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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2016 4:31:05 GMT
It did with the original cast. The exception was the ME2 cast, minus Garrus and Tali, but it was arguably a mistake in the first place to even introduce a new cast of squadmates in ME2. I liked the ME2 squadmates, but introducing an entirely new set of companions on the middle of a trilogy, all of whom could also be killed on the Suicide Mission, created lots of problems that ME3 was never going to solve. There were too many characters with variable fates to account for going into the third game, guaranteeing that some were only going to get cameos. Mass Effect 1 had similar problems with characters that die off. You don't have to recruit Garrus, Wrex can be killed, and you pick Ashley or Kaiden to survive Virmire. So they would have had the same problem in Mass Effect 2 as they did with Mass Effect 3 if they didn't introduce a lot of new characters. Edit: They mimic Mass Effect 1 in Mass Effect 2 where Liara is the only character that doesn't have a chance of dying or not being recruited. While characters in ME1 had variable fates, there were only six of them. Mass Effect 2 introduced eleven new companions, all of whom also had variable fates. The squadmate situation in ME3 isn't really comparable to that going into ME2, because ME3 had more than twice as many companions to account for. Had Bioware kept the same core cast through all three games, as they should have, the ME3 devs would have a lot less companions to juggle and it would have been a more manageable task. The ME2 cast should have been shelved for a game like Andromeda and ME2's suicide mission saved for the finale of ME3.
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Post by Sanunes on Dec 29, 2016 4:41:27 GMT
Since the thread is about having the same main character for more games, what about squadmates? If a squadmate is an option to be recruited, should that squadmate appear in a sequel? I have no problems with a squadmate returning in a sequel. The only time I would think it would be a bad idea is if they can die in a previous game, only because instead of focusing the role solely for the returning character they either remove what might tailor the role for that character or the content they would have written for that character gets split in two so they can have multiple characters fill that role which is what we saw in Mass Effect 3 since they had generic characters fill in for any potential dead character.
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Post by themikefest on Dec 29, 2016 4:52:37 GMT
The ME2 cast should have been shelved for a game like Andromeda and ME2's suicide mission saved for the finale of ME3. They still could have a suicide mission for ME2/3. If the cast of characters is kept the same, and maybe add 1 or 2 new characters to the roster to make the total to 7 or 8. Add 4 or 5 who would be Cerberus soldiers to make 12, they would end up being the mandatory deaths in ME2.
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Post by bekkael on Dec 29, 2016 14:24:42 GMT
I prefer a new PC each time. The emotional devastation is worse when BioWare kills off a character I've played for multiple games. Plus, it's fun to get to know the different story of a new player character each time like the DA series has done. I loved the Warden, loved Hawke, hated the Inquisitor. Two out of three ain't bad.
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Post by themikefest on Dec 29, 2016 14:39:56 GMT
Two out of three ain't bad. Meatloaf has a song by that title. excellent
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Post by steamz on Dec 30, 2016 18:48:16 GMT
normally I prefer to keep protagonists. but if I end up hating the game or the Ryders, then I'll want a new one.
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Post by midnightwolf on Dec 31, 2016 12:30:03 GMT
It depends if they plan on having old squad mates show up everywhere, like DA. The constant fan-service cameos in those games, make the World seem very small when we have a new Protagonist every game. And frankly, I find them annoying.
So, I'd rather keep the same protagonist IF they plan on having cameos/reoccurring characters.
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Post by DalishRanger on Jan 1, 2017 18:49:22 GMT
Eh, like others, it depends on a lot of factors. I voted for "change" but my feelings on that really depend. I like the Dragon Age series' approach to covering different events/regions in the same universe with new protagonists, and I like the original ME's trilogy of Shepard. If they have more stories to tell about the same core issue like with Shepard, I'd probably prefer another series-long protagonist. If they're more exploratory and covering different key events in each game ala DA, I'd rather have a new person to play in each game.
It's equally fun for me to further expand on a character over many games and create someone new to experience a new story.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2017 9:27:14 GMT
It really depends, the principle of the keeping the same protagonists does have the benefit of making us care about them and their companions. It also give to the developer plenty of time to make their characters evolve and grow thus offering better and realistic content. The only minus in this is that the protagonist need to be charismatic and likeable for the entire premise not to collapse on its own.
