inherit
529
0
7,815
Nightscrawl
3,266
August 2016
nightscrawl
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Nightscrawl on Jan 8, 2017 21:05:02 GMT
Also Dorian's mother is named in WoT2 (Aquinea Thalrassian), just not in the game proper. Gah by Gomez! I've always found her name to be amusing as a World of Warcraft player where Thaurissan is a dwarven family name. Of course, Thalassian is also one of the elven languages, so... who the hell knows.
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1407
0
Sept 2, 2016 19:28:30 GMT
4,343
shechinah
Ser Barksalot - Hiatus
2,584
Sept 2, 2016 18:49:21 GMT
September 2016
shechinah
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by shechinah on Jan 8, 2017 21:10:27 GMT
Also Dorian's mother is named in WoT2 (Aquinea Thalrassian), just not in the game proper. Gah by Gomez! I've always found her name to be amusing as a world of Warcraft player where Thaurissan is a dwarven family name. Of course, Thalassian is also one of the elven languages, so... who the hell knows. I got reminded of Thassarian the Death Knight
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Resident Diplomat
526
0
8,896
Natashina
In lurking mode, playing the ME games.
2,340
August 2016
natashina
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights
16,553
19,139
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Post by Natashina on Jan 8, 2017 21:17:15 GMT
Thanks for the responses. Going over a few things I've read: I know why the BW writers keep doing it, but it has become extremely stale and they can be more creative than this. I did not count DLC-only party members, such as Finn. I wanted to stick with the companions and the PC, which are major characters in the games. The human Warden has their brother...that you see for a few minutes in the beginning and for a few minutes at the very end. The Warden mentions missing Fergus..twice? And one of the only times they try to talk about their family to Alistair, he immediately starts talking about Duncan. vertigomez My problem with your examples is that all of them take place largely off-screen. Show, don't tell. I'm sorry hun, but I will not consider Kieran as a potential family thread. The poor kid might not even exist! Hawke still has all but one of his/her family members that they care about killed. Hawke makes it clear that they don't care much for Gamlen except maybe out of pity. So Hawke has one family member, that might be alive, that they are close to. Good for that relationship, but it doesn't change that the rest of their close family dies. The excuse that it's a fantasy story set in the psudeo-Middle Ages is very poor. I don't see why or how that the family death count has to be that high. It's getting out of hand in my opinion. Even aside from the death count, most of these characters are at least estranged from their parents and often from the rest of their family. Third, I've seen the initial conversations with Cassandra 3xs in the last month. She makes it very clear that she does not care for her uncle. Her biggest reason was that he seemed to care more about the dead than the living. My takeaway has always been that she despises him for it. Yes, there is Charade and Gamlen reuniting. However, it's very late in DA2, neither of them are party members and it's entirely optional. They don't reunite without the player's help. What's more, you never really see Hawke taking part in that other than a brief cutscene. No interaction to speak of with them, just a cute letter from Charade. I did forget Zevran, and I didn't mean to. Another orphan and raised to be a honeytrap assassin. But I had also (ironically) forgotten what happened to the real Cole. Dad was abusive, mom was too angry/too afraid to defend her son and Cole might have accidentally killed his siter. Our Cole admits that the last might have just been the demon screwing with him, but the rest is true. Finally, I did mention that both parents are usually left unnamed by the character in the game itself. If both parents have names, you have to hunt down the Codex and/or WoT 2 to get it. That's bad storytelling for a video game imho. I'm not asking for all sunshines and roses. I wouldn't want that. What I want is something very simple. Here's an example with some made up names: Player: "What are you doing, Janis?" Janis: "Hmm? Oh, I'm writing a quick letter to my family." Player: "Oh? What's your family like?" Janis: "My father, Jack, is a blacksmith. My mother, Rebecca, is a baker. They are doing well, last I heard. They only ask they I write every now and then." Player: "Only child?" Janis: "No, I have an oldest sister up in the Free Marches. She married some noble merchant up there. We don't talk much. She's busy raising her family and I'm out here saving the world. Still, she told me that I could come to her whenever I need help." Player: "Well then, I'll let you get back to it." Boom. I just want this for one party member, a companion from the main series. No dead parents, no estranged or abusive family members. No freaking personal quests revolving around family issues. I'm not asking for much. I'd like a simple scene like the one I described above. Again, this kind of story telling isn't limited to the DA series. I would like to say that, despite my passion and obvious frustration over this, I'm enjoying the conversation. If I come off as a little strong, I do apologize for it.
