inherit
1480
0
1,080
gothpunkboy89
2,311
September 2016
gothpunkboy89
|
Post by gothpunkboy89 on Oct 9, 2016 15:05:14 GMT
So you mean there was some sort of apex of development before humanity moved from what is clearly an ape form into what would be closer to our current form? We had a common ancestor, something we branched off of. Hence, where there was "one" (this is simplistic) now there's "two". Honestly, have yet to see you prove that Synthesis is the obvious next stage. It's what could happen. It doesn't have to. And how it turns out through changes we decide on can vary considerably. But, go ahead, keep trying to "win" at all costs. It just shows you aren't willing to concede that there's more than one available option which is something not in line with the game. I have proven it. How ever you brush it off as invalid because it clashes with your opinion. Organic bodies have limitations. Limitations that evolution can not over come by it self. If it could then we would all be a combination of Turian toughness, Krogan regeneration, Asari life span and Salarian memory. Technology how ever can push organic bodies beyond those limits. Though genetic modification and/or the integration of technology with our body. In fact the Asari are the ultimate representation of a race being extensively genetically modified resulting in a species with some objectively better set ups then other races. Every advancement in technology has been to improve organic life. Within the game universe it shows them creating technology like the Gray Box specifically to help people with age induced memory failure. It is still in it's infancy and flawed but if it ever became 100% reliable to use and 100% safe as well as cost effective it would become as common as smart phones are now today. It is a very small back ground plot but the US President had a stroke or heart attack or something. And his mind was uploaded to a VI program while his body was in a vegetative state. And that VI operated as the President for several months while other people tired to sue that it wasn't the same guy anymore. Project Overloard shows it is entirely possible to blend an organic human brain and a VI system together. Refine and miniaturized that technology to allow a VI program that can process information at speeds several hundred times faster then a human mind. Integrate that with a grey box and suddenly the abilities of an organic body mentally will increase 10 fold. That increase in intelligence can cause a jump in technology allowing the mastering of technology like nanomachines. Nano machines that are programed to keep he body healthy and assist it in repairing any damage done. And that isn't even counting the genetic manipulation. Children born with mental disabilities are the result of errors in their genes. The ability to early know what genes cause what problems and correct them while still in the womb would eliminate special needs people in the galaxy. You want proof it is the next step? Look around you now how many people do you know that own smart phones? Smart phones are not a necessity. At best all a portable phone should need to do is make calls and maybe text messages. Yet every year they get smaller, faster and more popular. At this point the only people without a smart phone are the hipsters who use the lack of owning one as some sort of status symbol. Even though 99% of what smart phones do isn't necessary in the slightest. But they improve our lives because they can keep track of data for you. Allow you to access information away from home and other bonuses that aren't 100% necessary. It is a trend that shows up equally in the ME universe for all races. You can close your eyes and plug your ears and claim other wise but it is at this point a fact.
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 21,292 Likes: 50,652
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
50,652
Iakus
21,292
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by Iakus on Oct 9, 2016 16:03:00 GMT
We had a common ancestor, something we branched off of. Hence, where there was "one" (this is simplistic) now there's "two". Honestly, have yet to see you prove that Synthesis is the obvious next stage. It's what could happen. It doesn't have to. And how it turns out through changes we decide on can vary considerably. But, go ahead, keep trying to "win" at all costs. It just shows you aren't willing to concede that there's more than one available option which is something not in line with the game. I have proven it. How ever you brush it off as invalid because it clashes with your opinion. Organic bodies have limitations. Limitations that evolution can not over come by it self. If it could then we would all be a combination of Turian toughness, Krogan regeneration, Asari life span and Salarian memory. Technology how ever can push organic bodies beyond those limits. Though genetic modification and/or the integration of technology with our body. In fact the Asari are the ultimate representation of a race being extensively genetically modified resulting in a species with some objectively better set ups then other races. Every advancement in technology has been to improve organic life. Within the game universe it shows them creating technology like the Gray Box specifically to help people with age induced memory failure. It is still in it's infancy and flawed but if it ever became 100% reliable to use and 100% safe as well as cost effective it would become as common as smart phones are now today. It is a very small back ground plot but the US President had a stroke or heart attack or something. And his mind was uploaded to a VI program while his body was in a vegetative state. And that VI operated as the President for several months while other people tired to sue that it wasn't the same guy anymore. Project Overloard shows it is entirely possible to blend an organic human brain and a VI system together. Refine and miniaturized that technology to allow a VI program that can process information at speeds several hundred times faster then a human mind. Integrate that with a grey box and suddenly the abilities of an organic body mentally will increase 10 fold. That increase in intelligence can cause a jump in technology allowing the mastering of technology like nanomachines. Nano machines that are programed to keep he body healthy and assist it in repairing any damage done. And that isn't even counting the genetic manipulation. Children born with mental disabilities are the result of errors in their genes. The ability to early know what genes cause what problems and correct them while still in the womb would eliminate special needs people in the galaxy. You want proof it is the next step? Look around you now how many people do you know that own smart phones? Smart phones are not a necessity. At best all a portable phone should need to do is make calls and maybe text messages. Yet every year they get smaller, faster and more popular. At this point the only people without a smart phone are the hipsters who use the lack of owning one as some sort of status symbol. Even though 99% of what smart phones do isn't necessary in the slightest. But they improve our lives because they can keep track of data for you. Allow you to access information away from home and other bonuses that aren't 100% necessary. It is a trend that shows up equally in the ME universe for all races. You can close your eyes and plug your ears and claim other wise but it is at this point a fact. And even technology has limits. Nothing is 100% reliable. Overlord showed us blending an organic mind with a VI is a recipe for madness. "It all seemed harmless" The problem here is, you are forcing everyone to get a smart phone whether they need one or even want one or not. And you know, smart phones occasionally explode...
