The Awakening Wardens Brigade

That's true of my Cousland as well, thus saving Nath seemed fair. In the eyes of society becoming a Warden is a great honour. Because they want new recruits - this is a myth the Wardens are working on preserving in fact. Mhirin is eager to dedicate her life to it and even Cailan seemed like he wished to be a Warden. (On aside note: I find it strange though that although the Warden's viewed him as number one ally, Duncan still never shared any information with the King. There are people after all who know warden secrets without being wardens. ;/)

In any case what if Nath actually hadn't changed his mind and his plan had succeeded? At the very least he would have assassinated Warden-Commander and screwed the Wardens again worse than AD while at it since the Wardens once again face annihilation in Ferelden. Not to mention as a human noble it is possible you are the Queen/King of Ferelden. Nice ninja move murdering a royal person after a huge period of instability while the country is in dire need of a central power. All because he couldn't check his facts before sharpening the knives.

Nath crawls out of the bog. Doesn't know nothing about anything. His first thought is 'I'll just murder top ranking Warden and possible Queen/King of Ferelden.' Yep, no respect points for him at that stage in the game. That is not to say I do not respect him later. But, first meeting did make me consider the execution.

It's a logical reason, just as killing Zevran.
Accepting Zevran's offer, especially sleep with him, that was riskier. And Nate seems too honest to assassinating him. It could be foolish, but somehow he was reliable.
As Queen/Prince consort even risky to join to every single battle, don't forget. One more or less risk, no matter, I suppose.

Perhaps as an outsider, to be Warden seems a great honor, but as a Warden isn't that simple. There are good and bad parts of the Warden existence. Why so big secret the joining ritual for example? So: no. This is not a reward.

The Warden not really was a nobody when Zevran wants to kill him/her. The Warden was important enough for Loghain, the regent of Ferelden, to hire an expensive assassin to kill him/her. And s/he knew, that at the moment s/he and Alistair who able to gather an army against the Blight. More important than a simple Queen/Prince consort.

Nathaniel has a reason to try killing the Warden, he didn't know, what his Father did. If Warden doesn't interest about his motivation, and didn't tell him, what happened, I suppose, he insists his plan. (I don't played Awakening long time ago, I just remembered, that I never found him hostile, only at the first moments.)

Why matter, that to be Warden isn't a reward? Because this can be a penalty too... depending on the viewpoint.

1. I didn't speak about the personal safety: I spoke about the Warden and Prince/Queen consort importance.
I think the joining of Nathaniel is not some redemption problem: he did nothing yet just went home, and with this act, he violated a private property, and he wanted to kill the Warden, who killed his Father... or at least to steal back his heirloom's pieces. So: he's law-breaker, but he still does not need redemption. The point is: the Warden can see him as important, talented person, or not. Wants to practice mercy, or just wants to kill him, because of think, that he's dangerous.

2. My Wardens always found him more interesting than just to condemn him to death without question. He's the son of Rendon Howe. This would a reason to kill him, but even the Warden could think, that it is worth to investigate his causes.

3. One view point is: as I said: he's a law-breaker, but reasonable. So, perhaps he deserves punishment, but not DEATH punishment, AND ignore his law-breaking act or not: he seems talented and useful.

What about Anders? You can see him as a dangerous apostate, who killed a bunch of Templars... Nathaniel just a rogue.

Don't get me wrong, this is only theoretical, I know, you didn't kill Nathaniel, only I want to see another viewpoint.  (I very rarely play as lawful. Somehow doesn't like that. Neutral or chaotic is my type.)

So, let see, what we have:
Yes, as a lawful Warden, you have point, the Warden clearly sees him as a criminal.
As a chaotic/neutral Warden not so judgmental:
Theft: his own stuff
Resisting? Who wants to be prisoner
Refusing to cooperate? That seems not a big sin.
Wants to speak only with the Warden? This is what makes him more interesting.
So: as a neutral/chaotic, you can see a skilled, but stubborn man, who doesn't respect everything, what/who doesn't earn his respect enough – just as yourself.