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18,890
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5,281
August 2016
vertigomez
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Post by vertigomez on Jan 8, 2017 21:45:01 GMT
My point in mentioning the "positive" examples was more to highlight how few of them there are. I wasn't cutting Bioware any slack, I promise. That said, it's not an issue I'm invested in either way. The reason the writers do this is probably what Varric said: "If you love a character, you give them pain, ruin their lives, make them suffer." Ultimately, it's a cheap way to make them "interesting" and it allows for plot involvement without having to ask questions about where a character's family is and why they're not concerned about them when there are darkspawn afoot or demons falling out of the sky. It also makes them lonely and in need of hugs, and the second a character (especially a LI) gets woobified they're going to have fans out the wa and past the zoo. Natashina, your example conversation is pretty much what happened with Cullen. His sister wants him to write more, ribs him about it in a letter, you learn about the chess thing with his siblings... the only issue is that he's not on the road with you. Oh, and I forgot one more tragedy: Blackwall/Thom's baby sister died when she was a child.
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529
0
7,815
Nightscrawl
3,266
August 2016
nightscrawl
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Nightscrawl on Jan 8, 2017 21:45:20 GMT
I think Cassandra's case needs to be taken in toto, with also the voice acting as well. I think "despise" is too strong a word and generally do agree with the other posts that she seems estranged from him, but does have some non-negative feelings. What those are is anybody's guess. Perhaps even Cassandra herself couldn't articulate them fully.
I agree with the idea for party members, but not for the PC. I think the PC and followers need to be segregated for such a discussion because of the roleplay factor. In fact, my biggest problem with DAO and DA2 is that, in most origins (excepting the Dalish and Circle origin) the player is saddled with specific, named, family members. I don't want that at all. Even the lesser degree of the Dalish and Circle origins are too much because we see and interact with these people; they are still forced on us. I much preferred the DAI method where limited information was given and the player could decide on the relationship during a dialogue with Josephine. Other options may have additional bits, such as the mage getting a line with Vivienne about her mentor (now dead) and can say that "she was like a mother to me," but that is the player's choice.
And not sure if this was mentioned but... Cullen. He's not so much estranged as busy and sort of inconsiderate. You can certainly see that his sister cares for him. The post-Trespasser slide has a romanced/married Cullen visit his family with the Inquisitor and Dog.
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Friend of Red Jenny
90
0
18,890
vertigomez
5,281
August 2016
vertigomez
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Post by vertigomez on Jan 8, 2017 22:12:10 GMT
I agree with the idea for party members, but not for the PC. I think the PC and followers need to be segregated for such a discussion because of the roleplay factor. In fact, my biggest problem with DAO and DA2 is that, in most origins (excepting the Dalish and Circle origin) the player is saddled with specific, named, family members. I don't want that at all. Even the lesser degree of the Dalish and Circle origins are too much because we see and interact with these people; they are still forced on us. I much preferred the DAI method where limited information was given and the player could decide on the relationship during a dialogue with Josephine. Other options may have additional bits, such as the mage getting a line with Vivienne about her mentor (now dead) and can say that "she was like a mother to me," but that is the player's choice. See, and I hated that worst of all! I dislike having to headcanon everything, because for me it makes the player character seem less real. I hate that the only solid info I have on my Adaar pre-game is that she was a merc and her parents fled the Qun. I dislike not knowing if they're still alive, if they're both racially Qunari (or if her mom was pregnant and ran off with a viddathari or something). I don't like that the entirety of Cadash's past is, "I was in the Carta and grew up on the streets." With Brosca, I understood that life... Rica and Leske and your abusive mother gave context to who the Warden was and what motivated them. I disliked the Circle Mage origin because all we got was Jowan, and maybe Irving if you squint. I want the world to already exist around my character and for me to step into their shoes and react to it. So, you get your friendly sibling, asshole father, whatever... and then you decide whether you're protective of them, resentful, distant, etc. I have a good imagination and I know that I could make it all up myself, but I could also pretend the Warden was Loghain's long-lost daughter. Nothing in the story says that's not the case, but it still doesn't make it true. I get that it's all individual, though. Just adding my (terribly off-topic, sorry about that ) two cents.
