cobalt72
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Post by cobalt72 on Mar 15, 2017 17:02:18 GMT
Question that may have already been answered but what's the custom setting under the presets? It seems to be greyed out in the videos? Is it where you enter a face code? Or can you customize a preset further?
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velvetstraitjacket
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Post by velvetstraitjacket on Mar 15, 2017 17:05:14 GMT
Question that may have already been answered but what's the custom setting under the presets? It seems to be greyed out in the videos? Is it where you enter a face code? Or can you customize a preset further? That gets ticked once you start editing a preset. It doesn't have any other options, unfortunately.
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velvetstraitjacket
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Post by velvetstraitjacket on Mar 15, 2017 17:08:28 GMT
Apart from the unfortunate hair situation, I thought the Inquisition CC was the best Bioware had ever done. I won't lie, it was hard to figure out at first, but once you got used to it, you could make some great characters that actually look like real people. The last one is my attempt at making Eva Green. In ME:A, you get to look like Caucasian #2 with different hair and clown make-up. Indeed. I thought it was the best one from Bioware too. I found myself liking the male CC better than the female one in Inquisition, tbh. I think all the female faces had some "unchangeable traits", while the male one was more open. Maybe it was just my imagination. With Andromeda, a find the opposite is true. But both are too limiting, unfortunately. I spent a full three days in the male CC ha ha. The preset I started with for my male Inquisitor looked nothing like in that picture I posted. I thought the female CC was good too. I just can't understand why they didn't go with the Inquisition CC. It's the same engine, and it would have saved them time, and all this scrutiny. I remember one of the devs said the Andromeda CC would be similar to Inquisition. Well, that was a lie, lol.
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Post by The Elder King on Mar 15, 2017 17:17:03 GMT
Indeed. I thought it was the best one from Bioware too. I found myself liking the male CC better than the female one in Inquisition, tbh. I think all the female faces had some "unchangeable traits", while the male one was more open. Maybe it was just my imagination. With Andromeda, a find the opposite is true. But both are too limiting, unfortunately. I spent a full three days in the male CC ha ha. The preset I started with for my male Inquisitor looked nothing like in that picture I posted. I thought the female CC was good too. I just can't understand why they didn't go with the Inquisition CC. It's the same engine, and it would have saved them time, and all this scrutiny. I remember one of the devs said the Andromeda CC would be similar to Inquisition. Well, that was a lie, lol. I don't think they did. They expecially stated there'll be differences because it'll be based on the same type of face customization the trilogy and DAO/DA2 had, instead of the one used in DAI. They did at least imply there'll be tons of options, which is untrue.
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velvetstraitjacket
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Post by velvetstraitjacket on Mar 15, 2017 17:20:31 GMT
I spent a full three days in the male CC ha ha. The preset I started with for my male Inquisitor looked nothing like in that picture I posted. I thought the female CC was good too. I just can't understand why they didn't go with the Inquisition CC. It's the same engine, and it would have saved them time, and all this scrutiny. I remember one of the devs said the Andromeda CC would be similar to Inquisition. Well, that was a lie, lol. I don't think they did. They expecially stated there'll be differences because it'll be based on the same type of face customization the trilogy and DAO/DA2 had, instead of the one used in DAI. They did at least imply there'll be tons of options, which is untrue. I remember a tweet, from Aaryn I think it was, saying that it will be similar to Inquisition, and that they weren't trying to reinvent the wheel. I'll have to go look for it. Edit: Here you go:
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adzi
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Post by adzi on Mar 15, 2017 17:22:48 GMT
I finally created a account so I can give my view on this.
I first played almost all bioware games cause they let us create the character we want but this one is masively disapointing, its so sad. And after watching all the videos with the character creation tool in it I didnt find any preset that fit me and the character I was pictured for months now. I like one preset but the brows and chin are afwull.
A previewer said earlier this month that the character creation tool was not as good as Inquisition but better than the old trilogy but she was so wrong, its way worse. I hope for a patch that will let us, at the very least choose different eyes, brows, nose and mouth separatively.