But if the Warden's lawful, Anders is a lawbreaker too. And among the Dark Spawn, there are Mages too. And the Templar corpses could be burned. And an experienced mage could have so many spells, not only fire balls. How Warden knows, that Anders' not a blood mage, for example. In this case, the Templars could kill each other.

Perhaps, your opinion about Nate is unpopular, not totally illogical. The Warden doesn't know Nathaniel, just as Anders. The Warden's verdict only depend on his/her viewpoint.
Back to Anders:
Warden doesn't know, that Anders' a spirit healer, when s/he met with him. He just sees an apostate, in the Vigil's Keep (Anders told that immediately).
S/he can't be sure, that the Templars or the Darkspawns were there first.
S/He didn't know, that Anders' a good man. Why? Because he's charming? Many people's charming AND evil.
I didn't say, that the lawful Warden should execute him, rather give him to the Templars.
I didn't say, that lawful GOOD, I just said: lawful. (In DA the lawful and good seems an oxymoron to me: to be real good, in DA the character must be lawbreaker)

Not really. Anders' is a "wanted Apostate", so: he's a proven criminal, what he doesn't deny. The Templar Women told, that he's a murderer. The Wardens have right to conscript him, of course. Just as Nathaniel. 
And what I said: Nathaniel doesn't look more dangerous, than Anders. This was the start point to me. And he doesn't need more redemption, than Anders. (Anders also not an invited guest in the Vigil's Keep.)

Yes, to kill Anders at the moment is unjust. – Just as Nathaniel.
Allow him to run away as a mage, who helped to Jowan is a very logical decision. But yes, as a more lawful/less mage character, better to stay near the Warden, not only because he's a former prisoner, but even because he seems useful. – Just as Nathaniel.

But Nathaniel just came into the fortress and tried to steal his own stuff. This is not a big sin. So executing him seems unjust. – Just as Anders. To punish him, isn't unjust – just as Anders.
The Warden in the Keep HAS jurisdiction to punish an intruder. Anders is a wanted Apostate intruder. The fact, that Anders' is a wanted Apostate intruder (criminal) is proved.

Not really. Anders' is a "wanted Apostate", so: he's a proven criminal, what he doesn't deny.

Whoops... Shoot. I forgot to explain. By 'guilt speculation,' I meant whether Anders killed those Templars or not, not about him being an apostate. But, apostate thing is Templar jurisdiction. The Warden could have acted only if he came in and saw Anders killing a Templar.

btw (Unless I don't remember correctly) When dealing with Nathaniel you aren't given an option to leave him in jail - which seems like the most reasonable punishment for his crime. It's the choice between two extremes - let him go or kill him. The Warden creates a 3rd option that initially he isn't presented with, that's the closest to the middle ground, by recruiting.


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If we take a look at the trial and three options though, Nath does his best to bury himself in.

Option 1: Let him go.

Nathaniel: I hate you! I'm not sorry for my actions! If you let me go I will try to rob you again and possibly go back to the idea of killing you!

Option 2: Recruit him.

Nathaniel: Have I mentioned that I hate you and the Wardens even more? Well I hate you and the Wardens! I will NEVER help you. I rather die than be a Warden!

Option 3: Execute him.

Well... I can't do 1 because I can't release non repenting criminal into the world and he is dead set against 2.

Er... I never accused Nath of murdering guards.

And the joining ritual's very dangerous, maybe a death sentence.

Everyone else no matter how bad is willing to undergo it. Nath doesn't wish to. That's a huge and fundamental difference that makes it hard to choose recruiting him. Also, I don't believe this option even pops up until you call back the Captain. Your Warden is essentially forced into options life/death. Only when you say 'I know what to do' is when the recruiting thing shows up. So, in deciding you don't even know that the game will allow you to do that unless you've read wiki. Mind you that was my 1st play through. Nath could have been not recruitable hero but more like Jowan or even like Sophia/demons. Every time you negotiate with a guilty npc, you have to weight out the consequences of letting them go in DA.