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529
0
7,815
Nightscrawl
3,266
August 2016
nightscrawl
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Nightscrawl on Jan 8, 2017 22:20:16 GMT
I have a good imagination and I know that I could make it all up myself, but I could also pretend the Warden was Loghain's long-lost daughter. Nothing in the story says that's not the case, but it still doesn't make it true. I get that it's all individual, though. Just adding my (terribly off-topic, sorry about that ) two cents. Just want to respond to this part... I can't do that. I can't just disregard what the game presents to me because I think I've thought of something better. The game gives the Cousland PC a full family, so I feel compelled to go with that. I suppose it could possibly be a thing with the mage origin, but it's not something I would ever do. Actually we know that's not true either because the human mage is Amell. This is why I want that blank slate, so I don't have to feel invalidated in my headcanon by what the game gives me.
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The Good Drow
510
0
Apr 24, 2024 21:36:21 GMT
6,800
Gilli
Stuck in the Forgotten Realms
2,913
August 2016
gilli
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Gilli-chan
EMH-Bruce
2712
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Post by Gilli on Jan 8, 2017 22:21:39 GMT
Also Dorian's mother is named in WoT2 (Aquinea Thalrassian), just not in the game proper. Seb lost his two(?) brothers, as well. And even Hawke's surviving sibling can die. Oghren himself becomes a deadbeat dad by the time Awakening rolls around. Actually, I think it'd be easier to name the "happy" family relationships. Let's see... if Gamlen reunites with Charade, they're alright. A casteless Warden who puts Bhelen on the throne maintains a rock-solid relationship with Rica and presumably their nephew (mom's still horrible, though). Cousland still has Fergus, Mahariel's screwed if you kill their clan in DA2, Tabris can save their dad from slavery but depending on the epilogue slide Shianni might be murdered in addition to the brutality she suffered, and Hawke and the surviving sibling are still on pretty good terms if Legacy and DAI are anything to go by. Josephine's family is alive and well and she cares very deeply for them. Cullen's family is alive and well and he seems to be especially close to Mia. If Morrigan drinks from the Well, that complicates matters for a Warden who wanted a white-picket-fence happy family with her. And Kieran can potentially be Hawke's... second cousin? Or Anora's half-brother. Or the half-brother of a male Aeducan's other son. Or Fiona's grandson. So those are other family threads. Mahariel would still have Merrill. (The way Merrill talks about their friend, sounds like she considers them to be like an older sibling, at least it sounded like it to me. Only played DA2 once with my Dalish Warden save file tho. )
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Friend of Red Jenny
90
0
18,890
vertigomez
5,281
August 2016
vertigomez
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Post by vertigomez on Jan 8, 2017 22:26:35 GMT
I have a good imagination and I know that I could make it all up myself, but I could also pretend the Warden was Loghain's long-lost daughter. Nothing in the story says that's not the case, but it still doesn't make it true. I get that it's all individual, though. Just adding my (terribly off-topic, sorry about that ) two cents. Just want to respond to this part... I can't do that. I can't just disregard what the game presents to me because I think I've thought of something better. The game gives the Cousland PC a full family, so I feel compelled to go with that. I suppose it could possibly be a thing with the mage origin, but it's not something I would ever do. This is why I want that blank slate, so I don't have to feel invalidated in my headcanon by what the game gives me. I think we do the same thing, just on opposite ends because I can't disregard what the game gives me, either. Or rather, what it doesn't give me. So when no mention is ever made of my Inquisitor's parents or siblings and I have no idea what their childhood was like, I feel like they're just a blank blob that materialized out of nowhere.
