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Post by Antibaar on Dec 12, 2016 19:07:09 GMT
Is kinda boring for me.We seen 2 new alien races from Andromeda,and they have backwards legs,why not forward?or 4 legs?I want to see a more diversity in alien bodys...I'm tired to see only humanoid shape aliens with backaward legs.
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Post by SofaJockey on Dec 12, 2016 19:31:33 GMT
Sounds like a development/budgetary reason to me.
Frostbite didn't even handle animals before Dragon Age Inquisition. Anything more exotic will take a ton of development for only a marginal interest value. (?)
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Post by Vortex13 on Dec 12, 2016 19:43:28 GMT
Digitigrade legs and three or four fingered hands are the template for any alien species in any science fiction setting it seems: It would be cool to see some more aliens that break from this mold that is apparently enforced across the board.
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Post by Element Zero on Dec 12, 2016 19:49:19 GMT
If we're going to have a thread devoted to this, we want to clean up the OP, a bit. Their legs aren't backwards. Details in the spoiler block. Their legs feature the same anatomy as ours, with slightly different structure. This stance is called digitigrade, which will be addressed momentarily. I'm going to use a quarian for this exercise, but you can use any creature you wish, real or imagined, as long as it has a digitigrade posture.
Look at a quarian in profile. Let's start at the ground. Look at their toes. BioWare isn't entirely consistent in illustrating this well, but they are standing and walking on their toes. (I know it doesn't particularly look that way, but trust me. BioWare took artistic liberties.) This is what digitigrade means, that a species stands and walks on its toes. Humans, by contrast, are plantigrade, using the entire foot for standing and walking. The entire leg is built differently, as a result.
Follow the quarian's bones upward from the toes. Where your ankle and lower legs would be, that's their (very elongated) foot bones. That first major joint we arrive at is the ankle. Next come the (very short) lower leg bones, followed by another major joint, the knee. Notice it is not backward. From here, the upper leg is pretty similar to a human.
These digitigrade species do not have backward legs, knees or whatever. Their bones are proportioned differently, and their joints are positioned differently, but nothing is backward. I went through all of this, not to be pedantic, but because I suspect that many truly have no idea what is going on with these legs. I hope this was interesting, rather than obnoxious. That out of the way, BioWare does this because it allows them to immediately say, "This is an alien," with minimal effort. The rig is still humanoid. It still animates in familiar, humanoid ways. It's a matter of resources. I, too, would like to see more varied aliens; but crafting those stranger aliens is very taxing.
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Post by Saboru on Dec 12, 2016 20:02:04 GMT
Well there's a couple that go for the insectoid approach instead - keepers and rachni, so it's not like they never do it - although with rachni form often substituted with something humanoid when actual conversation is required. And you've got reapers and hanar who even manage a few conversations in non humanoid form. Noticably nothing with major conversational screen time though.
I'd guess it's mostly animation issues, not just technial but difficulties in how to convey body language based information. Doable if it's the odd case and a handful of conversations, but if it was a character with significant dialogue or a lot of races the workload involved would be prohibitive.
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Post by ProbeAway on Dec 12, 2016 21:36:00 GMT
Well there's a couple that go for the insectoid approach instead - keepers and rachni, so it's not like they never do it - although with rachni form often substituted with something humanoid when actual conversation is required. And you've got reapers and hanar who even manage a few conversations in non humanoid form. Noticably nothing with major conversational screen time though. I'd guess it's mostly animation issues, not just technial but difficulties in how to convey body language based information. Doable if it's the odd case and a handful of conversations, but if it was a character with significant dialogue or a lot of races the workload involved would be prohibitive. Conversations are hard enough. It's another thing altogether to design a non-humanoid alien as a squadmate or playable character for combat. Every species you could play as in ME3 MP was humanoid, even if proportioned differently. The only non-humanoid, non-reaper species we interacted with in ME (hanar, elcor, rachni, keepers) also happened to be the only ones you couldn't play with or as.
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Post by helios969 on Dec 12, 2016 21:45:55 GMT
Wouldn't mind seeing some alien aliens but I understand they have to be judicious on what they prioritize. Frankly I'm having a harder time understanding the lack of alien-looking plants...which is an important part of selling the illusion and far less difficult to incorporate. If all we end up seeing are a bunch of barren worlds, it'll be little better than ME1's hue swap worlds.