|
|
Sondergaard
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR
Posts: 572 Likes: 975
inherit
1505
0
Sept 27, 2024 16:57:55 GMT
975
Sondergaard
572
Sept 8, 2016 21:17:59 GMT
September 2016
sondergaard
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR
|
Post by Sondergaard on Oct 9, 2016 16:24:35 GMT
Synthesis on some level almost certainly is the next step for humanity. However, ME3 forces an unexplained version of it on every sentient being* in the galaxy. A version created by our arch enemies. There's nothing inevitable or preordained about that.
*non-sentient as well maybe? Who knows, it's never explained.
Edit: I see I've repeated what Iakus said above. Great minds etc.
|
|
inherit
1480
0
1,080
gothpunkboy89
2,311
September 2016
gothpunkboy89
|
Post by gothpunkboy89 on Oct 9, 2016 22:25:26 GMT
I have proven it. How ever you brush it off as invalid because it clashes with your opinion. Organic bodies have limitations. Limitations that evolution can not over come by it self. If it could then we would all be a combination of Turian toughness, Krogan regeneration, Asari life span and Salarian memory. Technology how ever can push organic bodies beyond those limits. Though genetic modification and/or the integration of technology with our body. In fact the Asari are the ultimate representation of a race being extensively genetically modified resulting in a species with some objectively better set ups then other races. Every advancement in technology has been to improve organic life. Within the game universe it shows them creating technology like the Gray Box specifically to help people with age induced memory failure. It is still in it's infancy and flawed but if it ever became 100% reliable to use and 100% safe as well as cost effective it would become as common as smart phones are now today. It is a very small back ground plot but the US President had a stroke or heart attack or something. And his mind was uploaded to a VI program while his body was in a vegetative state. And that VI operated as the President for several months while other people tired to sue that it wasn't the same guy anymore. Project Overloard shows it is entirely possible to blend an organic human brain and a VI system together. Refine and miniaturized that technology to allow a VI program that can process information at speeds several hundred times faster then a human mind. Integrate that with a grey box and suddenly the abilities of an organic body mentally will increase 10 fold. That increase in intelligence can cause a jump in technology allowing the mastering of technology like nanomachines. Nano machines that are programed to keep he body healthy and assist it in repairing any damage done. And that isn't even counting the genetic manipulation. Children born with mental disabilities are the result of errors in their genes. The ability to early know what genes cause what problems and correct them while still in the womb would eliminate special needs people in the galaxy. You want proof it is the next step? Look around you now how many people do you know that own smart phones? Smart phones are not a necessity. At best all a portable phone should need to do is make calls and maybe text messages. Yet every year they get smaller, faster and more popular. At this point the only people without a smart phone are the hipsters who use the lack of owning one as some sort of status symbol. Even though 99% of what smart phones do isn't necessary in the slightest. But they improve our lives because they can keep track of data for you. Allow you to access information away from home and other bonuses that aren't 100% necessary. It is a trend that shows up equally in the ME universe for all races. You can close your eyes and plug your ears and claim other wise but it is at this point a fact. And even technology has limits. Nothing is 100% reliable. Overlord showed us blending an organic mind with a VI is a recipe for madness. "It all seemed harmless" The problem here is, you are forcing everyone to get a smart phone whether they need one or even want one or not. And you know, smart phones occasionally explode... And the limits of technology are far beyond what organic life is capable of. Remember this is a game were you are capable of crossing millions of light years in seconds. Defying even the standard FTL capabilities of ships. Overlord was also the very first attempt at it. It also involved taking an autistic person and forcing them into the machine against their will then linking them directly into the Geth network. If there was a check list of everything you do not do. Dr. Gavin checked it off. How ever done under correct set up with in a lab and the person having very limited access. Done by volunteers and able to tell them to stop and they stop the experiment it shows a ton of