on the fly kind of thing?
I also like the freedom of choice but to be honest I usually find in games that I end up just using about 3 powers anyway.
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Post by fialka on Jan 5, 2017 20:10:24 GMT
Hmm... I also just remembered that ammo types (which used to take up skill slots) are in a separate radial menu... So I suppose that's something?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2017 20:11:02 GMT
I am really quite happy with it, though I am comfortable with anything up to 7, because those are the buttons that are easy to thumb on the gaming mouse (I don't have a gaming pad, it's keyboard + mouse for me). I'd love to learn to play the games as fluidly as possible with this set-up and with as little pausing as possible. I really like it when the muscle memory works for me and the decisions are more subconscious. it is more exciting :)
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Post by Morrandir on Jan 5, 2017 20:24:21 GMT
I'd love to learn to play the games as fluidly as possible with this set-up and with as little pausing as possible. I really like it when the muscle memory works for me and the decisions are more subconscious. That works with keyboard as well with even more keys.
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Post by Iakus on Jan 5, 2017 20:28:11 GMT
It's quite simple: the game is balanced around multiplayer with a game pad. If you want chocies, get to the back of the bus. Which kinda sucks as I don't play BioWare games for multiplayer part and with gamepad.. But I still have hope for some better options for PC gamers P.S. Heh people were complaining about having ''only'' 8 active abilities in DAI so now we have 3.. You'd think they would have learned from the flak they took with that...
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Post by JayKay on Jan 5, 2017 20:29:51 GMT
I can certainly understand this beef but it seems they are trying to address it a bit with this change load on the fly kind of thing? I also like the freedom of choice but to be honest I usually find in games that I end up just using about 3 powers anyway. Pretty much. I remember by the time I got to Witch Hunt, I was surprised to find out I have a second page for abilities. I would have liked to have something more like DAI, but since the nature of the shooter (and don't get it twisted, ME has always been a shooter/RPG hybrid, they've just gotten better at the shooting over time) it needs more buttons for standard stuff like reloading.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 5, 2017 20:32:36 GMT
It's quite simple: the game is balanced around multiplayer with a game pad. If you want chocies, get to the back of the bus. Which kinda sucks as I don't play BioWare games for multiplayer part and with gamepad.. But I still have hope for some better options for PC gamers P.S. Heh people were complaining about having ''only'' 8 active abilities in DAI so now we have 3.. i don't play their games for combat generally which is why this is not a big deal. If i wanted a shoot em up I'd pop in call of duty. I can certainly understand this beef but it seems they are trying to address it a bit with this change load on the fly kind of thing? I also like the freedom of choice but to be honest I usually find in games that I end up just using about 3 powers anyway. pretty much what i always did with my sheps. Though i think it was four you could use easily.
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Origin: Abramsrunner
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Abramsrunner
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abramsrunner
Mass Effect Trilogy
Abramsrunner
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Post by Abramsrunner on Jan 5, 2017 20:34:56 GMT
Three powers on independent cooldowns, with power detonation combos, you could get some insane power sets. Combine powers with like Flamethrower, & a charged Overload which will chain up to 2 more targets, if it's like ME3MP's power combo system, that would be 3 Fire Explosions, + Flamer DoT, + the shield strip from Overload.
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