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Post by Sartoz on Dec 22, 2016 13:23:54 GMT
*´¨) ¸.•´¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨) (¸.•´ (¸.•` ¤ Mass Effect Andromeda
Mike Gamble gave the Official PlayStation Magazine in the UK an interview for their Dec 2016 issue. An article by Chris Mawson on Dec 20, states that the Bio studio is still tweaking the sizes of the planetary maps. the studio wanted to “create experiences that have the right density and amount of content”, stating that a planet that may currently take 50 minutes to drive across could change to either 30 or 60 minutes in several months’ time. So, does this mean that the studio learned their lesson(s) from what to do and what not do do from DA:I? I wonder if Mike meant you need to use the Nomad in Turbo mode and do nothing else... like scanning. EDIT: Article is here, btw: powerupgaming.co.uk/2016/12/20/mass-effect-andromeda-devs-trying-to-find-a-balance-with-planet-size-discuss-romances/
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Kantr
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Playing a lot of Divinity Original Sin 2
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Post by Kantr on Dec 22, 2016 13:52:41 GMT
Big maps are good. They just need stuff in them. Ala The Witcher 3
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2016 16:21:16 GMT
Big maps are good. They just need stuff in them. Ala The Witcher 3 Or the option to FIDO content you're not interest in, to use a military acronym. (F*** it, drive on) One of the things TW3 did better than DA:I with the open world side content, was not putting it in your path. You could keep Roach trotting towards a quest objective and ignore the bandits or monster's nests in between. DA:I tried to force you to do similar content, by having narrow paths and placing the rifts or mooks guarding a camp site, in the way of the main quest objective. '
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We destroy them or they destroy us.
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Post by bshep on Dec 22, 2016 17:06:49 GMT
Big maps are good. They just need stuff in them. Ala The Witcher 3 Or the option to FIDO content you're not interest in, to use a military acronym. (F*** it, drive on) One of the things TW3 did better than DA:I with the open world side content, was not putting it in your path. You could keep Roach trotting towards a quest objective and ignore the bandits or monster's nests in between. DA:I tried to force you to do similar content, by having narrow paths and placing the rifts or mooks guarding a camp site, in the way of the main quest objective. ' To be fair the Witcher 3 areas were a lot bigger than DAI. But from what they are telling, MEA should have really big maps too.
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Little Pumpkin
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Beerfish on Dec 22, 2016 17:31:49 GMT
Step one move around a map. Step two feel that it does not have enough time content. Step 3 put the shard in an idiotic location in which you have to spend 10 minutes just hoping to get or have to move around the entire map to the other side to get it.
Profit???
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Xerxes52
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Post by Xerxes52 on Dec 22, 2016 17:47:11 GMT
Big maps are good. They just need stuff in them. Ala The Witcher 3 Agreed here. I am only in Velen so far (recently got the Complete Edition during Black Friday), but I'm liking the side content quite a bit.
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Post by RoboticWater on Dec 22, 2016 18:02:37 GMT
Big maps are good. They just need stuff in them. Ala The Witcher 3 I think The Witcher 3 is actually a poor example of open world content density. Outside of villages, there's practically nothing to do, and what little there is could been better designed. Even the largest of ambient bandit encounters were usually just collections of dudes randomly sitting around some outpost. Nothing particularly compelling. In fact, I found that the sheer number of smuggler's caches and treasure activities discredited the realism of the world more than it enhanced gameplay. I think The Witcher 3 would be far better off as a collection of multi-village hubs rather than a continuous open world. There's really no way to fill big maps with a lot of good content yet. It just can't happen. TW3 did as well as it did only because Polish man hours are cheaper, and even then, it's still basically a hub game with superfluous tracts of land connecting everything together. Assuming the Nomad is fun to drive, I would hope BioWare would focus on providing medium-sized sandboxes with points of interest spread equally around. Then, the gameplay can be trimmed to the good stuff: driving, mission content, and a few better-designed ambient encounters, and the less savory content, e.g. collectathons, (which we're bound to get regardless) could at least be more compact. The alternative is just larger areas padded with more "activities" and bar-filling.
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Post by KaiserShep on Dec 22, 2016 20:30:23 GMT
Maybe I'm alone here, but if I'm traversing alien terrain here and there, I don't think the worlds will be terribly convincing if there's a lot of stuff to do scattered about. These are worlds with maybe a small colony planted on them. Personally, I think ME1 had the right idea, marred in part by its jagged polygon terrain, copy/paste outposts and tricky vehicle comtrols, but also by how it clashed with the central narrative.
