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Post by Tarkus on Dec 27, 2016 2:40:11 GMT
I voted to keep the same protagonist. Although I'm not averse to have a new hero per game, so long as we can be an alien.
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Post by derrame on Dec 27, 2016 2:58:40 GMT
Bioware people already said that Andromeda is not a trilogy or series, every game's story starts and ends and so the protagnist's story starts and ends so they won't keep the same protagonist
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Post by Trilobite Derby on Dec 27, 2016 3:01:33 GMT
I'm hoping for a continuation. Part of the reason I love Shepard so very huggy much is that they had a chance to grow across three games. Add that to interaction with a circle of friends across three major events and you... Have Dragon Age 2. Or the Mass Effect trilogy.
I really liked returning to my big stompy space boots to be Shepard again and again.
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Post by Pearl on Dec 27, 2016 3:12:48 GMT
Don't care. Honestly still a little upset we never got a spinoff game where we play as Garrus during his time as Archangel. If not being locked into the same protagonist(s) allows for something like this to happen, then I'm all for it.
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Post by jediguardian on Dec 27, 2016 7:07:12 GMT
Same Protagonist is Cool, It make me connect and bond to character
But If they want diffrent PC each game, I really want My Ryder to appear and have role on the MEA2 AND have option to take control over conversation, choice he/she make in MEA2 if we have save import from MEA1 & legally buy MEA1.
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Post by KaiserShep on Dec 27, 2016 9:14:47 GMT
Don't care. Honestly still a little upset we never got a spinoff game where we play as Garrus during his time as Archangel. If not being locked into the same protagonist(s) allows for something like this to happen, then I'm all for it. The spinoff you describe wouldn't be a full standalone game, but rather a smaller add-on that expands the universe like Leliana's Song.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2016 11:10:16 GMT
I really don't mind, I hope they just do whatever is best for the series. I've been happy with the warden/Hawke/Inquisitor, but I do have to admit that I wasn't quite as attached to them as I was Shepard. That doesn't mean that you should flog a dead horse though and force the story along with one protagonist just because folks want it. If it fits the narrative to kill Ryder in a blaze of glory at the end of the this or the next game then go for it. If it fits to keep hold of him/her for the future then go for it. Just as long as it's good.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2016 11:11:02 GMT
Don't care. Honestly still a little upset we never got a spinoff game where we play as Garrus during his time as Archangel. If not being locked into the same protagonist(s) allows for something like this to happen, then I'm all for it. I want this so bad now.
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Post by Ahriman on Dec 27, 2016 11:11:54 GMT
Bioware people already said that Andromeda is not a trilogy or series, every game's story starts and ends and so the protagnist's story starts and endsExcept that they didn't say this.
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Post by dalinne on Dec 27, 2016 11:39:31 GMT
Bioware people already said that Andromeda is not a trilogy or series, every game's story starts and ends and so the protagnist's story starts and ends so they won't keep the same protagonist That's not what they meant, exactly. They talked about story arcs. They said we will have a complete story arc each games. You can do that with the same protagonist or not. Think about a TV series with that pattern. All I can remember is Fringe: Each season of Fringe was planned with a season mystery revealed at the end of the season. In addition, the end of the season planted some other new mysteries. If the show was cancel, you could have thought the series have an end. If the show would have keep for another season, you have the new mysteries planted before. Edit: Of course, by the end of the season 3 we have a consistent mythology of the show, the characters and their backstories. No season was isolated from the others. The key part is having something autoconclusive just in case.
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zarrokhai
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Biotic 'Smash' can mean a whole other thing. Ask Jack ;)
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Post by zarrokhai on Dec 27, 2016 12:06:17 GMT
I feel DA's method makes me feel very detached towards the protagonists' and their companions. I still care about them, but not with the same level of intensity as the ME crew. Also, I like continuing the story with a single protagonist partially because I'm not interested in having my previous protagonist return as another NPC that acts and reacts much differently then when I was playing him/her (Example: Hawke). I also don't want to meet previous squadmates in future games only to be re-introduced to them. I know these guys, yet I'm suppose to pretend like I don't because I'm playing a new protagonist. So, yes, hopefully they make Ryder the only playable character throughout the Andromeda series.
