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Post by Element Zero on Dec 11, 2017 4:44:00 GMT
Life Is Strange : Before The Storm. I believe that's episode one. Although I could be mistaken about that. Could be episode two. Episode 3 should be coming pretty soon, too. Episode 2. It's the full romance version with the extended kiss. And a very real romance it feels too, as did Max and Chloe's in the first one. Hence my point above. What puzzles me is why people get fixated on one scene out of thousands. It's like me judging the whole of ME2 on how femshep talks to Jacob. I don't think it's a matter of fixating on any one scene. The game, and Sara Ryder in particular, had a lot of cringeworthy dialogue. You may not feel that way, but many people do. The silly dialogue often clashes with and undermines the tone of the scenes in which it appears. At other times, it's just terrible in general, like the optional exchange between Sara and Suvi.
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Post by alanc9 on Dec 11, 2017 6:00:34 GMT
Episode 2. It's the full romance version with the extended kiss. And a very real romance it feels too, as did Max and Chloe's in the first one. Hence my point above. What puzzles me is why people get fixated on one scene out of thousands. It's like me judging the whole of ME2 on how femshep talks to Jacob. I don't think it's a matter of fixating on any one scene. The game, and Sara Ryder in particular, had a lot of cringeworthy dialogue. You may not feel that way, but many people do. The silly dialogue often clashes with and undermines the tone of the scenes in which it appears. At other times, it's just terrible in general, like the optional exchange between Sara and Suvi. But saying that scenes are cringeworthy doesn't say anything important. Is anybody even denying that?The Suvi scene is manifestly cringeworthy by design, and I'll bet that's true of most if not all of the others (For me it's all, but mileages are going to vary on that.)
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 11, 2017 6:07:52 GMT
I really liked that scene. Better than the sexual predator scenes that made up most of Shepard's flirts.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 11, 2017 6:08:33 GMT
I really liked that scene. Better than the sexual predator scenes that made up most of Shepard's flirts. lol lol "We'll bang, ok?"
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Post by Element Zero on Dec 11, 2017 6:35:03 GMT
I don't think it's a matter of fixating on any one scene. The game, and Sara Ryder in particular, had a lot of cringeworthy dialogue. You may not feel that way, but many people do. The silly dialogue often clashes with and undermines the tone of the scenes in which it appears. At other times, it's just terrible in general, like the optional exchange between Sara and Suvi. But saying that scenes are cringeworthy doesn't say anything important. Is anybody even denying that?The Suvi scene is manifestly cringeworthy by design, and I'll bet that's true of most if not all of the others (For me it's all, but mileages are going to vary on that.) I'm not sure whether anyone is denying it, to be honest. I dropped into the thread, saw a post I seemed to disagree with and offered an alternative view. It seemed that vonuber was suggesting that this single scene is the crux of an argument. Having looked at the last couple of pages, I saw no such thing. Also, I didn't say that this single scene is cringeworthy. I said that many scenes are. That's why this one scene need not be a focus. If I'm off-topic, oops, I guess.
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Post by Element Zero on Dec 11, 2017 6:38:11 GMT
I really liked that scene. Better than the sexual predator scenes that made up most of Shepard's flirts. Those Shepard scenes were poor. Hale's overacting and creeper delivery went a long way toward ruining FemShep for me. When I hear the awkwardness apparent in the Sara/Suvi exchange, I feel uncomfortable and awkward on behalf of the person embarrassing themself. It's not a good dynamic for a player and protagonist.
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Post by goishen on Dec 11, 2017 6:38:27 GMT
Life Is Strange : Before The Storm. I believe that's episode one. Although I could be mistaken about that. Could be episode two. Episode 3 should be coming pretty soon, too. Episode 2. It's the full romance version with the extended kiss. And a very real romance it feels too, as did Max and Chloe's in the first one. Hence my point above. What puzzles me is why people get fixated on one scene out of thousands. It's like me judging the whole of ME2 on how femshep talks to Jacob. I dunno. I asked her to give me her bracelet, because that just feels... I dunno, more personal I guess? I dunno, it just feels like sex is just an obstacle that we have to get around, and we have varying points of view on this depending on whether we are female or male. For example, males always wanna see two chicks make out. Females, I dunno. Maybe a female can take over from here.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 11, 2017 6:41:09 GMT
I really liked that scene. Better than the sexual predator scenes that made up most of Shepard's flirts. Those Shepard scenes were poor. Hale's overacting and creeper delivery went a long way toward ruining FemShep for me. When I hear the awkwardness apparent in the Sara/Suvi exchange, I feel uncomfortable and awkward on behalf of the person embarrassing themself. It's not a good dynamic for a player and protagonist. Unless you've been there.