I also notice that the teeth seems to be part of the scans aswell.
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Post by adasirin on Mar 15, 2017 17:24:27 GMT
I think I've finally decided to hold-off on buying this game. I'm a huge fan of the OT and have been trying to remain optimistic throughout the promotional campaign, but this barebones character creator is the last straw for me, personally. I'll wait until either modders fix it or BioWare does (not holding my breath for that last one, despite what they've been saying on Twitter).
There is just so much that's missing from this CC. I personally think that cycling through eye/nose/mouth presets is a pretty lazy system from a design point of view. I'd much rather see a CC like Inquisition's, where you can mold faces more freely. Or a system with extensive and detailed sliders — eye angle, eyelid opening/closing for squinty or wide eyes, brow angle, eyebrow arch, the ability to change the size/height/width of the nose bridge, nose tip and nostrils separately, separate sliders for the top and bottom lip, mouth corner height, jaw height, general sliders for facial structure, etc. So I really can't fathom how this character creator doesn't even have basic eye/nose/mouth presets to cycle through, at the very least. It's like they picked the worst of both worlds and combined them: the most barebones collection of sliders imaginable and not even basic eye/nose/mouth presets to make up for it. It's stunning and bewildering.
All this talk of "face scans" being the reason for the limitations is infuriating. If the result of using face scans is the complete neutering and butchering of CC options, then don't use face scans. Why make that sacrifice? It's no secret that the ability to customise characters in meaningful ways is a huge part of the appeal for BioWare fans. Why would they think it wise to completely hobble that ability just in order to use face scans, which no one asked for in the first place? Do they seriously not understand their fanbase at all? And the face scans don't even look very good by today's standards. This isn't some Naughty Dog-level of facial realism and fidelity that we're seeing here. I don't see any benefits, only downsides.
Additionally, the fact that skin colour is tied to individual presets is ridiculous. Why can't I choose female preset 8 and make her a pale caucasian? What is the benefit of that limitation to anyone? And on top of everything I mentioned above: no eyebrow shape options, no eyebrow colour options, no complexion/freckles options, etc. How could BioWare think this CC is at all acceptable for a AAA game in 2017? This has essentially killed any excitement I had for this game. I really hope some clever modders out there can perform some miracles.
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Post by The Elder King on Mar 15, 2017 17:27:29 GMT
I don't think they did. They expecially stated there'll be differences because it'll be based on the same type of face customization the trilogy and DAO/DA2 had, instead of the one used in DAI. They did at least imply there'll be tons of options, which is untrue. I remember a tweet, from Aaryn I think it was, saying that it will be similar to Inquisition, and that they weren't trying to reinvent the wheel. I'll have to go look for it. Edit: Here you go: Thanks, didn't remember that. That's really stupid, to say things like that when they weren't, and so close to release it's really unlikely they had to cut things off.
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velvetstraitjacket
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Post by velvetstraitjacket on Mar 15, 2017 17:32:55 GMT
I remember a tweet, from Aaryn I think it was, saying that it will be similar to Inquisition, and that they weren't trying to reinvent the wheel. I'll have to go look for it. Edit: Here you go: Thanks, didn't remember that. That's really stupid, to say things like that when they weren't, and so close to release it's really unlikely they had to cut things off. No problem. Yeah, lies like that really don't help when most people already have so little confidence in them. And it didn't help that they waited until the final week to reveal the CC. If they would have revealed it much sooner, all this could have been avoided and the Day 1 patch could have included an improved CC. I'm curious to see if they'll actually add anything to it after all this criticism, but I remain skeptical.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2017 17:33:59 GMT
Indeed. I thought it was the best one from Bioware too. I found myself liking the male CC better than the female one in Inquisition, tbh. I think all the female faces had some "unchangeable traits", while the male one was more open. Maybe it was just my imagination. With Andromeda, a find the opposite is true. But both are too limiting, unfortunately. I spent a full three days in the male CC ha ha. The preset I started with for my male Inquisitor looked nothing like in that picture I posted. I thought the female CC was good too. I just can't understand why they didn't go with the Inquisition CC. It's the same engine, and it would have saved them time, and all this scrutiny. I remember one of the devs said the Andromeda CC would be similar to Inquisition. Well, that was a lie, lol. I agree completely. I think the first order of business is to read coordinates, X:Y, Inquisition style (to be able to save later), and let us customize from that, instead of this usual bar. Don't limit us with 10, 11 options, putting nose styles there (the white one, the black one, the asian one), and that's it. Let us customize them as well if we want to.
