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Post by lundajfs on Dec 12, 2016 11:43:38 GMT
@pc vs Consoles I guess 7 of my top 10 western games would probably be PC exclusives, I think only KOTOR2, DAO and DA2 got to consoles. When it comes to eastern games most are Nintendo/Sony handheld exclusive. So basically if all consoles after PSX never existed it wouldn't change my gaming life a lot. Consoles are great for people that play FPS, sports, sandbox, etc but for people who play only RPGs and prefer turn-based and tactics, consoles are almost useless. That said I understand industry will favor consoles for now, but whatever, Tyranny and PoE, why bother with anything else?
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Post by Kantr on Dec 12, 2016 11:59:37 GMT
@pc vs Consoles I guess 7 of my top 10 western games would probably be PC exclusives, I think only KOTOR2, DAO and DA2 got to consoles. When it comes to eastern games most are Nintendo/Sony handheld exclusive. So basically if all consoles after PSX never existed it wouldn't change my gaming life a lot. Consoles are great for people that play FPS, sports, sandbox, etc but for people who play only RPGs and prefer turn-based and tactics, consoles are almost useless. That said I understand industry will favor consoles for now, but whatever, Tyranny and PoE, why bother with anything else? Well mobile seems to be where the big money is now.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2016 12:27:48 GMT
You sir, need to educate yourself of business (and law) instead of trouting the same old shit that people are sick and tired of hearing about how your PC is more powerful. Devs dont care about that shit when they are losing money to theft and illegal copyright infringments. I play on a console because I dont care about 60 fps or how shiny stuff looks. Games relax me. You should try it sometime. while this pc masterrace stuff is really getting annoying, there is an important thing to say: People like what they like and right now in the current industry, its a fact that pc gamers are screwed over and over again by bad porting, but in many cases its "just" the controls and in other cases it gets borderline unplayable. Fact is that companies make most money on consoles but that has nothing to do with piracy. in the last 2 years piracy became somewhat of a joke due to copy protections and other tricks (like ubisoft destroying their savegames when its a pirated game). piracy, especially with denuvo now is nothing more but a stigmata and an excuse to ride on the assumption train to say that pc gamers are all pirates. yes there are people who pirate, but there also are many people who pirate and little later buy the game, granted its still piracy but they still support their game developer. there was a study and if i find it i will provide the link later, that GAME piracy is taking a huge step back. piracy was a trend over 10 years ago but the mostly younger people grew up and can afford to buy games now was the TL:DR version of that article. In fact the only real problem with piracy is with movies and TV series, thus netflix and other streaming platform were born and they had an impact, since many pirates wanted to support what they loved to watch. now onto the pc/console thingy: Consoles dominate the market, thus PCs are only as good as the current consoles. if there was a graphics card that adds 1000% performance from the current best performung GPU, it would simply have no reason to exist. before the new console gen was released the PC hardware stagnated for years. my hardware was 5 years old when the next gen came out and i was still able to play almost all games on their highest settings with no fps impact whatsoever. So even if PC people (like myself) dont like it, we are dependand on console development. This pc masterrace thing is a joke and it was inteded to be a joke, but people went over the top. when a new console hardware is released, you as a pc player have to be happy because you finally dont get year old technology in games. yes PC hardware can be better but its no use to be better when the softwaretechnology is old. and the fps settings are purely a habit. personally i like watching movies on ~35 fps because its displayed like this in cinemas as well, so i think that watching a movie on a 100hz TV is ugly and unnatural. as a console player you are limited to 30 fps, but 30 fps is enough for many games (although i must say, dark souls 3 with 60 fps looked way more beautiful ) there are downsides to PC and there are downsides to console, yet these systems are intertwined..... so i dont get all the hate. Is it exclusive gaming? Is it forcing your will onto other because you think you are right? A person can make their own choices and telling people to be wrong without an argument that is not "my schlong is longer than yours" is just wrong and disrepsectful. but then again, the online gaming trend shows that people are just disrespectful in general. TL;DR: Piracy isnt what it once was, main problem is not with gaming but movies. PCs & Consoles are dependant