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Post by Arcian on Dec 12, 2016 21:59:18 GMT
Is kinda boring for me.We seen 2 new alien races from Andromeda,and they have backwards legs,why not forward?or 4 legs?I want to see a more diversity in alien bodys...I'm tired to see only humanoid shape aliens with backaward legs. Stop. Just stop. There is no such thing as backwards legs. You're thinking of digitigrade legs, such as those of birds, dogs and a lot of Mass Effect aliens. We humans have plantigrade legs.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2016 21:59:57 GMT
Wouldn't mind seeing some alien aliens but I understand they have to be judicious on what they prioritize. Frankly I'm having a harder time understanding the lack of alien-looking plants...which is an important part of selling the illusion and far less difficult to incorporate. If all we end up seeing are a bunch of barren worlds, it'll be little better than ME1's hue swap worlds. Most likely the garden planets will look a lot like Earth, with green plants and trees. I'm hoping there's at least one however where they look nothing like Earth-based life. Plants Under Alien Suns
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Post by BansheeOwnage on Dec 12, 2016 22:09:15 GMT
If we're going to have a thread devoted to this, we want to clean up the OP, a bit. Their legs aren't backwards. Details in the spoiler block. Their legs feature the same anatomy as ours, with slightly different structure. This stance is called digitigrade, which will be addressed momentarily. I'm going to use a quarian for this exercise, but you can use any creature you wish, real or imagined, as long as it has a digitigrade posture.
Look at a quarian in profile. Let's start at the ground. Look at their toes. BioWare isn't entirely consistent in illustrating this well, but they are standing and walking on their toes. (I know it doesn't particularly look that way, but trust me. BioWare took artistic liberties.) This is what digitigrade means, that a species stands and walks on its toes. Humans, by contrast, are plantigrade, using the entire foot for standing and walking. The entire leg is built differently, as a result.
Follow the quarian's bones upward from the toes. Where your ankle and lower legs would be, that's their (very elongated) foot bones. That first major joint we arrive at is the ankle. Next come the (very short) lower leg bones, followed by another major joint, the knee. Notice it is not backward. From here, the upper leg is pretty similar to a human.
These digitigrade species do not have backward legs, knees or whatever. Their bones are proportioned differently, and their joints are positioned differently, but nothing is backward. I went through all of this, not to be pedantic, but because I suspect that many truly have no idea what is going on with these legs. I hope this was interesting, rather than obnoxious. That out of the way, BioWare does this because it allows them to immediately say, "This is an alien," with minimal effort. The rig is still humanoid. It still animates in familiar, humanoid ways. It's a matter of resources. I, too, would like to see more varied aliens; but crafting those stranger aliens is very taxing. Thank you for explaining this, so I didn't have to Though I did forget exactly what it was called. Wouldn't mind seeing some alien aliens but I understand they have to be judicious on what they prioritize. Frankly I'm having a harder time understanding the lack of alien-looking plants...which is an important part of selling the illusion and far less difficult to incorporate. If all we end up seeing are a bunch of barren worlds, it'll be little better than ME1's hue swap worlds. Most likely the garden planets will look a lot like Earth, with green plants and trees. I'm hoping there's at least one however where they look nothing like Earth-based life. Plants Under Alien SunsInteresting. It would be awesome if we could see some alien-looking plants in shape, colour, and function (we do know some plants in Remnant Vaults are very alien - no photosynthesis - and that we can scan loads of things), and even more awesome if Bioware got the colours to properly correspond to sun colour and atmosphere composition (which is something they describe often for planets you can read about/explore). That would certainly be easier than making more alien animals. Love talking about these kinds of things, and love it when media actually pay attention to them
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Post by Element Zero on Dec 12, 2016 22:57:26 GMT
Thank you for explaining this, so I didn't have to Though I did forget exactly what it was called. Most likely the garden planets will look a lot like Earth, with green plants and trees. I'm hoping there's at least one however where they look nothing like Earth-based life. Plants Under Alien SunsInteresting. It would be awesome if we could see some alien-looking plants in shape, colour, and function (we do know some plants in Remnant Vaults are very alien - no photosynthesis - and that we can scan loads of things), and even more awesome if Bioware got the colours to properly correspond to sun colour and atmosphere composition (which is something they describe often for planets you can read about/explore). That would certainly be easier than making more alien animals. Love talking about these kinds of things, and love it when media actually pay attention to them Agreed. This is something I could see BioWare doing, too. Researching something like " Plants Under Alien Suns", and basing their color palettes upon the findings, is well within reason and fits the ME style. I can't wait to learn about those strange "plants" from the vault. I'm sure they've worked plenty of alien lifeforms into this game. They can't spoil them all four or more months before release. This is the stuff best left to discovery.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
XBL Gamertag: No.
