LadyofNemesis
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Apr 5, 2019 13:05:35 GMT
have some Morrigan with bab Kieran (couldn't find the artist) credit
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TheHeroOfFerelden
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Morrigan's Husband
*Searching for the Cure*
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by TheHeroOfFerelden on Apr 5, 2019 17:25:23 GMT
Hell, she is prettier than Morrigan. +The Hero Of Ferelden and Kieran (couldn't find the artist) The artist is rennoiidraws
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LadyofNemesis
N5
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Apr 5, 2019 18:02:58 GMT
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Noxluxe
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Post by Noxluxe on Apr 21, 2019 16:23:18 GMT
Bit obvious, but...
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Post by vertigomez on May 9, 2019 5:15:34 GMT
This seems like it belongs here. Consider this a Kieran appreciation post! also...... does anyone else get Brandon Stark vibes from this kid
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Post by Sifr on May 10, 2019 9:00:08 GMT
also...... does anyone else get Brandon Stark vibes from this kid Now you say it... yeah, OGB!Kieran's cryptic comments are very Bran-like.
I wonder if the devs ever contemplated calling him that instead? They've made plenty of ASOIAF nods before and the name Bran means "Raven", which is implied to be one of his mother's more frequently adopted forms.
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Post by vertigomez on May 10, 2019 12:03:43 GMT
also...... does anyone else get Brandon Stark vibes from this kid Now you say it... yeah, OGB!Kieran's cryptic comments are very Bran-like.
I wonder if the devs ever contemplated calling him that instead? They've made plenty of ASOIAF nods before and the name Bran means "Raven", which is implied to be one of his mother's more frequently adopted forms. Probably a little too on-the-nose if they did. Kieran means "little dark one" which is pretty damn close anyway... 😋
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Post by Sifr on May 14, 2019 12:32:14 GMT
Probably a little too on-the-nose if they did. Kieran means "little dark one" which is pretty damn close anyway... 😋 Yeah, it can taken as a reference to both his appearance, potentially having the soul of an Old God, and as Ciar can mean both "dark" or "black", a nice meta-reference to being voiced by Claudia Black's son.
I always geek out over meaningful character names.
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Post by vertigomez on May 18, 2019 2:19:16 GMT
Saw this and thought it had a very "Flemeth's hut" feel: "No son of mine will be raised in a marsh, bereft of contact with the outside world."brb crying forever
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Post by Sifr on May 20, 2019 9:23:19 GMT
When Flemeth removed Urthemiel's soul from OGB!Kieran and he asked it'd mean he had "No more dreams"... was that supposed to imply he had similar nightmares about Darkspawn as the Grey Wardens do? Even though Urthemiel's soul was "reborn" in an uncorrupted human rather than a tainted Old God, how much of his connection to the Darkspawn actually carried over?
I guess it's a moot point now, but I wish they'd explored that a little more.
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Post by vertigomez on May 20, 2019 15:57:40 GMT
When Flemeth removed Urthemiel's soul from OGB!Kieran and he asked it'd mean he had "No more dreams"... was that supposed to imply he had similar nightmares about Darkspawn as the Grey Wardens do? Even though Urthemiel's soul was "reborn" in an uncorrupted human rather than a tainted Old God, how much of his connection to the Darkspawn actually carried over? I guess it's a moot point now, but I wish they'd explored that a little more. Well, if you talk to him about being a templar, OGB Kieran says he can't because the lyrium gives him terrible nightmares. So it could be less of a darkspawn/Grey Warden connection and more of the whole.... untained, uncorrupted Old God thing. Maybe he has dreams about his fellow Old Gods? 🤔
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Post by Sifr on May 23, 2019 19:25:37 GMT
Well, if you talk to him about being a templar, OGB Kieran says he can't because the lyrium gives him terrible nightmares. So it could be less of a darkspawn/Grey Warden connection and more of the whole.... untained, uncorrupted Old God thing. Maybe he has dreams about his fellow Old Gods? 🤔 What if he dreams of being "killed" at the end of Origins (potentially by his own father)?