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Post by Lulupab on Dec 27, 2016 12:45:46 GMT
Same protagonist means we get to know the companion more, which is always good. We can see events shape their personality on longer span of time.
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Post by traks on Dec 27, 2016 13:31:50 GMT
Keeping the same protagonist for multiple games is one of the main characteristics of ME, so I hope it returns for MEA.
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Post by Balsam Beige on Dec 27, 2016 14:21:25 GMT
Keeping the same protagonist for multiple games is one of the main characteristics of ME, so I hope it returns for MEA. So were Mass Relays. The same protagonist is fine. It would be nice if the same writers wrote each installment for story consistency. Also, non of this "This second installment is a great place to start" nonsense.
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Post by helios969 on Dec 27, 2016 15:59:47 GMT
One early poster nailed it. If the Ryder's are great continue, if they suck, dump 'em. I'm much more into the keep the same protagonist approach as it really allows me to connect with companions and reoccurring NPC's in a way not really possible swapping in a new hero. I'll cite an example. Miranda was someone I straight up despised in ME2. Basically, I never talked to her outside of what was mandatory. Her arrogance and the whole "perfection" aspect to her character was something I couldn't get beyond and as a consequence I missed the other side of her. But in ME3 I was able to observed that different side...and that made me go back and explore her character in more depth in ME2, to the point I really ended up liking her growth and appreciating the character. Under the DA system, that can't happen. The writers are unable to show character growth beyond the game unless it's more of a meta-thing like we saw with Morrigan and Leliana.
One way I could see changing up protagonists in subsequent ME games connected to Andromeda would be to draw from a pool of soon-to-be-established characters in MEA where everyone more or less knows one another (or at the very least about one another) in order to maintain some sort of continuity between a new player character and returning companions/NPC's.
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Post by RoboticWater on Dec 27, 2016 17:02:04 GMT
One early poster nailed it. If the Ryder's are great continue, if they suck, dump 'em. I'm much more into the keep the same protagonist approach as it really allows me to connect with companions and reoccurring NPC's in a way not really possible swapping in a new hero. I'll cite an example. Miranda was someone I straight up despised in ME2. Basically, I never talked to her outside of what was mandatory. Her arrogance and the whole "perfection" aspect to her character was something I couldn't get beyond and as a consequence I missed the other side of her. But in ME3 I was able to observed that different side...and that made me go back and explore her character in more depth in ME2, to the point I really ended up liking her growth and appreciating the character. Under the DA system, that can't happen. The writers are unable to show character growth beyond the game unless it's more of a meta-thing like we saw with Morrigan and Leliana. One way I could see changing up protagonists in subsequent ME games connected to Andromeda would be to draw from a pool of soon-to-be-established characters in MEA where everyone more or less knows one another (or at the very least about one another) in order to maintain some sort of continuity between a new player character and returning companions/NPC's. Here's the rub: development on sequels doesn't start after a game releases. In fact, I'd say pre-production is currently happening on the next Mass Effect, and deciding on a protagonist is something you'd definitely figure out at the very start of pre-production. How is BioWare going to know how well everyone takes to Ryder before their game comes out? Sure, BioWare have testers giving constant feedback, but presumably, you want the arbiters of Ryder's quality to be us, not people internal to EA. More importantly, what does "great" mean in this context? I can easily conceptualize how a bad protagonist could get weeded out, but as a AAA developer know for their writing, I can't imagine BioWare would put out a plain bad protagonist. It's the one character that's always around; if they're testing that poorly, you'd know. The worst case scenario is that we get an uninspired protagonist. Someone who works well enough, but won't knock your socks off. Even if they're not a "great" protagonist, I doubt anyone would complain enough to get BioWare to fix it. Regardless, I feel like having the extra character development should be a non-issue. Obviously, more screen time means more development (provided we have writers who care), but we shouldn't need a second game just to properly explore a character. If Miranda was lame in ME2, either it's your fault for not exploring the depths of her character or it's BioWare's for not putting any depth there to begin with (or not convincing you that the depth is there). We shouldn't need another game to make her character arc to be complete and we especially shouldn't need it to make her character the least bit enticing. Sure, it's great to see a character grow further in subsequent games, particularly in the new narrative context the new game presumably has; however, I would prefer to have more complete individual arcs in single games than extended arcs in multiple games. Besides, DA's method of bringing characters back as NPC works quite well. I think seeing their characters grow beyond our protagonist is actually more valuable than simply meeting up with them again.