so a masterrace discussion is wasting time. First of all I read the entire thing. If you could send me that study I'd be very interested in reading it. I feel like I should explain why I have the view that I do. I am not saying, nor have I ever said, that a PC is way more powerful than a console. I'd be somewhat foolish to take that stance. However, piracy HAS to be the main issue here. It's like this dity little secret nobody wants to talk about. Companies dont want to admit their losing money because of it and people dont want to admit they do it. I am not here to promote the use of consoles over PC since I use both to game. However, I see the pattern and its pretty undeniable. People complain when Ubisoft do what they do but what else are they supposed to do to protect their investment? How else are companies supposed to prevent theft? For all the rhetoric of how unhappy people are, I dont see anyone offering any alternatives. You mentioned piracy due to people not being able to afford video games and this to me is not an excuse. Thats like downloading a movie because you reason that the actors have enough money and dont need anymore. How anybody can sit there and tell me with a straight face that GTA V coming out months after last gen and current gen consoles have played it, Red Dead Redemption not coming out at all and Batman Arkham Knight getting a horrendous PC port has nothing to do with piracy is ludicrous. What other explanation can there be? When all you need to pirate a PC game is an internet connection and the right torrent website, the choice seems pretty clear. I am not saying console piracy doesnt happen Im saying it doesnt happen often enough to warrant drastic measures like a constant online connection. The FPS thing doesnt bother me. As someone coming from the ZX Spectrum days, gameplay is more important to me than graphics. But thats all you ever seem to hear from PC users. How many FPS can I get and how high my resolution is. Ugh, change the record. My original point was that developers will go where the money is. We both agree thats the console. I am sorry there seem to be a few butthurt PC gamers out there that claim not be pirates, but until there is a fool proof way of stopping it altogether or mitigating it to the point where its no longer hurting the companies profit margins, this will continue to be the case.
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Post by Gileadan on Dec 12, 2016 12:45:28 GMT
Actually, if you include MMOs and MOBAs, the PC platform is where the money is. Consoles may have more of a market share in AAA games, but not across all genres. And that market share was bought during the previous generation by initially selling the hardware below production costs.
I play on PC because: - many of my favorite strategy titles only exist on PC - no need to sign up for, let alone pay for an online service for multiplayer games - the freedom to play using keyboard and mouse, or a controller, or a joystick - I can still play an old favorite game from 1990, if I so desire - the freedom to choose hardware according to the budget I'm willing to spend instead of a one size fits all package - cheap Steam deals allow for a huge game library for a few euros - I don't have to pretend that I can't see the difference between 30 and 60 FPS
If piracy was such a huge problem, GOG/CDPR would have gone down the drain a while ago. Their only DRM is the trust that their customers aren't jerks.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2016 13:02:35 GMT
Actually, if you include MMOs and MOBAs, the PC platform is where the money is. Consoles may have more of a market share in AAA games, but not across all genres. And that market share was bought during the previous generation by initially selling the hardware below production costs. I play on PC because: - many of my favorite strategy titles only exist on PC - no need to sign up for, let alone pay for an online service for multiplayer games - the freedom to play using keyboard and mouse, or a controller, or a joystick - I can still play an old favorite game from 1990, if I so desire - the freedom to choose hardware according to the budget I'm willing to spend instead of a one size fits all package - cheap Steam deals allow for a huge game library for a few euros - I don't have to pretend that I can't see the difference between 30 and 60 FPS If piracy was such a huge problem, GOG/CDPR would have gone down the drain a while ago. Their only DRM is the trust that their customers aren't jerks. No need to sign up for multiplayer games? well then whats steam for? And since you're talking about MMO's I'm pretty sure you still have to pay for WoW. Strategy titles? Have you seen the comments about Civ 6? Gal Civ 3? Cheap Steam deals of broken, buggy games from the year dot that nobody cares about anymore? You cant tell the difference between 30/60 fps its a myth. Oh CDPR? You mean that company that has annoucned it has RUN OUT OF MONEY and cant fund Cyberpunk 2077? You mean that CDPR? and GOG are owned by CDPR by the way just to let you know. Funny that isnt it?