If they're anything like that, can't blame the poor kid for not wanting any more nightmares.
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Post by vertigomez on May 23, 2019 19:28:19 GMT
Well, if you talk to him about being a templar, OGB Kieran says he can't because the lyrium gives him terrible nightmares. So it could be less of a darkspawn/Grey Warden connection and more of the whole.... untained, uncorrupted Old God thing. Maybe he has dreams about his fellow Old Gods? 🤔 What if he dreams of being "killed" at the end of Origins (potentially by his own father)?
If they're anything like that, can't blame the poor kid for not wanting any more nightmares. Oooh, that's dark. Headcanon accepted.
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Post by vertigomez on Jun 4, 2019 22:14:30 GMT
Some neat Morrigan gossip if she drinks from the well. Also, Kieran.
Woman: There is a change in her. Those eyes are... deep. Man: Yes, yes, deep as the wood where you run barefoot and filthy. Woman: You know what went on. The sentinels, the ageless well, a dark promise. Man: We're fighting a Tevinter Magister from the dawn of the Blight, and you worry about a damp witch?
Woman: That child. Have you looked into his eyes? Man: Once. I will not do so again. Woman: What is it? Why is it so unnerving? Man: Perhaps the immediate gaze of his mother boring a hole through the back of your head.
Woman: The boy is deceptively lovely. Man: He was schooled in the best of places. Woman: I hear his father is a Grey Warden - I didn't think that happened. Man: Wardens are fetishized by some. They do not want for comfort, although I doubt that soothes their corruption. Woman: Not that it's likely that the union produced a child. Man: Life despite the Blight. I hope the minstrel does not sing of it.
(I assume this is post-OG-soul-removal)
Woman: The boy has changed. Man: Without doubt. Woman: Is that good or bad? Man: It is change. It is both. Woman: You're not helping.
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Post by vertigomez on Jun 6, 2019 23:10:28 GMT
morr-igan, morr-igan, does whatever a morri-can....
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Post by thats1evildude on Jun 26, 2019 4:56:54 GMT
Ahem. Not for the easily-scandalized.
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Post by Iddy on Aug 12, 2019 18:01:49 GMT
Do you think Morrigan's pursuit of ancient powers is for her own gain, to a certain degree? Or is it only for the sake of saving something important, like she says?
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LadyofNemesis
N5
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Aug 12, 2019 19:40:33 GMT
Do you think Morrigan's pursuit of ancient powers is for her own gain, to a certain degree? Or is it only for the sake of saving something important, like she says? I think it's both, but I also think it's because she was taught to do so by Flemeth.
After all, Flemeth sends her with the Wardens, gives her the ritual that can allegedly safe a Warden's life and capture the essence/soul of Urthemiel. Whether or not she accomplishes this part of her (and/or Flemeth's) goal is up to the player.
I assume she also read certain things in her mothers grimoire, both the fake and the real one that made her realize there was something about the world that she needed to preserve whether she does so out of her own will or indirectly because Flemeth taught or told her to do so, I think that's up for debate.
seeing as her half-sister Yavana also received a purpose and task by Flemeth, I think it's safe to assume Flemeth gave one to each of her daughters, regardless of whether or not those daughters are still alive or not. Alistair: "You and Morrigan and Flemeth...all you do is manipulate and lie." Yavana: "That is our craft, but not our purpose. Mankind destroys without understanding, yet I preserve."
as to what Morrigan's ultimate goal is, I think it depends on the world state one might have.
After all, I personally believe that if she has Kieran (OG or not) she most of all wishes for a world where her child will be safe, same as any other mother.
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Post by Iddy on Nov 6, 2019 14:32:14 GMT
I was reading the companions dialogue in the wiki, and Wynne brings up an interesting point. Morrigan never attempted to join society, always going back to the Wilds after her short trips.
She chose the safety of isolation, which isn't so different from mages in the Circle.