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Friend of Red Jenny
90
0
18,890
vertigomez
5,281
August 2016
vertigomez
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Post by vertigomez on Jan 8, 2017 22:27:53 GMT
Also Dorian's mother is named in WoT2 (Aquinea Thalrassian), just not in the game proper. Seb lost his two(?) brothers, as well. And even Hawke's surviving sibling can die. Oghren himself becomes a deadbeat dad by the time Awakening rolls around. Actually, I think it'd be easier to name the "happy" family relationships. Let's see... if Gamlen reunites with Charade, they're alright. A casteless Warden who puts Bhelen on the throne maintains a rock-solid relationship with Rica and presumably their nephew (mom's still horrible, though). Cousland still has Fergus, Mahariel's screwed if you kill their clan in DA2, Tabris can save their dad from slavery but depending on the epilogue slide Shianni might be murdered in addition to the brutality she suffered, and Hawke and the surviving sibling are still on pretty good terms if Legacy and DAI are anything to go by. Josephine's family is alive and well and she cares very deeply for them. Cullen's family is alive and well and he seems to be especially close to Mia. If Morrigan drinks from the Well, that complicates matters for a Warden who wanted a white-picket-fence happy family with her. And Kieran can potentially be Hawke's... second cousin? Or Anora's half-brother. Or the half-brother of a male Aeducan's other son. Or Fiona's grandson. So those are other family threads. Mahariel would still have Merrill. (The way Merrill talks about their friend, sounds like she considers them to be like an older sibling, at least it sounded like it to me. Only played DA2 once with my Dalish Warden save file tho. )That's if Mahariel wants anything to do with her after the events of DA2.
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The Good Drow
510
0
Apr 24, 2024 21:36:21 GMT
6,800
Gilli
Stuck in the Forgotten Realms
2,913
August 2016
gilli
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Gilli-chan
EMH-Bruce
2712
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Post by Gilli on Jan 8, 2017 22:38:59 GMT
Mahariel would still have Merrill. (The way Merrill talks about their friend, sounds like she considers them to be like an older sibling, at least it sounded like it to me. Only played DA2 once with my Dalish Warden save file tho. )That's if Mahariel wants anything to do with her after the events of DA2. I can only talk about my Warden here, but in my (so far 2) PTs through DA2, her clan always survives. So it would be only the death of Marethari she would have to mourn.
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Andraste_Reborn
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 1,462 Likes: 6,318
inherit
469
0
6,318
Andraste_Reborn
1,462
August 2016
andrastereborn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Jan 9, 2017 0:19:50 GMT
I don't think this is a BioWare thing so much as a genre thing. If you look at other fantasy cRPGs with companions, like those made by Obsidian, you find similar ratios of dead brothers, abusive parents and entire clans wiped out leaving one member to seek revenge. For that matter, this kind of stuff is all over HareBrained Schemes Shadowrun campaigns as well. I can't speak to the backgrounds of the recent Fallout companions, as Bethesda games aren't really my thing, but I wouldn't be surprised to find that they're also a bunch of orphans and prodigal sons.
Game writers like these tropes because they're easy to build quests around. Should BioWare make more characters who have happy families? I certainly wouldn't mind seeing more like Cullen and Josephine (and Finn and Arianne!) where their problems revolve around something other than family, or their quest involves protecting their happy family from some outside threat.
Actually, Wynne is a quadruple whammy. The farmers that took her in weren't her biological relatives, they just found her in their barn. She doesn't remember her birth parents at all.