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Post by helios969 on Dec 27, 2016 18:03:59 GMT
One early poster nailed it. If the Ryder's are great continue, if they suck, dump 'em. I'm much more into the keep the same protagonist approach as it really allows me to connect with companions and reoccurring NPC's in a way not really possible swapping in a new hero. I'll cite an example. Miranda was someone I straight up despised in ME2. Basically, I never talked to her outside of what was mandatory. Her arrogance and the whole "perfection" aspect to her character was something I couldn't get beyond and as a consequence I missed the other side of her. But in ME3 I was able to observed that different side...and that made me go back and explore her character in more depth in ME2, to the point I really ended up liking her growth and appreciating the character. Under the DA system, that can't happen. The writers are unable to show character growth beyond the game unless it's more of a meta-thing like we saw with Morrigan and Leliana. One way I could see changing up protagonists in subsequent ME games connected to Andromeda would be to draw from a pool of soon-to-be-established characters in MEA where everyone more or less knows one another (or at the very least about one another) in order to maintain some sort of continuity between a new player character and returning companions/NPC's. Here's the rub: development on sequels doesn't start after a game releases. In fact, I'd say pre-production is currently happening on the next Mass Effect, and deciding on a protagonist is something you'd definitely figure out at the very start of pre-production. How is BioWare going to know how well everyone takes to Ryder before their game comes out? Sure, BioWare have testers giving constant feedback, but presumably, you want the arbiters of Ryder's quality to be us, not people internal to EA. More importantly, what does "great" mean in this context? I can easily conceptualize how a bad protagonist could get weeded out, but as a AAA developer know for their writing, I can't imagine BioWare would put out a plain bad protagonist. It's the one character that's always around; if they're testing that poorly, you'd know. The worst case scenario is that we get an uninspired protagonist. Someone who works well enough, but won't knock your socks off. Even if they're not a "great" protagonist, I doubt anyone would complain enough to get BioWare to fix it. Regardless, I feel like having the extra character development should be a non-issue. Obviously, more screen time means more development (provided we have writers who care), but we shouldn't need a second game just to properly explore a character. If Miranda was lame in ME2, either it's your fault for not exploring the depths of her character or it's BioWare's for not putting any depth there to begin with (or not convincing you that the depth is there). We shouldn't need another game to make her character arc to be complete and we especially shouldn't need it to make her character the least bit enticing. Sure, it's great to see a character grow further in subsequent games, particularly in the new narrative context the new game presumably has; however, I would prefer to have more complete individual arcs in single games than extended arcs in multiple games. Besides, DA's method of bringing characters back as NPC works quite well. I think seeing their characters grow beyond our protagonist is actually more valuable than simply meeting up with them again. I actually doubt the Ryder's end up being bad. Bioware's never really had one. The closest thing Bio has ever had to a bad protagonist was the Inquisitor...and they were more bland than bad. Arguably Bio's worst game DA2 had the best protagonist, which was originally supposed to be the Inquisitor I might add (and would have made DAI's RP experience substantially better imo). As to your last point, it works well if you're viewing it from a book or movie perspective where you are omnipotent, but as a RP experience it ends up being a weird meta-gaming experience...since we aren't supposed to really know those characters...or care. While I can appreciate the growth observed in those two from DAO, it places me outside of the RP experience...which is something RPG's should avoid doing. If you're going to chose the new protagonist for each game route, then it should extend to companions as well...limiting them to cameos at most. I obviously prefer the continuity of a single PC over multiple games, because it's easier to reestablish my connection to the world with familiar faces without breaking the immersion.