potential. So if your argument is based on a mad scientist ignoring every ounce of the scientific method and protocol for experimenting on living people. And in turn caused a big problem is some how proof everything about it is wrong. You really should look up a lot of history. Particularly medical history. Because there has been plenty of doctors and scientists that have done actions that have reserved themselves a special place in hell. But have ultimately benefited the growth of medical knowledge. www.livescience.com/13002-7-absolutely-evil-medical-experiments-tuskegee-syphilis.htmlAnd yet you would be getting a smart phone anyways. After centuries of conflict and the loss of trillions of lives. So yea force everyone to get a smart phone. You might annoy the hipsters but it it prevents WW3 as well as making everyone smarter, faster, stronger. Worth the trade off. BTW phones have problems because they use Lithium Batteries. Which while currently some of the best battery technology we have still suck royally. As well as to make them affordable they go with cheaper materials. Don't worry though Catalyst isn't using cheap sweat shop made set up.
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 21,292 Likes: 50,652
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
50,652
Iakus
21,292
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by Iakus on Oct 10, 2016 1:51:03 GMT
So if your argument is based on a mad scientist ignoring every ounce of the scientific method and protocol for experimenting on living people. And in turn caused a big problem is some how proof everything about it is wrong. You really should look up a lot of history. Particularly medical history. Because there has been plenty of doctors and scientists that have done actions that have reserved themselves a special place in hell. But have ultimately benefited the growth of medical knowledge. www.livescience.com/13002-7-absolutely-evil-medical-experiments-tuskegee-syphilis.html You are not helping the case of Synthesis with that
|
|
inherit
1480
0
1,080
gothpunkboy89
2,311
September 2016
gothpunkboy89
|
Post by gothpunkboy89 on Oct 10, 2016 2:38:36 GMT
So if your argument is based on a mad scientist ignoring every ounce of the scientific method and protocol for experimenting on living people. And in turn caused a big problem is some how proof everything about it is wrong. You really should look up a lot of history. Particularly medical history. Because there has been plenty of doctors and scientists that have done actions that have reserved themselves a special place in hell. But have ultimately benefited the growth of medical knowledge. www.livescience.com/13002-7-absolutely-evil-medical-experiments-tuskegee-syphilis.html You are not helping the case of Synthesis with that Not really but then again you attempted to justify a literal mad scientist is the reason why an entire branch of technology is clearly pure insanity so.....I guess the bar you set for yourself isn't to high in this area.
|
|
inherit
∯ Alien Wizard
729
0
Nov 27, 2024 12:22:50 GMT
10,587
Ieldra
4,907
August 2016
ieldra
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
25190
6519
|
Post by Ieldra on Oct 10, 2016 10:16:44 GMT
I'd like to comment on the debate about the "next step in human evolution":
As a transhumanist, I am fully in favor of taking control of our evolution and use technology to overcome fundamental limitations of the human condition. However, how we get there, that's in no way obvious, predetermined or inevitable.
Personally, I see the route "merging of man and machine" as intrinsically problematic. It will happen to some degree, but whether it will ever be more than a niche solution for people with defective bodies, or very selective implanting, that will depend on several problems being solved:
(1) The problem of autonomy With technology, we're always at the whim of those who make it. What I take into my body should be mine to control, as absolutely as I have control over my conscious natural functions, and where non-conscious functions are affected, I want a near-absolute guarantee of non-interference by third parties without my permission. I'm not seeing a solution to this problem any time soon. In fact, technology appears to get more integrated, which will make people understandably suspicious.
(2) The problem of reliability Whatever you can say of our natural functions and their limitations, they're far superior to anything we've ever built so far in reliability, by an order of magnitude at least. Whatever I take into my body I expect to be either *more* reliable than my natural functions, or superior in function and at least *as* reliable - or else why would I ever do it? However, current technology trends do not emphasize reliability, so I'm not seeing a solution to that problem any time soon, either.