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PCthug
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 251 Likes: 846
inherit
200
0
Apr 24, 2024 14:49:13 GMT
846
PCthug
251
August 2016
pcthug
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by PCthug on Jan 9, 2017 0:28:40 GMT
I agree with the idea for party members, but not for the PC. I think the PC and followers need to be segregated for such a discussion because of the roleplay factor. In fact, my biggest problem with DAO and DA2 is that, in most origins (excepting the Dalish and Circle origin) the player is saddled with specific, named, family members. I don't want that at all. Even the lesser degree of the Dalish and Circle origins are too much because we see and interact with these people; they are still forced on us. I much preferred the DAI method where limited information was given and the player could decide on the relationship during a dialogue with Josephine. Other options may have additional bits, such as the mage getting a line with Vivienne about her mentor (now dead) and can say that "she was like a mother to me," but that is the player's choice. See, and I hated that worst of all! I dislike having to headcanon everything, because for me it makes the player character seem less real. I hate that the only solid info I have on my Adaar pre-game is that she was a merc and her parents fled the Qun. I dislike not knowing if they're still alive, if they're both racially Qunari (or if her mom was pregnant and ran off with a viddathari or something). I don't like that the entirety of Cadash's past is, "I was in the Carta and grew up on the streets." With Brosca, I understood that life... Rica and Leske and your abusive mother gave context to who the Warden was and what motivated them. I disliked the Circle Mage origin because all we got was Jowan, and maybe Irving if you squint. I want the world to already exist around my character and for me to step into their shoes and react to it. So, you get your friendly sibling, asshole father, whatever... and then you decide whether you're protective of them, resentful, distant, etc. I have a good imagination and I know that I could make it all up myself, but I could also pretend the Warden was Loghain's long-lost daughter. Nothing in the story says that's not the case, but it still doesn't make it true. I get that it's all individual, though. Just adding my (terribly off-topic, sorry about that ) two cents. I agree with this view. I work better, creativity wise, with restrictions placed on me so DAO (the magi origin is my least favorite as well) and especially DA2 worked for me. Not that I minded a ton with DAI but the Inquisitor did tend to feel a little unmoored from the world around them, compounded by the fact they weren't from the area the game took place.
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1274
0
3,016
sageoflife
1,412
August 2016
sageoflife
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by sageoflife on Jan 9, 2017 0:39:14 GMT
If we're including PCs, the human Inquisitor is also variable, although not to the extreme of the elf... Players have the option of telling Josephine that Trevelyan is not on good terms with the rest of their family for reasons left to the player's imagination. For example, a mage saying that can be interpreted as meaning that they were rejected for their magic and the family does not use its influence to keep in contact.
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ღ I am a golem. Obviously.
440
0
24,190
phoray
Dreadnaw Rising
12,573
August 2016
phoray
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by phoray on Jan 9, 2017 0:52:56 GMT
I wouldn't mind the Inquisitor's blank slate so much if we had more conversations like the one with Jose. No one tries to get to know the personal history of the Inquisitor, but her. Cullen also happens to generally be the only one asking how we're handling all the new changes. Cass asks about your religion and whether whereever you were before was considered "home." That it? We get to invade everyone else's privacy, but never do they get to ask invasively personal questions about us. We could be crafting our personal story as we went along, explaining out previous relationships, family or otherwise. Like Alistair asking if you're a virgin<- Hilarious either way you answer it. We ask Cullen about his family, he remarks that it's the first time they've ever gone talking without work coming up, but he never asks you about your family. Blank slates are fine if I get to craft as I go. But there is nothing to craft in Inquisition that isn't in my own head. I prefer Origins and DA2. I want family, even if they die tragically in game. But not like Clan LAvellan. That was lame. Why didn't we get the Lavellan clan instead of that nameless clan?
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inherit
Now Available As A Combo Meal!
984
0
16,408
dragontartare
Add a cookie for just $1.99 (plus tax)!