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Noxluxe
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Post by Noxluxe on Nov 6, 2019 21:11:34 GMT
I was reading the companions dialogue in the wiki, and Wynne brings up an interesting point. Morrigan never attempted to join society, always going back to the Wilds after her short trips. She chose the safety of isolation, which isn't so different from mages in the Circle. Only she would call it the freedom of isolation, of course. You're totally right. One of the things that always endeared her to me is how underdeveloped she is in some respects, at least in Origins. She never learned to risk her pride to try to make connections like most people do as children, and she's never had peers to show her how a little warmth from someone who understands can mean the difference between weathering a storm and being broken by it. So she tries to do everything by herself without reaching out to anyone, and has a hard time handling that stress. It makes earning her friendship and trust and showing her the value in some of those things a delight, especially without any sexually suggestive or exploitative undertones - which she unfortunately knows all about thanks to Flemeth. Whom most of my characters feel pretty comfortable killing even just for that reason. As for whether or not she's trying to preserve magic for her own gain, that's hard to say. It doesn't seem like she even understands most of the powers she messes with enough to know if they'll benefit her or not, so she almost has to be doing it out of some general impulse. But when she does get her hands on it all she thinks about is how it can be used, preferably by herself, with no regard for the warnings or wisdom surrounding its source. I'd say she thinks the world is better for having ancient magics in it, but she also has an extremely utilitarian view of what that should look like, and isn't introspective enough to understand the existential threat that they pose in anyone's hands, and that she should fear them too. And she's always been unable to accept that she doesn't know what she's doing until it's too late. Always. So selfless or not, her efforts will probably be disastrous no matter what.
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Post by Catilina on Nov 6, 2019 22:03:13 GMT
I was reading the companions dialogue in the wiki, and Wynne brings up an interesting point. Morrigan never attempted to join society, always going back to the Wilds after her short trips. She chose the safety of isolation, which isn't so different from mages in the Circle. Yes, you said well: she chose. THIS is her freedom, this is the freedom.
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Post by Buckeldemon on Nov 7, 2019 1:39:55 GMT
I was reading the companions dialogue in the wiki, and Wynne brings up an interesting point. Morrigan never attempted to join society, always going back to the Wilds after her short trips. She chose the safety of isolation, which isn't so different from mages in the Circle. Nah. Circle mage generally don't choose. Members of the Isolationist Fraternity might do so, if given the chance. As for whether or not she's trying to preserve magic for her own gain, that's hard to say. It doesn't seem like she even understands most of the powers she messes with enough to know if they'll benefit her or not, so she almost has to be doing it out of some general impulse. But when she does get her hands on it all she thinks about is how it can be used, preferably by herself, with no regard for the warnings or wisdom surrounding its source. I suspect it mostly boils down to her dealing with knowlegde that nobody else has even an inkling of a clue of. Except for, well, "ancient" characters like Flemeth or perhaps Solas, for that matter. So she's mostly alone with that. *Insert Demona from "Gargoyles" City of Stone here* Any potential "warnings" from others affiliated with anything chantric (or Qun) are right to to fall on deaf ears with her, due to their condemnation of magic and anybody "afflicted" with it. I'm by no means a Morrigan expert, but her focus on survival would preclude her to listen to certain "voices" regardless. It is what I would call simple survival instinct. In accordance with that, of course she stays away from andrastian society. Templars and lynch mobs are surely bad company for 'lil Kieran. You're probably right about her lack of introspection. I did not grew up in a swamp with a creepy mother, but I can understand the notion of being self-focused if left alone for too long. The latter part appears to be your personal (rather fatalistic) viewpoint though. ... Also, on a general note, I honestly don't know why everything apparently has to be measured to the standard of human Andrastianism/the Chantry and its viewpoints and sub-groups (Templars, Circles, Seekers...). It appears as if people are forgetting (or intentionally ignoring?) the existance of any other cultural groups beyond that, and as of DAI, this does not only seem to affect the players and fans, but sometimes the Bioware staff as well.