(3) The problem of superior external solutions Why the heck would I ever want an implanted smartphone? Sure, I can never forget it and it's hard to steal, but even if it is extremely reliable, a new version comes out every few years. Do I want another complicated operation every few years just to keep my body up to date? I can imagine a cultural climate where exactly that happens, given some kind of standardized interface technology, but it emphasizes the dangers of problem (1) and (2), and there will be no solution to this one without a solution to those.
(4) The problem of alienation People are afraid of taking technology into their bodies not just because of practical problems like those mentioned above, but because they experience technology as something intrinsically alien to their bodies. I suspect this can be overcome with experience - I've seen people with artificial legs walking perfectly naturally just this morning in a science report on TV - but it will probably mean that most people don't want any implants as long as there is no pressing necessity or external solutions work perfectly fine. We have an intrinsic regard for healthy natural bodies, and especially *replacements* by technology (as opposed to additions) will meet fundamental rejection. If the technology gets there, we may have something akin to Deus Ex' nanotech augmentations eventually, but a scenario like in Deus Ex: Human Revolution or Deus Ex: Mankind Divided, I'm rather confident to say it will never happen. It is a path that people will do their utmost to bypass.
In addition, all this will not affect our biochemistry, nor our offspring, and as long as that remains so, it will not be an evolution (except maybe in a cultural sense) since the species remains the same.
So where does that leave us? The fundamental statement that humans create technology to improve their own existence is obviously true. Beyond that, it remains unclear to which degree that technology will become part of our bodies. I suspect we'll eventually have autorepair and anti-aging nanotech in our bodies, and some health problems will be resolved by genetic engineering, but as far as actual functional enhancements go, that depends totally on the cultural climate and technological capabilities. The most potent drivers of evolution at the moment are stress factors created by our social environment, and I suspect the need for seamless cooperation will increase even further as our technological endeavours become more complex. Technology may enhance our capabilities there, and personally I would prefer a technological to a genetic solution since the former is elective. I consider the most important cultural divide that between autonomists and collectivists, and I think the permanent conflict between those aspects of our nature will (continue to) affect our evolution as a species fundamentally, regardless of whether it remains a matter of random chance or becomes controlled by human artifice.
|
|
inherit
1480
0
1,080
gothpunkboy89
2,311
September 2016
gothpunkboy89
|
Post by gothpunkboy89 on Oct 10, 2016 15:09:42 GMT
I'd like to comment on the debate about the "next step in human evolution": As a transhumanist, I am fully in favor of taking control of our evolution and use technology to overcome fundamental limitations of the human condition. However, how we get there, that's in no way obvious, predetermined or inevitable. Personally, I see the route "merging of man and machine" as intrinsically problematic. It will happen to some degree, but whether it will ever be more than a niche solution for people with defective bodies, or very selective implanting, that will depend on several problems being solved: (1) The problem of autonomy With technology, we're always at the whim of those who make it. What I take into my body should be mine to control, as absolutely as I have control over my conscious natural functions, and where non-conscious functions are affected, I want a near-absolute guarantee of non-interference by third parties without my permission. I'm not seeing a solution to this problem any time soon. In fact, technology appears to get more integrated, which will make people understandably suspicious. (2) The problem of reliability Whatever you can say of our natural functions and their limitations, they're far superior to anything we've ever built so far in reliability, by an order of magnitude at least. Whatever I take into my body I expect to be either *more* reliable than my natural functions, or superior in function and at least *as* reliable - or else why would I ever do it? However, current technology trends do not emphasize reliability, so I'm not seeing a solution to that problem any time soon, either. (3) The problem of superior external solutions Why the heck would I ever want an implanted smartphone? Sure, I can never forget it and it's hard to steal, but even if it is extremely reliable, a new version comes out every few years. Do I want another complicated operation every few years just to keep my body up to date? I can imagine a cultural climate where exactly that happens, given some kind of standardized interface technology, but it emphasizes the dangers of problem (1) and (2), and there will be no solution to this one without a solution to those. (4) The problem of alienation People are afraid of taking technology into their bodies not just because of practical problems like those mentioned above, but because they experience technology as something intrinsically alien to their bodies. I suspect this can be overcome with experience - I've seen people with artificial legs walking perfectly naturally just this morning in a science report on TV - but it will probably mean that most people don't want any implants as long as there is no pressing necessity or external solutions work perfectly fine. We have an intrinsic regard for healthy natural bodies, and especially *replacements* by technology (as opposed to additions) will meet fundamental rejection. If the technology gets there, we may have something akin to Deus Ex' nanotech augmentations eventually, but a scenario like in Deus Ex: Human Revolution or Deus Ex: Mankind Divided, I'm rather confident to say it will never happen. It is a path that people will do their utmost to bypass. In addition, all this will not affect our biochemistry, nor our offspring, and as long as that remains so, it will not be an evolution (except maybe in a cultural sense) since the species remains the same. So where does that leave us? The fundamental statement that humans create technology to improve their own existence is obviously true. Beyond that, it remains unclear to which degree that technology will become part of our bodies. I suspect we'll eventually have autorepair and anti-aging nanotech in our bodies, and some health problems will be resolved by genetic engineering, but as far as actual functional enhancements go, that depends totally on the cultural climate and technological capabilities. The most potent drivers of evolution at the moment are stress factors created by our social environment, and I suspect the need for seamless cooperation will increase even further as our technological endeavours become more complex. Technology may enhance our capabilities there, and personally I would prefer a technological to a genetic solution since the former is elective. I consider the most important cultural divide that between autonomists and collectivists, and I think the permanent conflict between those aspects of our nature will (continue to) affect our evolution as a species fundamentally, regardless of whether it remains a matter of random chance or becomes controlled by human artifice. Only used smart phone as modern equivalent of something that is gaining popularity. Because abstract thought isn't very strong with a few people in the forums.