5,596
Aug 14, 2016 19:06:09 GMT
August 2016
dragontartare
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
DragonsALaMode
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Post by dragontartare on Jan 9, 2017 1:52:44 GMT
I wouldn't mind the Inquisitor's blank slate so much if we had more conversations like the one with Jose. No one tries to get to know the personal history of the Inquisitor, but her. Cullen also happens to generally be the only one asking how we're handling all the new changes. Cass asks about your religion and whether whereever you were before was considered "home." That it? We get to invade everyone else's privacy, but never do they get to ask invasively personal questions about us. We could be crafting our personal story as we went along, explaining out previous relationships, family or otherwise. Like Alistair asking if you're a virgin<- Hilarious either way you answer it. We ask Cullen about his family, he remarks that it's the first time they've ever gone talking without work coming up, but he never asks you about your family. Blank slates are fine if I get to craft as I go. But there is nothing to craft in Inquisition that isn't in my own head. I prefer Origins and DA2. I want family, even if they die tragically in game. But not like Clan LAvellan. That was lame. Why didn't we get the Lavellan clan instead of that nameless clan? Varric also asks how you're holding up. I agree otherwise, though. It really makes it feel like none of the other characters give a damn about the Inquisitor personally. A fact which is brought up in conversation with Varric, Harding, Bull, and maybe others that I'm forgetting. However, it's one thing for the rank and file to not give a damn about the Inquisitor as a person. But the party and the advisers? Even the LI? It makes me feel isolated as the Inquisitor when none of these people want to get to know them.
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ღ I am a golem. Obviously.
440
0
24,190
phoray
Dreadnaw Rising
12,573
August 2016
phoray
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by phoray on Jan 9, 2017 1:57:49 GMT
I wouldn't mind the Inquisitor's blank slate so much if we had more conversations like the one with Jose. No one tries to get to know the personal history of the Inquisitor, but her. Cullen also happens to generally be the only one asking how we're handling all the new changes. Cass asks about your religion and whether whereever you were before was considered "home." That it? We get to invade everyone else's privacy, but never do they get to ask invasively personal questions about us. We could be crafting our personal story as we went along, explaining out previous relationships, family or otherwise. Like Alistair asking if you're a virgin<- Hilarious either way you answer it. We ask Cullen about his family, he remarks that it's the first time they've ever gone talking without work coming up, but he never asks you about your family. Blank slates are fine if I get to craft as I go. But there is nothing to craft in Inquisition that isn't in my own head. I prefer Origins and DA2. I want family, even if they die tragically in game. But not like Clan LAvellan. That was lame. Why didn't we get the Lavellan clan instead of that nameless clan? Varric also asks how you're holding up. I agree otherwise, though. It really makes it feel like none of the other characters give a damn about the Inquisitor personally. A fact which is brought up in conversation with Varric, Harding, Bull, and maybe others that I'm forgetting. However, it's one thing for the rank and file to not give a damn about the Inquisitor as a person. But the party and the advisers? Even the LI? It makes me feel isolated as the Inquisitor when none of these people want to get to know them. Continuing the off topic: Now that I'm comparing this particular thing between the three games, do we really get that much in DA2? I think because, the story is so tight, and the characters limited so you see all the content pretty easy... it's easy for everyone to comment on Leandra's death, it happens no matter what. The loss of a sibling, to the Circle or death, happens no matter what. So they could make these dialogue references to help us feel rooted. It's too bad it made people feel trapped, though.
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Jun 21, 2021 22:15:41 GMT
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Somewhere, out there...
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August 2016
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Post by Artemis on Jan 9, 2017 18:12:08 GMT
I'm not asking for all sunshines and roses. I wouldn't want that. What I want is something very simple. Here's an example with some made up names: Player: "What are you doing, Janis?" Janis: "Hmm? Oh, I'm writing a quick letter to my family." Player: "Oh? What's your family like?" Janis: "My father, Jack, is a blacksmith. My mother, Rebecca, is a baker. They are doing well, last I heard. They only ask they I write every now and then." Player: "Only child?" Janis: "No, I have an oldest sister up in the Free Marches. She married some noble merchant up there. We don't talk much. She's busy raising her family and I'm out here saving the world. Still, she told me that I could come to her whenever I need help." Player: "Well then, I'll let you get back to it." To be quite honest, I would find this incredibly boring. vertigomez gave the example of Cullen; Cullen's whole family thing with his sister I just find so ho-hum. I could care less about Mia, and it makes me less interested in Cullen as a result. As vertigomez also points out, killing the parents / creating strife with the parents is just a common writing trope; I use it myself. I kill off parents all the time lol otherwise they don't really get mentioned, OR they themselves are major characters. Harry Potter is a good example: Harry: Parents are dead and step-parents are awful. Both these situations have a massive impact on his formation as a character. Hermione: Parents are living and homelife is fine. RARELY gets mentioned because it's boring and does not add to her character at all. Ron: Parents are living and are active characters in the narrative; their actions impact the story and thus they are interesting. I don't think BioWare are doing anything unusual here; I don't think it's necessarily fair to castigate them for doing what nearly all popular writers do.