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Amirit
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Post by Amirit on Mar 15, 2017 17:34:36 GMT
I still can't believe that they didn't think about it. It's basic thing in CC. Ian actually responded to someone that the eyebrow were fix because they were using face scan (which means, eye shape, mouth and nose are fix for the same reasons) . So it's probably not that they didn't think of it, it's that they probably can't without removing the face scan and reverting to butt ugly custom characters. I'm afraid you are right - there is not way to fix that lousy excuse for CC. And they look so surprised pointed to obvious as if they truly did not know that 3 shades of pink for hair and clown make up do not make your character unique! I lost counts already of BW lying with smiles about bugs they try to sell for features. A game need a good director as much as movie does. The one who can see the whole picture, not one who understands only visuals, or only misic or something like that. Looks like it's director's crisis in the studio.
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Post by Gilsa on Mar 15, 2017 17:45:10 GMT
Question that may have already been answered but what's the custom setting under the presets? It seems to be greyed out in the videos? Is it where you enter a face code? Or can you customize a preset further? That gets ticked once you start editing a preset. It doesn't have any other options, unfortunately.
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adzi
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Post by adzi on Mar 15, 2017 17:47:29 GMT
Look at my profile picture from this video It seems like its from Scott's default face with the same eyes, exact face texture and stubble, so its means that we can customise it. The tools are here, its just like they are hidden from us. Look the faces of Gil and Suvi they are also made with the tool like every other humans characters in the nexus, the developpers just have to unlock theirs tools so we can our own character.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2017 17:49:28 GMT
Look at my profile picture from this video It seems like its from Scott's default face with the same eyes, exact face texture and stubble, so its means that we can customise it. The tools are here, its just like they are hidden from us. Look the faces of Gil and Suvi they are also made with the tool like every other humans characters in the nexus, the developpers just have to unlock theirs tools so we can our own character. Yes. The hair is the same, and I'm fairly certain we can customize the faces to look as closely as possible to the default.
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Post by brasspetal on Mar 15, 2017 17:51:18 GMT
They really should have let us edit the original Sara/Scott. I understand there are certain animation limitations but they've had a long time to figure it out now. I feel like they don't really understand how important CC is to some of us?
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Post by Panda on Mar 15, 2017 17:51:30 GMT
I still can't believe that they didn't think about it. It's basic thing in CC. Ian actually responded to someone that the eyebrow were fix because they were using face scan (which means, eye shape, mouth and nose are fix for the same reasons) . So it's probably not that they didn't think of it, it's that they probably can't without removing the face scan and reverting to butt ugly custom characters. All of my trilogy characters look better than any of those presets so butt ugly custom characters can't be that bad.