|
|
inherit
∯ Alien Wizard
729
0
Nov 27, 2024 12:22:50 GMT
10,587
Ieldra
4,907
August 2016
ieldra
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
25190
6519
|
Post by Ieldra on Oct 10, 2016 15:22:50 GMT
Only used smart phone as modern equivalent of something that is gaining popularity. Because abstract thought isn't very strong with a few people in the forums. I know. The problem I mentioned applies to other things, though. External solutions - "gadgets", if you want - have the advantage of versatility in application and easy maintenance, and you can temporarily get rid of them if they become inconvenient.
|
|
inherit
1480
0
1,080
gothpunkboy89
2,311
September 2016
gothpunkboy89
|
Post by gothpunkboy89 on Oct 10, 2016 17:13:39 GMT
Only used smart phone as modern equivalent of something that is gaining popularity. Because abstract thought isn't very strong with a few people in the forums. I know. The problem I mentioned applies to other things, though. External solutions - "gadgets", if you want - have the advantage of versatility in application and easy maintenance, and you can temporarily get rid of them if they become inconvenient. And yet the Reapers have shown to be capable of creating self repairing machines. Not only the Reapers them selves but the Relays as well are shown to contain self repairing capabilities.
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 21,292 Likes: 50,652
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
50,652
Iakus
21,292
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by Iakus on Oct 10, 2016 20:48:46 GMT
So where does that leave us? The fundamental statement that humans create technology to improve their own existence is obviously true. Beyond that, it remains unclear to which degree that technology will become part of our bodies. I suspect we'll eventually have autorepair and anti-aging nanotech in our bodies, and some health problems will be resolved by genetic engineering, but as far as actual functional enhancements go, that depends totally on the cultural climate and technological capabilities. The most potent drivers of evolution at the moment are stress factors created by our social environment, and I suspect the need for seamless cooperation will increase even further as our technological endeavours become more complex. Technology may enhance our capabilities there, and personally I would prefer a technological to a genetic solution since the former is elective. I consider the most important cultural divide that between autonomists and collectivists, and I think the permanent conflict between those aspects of our nature will (continue to) affect our evolution as a species fundamentally, regardless of whether it remains a matter of random chance or becomes controlled by human artifice. I am of the belief that transhumanism will to some degree be accepted by people. That degree being that which increases the overall quality of life and health of people: cybernetic limbs for amputees, gene therapies, various life-extending treatments and such. But at some point there is a line beyond which the definition of "human" becomes fuzzy. People, not all people, but a lot, I think, will resist crossing that line and becoming "posthuman". What Synthesis does is force everyone to this state. There is no choice given. And not just to all humans, but to all asari, turians, hanar, even races we've never heard of. And every animal, every blade of grass, every microbe in the galaxy. Irrevocably changed at the genetic level. Which leads to the other problem that this choice was not only made for all current life, but all future life as well. This is more than just giving everyone a smartphone. This is forcing unproven, untested technology that affects EVERYONE, EVERYWHERE, gambling with everyone's lives, that this isn't actually an exploding Samsung you're putting in everyone's brains.