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We destroy them or they destroy us.
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Post by bshep on Dec 22, 2016 20:35:43 GMT
Big maps are good. They just need stuff in them. Ala The Witcher 3 I think The Witcher 3 is actually a poor example of open world content density. Outside of villages, there's practically nothing to do, and what little there is could been better designed. Even the largest of ambient bandit encounters were usually just collections of dudes randomly sitting around some outpost. Nothing particularly compelling. In fact, I found that the sheer number of smuggler's caches and treasure activities discredited the realism of the world more than it enhanced gameplay. I think The Witcher 3 would be far better off as a collection of multi-village hubs rather than a continuous open world. There's really no way to fill big maps with a lot of good content yet. It just can't happen. TW3 did as well as it did only because Polish man hours are cheaper, and even then, it's still basically a hub game with superfluous tracts of land connecting everything together. Assuming the Nomad is fun to drive, I would hope BioWare would focus on providing medium-sized sandboxes with points of interest spread equally around. Then, the gameplay can be trimmed to the good stuff: driving, mission content, and a few better-designed ambient encounters, and the less savory content, e.g. collectathons, (which we're bound to get regardless) could at least be more compact. The alternative is just larger areas padded with more "activities" and bar-filling. Are you kidding? There is a lot of things happening outside the main settlements in Witcher 3. If Bioware follow their example it would be really good.
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Sylvius the Mad
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Dec 22, 2016 21:00:20 GMT
I would prefer bigger areas, including areas with no other meaningful content.
Having the area limited to spaces with content makes the world feel less real. It just isn't plausible that the world consists only of places I would want to go.
As such, I'm hoping for areas that exist and are visitable, even though there's no particular reason to go there. Also, it would be nice to have to travel through some areas to get from place to place - to give a sense of scale.
I like DAI a lot, but the zones were too content dense. The Hinterlands, for example, should have been about the size of the actual level geometry (rather than the area BioWare expected us to explore), but with no extra content. I felt the same way about DAO - I wanted the Deep Roads to include more just walking in between encouters.
ME2 actually did some of this. The atmosphere in those levels was excellent. ME3 failed horribly, though, by having very small levels with linear paths through them.
A big open DAI level that worked well was the Hissing Wastes. Or Emprise du Lion.
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Kantr
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Playing a lot of Divinity Original Sin 2
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Post by Kantr on Dec 22, 2016 21:09:56 GMT
What they shouldn't do is go back to how they made the maps in Mass Effect 1. A butt load of driving over random mountains with sometimes a point of interest to get to a generic base for a shootout.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 22, 2016 21:41:56 GMT
Honestly, for good or ill, this sounds pretty much exactly what DA Is maps were. Some maps were HUGE (Hinterlands, Western Approach, Exalted Plains) while some were much much much smaller (Fallow Mire, Storm Coast) the key is going to be this whole idea of 'density of content' they keep on talking about and putting the right amount of quests on each planet make them interesting, but more importantly, make them varried.
Annnnnndd if they can make each planet connect to each other in terms of plot, and the main plot in some way, annnnnd then sometimes connect to each other, they could be onto something.
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Post by Sartoz on Dec 22, 2016 22:11:38 GMT
*´¨) ¸.•´¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨) (¸.•´ (¸.•` ¤ Mass Effect Andromeda
Well, I'm unsure what Mike G meant with the word "experiences"... as in frustrating, fun or boring"experiences". Either way, the studio needs to make the exploration optional but interesting. As far as content and densities is concerned, I can't think of anything suitable for a sci-fi exploration game besides mission objectives. Unless, every planet we visit has Remnant tech somewhere. And, please, no Elf Root type resources. If the Nomad does find mining resources, send down a mining robot from the Tempest to do the job.
Also, the Dec video alludes to us finding large predators when exploring. Well, unless I put on my Hunting Hat, why bother? The Pathfinder's purpose is to find a new home for humanity and not go on a hunting jaunt.
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Agent 46
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Origin: ALoneGretchin
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Post by Gileadan on Dec 22, 2016 22:11:45 GMT
3 months to go and they are not sure about all the map sizes and content density yet? Wow. They better have a system in place that helps them generate that content quickly then, and it's hopefully not "click click place collectibles".