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Go Team!
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Dec 27, 2016 19:18:49 GMT
Bioware people already said that Andromeda is not a trilogy or series, every game's story starts and ends and so the protagnist's story starts and ends so they won't keep the same protagonist That's not what they meant, exactly. They talked about story arcs. They said we will have a complete story arc each games. You can do that with the same protagonist or not. Think about a TV series with that pattern. All I can remember is Fringe: Each season of Fringe was planned with a season mystery revealed at the end of the season. In addition, the end of the season planted some other new mysteries. If the show was cancel, you could have thought the series have an end. If the show would have keep for another season, you have the new mysteries planted before. Edit: Of course, by the end of the season 3 we have a consistent mythology of the show, the characters and their backstories. No season was isolated from the others. The key part is having something autoconclusive just in case. Exactly as each game even in the ME trilogy has it's own arc which includes a beginning a middle and an end. ME1's was the fight mostly with Saren and stopping him from destroying humanity which was how Shepard got pulled into the reaper business.ME2 was about stopping the collectors from doing the same thing desrtoying humanity. ME3 is the reapers themselves now having a go. So eacxh game essentially is it's own individual story because you are fighting a different enemy in each of the 3 games and as such the series can be played that way if the player wishes to. Yes you had the reapers going on throughout all 3 games but that was the overall story but they were still individual stories within that overall story
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Dec 27, 2016 22:34:31 GMT
I feel DA's method makes me feel very detached towards the protagonists' and their companions. I still care about them, but not with the same level of intensity as the ME crew. Also, I like continuing the story with a single protagonist partially because I'm not interested in having my previous protagonist return as another NPC that acts and reacts much differently then when I was playing him/her (Example: Hawke). I also don't want to meet previous squadmates in future games only to be re-introduced to them. I know these guys, yet I'm suppose to pretend like I don't because I'm playing a new protagonist. So, yes, hopefully they make Ryder the only playable character throughout the Andromeda series. Until they decide to "artistic integrity" them?
But aside from that, keeping the same character across the series is going to bring in a LOT of baggage.
"I made choice X and it was never acknowledged!"
Why is "X companion back? I hated him/her! Why can't I kill them/dump them on a station/throw them out an airlock!"?
Or worse "Why isn't X companion back? We were bros! She was my waifu! This new crew sucks!"
"This reaction is totally OOC for my Ryder! Remember when I *recount incident in previous game where the player had Ryder react a certain way*"
Bringing back the same character means bringing back EVERYTHING they ever said or did across many, many playthroughs. Old buddies, old enemies, old LIs, every choice, major or minor. And at the same time, the writers will have to bring in new buddies, new enemies, new LIs, and a bunch of new options because, you know, they'll want to tell a new story.
Consider the Mass Effect trilogy. By the third game there were TWELVE LIs. Not including Allers, Vega, or Samara. By game three or four of Ryder's adventures, how the HELL are they going to manage that, and keep any fans of these characters happy?
And that's just the tip of the iceberg. What about companions who could die? Or even the "big choices" aspect. The Collector base/rachni queen/fate of the Council level choices. These things that help define your character and their story have to keep being brought forward as well. It's part of why ME3 sucked. The things that helped define Shepard for so many people, in the end, weren't really there, save as a number.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 27, 2016 22:57:33 GMT
I feel DA's method makes me feel very detached towards the protagonists' and their companions. I still care about them, but not with the same level of intensity as the ME crew. Also, I like continuing the story with a single protagonist partially because I'm not interested in having my previous protagonist return as another NPC that acts and reacts much differently then when I was playing him/her (Example: Hawke). I also don't want to meet previous squadmates in future games only to be re-introduced to them. I know these guys, yet I'm suppose to pretend like I don't because I'm playing a new protagonist. So, yes, hopefully they make Ryder the only playable character throughout the Andromeda series. Until they decide to "artistic integrity" them?