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Dec 12, 2016 23:25:44 GMT
Thank you for explaining this, so I didn't have to Though I did forget exactly what it was called. Interesting. It would be awesome if we could see some alien-looking plants in shape, colour, and function (we do know some plants in Remnant Vaults are very alien - no photosynthesis - and that we can scan loads of things), and even more awesome if Bioware got the colours to properly correspond to sun colour and atmosphere composition (which is something they describe often for planets you can read about/explore). That would certainly be easier than making more alien animals. Love talking about these kinds of things, and love it when media actually pay attention to them Agreed. This is something I could see BioWare doing, too. Researching something like " Plants Under Alien Suns", and basing their color palettes upon the findings, is well within reason and fits the ME style. I can't wait to learn about those strange "plants" from the vault. I'm sure they've worked plenty of alien lifeforms into this game. They can't spoil them all four or more months before release. This is the stuff best left to discovery. I concur though to make each world idealistically different upon research could take an exorbitant amount of time unless only going to visit 3 planets and the others all the same cityscape.
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Post by Arcian on Dec 12, 2016 23:33:35 GMT
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Post by Vortex13 on Dec 12, 2016 23:34:16 GMT
I wish we could see more 'alien' designs to the various species we encounter, though I will say that good 'alien' writing would be much preferred over just a weird looking dog. That being said, I though that Firaxis did a rather commendable job with their alien designs: Well, minus the "snake tits" on the Vipers though.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2016 0:47:53 GMT
If we're going to have a thread devoted to this, we want to clean up the OP, a bit. Their legs aren't backwards. Details in the spoiler block. Their legs feature the same anatomy as ours, with slightly different structure. This stance is called digitigrade, which will be addressed momentarily. I'm going to use a quarian for this exercise, but you can use any creature you wish, real or imagined, as long as it has a digitigrade posture.
Look at a quarian in profile. Let's start at the ground. Look at their toes. BioWare isn't entirely consistent in illustrating this well, but they are standing and walking on their toes. (I know it doesn't particularly look that way, but trust me. BioWare took artistic liberties.) This is what digitigrade means, that a species stands and walks on its toes. Humans, by contrast, are plantigrade, using the entire foot for standing and walking. The entire leg is built differently, as a result.
Follow the quarian's bones upward from the toes. Where your ankle and lower legs would be, that's their (very elongated) foot bones. That first major joint we arrive at is the ankle. Next come the (very short) lower leg bones, followed by another major joint, the knee. Notice it is not backward. From here, the upper leg is pretty similar to a human.
These digitigrade species do not have backward legs, knees or whatever. Their bones are proportioned differently, and their joints are positioned differently, but nothing is backward. I went through all of this, not to be pedantic, but because I suspect that many truly have no idea what is going on with these legs. I hope this was interesting, rather than obnoxious. That out of the way, BioWare does this because it allows them to immediately say, "This is an alien," with minimal effort. The rig is still humanoid. It still animates in familiar, humanoid ways. It's a matter of resources. I, too, would like to see more varied aliens; but crafting those stranger aliens is very taxing. So based on how bent that which we perceive as a shin is, their legs are sort of more like this krogan, but the flat part is much longer toes than this krogan-
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Post by Element Zero on Dec 13, 2016 0:53:22 GMT
If we're going to have a thread devoted to this, we want to clean up the OP, a bit. Their legs aren't backwards. Details in the spoiler block. Their legs feature the same anatomy as ours, with slightly different structure. This stance is called digitigrade, which will be addressed momentarily. I'm going to use a quarian for this exercise, but you can use any creature you wish, real or imagined, as long as it has a digitigrade posture.
Look at a quarian in profile. Let's start at the ground. Look at their toes. BioWare isn't entirely consistent in illustrating this well, but they are standing and walking on their toes. (I know it doesn't particularly look that way, but trust me. BioWare took artistic liberties.) This is what digitigrade means, that a species stands and walks on its toes. Humans, by contrast, are plantigrade, using the entire foot for standing and walking. The entire leg is built differently, as a result.
Follow the quarian's bones upward from the toes. Where your ankle and lower legs would be, that's their (very elongated) foot bones. That first major joint we arrive at is the ankle. Next come the (very short) lower leg bones, followed by another major joint, the knee. Notice it is not backward. From here, the upper leg is pretty similar to a human.