So I support a single protagonist throughout a trilogy but BW should do all it can to be sure, the protagonist is likeable and has its soul. The Inquisitor is NOT the way you want to go.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 2, 2017 10:39:59 GMT
The Inquisitor is NOT the way you want to go. In your opinion, perhaps. The Inquisitor is my favorite Bioware protagonist easily. I like them much more than Hawke or Shepard, seeing them as not the way to go.
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Post by Sanunes on Jan 2, 2017 13:42:41 GMT
It really depends, the principle of the keeping the same protagonists does have the benefit of making us care about them and their companions. It also give to the developer plenty of time to make their characters evolve and grow thus offering better and realistic content. The only minus in this is that the protagonist need to be charismatic and likeable for the entire premise not to collapse on its own. So I support a single protagonist throughout a trilogy but BW should do all it can to be sure, the protagonist is likeable and has its soul. The Inquisitor is NOT the way you want to go. I personally found the Inquisitor to be a lot like any other BioWare protagonist, they are empty and soulless to allow for a blank slate and for me to shape. The only way to get away from that from my experience is to make a more fixed character, but I doubt BioWare will do that.
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Post by Muddy Boots on Jan 2, 2017 16:20:14 GMT
It really depends, the principle of the keeping the same protagonists does have the benefit of making us care about them and their companions. It also give to the developer plenty of time to make their characters evolve and grow thus offering better and realistic content. The only minus in this is that the protagonist need to be charismatic and likeable for the entire premise not to collapse on its own. So I support a single protagonist throughout a trilogy but BW should do all it can to be sure, the protagonist is likeable and has its soul. The Inquisitor is NOT the way you want to go. I love my Inquisitor. Couldn't stand Hawke no matter how I tried to play her/him. To each his/her own.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jan 2, 2017 16:43:50 GMT
Part of the magic is having the protagonist persist through games and have their choices be accounted for. I was impressed as fuck when I saw the dude I made in ME1 come back in ME2 exactly as I'd made him (minus the scar, because, hey if they regrew his whole face back, the least they could do is fix it up a bit ) Just because they wrote themselves into a corner with the trilogy, doesn't mean the concept is bad. Or that they'll do it again. I know we make fun of the devs a lot, but surely they do learn something.
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Post by Sanunes on Jan 2, 2017 16:51:06 GMT
Part of the magic is having the protagonist persist through games and have their choices be accounted for. I was impressed as fuck when I saw the dude I made in ME1 come back in ME2 exactly as I'd made him (minus the scar, because, hey if they regrew his whole face back, the least they could do is fix it up a bit ) Just because they wrote themselves into a corner with the trilogy, doesn't mean the concept is bad. Or that they'll do it again. I know we make fun of the devs a lot, but surely they do learn something. I agree, but at the same time when the "making fun of" is loud enough combined with other factors such as people filing legal complaints that will have an impact on the design choices of the future. I think Andromeda is a really good sign of that because of how quiet BioWare has been because they don't want to have "you lied" or "the person from the BBB wrote a blog saying..." to possibly impact sales. I think developers and publishers are the most worried about the really vocal people during the first couple of months of a game's release and after that they stop caring because it won't hurt the sales of the game that much. Having a returning protagonist is fine and I agree that the concept isn't bad, but with the amount of choice BioWare does put in its games and the expectations people have of those choices when carrying forward there always needs to be a cutoff point so they can start in a new direction.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2017 16:53:14 GMT
The Inquisitor is NOT the way you want to go. In your opinion, perhaps. The Inquisitor is my favorite Bioware protagonist easily. I like them much more than Hawke or Shepard, seeing them as not the way to go. Of course it's my opinion however I would like to ask you (and the others that share your opinion) then what made for you the Inquisitor a compelling character? As far as I know the race you picked changed almost nothing of the experience you received. Plus we really don't see any personal involvement or character progression. The Inquisitor remained the Inquisitor, what he/she was as a person never really came out because the title the protagonist carried overshadowed pretty much who said protagonist was before getting that title. You picked an elf? a dwarf? a qunari? a human? Well it doesn't matter because he/she is the Inquisitor who is focused on his/her mission and pretty much doesn't care about anything else. Hawke with all his/her flaws still had much better character progression, he/she interacted with his/her family and became a different person over the gaming passing years. The Inquisitor did not have any of these personal moment. We never really see him/her suffering a personal crisis and mature as an individual. I suspect with the role of the family we have seen so far, ME:A is going to take the Hawke path for protagonist and character progression. That's of course my two cents.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jan 2, 2017 17:06:51 GMT
I agree, but at the same time when the "making fun of" is loud enough combined with other factors such as people filing legal complaints that will have an impact on the design choices of the future. I think Andromeda is a really good sign of that because of how quiet BioWare has been because they don't want to have "you lied" or "the person from the BBB wrote a blog saying..." to possibly impact sales. I think developers and publishers are the most worried about the really vocal people during the first couple of months of a game's release and after that they stop caring because it won't hurt the sales of the game that much. Having a returning protagonist is fine and I agree that the concept isn't bad, but with the amount of choice BioWare does put in its games and the expectations people have of those choices when carrying forward there always needs to be a cutoff point so they can start in a new direction. Again, all of that can be handled by an amount of planning greater than "none at all". It can also depend on the type of story/world you have going. With the trilogy, they forced themselves to close it off to a point with the Reaper war. If you do smaller stories in an ongoing world you don't have to converge everything the same way, whether it fits or not. So choices can still be accounted for in interesting ways without breaking the setting.