Everyone is like well he's recruitable hero it's stupid to waste him and then he becomes this great guy. How would you know if it's your first time playing? As far as I know if I let him go in the epilogue he'll run off and establish an assassin guild that would harass the Keep and Amaranthene to get revenge on the Warden. And personal shaded grudge that makes you assume the worst of him - he's a Howe! Bad genes right there to murder more families.


Warden can see him dangerous, and murderer

Didn't say the Warden doesn't see him as dangerous, just willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Not murderer as no proof - but dangerous for sure. Don't make my Warden sound like he jumped for joy every time and said hurray more heroes for my team. Him allowing any of those shady characters on the team came after I went through every dialogue option and considered it carefully. And I have considered rejecting some. Recruiting Sten, Shale, Zevran, Loghain (who else did I miss) it all comes at a risk. With Anders its another risk where you are mostly pushed into putting your trust into that person as other options are even less desirable for the Warden.

As for the separate situation whether Anders had killed those Templars or not.

From a court and trial point - no fair judge will accept as conclusive evidence a story. "Well I ran into this room. There were darkspawn corpses with Templar weapon marks on them and Templar corpses with darkspawn weapon inflicted wounds on them. And this guy was in the middle of killing darkspawn. So... I figure this guy was guilty of killing all those Templars..." No witness had seen who killed who in that situation.

From my PERSONAL point of view whether to take Anders' word for it or not, my Warden is more inclined to believe Anders.

S/He didn't know, that Anders' a good man. Why? Because he's charming? Many people's charming AND evil.

Charming is not how my Warden would have described his attitude at that point. It was more like desperate bitterness covered by sarcasm. Anders is used to being assumed automatically guilty no matter whether its true or not. Sarcasm is used to laugh at his jailers bias because there is nothing more he can do about it. They will decide his punishment on the 'guilty without the need to prove innocence' basis no matter what. At least the Templars always immediately assume the worst of him with no evidence.

So in this situation Anders is saying, You'll automatically presume I'm evil no matter what I say.

And the Warden points out that he is an outside party in that conflict and prefers to withhold judgement until he gets more information.

More edit: This whole situation with Nath is just bogus to me precisely because he hates the Wardens so much and says he doesn't want to help them. While it is in the Warden's power to force the goblet down his throat that doesn't mean Nath has to stay after the content was delivered and he didn't die in horrible convulsions. It would have made more sense for him to leave and re-appear later in the game even if he's recruited immediately. You could reason pragmatically that if you get recruited for a club, even involuntarily, that it might be best to stick around to learn their rules, but Nath is not guided by pragmatism at that point, he's guided by emotions and hate. Seems like he immediately stays for no other pleasure than to glare evil holes in our Warden.

+ Psshh Come to think of it - I've always recruited him. I need to try letting Nath go and seeing whether he comes back. Haven't tried that option.

We were discussing how Nath behaves during a single point in time when he's imprisoned and how based on that specific behavior my Warden considered execution. This reaction is after he had time to think about it. I never said I did not grow to respect Nath as the story progresses. However, I still do not feel that fangirling or lets bond and be buddy buddy thing.

Also, leaving him in the upgraded Keep gives you an ending where he survives and gets carried on his comrade's shoulders while being hailed a hero if you leave him at the Keep. BTW this ending was obtained on my 1st Warden who considered the execution. Da joke is on Nath who realized that his and my Warden's values were in fact the same after bitching at him and then very quickly getting to 100.

know nothing about the reasons

Yes. It sure doesn't hurt to learn the reasons before sharpening the knives.

Oh Anders is funny. That's why sarcasm are excellent means of diversion and he's by far not the first to employ it in DA. You just have to keep in mind the darker undertones to his humor.

I suppose he should also be given an excuse due to his tragic background. It's obvious Nath's grandmother is the scariest villain in DA.

Speaking of which, I DEMAND a punishment option for R. Howe to tie him up and send to his mom for inspection instead of stabbing him. See if he can get smart mouthed about that.