These digitigrade species do not have backward legs, knees or whatever. Their bones are proportioned differently, and their joints are positioned differently, but nothing is backward. I went through all of this, not to be pedantic, but because I suspect that many truly have no idea what is going on with these legs. I hope this was interesting, rather than obnoxious. That out of the way, BioWare does this because it allows them to immediately say, "This is an alien," with minimal effort. The rig is still humanoid. It still animates in familiar, humanoid ways. It's a matter of resources. I, too, would like to see more varied aliens; but crafting those stranger aliens is very taxing. So based on how bent that which we perceive as a shin is, their legs are sort of like this, but the flat part is much longer toes than this krogan- I'm not sure I understand exactly what you're trying to say, but BioWare takes some artistic liberties with "digitigrade" in the series. The species seem to occupy a weird, likely impossible middle-ground between digitigrade and plantigrade. I tried to address that in my post, without making things needlessly confusing.
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Bacus
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Post by Bacus on Dec 13, 2016 0:56:33 GMT
Some of our designs Done with the amazing self-advertising. There is a thing: it is not only tough (gamedev-wise) to create a really alien race in video games, but also, tough for that race to be understood and comprehended by human players. This debate is not new, but humanoid-aliens are not going to go away any time soon. Would I like to see real aliens? FUCK YEAH would the bulk of consumers like that? apparently nope.
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Dec 13, 2016 0:57:58 GMT
Large, low center of gravity creatures are more likely to possess a "z" shaped leg as it provides a greater support and better jumping power.
Also, if nature follows the path of least resistance chances are that some anatomies might be more common than others in worlds with similar conditions
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2016 1:05:57 GMT
So based on how bent that which we perceive as a shin is, their legs are sort of like this, but the flat part is much longer toes than this krogan- I'm not sure I understand exactly what you're trying to say, but BioWare takes some artistic liberties with "digitigrade" in the series. The species seem to occupy a weird, likely impossible middle-ground between digitigrade and plantigrade. I tried to address that in my post, without making things needlessly confusing. Basically, like the krogan image above (actually krogan tibia/tarus is almost same size), quarians have long a tarsus, short tibia, and long femur. But unlike krogan and all other digitigrades in ME, exceptionally long phalanges (as you said above). I was just using pictures for reference to clarify it to myself. Turians are what most would think of as digitigrade and avian-like, which in this case is a form of digitigrade with short phalanges, short tarsus, very long tibia, and long femur.
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Post by Element Zero on Dec 13, 2016 1:37:31 GMT
I'm not sure I understand exactly what you're trying to say, but BioWare takes some artistic liberties with "digitigrade" in the series. The species seem to occupy a weird, likely impossible middle-ground between digitigrade and plantigrade. I tried to address that in my post, without making things needlessly confusing. Basically, like the krogan image above (actually krogan tibia/tarus is almost same size), quarians have long a tarsus, short tibia, and long femur. But unlike krogan and all other digitigrades in ME, exceptionally long phalanges (as you said above). I was just using pictures for reference to clarify it to myself. Turians are what most would think of as digitigrade and avian-like, which in this case is a form of digitigrade with short phalanges, short tarsus, very long tibia, and long femur. Yeah, I almost used turians as my example because of this. I only went with quarians because their legs are less heavily armored and more easily examined in most images.
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Post by armass81 on Dec 13, 2016 1:38:11 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2016 1:43:58 GMT
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Post by armass81 on Dec 13, 2016 1:48:34 GMT
I have another question.
Why cant we have any furred aliens? Like wookiees? Or even ewoks (uh oh, i see hatred coming my way).
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Post by Evamitchelle on Dec 13, 2016 5:39:31 GMT
I have another question. Why cant we have any furred aliens? Like wookiees? Or even ewoks (uh oh, i see hatred coming my way). Bioware already struggles with human hair, they're not ready for furry aliens.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
XBL Gamertag: No.
PSN: No
Posts: 5,220 Likes: 5,079
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At sunrise there is the sunset.
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To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
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Bottom
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
No.
No
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Dec 13, 2016 8:03:36 GMT
Well that method of travel sure is faster than normal travel. I have another question. Why cant we have any furred aliens? Like wookiees? Or even ewoks (uh oh, i see hatred coming my way). Bioware already struggles with human hair, they're not ready for furry aliens. So that explains why EVERY ALIEN RACE in Mass Effect is BALD!.....Except Humans.
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