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Post by Sanunes on Jan 2, 2017 17:51:06 GMT
In your opinion, perhaps. The Inquisitor is my favorite Bioware protagonist easily. I like them much more than Hawke or Shepard, seeing them as not the way to go. Of course it's my opinion however I would like to ask you (and the others that share your opinion) then what made for you the Inquisitor a compelling character? As far as I know the race you picked changed almost nothing of the experience you received. Plus we really don't see any personal involvement or character progression. The Inquisitor remained the Inquisitor, what he/she was as a person never really came out because the title the protagonist carried overshadowed pretty much who said protagonist was before getting that title. You picked an elf? a dwarf? a qunari? a human? Well it doesn't matter because he/she is the Inquisitor who is focused on his/her mission and pretty much doesn't care about anything else. Hawke with all his/her flaws still had much better character progression, he/she interacted with his/her family and became a different person over the gaming passing years. The Inquisitor did not have any of these personal moment. We never really see him/her suffering a personal crisis and mature as an individual. I suspect with the role of the family we have seen so far, ME:A is going to take the Hawke path for protagonist and character progression. That's of course my two cents. To your first paragraph, that also describes my interactions with The Warden as well, I do think the loss of memories is probably what hurt your enjoyment with The Inquisitor for that would seem to something that would impact what you are enjoying about Hawke. I could be a little more jaded for when I play a BioWare game the second time the protagonist becomes less interesting overall since it is all the same no matter how you try and form your character or at least has the same impact on the world.
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Post by fialka on Jan 2, 2017 18:31:40 GMT
In your opinion, perhaps. The Inquisitor is my favorite Bioware protagonist easily. I like them much more than Hawke or Shepard, seeing them as not the way to go. Of course it's my opinion however I would like to ask you (and the others that share your opinion) then what made for you the Inquisitor a compelling character? As far as I know the race you picked changed almost nothing of the experience you received. Plus we really don't see any personal involvement or character progression. The Inquisitor remained the Inquisitor, what he/she was as a person never really came out because the title the protagonist carried overshadowed pretty much who said protagonist was before getting that title. You picked an elf? a dwarf? a qunari? a human? Well it doesn't matter because he/she is the Inquisitor who is focused on his/her mission and pretty much doesn't care about anything else. Hawke with all his/her flaws still had much better character progression, he/she interacted with his/her family and became a different person over the gaming passing years. The Inquisitor did not have any of these personal moment. We never really see him/her suffering a personal crisis and mature as an individual. I suspect with the role of the family we have seen so far, ME:A is going to take the Hawke path for protagonist and character progression. That's of course my two cents. Though this question wasn't directed toward me, I'll go ahead and give my two cents. I'll try to keep it brief because I've discussed this at length elsewhere on the forum. The issue with Hawke was that your options were to play a character with very little nuance (to the point where I feel like I might as well have chosen, say, 'sarcastic,' at chargen and let autodialogue move me through every conversation not involving a decision) or someone whose lines and delivery were so inconsistent as to not feel like a real person at all. Not only that, but the personalities were so set and specific Hawke just felt like a body I was driving versus my character. Now this is fine for a game with a set protagonist but Dragon Age is supposed to be an RPG with a customizable one. I didn't feel like I could roleplay her all that much. Like, even the decisions I made seemed to cater to a personality. My favorite Hawke was the direct/aggressive version. But I felt like the game expected me to choose 'evil' options in the quests, be rude to my friends and family, and pursue a rivalmance. If I didn't 'nice' Hawke would temporarily possess her body so she could pursue an non-abusive relationship or side with some mages. Shepard suffered from this as well at times (especially in ME3), but I felt like you could mix and match the two reasonably well. And in ME1 and ME2 you had some neutral options when you wanted to be