|
|
inherit
738
0
4,633
Link"Guess"ski
3,882
August 2016
linkenski
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Linkenski
asblinkenski
Linkenski
|
Post by Link"Guess"ski on Oct 29, 2016 19:23:15 GMT
I'm red/green colorblind so I picked Synthesis thinking it wasn't destroy.
|
|
DoomsdayDevice
N3
Oh, me so scrubby! Me pugging long time! --- 78 URs to go
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate
Prime Posts: 2357
Posts: 351 Likes: 1,027
inherit
794
0
1,027
DoomsdayDevice
Oh, me so scrubby! Me pugging long time! --- 78 URs to go
351
August 2016
hipsterjack
Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate
2357
|
Post by DoomsdayDevice on Oct 29, 2016 20:17:17 GMT
This might sound ridiculous, but they're not supposed to be the same thing.
|
|
jtav
N2
Posts: 58 Likes: 94
inherit
762
0
Nov 23, 2020 20:45:33 GMT
94
jtav
58
August 2016
jtav
|
Post by jtav on Oct 30, 2016 1:21:28 GMT
If I were picking as myself, Destroy. We're way past the point where that level of friendly fire is proportional and the other two involve likely intrinsic evils.
But as someone who is outside the story and driving it, Synthesis or Refuse. I'm very near a pacifist, so victory by explosion doesn't feel like a good ending or what should earn life. I like Shep's last act being a creative one that makes a friend of enemies. And I find Refusal beautiful and Shepard's decision to die rather than violate their conscience beautiful.
|
|
jackievakarian
N2
Shut your quiznak.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
PSN: NuriTheMarxist
Posts: 185 Likes: 242
inherit
1904
0
Feb 20, 2017 16:08:39 GMT
242
jackievakarian
Shut your quiznak.
185
Oct 31, 2016 20:01:48 GMT
October 2016
jackievakarian
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
NuriTheMarxist
|
Post by jackievakarian on Oct 31, 2016 20:50:39 GMT
Mass Effect 3 was actually my very first Mass Effect game, and I chose Synthesis. After playing part of Mass Effect 1 and beating Mass Effect 2 and 3 several times each, I still choose Synthesis. I like the idea of Transhumanism. Ending the cyclical struggle of extinction by the Reapers, and building a better future.
|
|
inherit
1913
0
80
sgtsteel91
72
November 2016
sgtsteel91
|
Post by sgtsteel91 on Nov 1, 2016 15:21:40 GMT
I didn't like anything about the Control and Synthesis endings and I can handwave the negative of the Destroy ending by remembering Shepard was brain-dead and they were rebuild exactly as they were, so given enough time and resources Edi and the Geth can be brought back exactly as they were.
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 21,292 Likes: 50,652
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
50,652
Iakus
21,292
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by Iakus on Nov 1, 2016 18:34:06 GMT
If I were picking as myself, Destroy. We're way past the point where that level of friendly fire is proportional and the other two involve likely intrinsic evils. But as someone who is outside the story and driving it, Synthesis or Refuse. I'm very near a pacifist, so victory by explosion doesn't feel like a good ending or what should earn life. I like Shep's last act being a creative one that makes a friend of enemies. And I find Refusal beautiful and Shepard's decision to die rather than violate their conscience beautiful. There's nothing really wrong with a victory by explosion, as long as it's done to preserve life. "I do not love the sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, I love only that which they defend."-Faramir However, Destroy's friendly fire of, well, everyone not-meatbag makes it a non-starter for me. That is what keeps it from being acceptable, it is defeating the Reapers by becoming Reapers ourselves. And I cannot love Refuse. I find it a passive-aggressive "Screw you!" from Bioware.
|
|
dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
Posts: 9,942 Likes: 17,687
inherit
Biotic Booty
1031
0
Nov 16, 2024 14:01:33 GMT
17,687
dmc1001
9,942
August 2016
dmc1001
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
ferroboy
77
|
Post by dmc1001 on Nov 2, 2016 6:30:02 GMT
I didn't like anything about the Control and Synthesis endings and I can handwave the negative of the Destroy ending by remembering Shepard was brain-dead and they were rebuild exactly as they were, so given enough time and resources Edi and the Geth can be brought back exactly as they were. I don't handwave it so much as assume that Shepard could think it a possible outcome.