Anything else not content complete yet? Animations? PC controls?
Well, their twitter messages seem confident enough, so I'll just go with my old mantra: As long as the staff doesn't panic, things are likely okay. (that's what I tell myself when I sit in a plane in really bad weather)
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Post by The Elder King on Dec 22, 2016 22:17:54 GMT
3 months to go and they are not sure about all the map sizes and content density yet? Wow. They better have a system in place that helps them generate that content quickly then, and it's hopefully not "click click place collectibles". Anything else not content complete yet? Animations? PC controls? Well, their twitter messages seem confident enough, so I'll just go with my old mantra: As long as the staff doesn't panic, things are likely okay. (that's what I tell myself when I sit in a plane in really bad weather) I'd say there are chances the game won't be released in 3 months.
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Post by Sartoz on Dec 22, 2016 22:19:32 GMT
Honestly, for good or ill, this sounds pretty much exactly what DA Is maps were. Some maps were HUGE (Hinterlands, Western Approach, Exalted Plains) while some were much much much smaller (Fallow Mire, Storm Coast) the key is going to be this whole idea of 'density of content' they keep on talking about and putting the right amount of quests on each planet make them interesting, but more importantly, make them varried. Annnnnndd if they can make each planet connect to each other in terms of plot, and the main plot in some way, annnnnd then sometimes connect to each other, they could be onto something. *´¨) ¸.•´¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨) (¸.•´ (¸.•` ¤ Mass Effect Andromeda
I'd like to be able to order items from Supply Outposts... legal or under the table. Also, I can't see "density content" as anything but mining resources. And, I don't see myself doing this "elf root gathering" in a sci-fi setting.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 22, 2016 22:21:24 GMT
Beginning to look more and more like April at this point.
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napoleon
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Post by napoleon on Dec 22, 2016 22:34:00 GMT
Are you kidding? There is a lot of things happening outside the main settlements in Witcher 3. If Bioware follow their example it would be really good. Nah Witcher 3 suffers from a lot of the same things DA:I does. People like to overlook it for some reason. Velen, Skellige, and Novigrad tend to turn into massive grindfests where you trot from village to village completing meaningless sidequests and exploring meaningless content (?'s are the bane of my existence). I hate Velen and Novigrad more than any area in DA:I and the existence of those areas actively prevent me from ever wanting to replay the game. All sense of pacing in the story is screwed by the open world content. It was especially disappointing because of how well paced the story of Witcher 2 is. I also hate how the only worthwhile gear in the game are Witcher gear that have to be found in tedious treasure hunts and crafted. Almost the exact same crafting mechanic as DA:I which is pretty derided by the community. The openworld system Witcher 3 used may have been pretty but it was incredibly shallow.
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GannayevOfDreams
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Post by GannayevOfDreams on Dec 22, 2016 22:38:11 GMT
Always seems like a shame to cut content once it exists. Especially if you can see it just on the horizon but are blocked with invisible walls or some other artificial gating. I'm a bit of a fan of unused spaces.
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Post by Cyonan on Dec 22, 2016 23:15:29 GMT
Telling me that it's going to take an hour to drive across doesn't really impress me if there's nothing interesting inside of that 1 hour drive.
It doesn't even need to be all quests or collection stuff. Just finding cool looking vistas is nice for exploration, but if all I'm doing is holding W as I drive across the same looking area of desert for 50 minutes that's going to be boring.
That's why Elder Scrolls switched from mass generated worlds in 2 to the smaller but filled with more interesting stuff style of Morrowind and onward even though Daggerfall's map is bigger than Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim combined.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 22, 2016 23:21:32 GMT
Telling me that it's going to take an hour to drive across doesn't really impress me if there's nothing interesting inside of that 1 hour drive. It doesn't even need to be all quests or collection stuff. Just finding cool looking vistas is nice for exploration, but if all I'm doing is holding W as I drive across the same looking area of desert for 50 minutes that's going to be boring. That's why Elder Scrolls switched from mass generated worlds in 2 to the smaller but filled with more interesting stuff style of Morrowind and onward even though Daggerfall's map is bigger than Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim combined. One of my favorite things to do in Inquisition was just pause to look atound at the environment and just how God Dang gorgeous it was.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Dec 22, 2016 23:27:22 GMT
Telling me that it's going to take an hour to drive across doesn't really impress me if there's nothing interesting inside of that 1 hour drive. It doesn't even need to be all quests or collection stuff. Just finding cool looking vistas is nice for exploration, but if all I'm doing is holding W as I drive across the same looking area of desert for 50 minutes that's going to be boring. That's why Elder Scrolls switched from mass generated worlds in 2 to the smaller but filled with more interesting stuff style of Morrowind and onward even though Daggerfall's map is bigger than Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim combined. Yeah, I have that problem with Final Fantasy XV, they have you "driving" along the road for up to 10min (that is the longest I have seen on my friends game) and you have to sit through the entire travel. Now some are fast travel locations, but not all of them and spending time just driving doesn't appeal to me. You can't even walk away from the game for randomly you will stop for one reason or another and the travel will pause until you tell it to start travelling again.