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Noxluxe
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Post by Noxluxe on Nov 7, 2019 2:48:20 GMT
I suspect it mostly boils down to her dealing with knowlegde that nobody else has even an inkling of a clue of. Except for, well, "ancient" characters like Flemeth or perhaps Solas, for that matter. So she's mostly alone with that. *Insert Demona from "Gargoyles" City of Stone here* Any potential "warnings" from others affiliated with anything chantric (or Qun) are right to to fall on deaf ears with her, due to their condemnation of magic and anybody "afflicted" with it. I'm by no means a Morrigan expert, but her focus on survival would preclude her to listen to certain "voices" regardless. It is what I would call simple survival instinct. In accordance with that, of course she stays away from andrastian society. Templars and lynch mobs are surely bad company for 'lil Kieran. You're probably right about her lack of introspection. I did not grew up in a swamp with a creepy mother, but I can understand the notion of being self-focused if left alone for too long. The latter part appears to be your personal (rather fatalistic) viewpoint though. ... Also, on a general note, I honestly don't know why everything apparently has to be measured to the standard of human Andrastianism/the Chantry and its viewpoints and sub-groups (Templars, Circles, Seekers...). It appears as if people are forgetting (or intentionally ignoring?) the existance of any other cultural groups beyond that, and as of DAI, this does not only seem to affect the players and fans, but sometimes the Bioware staff as well. Dunno about that "staying away from andrestian society" thing. She did spend years mucking around in the religious capital of the South with Kieran in tow, not exactly keeping a low profile in the Orlesian court. And she sure paid no mind to Abelas' warnings about the Well, and I wouldn't call him either "chantric" or Qun. Looks to me like she's pretty definitively just too arrogant to imagine that other people understand the dangers and ramifications of something better than she does, regardless of culture or relative experience, even when she has little idea what she's actually dealing with. Even when she knows she has little idea what she's dealing with. Neither the Well nor the old god baby turned out to be anything like she imagined or intended. And pursuing the former the way she planned would literally have enslaved her to the creature she hates and fears most in the entire world, or actually did do that. Not to mention, for the umpteenth time, that the world has already been broken twice over by magical apocalypses caused specifically by the two non-Andrestian and non-Qun cultures fucking with magic they didn't fully understand just within the last few thousand years. That she should be scared enough of ancient magic to be more careful with it, or at least ask for support and second opinions before doing anything with it, isn't a fatalistic or Andrestean view, it's the plain truth. Maker's breath, she's two for two on wanting to ingest magical essences she barely understood into her own body with unpredictable results. And if neither backfires on her spectacularly over the course of your playthrough then it's entirely due to luck and outside intervention. Going barefoot to your local transformer station and starting to poke at every exposed wire and opening you can find with an iron screwdriver wouldn't be a thousandth as dangerous as what she's been up to, and at worst your actions would only affect the local power grid. She's been taking risks that could affect everyone in the world. I love Morrigan, I really do, but she's also definitely a magical disaster waiting to happen. I don't get why everything related to magical caution must be an expression of mage oppression to you guys. Wanting the big red button that fires the nukes to be locked safely away isn't automatically hateful and discriminatory towards people with fingers, is it?
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Post by Iddy on Nov 7, 2019 11:42:57 GMT
I was reading the companions dialogue in the wiki, and Wynne brings up an interesting point. Morrigan never attempted to join society, always going back to the Wilds after her short trips. She chose the safety of isolation, which isn't so different from mages in the Circle. Nah. Circle mage generally don't choose. Members of the Isolationist Fraternity might do so, if given the chance. I did not say they're the same in every way. I pointed out one similarity. And Morrigan not joining society partially because, as she put it, "the world of man is dangerous", reinforces the idea that mages can't really live among the common folk. It's a funny irony, though I don't really share the belief.