|
|
dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
Posts: 9,942 Likes: 17,687
inherit
Biotic Booty
1031
0
Nov 16, 2024 14:01:33 GMT
17,687
dmc1001
9,942
August 2016
dmc1001
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
ferroboy
77
|
Post by dmc1001 on Nov 2, 2016 6:33:43 GMT
If I were picking as myself, Destroy. We're way past the point where that level of friendly fire is proportional and the other two involve likely intrinsic evils. But as someone who is outside the story and driving it, Synthesis or Refuse. I'm very near a pacifist, so victory by explosion doesn't feel like a good ending or what should earn life. I like Shep's last act being a creative one that makes a friend of enemies. And I find Refusal beautiful and Shepard's decision to die rather than violate their conscience beautiful. There's nothing really wrong with a victory by explosion, as long as it's done to preserve life. "I do not love the sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, I love only that which they defend."-Faramir However, Destroy's friendly fire of, well, everyone not-meatbag makes it a non-starter for me. That is what keeps it from being acceptable, it is defeating the Reapers by becoming Reapers ourselves. And I cannot love Refuse. I find it a passive-aggressive "Screw you!" from Bioware. I'm a "Destroy always" kind of guy. It's just my Shepard being a follower of Hackett and, especially, Anderson that helps make this so. I agree on Refuse. I think my Shepard would risk Synthesis or Control over Refuse. Definitely better than allowing every advanced species - and my freakin' LI - to go extinct for some lame principle.
|
|
DoomsdayDevice
N3
Oh, me so scrubby! Me pugging long time! --- 78 URs to go
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate
Prime Posts: 2357
Posts: 351 Likes: 1,027
inherit
794
0
1,027
DoomsdayDevice
Oh, me so scrubby! Me pugging long time! --- 78 URs to go
351
August 2016
hipsterjack
Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate
2357
|
Post by DoomsdayDevice on Nov 4, 2016 13:43:43 GMT
I find Refusal beautiful and Shepard's decision to die rather than violate their conscience beautiful. This is precisely the reason I have a big problem with the refuse ending. It's letting billions of people die needlessly out of idealism. It's incredibly unethical to not make the hard call at that point. You're letting the entire galaxy die over principles. Nothing beautiful about it. It's incredibly egoistic.
|
|
inherit
1480
0
1,080
gothpunkboy89
2,311
September 2016
gothpunkboy89
|
Post by gothpunkboy89 on Nov 6, 2016 15:23:14 GMT
I find Refusal beautiful and Shepard's decision to die rather than violate their conscience beautiful. This is precisely the reason I have a big problem with the refuse ending. It's letting billions of people die needlessly out of idealism. It's incredibly unethical to not make the hard call at that point. You're letting the entire galaxy die over principles. Nothing beautiful about it. It's incredibly egoistic. It does show what seems to be a big issue with how people think in the real world.
|
|
jackievakarian
N2
Shut your quiznak.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
PSN: NuriTheMarxist
Posts: 185 Likes: 242
inherit
1904
0
Feb 20, 2017 16:08:39 GMT
242
jackievakarian
Shut your quiznak.
185
Oct 31, 2016 20:01:48 GMT
October 2016
jackievakarian
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
NuriTheMarxist
|
Post by jackievakarian on Nov 6, 2016 18:41:44 GMT
I'd like to comment on the debate about the "next step in human evolution": As a transhumanist, I am fully in favor of taking control of our evolution and use technology to overcome fundamental limitations of the human condition. However, how we get there, that's in no way obvious, predetermined or inevitable. Personally, I see the route "merging of man and machine" as intrinsically problematic. It will happen to some degree, but whether it will ever be more than a niche solution for people with defective bodies, or very selective implanting, that will depend on several problems being solved: (1) The problem of autonomy With technology, we're always at the whim of those who make it. What I take into my body should be mine to control, as absolutely as I have control over my conscious natural functions, and where non-conscious functions are affected, I want a near-absolute guarantee of non-interference by third parties without my permission. I'm not seeing a solution to this problem any time soon. In fact, technology appears to get more integrated, which will make people understandably suspicious. (2) The problem of reliability Whatever you can say of our natural functions and their limitations, they're far superior to anything we've ever built so far in reliability, by an order of magnitude at least. Whatever I take into my body I expect to be either *more* reliable than my natural functions, or superior in function and at least *as* reliable - or else why would I ever do it? However, current technology trends do not emphasize reliability, so I'm not seeing a solution to that problem any time soon, either. (3) The problem of superior external solutions Why the heck would I ever want an implanted smartphone? Sure, I can never forget it and it's hard to steal, but even if it is extremely reliable, a new version comes out every few years. Do I want another complicated operation every few years just to keep my body up to date? I can imagine a cultural climate where exactly that happens, given some