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Resident Diplomat
526
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Natashina
In lurking mode, playing the ME games.
2,340
August 2016
natashina
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights
16,553
19,139
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Post by Natashina on Jan 9, 2017 18:36:19 GMT
Artemis Whereas I find it refreshing that Cullen keeps in touch with his family. It was a nice change of pace. I wouldn't mind seeing that again. For me, the family drama arc has gotten boring. I wouldn't want even most companions to be like my example, but having one every now and then is nice. I'd mentioned that this was a very common trend in fantasy stories. Plenty of authors I've loved over the years have used this method of character-buidling. I'm not trying to scold or berate BioWare at all. That wasn't my intent and again, I sure wouldn't keep buying their games if I didn't enjoy their story telling. I only feel that they're doing it too often. This isn't meant to be a slam on the writers or the company. I'm truly a fan, even if there are things I don't always care for. I want to also mention that many of those characters I listed are my favorites. I wouldn't go back and change how they are written, including their family stories. This is more of a suggestion based upon my opinion for the future. Part of it is that I'm really sick of the trope in general. I would want at least a companion or two per game with a decent family life. It would be immersion breaking if everyone had a happy family all the time, but for me, it's a little immersion breaking seeing this trope used this much. I'm also not claiming that I'm right and BioWare is wrong. Nor is BioWare special in this regard. I am asking them to ease up a bit though.
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inherit
Champion of Kirkwall
1212
0
8,023
Sifr
3,737
Aug 25, 2016 20:05:11 GMT
August 2016
sifr
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Sifr on Jan 9, 2017 19:00:36 GMT
Flemeth told to Hawke. "I'm not sure, whether she's your daughter or your enemy." "Neither is she."And Morrigan also said in DAO. Perhaps not directly, but somehow I never thought, that Morrigan's Flemeth biological daughter. Not because Flemeth seems old. I'd have to disagree about that serving as confirmation. Note that Flemeth's response is specifically: "Neither is she" meaning Morrigan is not sure whether she's Flemeth's daughter or her enemy. That does not mean that Flemeth is not Morrigan's biological mother, merely that Morrigan is not sure that she is. I believe this is the same case for Morrigan's dialogue about it in Origins.
Yeah, Morrigan does briefly raise the possibility that Flemeth might have kidnapped her as an infant, in reference to the rumour that Witches of the Wild go about stealing children, although Flemeth denies this when Aveline mentions it in DA2, stating she has "better things to do". The more likely explanation is Flemeth is her biological mother and Morrigan's father was one of the many Chasind men that Flemeth took to her bed. Morrigan also briefly mentions that she has memories of seeing a much younger Flemeth who more resembled her and shared her dark hair, but she cannot explain how that can be, if she's supposed to be centuries old. That fellow Witch of the Wilds Yavana looks like Morrigan, probably makes it safe to conclude Flemeth was their real mother.
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inherit
1407
0
Sept 2, 2016 19:28:30 GMT
4,343
shechinah
Ser Barksalot - Hiatus
2,584
Sept 2, 2016 18:49:21 GMT
September 2016
shechinah
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by shechinah on Jan 9, 2017 19:24:15 GMT
That fellow Witch of the Wilds Yavana looks like Morrigan, probably makes it safe to conclude Flemeth was their real mother. Unless there's a really unfortunate pair of parents somewhere in Thedas that Flemeth keeps literally cradle robbing from.