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Post by Gileadan on Dec 12, 2016 13:14:56 GMT
No need to sign up for multiplayer games? well then whats steam for? And since you're talking about MMO's I'm pretty sure you still have to pay for WoW. Strategy titles? Have you seen the comments about Civ 6? Gal Civ 3? Cheap Steam deals of broken, buggy games from the year dot that nobody cares about anymore? You cant tell the difference between 30/60 fps its a myth. Oh CDPR? You mean that company that has annoucned it has RUN OUT OF MONEY and cant fund Cyberpunk 2077? You mean that CDPR? and GOG are owned by CDPR by the way just to let you know. Funny that isnt it? You're the one who called PC players "butthurt"? Hahahah! Now I could put in the effort to explain that I never claimed that WoW is free since MMOs is a part of where the money is on PC, or that I know that GOG owns CDPR and all that... but naah. My favorite one is that 30/60 FPS is a myth. Rock on, kiddo.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2016 14:10:26 GMT
No need to sign up for multiplayer games? well then whats steam for? And since you're talking about MMO's I'm pretty sure you still have to pay for WoW. Strategy titles? Have you seen the comments about Civ 6? Gal Civ 3? Cheap Steam deals of broken, buggy games from the year dot that nobody cares about anymore? You cant tell the difference between 30/60 fps its a myth. Oh CDPR? You mean that company that has annoucned it has RUN OUT OF MONEY and cant fund Cyberpunk 2077? You mean that CDPR? and GOG are owned by CDPR by the way just to let you know. Funny that isnt it? You're the one who called PC players "butthurt"? Hahahah! Now I could put in the effort to explain that I never claimed that WoW is free since MMOs is a part of where the money is on PC, or that I know that GOG owns CDPR and all that... but naah. My favorite one is that 30/60 FPS is a myth. Rock on, kiddo. First of all I never said you did claim WoW to be free, you were the one that brought up MMO's not me. Secondly, CDPR OWNS GoG not the other way around. This is what I'm talking about you cant even be bothered reading a fucking sentence properly and yet I'm supposed to believe you can tell the difference between 30/60 fps by sight? Tell you what, I'll rock on and you get out of your mothers basement. get a job and stop snorting your ADHD meds. Sound good to you?
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Post by pdusen on Dec 12, 2016 14:17:18 GMT
I'm glad I have better things to worry about then what kind of machine other people play their games on.
As for Denuvo, I fully expect the experience to be the same as it was for DAI: It will be there, it will affect nothing, no one will care.
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Post by BadgerladDK on Dec 12, 2016 14:29:02 GMT
No need to sign up for multiplayer games? well then whats steam for? And since you're talking about MMO's I'm pretty sure you still have to pay for WoW. Strategy titles? Have you seen the comments about Civ 6? Gal Civ 3? Cheap Steam deals of broken, buggy games from the year dot that nobody cares about anymore? You cant tell the difference between 30/60 fps its a myth. Oh CDPR? You mean that company that has annoucned it has RUN OUT OF MONEY and cant fund Cyberpunk 2077? You mean that CDPR? and GOG are owned by CDPR by the way just to let you know. Funny that isnt it? You're the one who called PC players "butthurt"? Hahahah! Now I could put in the effort to explain that I never claimed that WoW is free since MMOs is a part of where the money is on PC, or that I know that GOG owns CDPR and all that... but naah. My favorite one is that 30/60 FPS is a myth. Rock on, kiddo. Dude, just walk away slowly. The only thing this troll is good for is learning how the ignore function works on this new forum.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2016 15:35:49 GMT
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Post by cryptic137 on Dec 12, 2016 15:47:59 GMT
while this pc masterrace stuff is really getting annoying, there is an important thing to say: People like what they like and right now in the current industry, its a fact that pc gamers are screwed over and over again by bad porting, but in many cases its "just" the controls and in other cases it gets borderline unplayable. Fact is that companies make most money on consoles but that has nothing to do with piracy. in the last 2 years piracy became somewhat of a joke due to copy protections and other tricks (like ubisoft destroying their savegames when its a pirated game). piracy, especially with denuvo now is nothing more but a stigmata and an excuse to ride on the assumption train to say that pc gamers are all pirates. yes there are people who pirate, but there also are many people