more pragmatic. As long as you didn't mind the game punishing you for it later (again, in ME3)... fortunately they've gotten rid of that. Maybe that's what it comes down to. In the ME trilogy you were punished for not maxing out paragon/renegade to the point where you missed out on dialogue and even the best possible outcomes for specific quests. In DA2, you were punished for not going full diplomatic/sarcastic/aggressive because your Hawke would sound like an irrational crazy person. In Inquisition, I could choose whatever dialogue choices I felt were appropriate in the moment, I could choose how my character felt about specific issues and specific people, I could make whatever choice I wanted to in a quest, and my vision for that character could come to life in a believable way. And if she came across as a bit bland, well - I could use my imagination to fill in the blanks. Without having some autodialogue I didn't choose contradicting that (for the most part anyway). It's a trade-off I'm more than okay with. Could it have been done better? Sure, and I think Trespasser showed what they're capable of if they shift us back toward someone a bit more expressive. I think another example of a voiced protagonist done well (or at least, done in a way I like) was Fallout 4. Although there were other issues with the dialogue system, I thought the way they used tone to give you different ways to respond in conversation was done really well - once you figured out which side of the wheel corresponded to which one anyway. Again, you could create a character with nuanced beliefs and emotional reactions - and I thought Courtenay Taylor (can't speak for the guy as I never played him) did a great job of sounded consistent throughout, while also sounding emotive and interesting. I think the perfect balance would be somewhere in between the Inquisitor and Hawke/Shepard... and the bits I've heard about the Ryder twins, from the trailers and dev comments and VA interviews, makes me optimistic that that's where they land. Aaand, so much for keeping it brief. Oh well.
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Post by slimgrin on Jan 2, 2017 18:35:25 GMT
Problem is, most devs can't do a single character justice in the space of 3 games. Shepard's jesus fate at the end of ME3 felt like a cruel joke. So if keeping the setting and switching protagonists works better for Bioware, if they can tell a better story that way, fine with me.
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Post by London on Jan 2, 2017 18:40:00 GMT
I would have Voted Yes as well.
ME-Trilogy had a lot of emotional payoff keeping the same protagonist and supporting cast members 1-3. Not only did it give people 5/6 years to grow attached to these characters, but it allowed for interesting character arcs. How I felt during the Citadel DLC and end battle would not have been the same if I had just met the characters only 1 game.
Yes there are a lot of games where I love the characters, but it's not the same level as following them for so long.
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Post by PhatePhoenix on Jan 2, 2017 20:20:54 GMT
[TILTS HEAD] Both ways have their appeals. I love when the Point of View shifts and lets me see other people's reactions to what my character has done, as Dragon Age has allowed me to do. But, gosh, I think I would've loved DAI so much more if I'd been playing as my Hawkes instead.
I suppose... it's about the story being told. If the story is told more about world itself, as Dragon Age tends to do, then switching protagonists makes sense. However, when a story is tightly connected to a particular character--such as the Reapers and Shepard, or Hawke and Corypheus--I feel that keeping the same protagonist can make the story stronger.
With MEA, if they're focusing on the Milky Way immigrants and how they're building up a home in Andromeda, I would prefer them to switch protagonists, so we can see the different parts of their society. (Heck, maybe we could switch species from game to game.) However, if Ryder themself has a personal stake in an on-going conflict and their continued presence adds to the stakes (like Shepard, or, again, Hawke and Corypheus), then I'd like them to stick with Ryder.
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Post by SwobyJ on Jan 12, 2017 9:53:52 GMT
Keep Ryder.
As in keep him after he dies and is taken over by SAM and becomes someone else.
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Post by Gray Jedi on Jan 12, 2017 10:13:10 GMT
If it fits the story bioware wants to tell i have always been a fan of doing a trilogy but this story is about the milky way races finding a new home not just humanity. So i think they will switch to another race in the the next game focusing more on there story.
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