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Post by Buckeldemon on Nov 12, 2019 14:01:43 GMT
Dunno about that "staying away from andrestian society" thing. She did spend years mucking around in the religious capital of the South with Kieran in tow, not exactly keeping a low profile in the Orlesian court. To be honest, I've no idea how that has come to pass. Did I miss a comic or something? She does not really explain it in DAI, does she? I guess she's looking for something hidden in orlesian vaults or does she believe that Celene's protection is truly safer than being somewhere else? (Especially with Gaspard knocking at the doors...) Ok, yes. I forgot this other ancient guy. Next guess: She is really annoyed by (older?) people telling her what to do, in general. Thanks to Flemeth? I don't know. We only find out that Mythal and Flemeth (the personal connection for Morrigan here) are fused after someone takes the Well, if I recall right. If mentioning it for the umteenth time apparently annoys you so much, why do you do it then? You appear to solely focus on the aspect of containing magic, because "else apocalypse" in those cultures. Would you absolve them of all their other flaws just because of this single perceived advantage? Yes, I'm not fond of neither the Qun nor Andrastianism, and it is not just because they oppress "the mages". They oppress anybody to a certain extent and their dogma basically calls them to either convert or kill anybody else. I doubt it is less likely to happen than the magic apocalypse you insist is pretty much inevitable. The Qun is pretty well equipped to pull off "cultural apocalypse", and the Chantry has centuries of experience and a pretty good track record in terms of "cultural genocide". Does all that not matter if they apparently prevent a magic apocalypse? No single modern mage (or handful, if you wish) has access to the amount of power or resources to pull something like that off again. The Magisters Sidereal were idiotic zealots in my view, chasing some vague "divine" promise, like some other pretty dominant religions. We don't know what exactly Solas wanted to prevent by creating the veil. He claims that the Evanuris "would have destroyed the world", but that's it. I'll wait until I know more before making my "final" judgement. Besides, why should andrastians (or humans in general) complain about Solas destroying the ancient elven civilisation? Didn't that allow them humans to become dominating race in the first place? I'd say scared and cautions are to different things. Anyway, there's also the time factor set up by the game. The "Vessels" (Calpernia or Samson) are gone at this point in one way or the other if I remember right, but Corypheus is still on their heels and they need that McGuffin. Or at least they think so. As you said, she does not look as far. You claim to do, she does not. Perhaps she also does not care about the "everyones" except for Kieran and the Warden, if he's the father. Alistair or Loghain probably not so much. Believe it or not, I'm somewhat puzzled. Most other players who defended apparent "necessary necessities" in terms of magic as staunchly as you appeared to do seem to have a burning hatred for everything that just smells "irresponsible mage". The issue with "caution" is magnitude. I would not even argue in case of some "ancient things". My first First Lavellan left the Well alone, as despite her wearing friggin' Mythal Vallaslin (and refusing Solas' offer to have it removed) and being all about keeping elven stuff away from humans who would most surely abuse or destroy it, she was pretty deterred by Abelas' disclosure and the Sentinels' "we are betters" attitude in general. So she grudginly left it to the shemlen mage who went on an unsolicited "explanation rant" before, telling the stories that my Dalish knew since age five and has been telling since reaching adulthood herself. I usually don't even defend Blood Magic. Ordinary fireballs? Everyone capable of setting oil on fire can do that.
The flip side is that you seem to appear to be mostly concerned about mages as weapons, with the latter part being you primary concern, else "apocalypse is inevitable" (You do "sound" a lot like the Catalyst in this case. ). While I think that the part of mages being living beings is more important then preventing any possible safety risk at any cost. One side asks "What would you do if your family or friends are killed by an abomination?", the other side will go "What would you do if your children or friends are labeled as monsters and taken away, never to be seen again, because of something they might do?" I have some sort of mental automatism, which, in case of Utilitarism or "Greater Good" choices approaching, automatically asks "What would you do if you are to be sacrificed for (someone else's) "Greater Good?" On a totally unrelated note... many thanks for posting that song ages ago. Now I cannot get it out of my head. Nah. Circle mage generally don't choose. Members of the Isolationist Fraternity might do so, if given the chance. I did not say they're the same in every way. I pointed out one similarity. And Morrigan not joining society partially because, as she put it, "the world of man is dangerous", reinforces the idea that mages can't really live among the common folk. It's a funny irony, though I don't really share the belief. Is the intended meaning of "man" in this context is "human" (race) or people in general? I get lost with those two at times, especially in fantasy context. I just disagree with the possible notion of this being a "dead-ringer argument" for circles or whatever. People are awfully selective in this debate, myself included.
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