who pirate and little later buy the game, granted its still piracy but they still support their game developer. there was a study and if i find it i will provide the link later, that GAME piracy is taking a huge step back. piracy was a trend over 10 years ago but the mostly younger people grew up and can afford to buy games now was the TL:DR version of that article. In fact the only real problem with piracy is with movies and TV series, thus netflix and other streaming platform were born and they had an impact, since many pirates wanted to support what they loved to watch. now onto the pc/console thingy: Consoles dominate the market, thus PCs are only as good as the current consoles. if there was a graphics card that adds 1000% performance from the current best performung GPU, it would simply have no reason to exist. before the new console gen was released the PC hardware stagnated for years. my hardware was 5 years old when the next gen came out and i was still able to play almost all games on their highest settings with no fps impact whatsoever. So even if PC people (like myself) dont like it, we are dependand on console development. This pc masterrace thing is a joke and it was inteded to be a joke, but people went over the top. when a new console hardware is released, you as a pc player have to be happy because you finally dont get year old technology in games. yes PC hardware can be better but its no use to be better when the softwaretechnology is old. and the fps settings are purely a habit. personally i like watching movies on ~35 fps because its displayed like this in cinemas as well, so i think that watching a movie on a 100hz TV is ugly and unnatural. as a console player you are limited to 30 fps, but 30 fps is enough for many games (although i must say, dark souls 3 with 60 fps looked way more beautiful ) there are downsides to PC and there are downsides to console, yet these systems are intertwined..... so i dont get all the hate. Is it exclusive gaming? Is it forcing your will onto other because you think you are right? A person can make their own choices and telling people to be wrong without an argument that is not "my schlong is longer than yours" is just wrong and disrepsectful. but then again, the online gaming trend shows that people are just disrespectful in general. TL;DR: Piracy isnt what it once was, main problem is not with gaming but movies. PCs & Consoles are dependant so a masterrace discussion is wasting time. First of all I read the entire thing. If you could send me that study I'd be very interested in reading it. I feel like I should explain why I have the view that I do. I am not saying, nor have I ever said, that a PC is way more powerful than a console. I'd be somewhat foolish to take that stance. However, piracy HAS to be the main issue here. It's like this dity little secret nobody wants to talk about. Companies dont want to admit their losing money because of it and people dont want to admit they do it. I am not here to promote the use of consoles over PC since I use both to game. However, I see the pattern and its pretty undeniable. People complain when Ubisoft do what they do but what else are they supposed to do to protect their investment? How else are companies supposed to prevent theft? For all the rhetoric of how unhappy people are, I dont see anyone offering any alternatives. You mentioned piracy due to people not being able to afford video games and this to me is not an excuse. Thats like downloading a movie because you reason that the actors have enough money and dont need anymore. How anybody can sit there and tell me with a straight face that GTA V coming out months after last gen and current gen consoles have played it, Red Dead Redemption not coming out at all and Batman Arkham Knight getting a horrendous PC port has nothing to do with piracy is ludicrous. What other explanation can there be? When all you need to pirate a PC game is an internet connection and the right torrent website, the choice seems pretty clear. I am not saying console piracy doesnt happen Im saying it doesnt happen often enough to warrant drastic measures like a constant online connection. The FPS thing doesnt bother me. As someone coming from the ZX Spectrum days, gameplay is more important to me than graphics. But thats all you ever seem to hear from PC users. How many FPS can I get and how high my resolution is. Ugh, change the record. My original point was that developers will go where the money is. We both agree thats the console. I am sorry there seem to be a few butthurt PC gamers out there that claim not be pirates, but until there is a fool proof way of stopping it altogether or mitigating it to the point where its no longer hurting the companies profit margins, this will continue to be the case.