But aside from that, keeping the same character across the series is going to bring in a LOT of baggage.
"I made choice X and it was never acknowledged!"
Why is "X companion back? I hated him/her! Why can't I kill them/dump them on a station/throw them out an airlock!"?
Or worse "Why isn't X companion back? We were bros! She was my waifu! This new crew sucks!"
"This reaction is totally OOC for my Ryder! Remember when I *recount incident in previous game where the player had Ryder react a certain way*"
Bringing back the same character means bringing back EVERYTHING they ever said or did across many, many playthroughs. Old buddies, old enemies, old LIs, every choice, major or minor. And at the same time, the writers will have to bring in new buddies, new enemies, new LIs, and a bunch of new options because, you know, they'll want to tell a new story.
Consider the Mass Effect trilogy. By the third game there were TWELVE LIs. Not including Allers, Vega, or Samara. By game three or four of Ryder's adventures, how the HELL are they going to manage that, and keep any fans of these characters happy?
And that's just the tip of the iceberg. What about companions who could die? Or even the "big choices" aspect. The Collector base/rachni queen/fate of the Council level choices. These things that help define your character and their story have to keep being brought forward as well. It's part of why ME3 sucked. The things that helped define Shepard for so many people, in the end, weren't really there, save as a number.
It depends on how carefully they write. Closing off plot lines and tying them up could keep this problem to a managable number. But its probably easier to just switch characters each game.
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Post by themikefest on Dec 27, 2016 23:14:51 GMT
Don't care. Honestly still a little upset we never got a spinoff game where we play as Garrus during his time as Archangel. If not being locked into the same protagonist(s) allows for something like this to happen, then I'm all for it. I'm upset I couldn't get a spinoff to play as Conrad trying to save the galaxy while Shepard was dead for two years
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Post by Iakus on Dec 27, 2016 23:52:23 GMT
It depends on how carefully they write. Closing off plot lines and tying them up could keep this problem to a managable number. But its probably easier to just switch characters each game. They'd have to have the entire multi-game arc planned out. They'd have to know what effect the rachni being there or not would have, the state of the Council, etc, and account for it across several games. And they'd have to somehow introduce new companions while keeping the old ones, while not getting too bloated a companion list. And account for the presence or absence of all of them (not to mention. They'd have to be able to devote equal time to each and every LI they introduce. And account for players romancing them, staying loyal, cheating, etc. (not to mention demands to kill companions, which for some reason keeps coming up) And the Mass Effect Trilogy pretty well demonstrates they aren't willing to do that. Instead we get "LOL let's close off the plot lines by killing the character off for a couple of years, then bring him/her back to life with 'resources'!"
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December 2016
zarrokhai
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by zarrokhai on Dec 28, 2016 1:26:30 GMT
I feel DA's method makes me feel very detached towards the protagonists' and their companions. I still care about them, but not with the same level of intensity as the ME crew. Also, I like continuing the story with a single protagonist partially because I'm not interested in having my previous protagonist return as another NPC that acts and reacts much differently then when I was playing him/her (Example: Hawke). I also don't want to meet previous squadmates in future games only to be re-introduced to them. I know these guys, yet I'm suppose to pretend like I don't because I'm playing a new protagonist. So, yes, hopefully they make Ryder the only playable character throughout the Andromeda series. Until they decide to "artistic integrity" them?
But aside from that, keeping the same character across the series is going to bring in a LOT of baggage.
"I made choice X and it was never acknowledged!"
Why is "X companion back? I hated him/her! Why can't I kill them/dump them on a station/throw them out an airlock!"?
Or worse "Why isn't X companion back? We were bros! She was my waifu! This new crew sucks!"