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Post by sosolaris on Mar 15, 2017 17:52:39 GMT
DISCLAIMER: I'm not trying to offend anyone or make this a representation issue. English isn't my first language and it's a little hard to find the words for what I'm trying to explain. Regarding femRyders: I just realized something odd. How are both of the asian faces lighter skinned than the blonde face. You could argue tan, but afaik asians tan too. As a northern-southern-european-mix who has dabbled in asian make-up, it's near impossible to find foundation light enough in asian brands, even when I'm tanned. Granted my experience is mainly with Korean brands and for all I know Japanese and Chinese are paler. I know there's a skintone slider but it's based on the preset's default skintone and I'm pretty sure your average natural blonde is going to be paler than your average East Asian. What I can see from presets basing on the matching mryder, there's 3x black, 2x East Asian, I guess Indian, Hispanic, blonde and I'm not sure what #2 is supposed to represent. While all the ethnicities could use some additional presets in this CC of lacking sliders. I am a bit offended that BW thought a tan fake blonde was enough to represent the multiple colors, tones and shapes even your stereotypical white person comes in. As a milk pale person with dark eyes and hair with thick eyebrows and hooded eyelids, I dont see myself being able to make a self-insert even if I wanted to. And I'm pretty typical when it comes to how Europeans look. The default Ryders are what the "light" presets should look like. Paleish skintone that matches multiple different hair and eyecolors with fairly generic facial features. I'd like to also bring up the ginger Suvi who looks plastic and doll like. It seems MEA is using a shader that makes lighter characters look bad unless extra time is spent on them (default Ryders, Cora, Alec). Now that I wrote this I'm wondering if I should even post. Someone is just going to take it the wrong way. Look, all I'm trying to say is that the blonde preset is terrible as the only "lighter" option. Don't worry Lots of people noticed this problem too. I'm sure the reply to this complaint will be "Just use the tone slider to get the pale skin you want!" See, that's the problem; This CC is boxing pale people into using one option since all the presets don't even have the same skin tone slider! Oh I didn't even notice this. Blegh. I dislike when skin tones are locked based on preset. Reminds me a bit of Division's CC. I don't think the facial scans and Alec matching our looks is worth the tradeoff of extra limitation.
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Post by elanor on Mar 15, 2017 17:53:08 GMT
Look at my profile picture from this video It seems like its from Scott's default face with the same eyes, exact face texture and stubble, so its means that we can customise it. The tools are here, its just like they are hidden from us. Look the faces of Gil and Suvi they are also made with the tool like every other humans characters in the nexus, the developpers just have to unlock theirs tools so we can our own character. I don't know. I remain sceptic until proven otherwise.
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Post by adzi on Mar 15, 2017 17:54:36 GMT
Look at my profile picture from this video It seems like its from Scott's default face with the same eyes, exact face texture and stubble, so its means that we can customise it. The tools are here, its just like they are hidden from us. Look the faces of Gil and Suvi they are also made with the tool like every other humans characters in the nexus, the developpers just have to unlock theirs tools so we can our own character. Yes. The hair is the same, and I'm fairly certain we can customize the faces to look as closely as possible to the default. Its the same lips textures and face, its seems like they just made the nose and the mouth bigger. He is not a playable character just a NPC.
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Post by Warrick on Mar 15, 2017 17:54:51 GMT
So it's a trade-off. Visual fidelity versus customization.
In GTA V it's the same. You can change hair, beard, and tattoos (i.e., stuff placed over a fixed face). Of course GTA is an action game without pretensions of role playing. I suppose it's the same for The Witcher 3 as well.
If it's impossible to have the cake and eat it too, then I'd prefer to sacrifice visual fidelity and have customization for role playing games.
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Post by elanor on Mar 15, 2017 17:55:23 GMT
CC is so bad that I'm not paying attention to hairstyles (which were my biggest concern before).
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Post by Gilsa on Mar 15, 2017 17:56:42 GMT
Gonna get interesting once the trial unlocks.
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Post by Panda on Mar 15, 2017 17:58:04 GMT
They really should have let us edit the original Sara/Scott. I understand there are certain animation limitations but they've had a long time to figure it out now. I feel like they don't really understand how important CC is to some of us? It really seems so. I'm baffled why they always seem so surprised when people complain about pretty obvious stuff like CC being very limited. Maybe they are so close the game that they have lost ability to judge it objectively?
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Post by elanor on Mar 15, 2017 18:00:18 GMT
Gonna get interesting once the trial unlocks. I don't really see the point of this site. All Ryders made from the same preset are going to be very similar to each other.
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Post by dis_Op2399 on Mar 15, 2017 18:02:03 GMT
The only hope I have for this abysmal situation is that there may well be a separate face generation system for all the many NPC humans in the rest of the game. Also the multiplayer humans look like they are based on something other than this CC. Where I'm unsure is if Ryder uses a unique facial rig that is only compatible with these 18 presets..? This being the "facial scan" reasoning we've seen so far. EDIT: adzi beat me to this logic
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