im sorry i was unable to find that specific study, but i found a compilation with more studies.its intresting to read, the one ive read was now 2 years ago and it was in german, i doubt that i find it but this is a good link and definitely readworthy. Gta V, Read dead redemption had exclusive deals with microsoft and sony. the developers benefit from those deals as well as the console sales ( look at the last of us, probably the best deal sony ever made) also there is probably no game that doesnt make a profit due to piracy except if managament sux or its an indie title that is so unplayable that tis not worth buying. look at all gog.com games, they come protection free (this is advertised) and this is highly sought after because people dont want stuff against piracy in a legitimate owned game. for your information: the witcher 3 was a financial success and came without any kind of protection. developers dont fear pirates if their product has a good quality, this is a fact. games like no mans sky are probably pirated more than high quality products due to their bad quality. many pirates also dislike that there are no demos anymore. in the earlier gaming days demos were a sign of the confidence the developers put in their product because they knew they release a high quality product, most games that had no demos had worse sales because in the earlier gaming days this meant that something is probably wrong with that game. today demos take up too much dev time.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2016 18:30:38 GMT
im sorry i was unable to find that specific study, but i found a compilation with more studies.its intresting to read, the one ive read was now 2 years ago and it was in german, i doubt that i find it but this is a good link and definitely readworthy. Gta V, Read dead redemption had exclusive deals with microsoft and sony. the developers benefit from those deals as well as the console sales ( look at the last of us, probably the best deal sony ever made) also there is probably no game that doesnt make a profit due to piracy except if managament sux or its an indie title that is so unplayable that tis not worth buying. look at all gog.com games, they come protection free (this is advertised) and this is highly sought after because people dont want stuff against piracy in a legitimate owned game. for your information: the witcher 3 was a financial success and came without any kind of protection. developers dont fear pirates if their product has a good quality, this is a fact. games like no mans sky are probably pirated more than high quality products due to their bad quality. many pirates also dislike that there are no demos anymore. in the earlier gaming days demos were a sign of the confidence the developers put in their product because they knew they release a high quality product, most games that had no demos had worse sales because in the earlier gaming days this meant that something is probably wrong with that game. today demos take up too much dev time. I noticed the part where you failed to quote my 35% (The ones that owned up to it) of people pirate video games. Very interesting. However, all that study shows is WHY people pirate. This isn't the pont. The point is its theft. I dont care if people cant afford video games.Or that they do not agree with how the company portects its products. Stealing them does not legitimise it. Also not to mention, if you can afford a PC that powerful to play the game why can you not afford the game itself? Even if they did go for an exclusive deal the reason was to protect against piracy. Profit margins is revenue that is made AFTER you have covered your companies expenditures. You cannot make a profit because of a loss. Unless you're talking about insurance which in the case of TW3 wouldn't pay out because they didnt protect their investment with any security. (Like leaving your door unlocked/open and then claiming insurance because you got robbed) CDPR have just claimed to have run out of money on their project Cyberpunk 2077. How exactly that is a financial success is beyond me. The games on GOG arent exactly AAA games. They are the games nobody cares about or are going to pirate anyways. Neverwinter Nights Baldurs Gate etc. Some of them well over 10 years old. Its funny how only CDPR have run out of money to fund their next project. Not Bethesda or Ubisoft or Bioware. Just the ones that left the front door wide open. GoG is going the way of Direct2Drive in a few years. Awww poor them. No demos so I'll just go out and steal it. Yeah again, not a legitimate reason. Also the reason there is no demos anymore is more and more games are open world now. Look at the Mafia 2 demo when people found out how to turn the timer off. Thus giving them a game for free. Lets not forget the bad old days when publishers accidentally left the entire game on a disc. The fact is demos these days are just too much of a risk. PC users have shown themselves up time and again they simply cannot be trusted. Thats why all you are left with on Steam are indie games and Free-to-play games. You also seem to be suffering from a terrible affliction that because you dont use a console you are somehow above the law.
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Post by Kantr on Dec 12, 2016 18:35:30 GMT
Yes steam has no AAA games. It doesnt have Dishonored 2 or Doom. Or watchdogs 2. You can do a lot more with a computer than a console. Thus why people have computers but can't afford a months wages on a game. Or publishers forget that $50 usd isnt the same as 50 euros or pounds. To SofaJockey or any mod the topic has outlived its usefulness and is now just a discussion on piracy. Lock?
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Post by Natashina on Dec 12, 2016 19:21:37 GMT
<puts on mod hat>
It's officially become too hostile in here folks. I'm locking this up for now.
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Post by SofaJockey on Dec 12, 2016 19:28:41 GMT
To SofaJockey or any mod the topic has outlived its usefulness and is now just a discussion on piracy. Lock? Natashina to the rescue ... As Denuvo and piracy are fairly general topics, it may also be wise to move this to the Lobby if / when this reopens...
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