"This reaction is totally OOC for my Ryder! Remember when I *recount incident in previous game where the player had Ryder react a certain way*"
Bringing back the same character means bringing back EVERYTHING they ever said or did across many, many playthroughs. Old buddies, old enemies, old LIs, every choice, major or minor. And at the same time, the writers will have to bring in new buddies, new enemies, new LIs, and a bunch of new options because, you know, they'll want to tell a new story.
Consider the Mass Effect trilogy. By the third game there were TWELVE LIs. Not including Allers, Vega, or Samara. By game three or four of Ryder's adventures, how the HELL are they going to manage that, and keep any fans of these characters happy?
And that's just the tip of the iceberg. What about companions who could die? Or even the "big choices" aspect. The Collector base/rachni queen/fate of the Council level choices. These things that help define your character and their story have to keep being brought forward as well. It's part of why ME3 sucked. The things that helped define Shepard for so many people, in the end, weren't really there, save as a number.
Of course there's gonna be baggage, no matter how you do it. Even if you switched protagonists, the writers are still going to bring back previous companions or even previous protagonists. Only this time you won't have any say in how your earlier protagonists acts or reacts. And ME 3 didn't suck lol. The ending was disappointing sure, but the overall game was quite enjoyable. I liked how they handle most of the potential character deaths and whatnot. The thing that Bioware acknowledged in the original trilogy is that some of the choices were way too huge (galactic changing) to the point that it made making sequels extremely difficult. So I doubt we'd be looking at major galactic choices at every turn. As for twelve LI's, most of them were handled well enough. Sure, some had less screen time than others, but it was a GODDAMN war, you can't expect them to all be together at every moment. The only romance that was a major disappointment was Jacob's, and that was because Bioware dropped the ball on him. Even Thane's was understandable (you knew he was going to die, so there never was a happy ending). Whatever faults the ME trilogy had, it was more than outshined by it's main strength: Shepard. Most of us came back to the sequels BECAUSE we wanted to continue Shepard's story. It's why Mass Effect has a bigger fanbase that Dragon Age despite both games being made by the same company. The attachment you feel in ME is absent in DA because we have to keep switching protagonists every game. As for companions you like or dislike, that will always be up to Bioware to handle. I never liked Leliana, but I even when I got rid of her she somehow came back in DA:I. That coming from a game which switches protagonists and changes story every game. She is simple proof that baggage is gonna happen regardless of whether they decide to switch protagonists or keep the same one. So, NO, I still prefer if they stick to a single protagonist.
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Usually respectful
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5,084
Shinobu
Grateful to have this forum. Also, a giant killjoy.
1,540
August 2016
shinobu
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
Shinobu211
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Post by Shinobu on Dec 28, 2016 3:48:37 GMT
I really liked having Shepard through three games and watching her relationships with the squaddies evolve over time. Having a new protagonist means new squaddies each game and I don't really want to do the "who are you and why are you joining and yes, I can help you with your daddy issues" every game. One game is long enough to get fairly attached to the characters, but not nearly the level of attachment I felt for the MET characters. I also don't really like carryover NPCs with new protagonists, like Oghren, Anders, Varric, Cullen, Leliana, etc. I don't want to get to know them again as a new PC, I want to continue an established relationship. They just add baggage otherwise. ("Hey, Alistair, I know I'm the Inquisitor and we've just met and all, but I really want you to tell me how much you love the Warden in great detail.")
So all in all, I'd rather have one protagonist and one squad for multiple games -- but only if I really like the protagonist. I loved Shepard and her crew and would gladly play more games with her (Post Destroy Oregon trail to Rannoch, anyone?). On the other hand, I loathed Hawke (no offense to Jo Wyatt, it wasn't her fault) and would not be interested in playing multiple games with her. The Inquisitor was fine and don't think finishing Solas' story with a new protagonist will have the same feeling of gravitas as finishing it as the Inquisitor (though I know that won't happen).
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Nov 18, 2024 10:01:57 GMT
1,105
Duke Cameron
1,058
Sept 13, 2016 0:28:35 GMT
September 2016
animalboy
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Duke Cameron on Dec 28, 2016 4:37:16 GMT
Keep the same protagonist
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