kind of standardized interface technology, but it emphasizes the dangers of problem (1) and (2), and there will be no solution to this one without a solution to those. (4) The problem of alienation People are afraid of taking technology into their bodies not just because of practical problems like those mentioned above, but because they experience technology as something intrinsically alien to their bodies. I suspect this can be overcome with experience - I've seen people with artificial legs walking perfectly naturally just this morning in a science report on TV - but it will probably mean that most people don't want any implants as long as there is no pressing necessity or external solutions work perfectly fine. We have an intrinsic regard for healthy natural bodies, and especially *replacements* by technology (as opposed to additions) will meet fundamental rejection. If the technology gets there, we may have something akin to Deus Ex' nanotech augmentations eventually, but a scenario like in Deus Ex: Human Revolution or Deus Ex: Mankind Divided, I'm rather confident to say it will never happen. It is a path that people will do their utmost to bypass. In addition, all this will not affect our biochemistry, nor our offspring, and as long as that remains so, it will not be an evolution (except maybe in a cultural sense) since the species remains the same. So where does that leave us? The fundamental statement that humans create technology to improve their own existence is obviously true. Beyond that, it remains unclear to which degree that technology will become part of our bodies. I suspect we'll eventually have autorepair and anti-aging nanotech in our bodies, and some health problems will be resolved by genetic engineering, but as far as actual functional enhancements go, that depends totally on the cultural climate and technological capabilities. The most potent drivers of evolution at the moment are stress factors created by our social environment, and I suspect the need for seamless cooperation will increase even further as our technological endeavours become more complex. Technology may enhance our capabilities there, and personally I would prefer a technological to a genetic solution since the former is elective. I consider the most important cultural divide that between autonomists and collectivists, and I think the permanent conflict between those aspects of our nature will (continue to) affect our evolution as a species fundamentally, regardless of whether it remains a matter of random chance or becomes controlled by human artifice. I was very much agreeing with what you said until you shit-talked Deus Ex saying it isn't possible. When people used to think ANY kind of technological body modification was impossible. *throws popcorn* BOOOOOO
|
|
inherit
∯ Alien Wizard
729
0
Nov 27, 2024 12:22:50 GMT
10,587
Ieldra
4,907
August 2016
ieldra
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
25190
6519
|
Post by Ieldra on Nov 6, 2016 21:13:27 GMT
I was very much agreeing with what you said until you shit-talked Deus Ex saying it isn't possible. When people used to think ANY kind of technological body modification was impossible. *throws popcorn* BOOOOOO Well, I didn't actually say it was impossible. It said the scenario - which is one where many, many people get mechanical and visibly nonhuman replacements for perfectly healthy natural parts with no pressing necessity - most likely won't happen. Mechanical replacements are already possible and more will become possible. What they won't be is as widely employed as in the DXHR/MD scenario. Widely employed augmentations will only become once they're almost invisible, and feel as natural as your natural parts they replace, both to yourself and those you interact with. If you don't believe me just think about sex. Of course, the morphological freedom promoted by transhumanism may eventually result in much weirder stuff as people might start experimenting with non-human forms, but at that point we'll be way past the DXHR/MD scenario in terms of technology.
|
|
dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
Posts: 9,942 Likes: 17,687
inherit
Biotic Booty
1031
0
Nov 16, 2024 14:01:33 GMT
17,687
dmc1001
9,942
August 2016
dmc1001
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
ferroboy
77
|
Post by dmc1001 on Nov 6, 2016 22:49:12 GMT
I find Refusal beautiful and Shepard's decision to die rather than violate their conscience beautiful. This is precisely the reason I have a big problem with the refuse ending. It's letting billions of people die needlessly out of idealism. It's incredibly unethical to not make the hard call at that point. You're letting the entire galaxy die over principles. Nothing beautiful about it. It's incredibly egoistic. I agree. A principle is only worthwhile if it achieves something. Shepard achieves nothing by refusing. All Council races die and there's no guarantee that whoever is around in 50,000 years will actually succeed with the Crucible. In fact, the Reapers might make sure it doesn't happen by destroying the Crucible and all plans for it.
|
|
inherit
♨ Retired
24
0
Nov 27, 2024 11:56:39 GMT
26,310
themikefest
15,636
August 2016
themikefest
21,655
15,426
|
Post by themikefest on Nov 7, 2016 0:38:24 GMT
Refuse just makes Shepard Commander dumba**. I could see Shepard turning into a pathetic little turd running to the catalyst while crying like a little baby wanting a second chance to choose an ending after realizing she/he just doomed everyone.
|
|