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Dec 23, 2016 0:57:41 GMT
Are you kidding? There is a lot of things happening outside the main settlements in Witcher 3. If Bioware follow their example it would be really good. Nah Witcher 3 suffers from a lot of the same things DA:I does. People like to overlook it for some reason. Velen, Skellige, and Novigrad tend to turn into massive grindfests where you trot from village to village completing meaningless sidequests and exploring meaningless content (?'s are the bane of my existence). I hate Velen and Novigrad more than any area in DA:I and the existence of those areas actively prevent me from ever wanting to replay the game. All sense of pacing in the story is screwed by the open world content. It was especially disappointing because of how well paced the story of Witcher 2 is. I also hate how the only worthwhile gear in the game are Witcher gear that have to be found in tedious treasure hunts and crafted. Almost the exact same crafting mechanic as DA:I which is pretty derided by the community. The openworld system Witcher 3 used may have been pretty but it was incredibly shallow. I do agree that people seem to overlook the problems with The Witcher, but I think prior to EA people overlooked a lot of the negative things around BioWare games as well.
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Cypher
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
Origin: ItsFreakinJesus
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PSN: TheMadTitan
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Post by Cypher on Dec 23, 2016 8:50:19 GMT
Maybe I'm alone here, but if I'm traversing alien terrain here and there, I don't think the worlds will be terribly convincing if there's a lot of stuff to do scattered about. These are worlds with maybe a small colony planted on them. Personally, I think ME1 had the right idea, marred in part by its jagged polygon terrain, copy/paste outposts and tricky vehicle comtrols, but also by how it clashed with the central narrative. Assuming all of the planets aren't populated with native live with their own little colonies and cities. Between Milky Way citizens setting up shop, Andromeda citizens living where they're living, and then the criminal elements of both galaxies posting up wherever to do criminal things, clusters of outposts of varying size would make sense any and everywhere.
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helios969
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by helios969 on Dec 23, 2016 12:41:15 GMT
Are you kidding? There is a lot of things happening outside the main settlements in Witcher 3. If Bioware follow their example it would be really good. Nah Witcher 3 suffers from a lot of the same things DA:I does. People like to overlook it for some reason. Velen, Skellige, and Novigrad tend to turn into massive grindfests where you trot from village to village completing meaningless sidequests and exploring meaningless content (?'s are the bane of my existence). I hate Velen and Novigrad more than any area in DA:I and the existence of those areas actively prevent me from ever wanting to replay the game. All sense of pacing in the story is screwed by the open world content. It was especially disappointing because of how well paced the story of Witcher 2 is. I also hate how the only worthwhile gear in the game are Witcher gear that have to be found in tedious treasure hunts and crafted. Almost the exact same crafting mechanic as DA:I which is pretty derided by the community. The openworld system Witcher 3 used may have been pretty but it was incredibly shallow. Well, all openworld systems are shallow which is why I'd be in favor of removing them completely. But if I have to have them, TW3 is far preferable to DAI or Skyrim. I think one of the biggest reason TW3 is lauded over DAI is the dynamic day/night/weather cycle. It simply sells the illusion. And I felt like random encounters were implemented better. Go to one of the areas in DAI and fight the same 3 group of enemies over and over and over...throughout the map. TW3 you run into bandits, then some necrophages, then maybe a forktail, then something else, with some of these encounters triggering cutscenes and little stories. Unfortunately RPG's have permanently been married to RPG's...you know, 'cause Skyrim sold a bazillion copies. The one thing I've learned from open-world games is that you're better off sticking to main story and companion content...and only do side stuff when it suits your fancy, is conveniently located, and makes a certain kind of sense in the grander context.
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