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inherit
813
0
Jun 26, 2019 23:40:38 GMT
5,054
thats1evildude
2,478
August 2016
thats1evildude
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by thats1evildude on Jan 9, 2017 19:33:53 GMT
I don't think this is a BioWare thing so much as a genre thing. If you look at other fantasy cRPGs with companions, like those made by Obsidian, you find similar ratios of dead brothers, abusive parents and entire clans wiped out leaving one member to seek revenge. It's not even specific to the fantasy genre. Look at Star Wars: Anakin-Mom enslaved, killed by Tusken Raiders Luke and Leia-Mom died in childbirth, Dad is Darth Vader, adoptive parents killed Rey-Parents apparently abandoned her Finn-Child solider Jyn Erso-Mom killed by Empire, Dad pressed into service working on Death Star (that's in the trailers, so not a spoiler) For that matter, name three superheroes other than Superman who has a good relationship with their living parents.
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inherit
529
0
7,815
Nightscrawl
3,266
August 2016
nightscrawl
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Nightscrawl on Jan 9, 2017 20:37:38 GMT
Do we even know about the parents/family of a majority of super heroes? I mean, there are tons of them around in both major publishers. Typically, if there is no reason to mention family, either as a source of angst or as a source of characterization -- "I would die to protect my family," etc -- then there isn't a reason for them to be mentioned at all.
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inherit
813
0
Jun 26, 2019 23:40:38 GMT
5,054
thats1evildude
2,478
August 2016
thats1evildude
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by thats1evildude on Jan 9, 2017 20:58:47 GMT
Do we even know about the parents/family of a majority of super heroes? I mean, there are tons of them around in both major publishers. Typically, if there is no reason to mention family, either as a source of angst or as a source of characterization -- "I would die to protect my family," etc -- then there isn't a reason for them to be mentioned at all. Well, let's just go by the heroes who have appeared in the MCU. (I'm leaving off those heroes who don't have parents because they're a robot or a tree or something, as well as the Punisher because he isn't "super" or a hero, really.) Captain America- Parents are long dead Tony Stark - Parents are dead; killed by (SPOILERS!!!) Thor- Father is alive, mother killed by dark elves, adopted brother is his archenemy Spider-Man - Parents are dead; adopted by Aunt May and Uncle Ben; Uncle Ben dead Black Widow - Raised as assassin by KGB Scarlet Witch-Whole family is dead Black Panther- Father killed by Zemo, though he grew up in a good environment Hulk -Unknown (though the Ang Lee movie gave him MAJOR father issues) Star Lord - Mom died from cancer; dad is alive (appearing in GotG2) Gamora- Parents dead; killed by Thanos Ant-Man- Unknown; separated from family Falcon-Unknown, though in the comics his parents were killed by muggers Jessica Jones- Parents dead; killed in accident Luke Cage - Estranged from parents, but sweet Christmas, his family has issues Daredevil- Father killed by gangsters Dr. Strange - Dead in the comics, though admittedly he grew up in a fairly stable environment Quake- Mom was a supervillain and is now dead; dad was a supervillain and had his memory wiped Ghost Rider- Raised by uncle, who turned out to be evil Hawkeye - unknown, but is happily married with children As for DC comics, I think it would be easier to sum it up with one image: .
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inherit
The Good Drow
510
0
Apr 24, 2024 21:36:21 GMT
6,800
Gilli
Stuck in the Forgotten Realms
2,913
August 2016
gilli
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Gilli-chan
EMH-Bruce
2712
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Post by Gilli on Jan 9, 2017 21:40:56 GMT
Hulk -Unknown (though the Ang Lee movie gave him MAJOR father issues) *clears throat and straightens glasses* Brian Banner was an abusive father, who killed his own wife, Rebecca Banner, when Bruce was 8 years old, then blamed Bruce. <- not sure about the issue, but judging from the Art it's from Greg Pak's Hulk run <-- same as above 15 years later Bruce Banner killed his father in self-defense - The Incredible Hulk #-1 (1997) - The Incredible Hulk #-1 (1997) Also Hulk is able to see ghosts because of his fear that his father could come back. - The Incredible Hulk #-1 (1997) In short: Incredible Father issues.
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