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Post by smilesja on Dec 11, 2017 6:42:52 GMT
Episode 2. It's the full romance version with the extended kiss. And a very real romance it feels too, as did Max and Chloe's in the first one. Hence my point above. What puzzles me is why people get fixated on one scene out of thousands. It's like me judging the whole of ME2 on how femshep talks to Jacob. I don't think it's a matter of fixating on any one scene. The game, and Sara Ryder in particular, had a lot of cringeworthy dialogue. You may not feel that way, but many people do. The silly dialogue often clashes with and undermines the tone of the scenes in which it appears. At other times, it's just terrible in general, like the optional exchange between Sara and Suvi. Where is thisn”many people” you talk about? Considering that MET had its cringeworthy dialogue.
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Post by goishen on Dec 11, 2017 6:44:39 GMT
I don't think it's a matter of fixating on any one scene. The game, and Sara Ryder in particular, had a lot of cringeworthy dialogue. You may not feel that way, but many people do. The silly dialogue often clashes with and undermines the tone of the scenes in which it appears. At other times, it's just terrible in general, like the optional exchange between Sara and Suvi. Where is thisn”many people” you talk about? Considering that MET had its cringeworthy dialogue. Look dude, you really don't want me to compare MEA with MET, because the MET will come off looking like fucking Shakespeare.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 11, 2017 6:46:59 GMT
I really liked that scene. Better than the sexual predator scenes that made up most of Shepard's flirts. Those Shepard scenes were poor. Hale's overacting and creeper delivery went a long way toward ruining FemShep for me. When I hear the awkwardness apparent in the Sara/Suvi exchange, I feel uncomfortable and awkward on behalf of the person embarrassing themself. It's not a good dynamic for a player and protagonist. Mark Meer's lines were also bad. For pretty much every romance, the flirts by both John and Jane were very uncomfortable. As for the Sara/Suvi flirts, I found them to be rather adorable.
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Post by river82 on Dec 11, 2017 6:48:56 GMT
What Artemis posted in another thread was right. Andromeda shifted away from ME:T in a number of areas but narrative tone is an often overlooked one. ME:T was serious space opera, ME:Andromeda is the science fiction equivalent of ... urban fantasy.
While this isn't by itself a bad thing, when the established audience of these games are expecting a continuation of the norm presenting something completely different with little to no warning doesn't really get you into the good books of your audience. Which brings me back to a common complaint I have with recent Bioware, and that is I wish they would stop completely changing their style from one entry of a series to the next.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 11, 2017 6:50:12 GMT
1. I think I have mentioned this before but the only lines of dialogue I found cringeworthy in Andromeda, as in lol for the wrong reasons, are the whole Nilken Rensus conversation testimony thing. "Argh! Ugh! Evacuate! etc!"
I didn't think a lot of Fem or Bro Shep's lines were too cringeworthy, there were a couple of exceptions obviously...like 'talking to Jacob' made Abigail into the borderine...er flirt...she is. But I still maintain this is BioWare trying to give people different types of romances depending on who they romance. Some people just like their 'sexy' romances and some people like their super nerdy awkward romances. I seem to like romances in which the two characters have to complete and heal one another. (Miranda...Cora...Cullen...James...why was James not a romance FCOL?!)
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Post by goishen on Dec 11, 2017 6:50:52 GMT
ME:T was serious space opera, ME:Andromeda is the science fiction equivalent of ... fantasy. FTFY. Suvi : ice and water lady. As if we don't know about temperatures in the twenty second century. As if it magically changes somehow, as if.... BY THE GODDESS! Fuck that.
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Post by Element Zero on Dec 11, 2017 6:53:59 GMT
I don't think it's a matter of fixating on any one scene. The game, and Sara Ryder in particular, had a lot of cringeworthy dialogue. You may not feel that way, but many people do. The silly dialogue often clashes with and undermines the tone of the scenes in which it appears. At other times, it's just terrible in general, like the optional exchange between Sara and Suvi. Where is thisn”many people” you talk about? Considering that MET had its cringeworthy dialogue. I wasn't comparing it to the MET. Hanako did that. I spoke of MEA on its own. I happen to agree that the trilogy had some facepalms. They just weren't as bad or plentiful as MEA's, for me. Do you truly disagree that many feel MEA had too much cheesy dialogue? You've spent enough time here, and maybe elsewhere, to know that many do feel exactly this way. I'm not sure why you'd even dispute this. Acknowledging it doesn't invalidate your own opinion.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 11, 2017 6:54:41 GMT
What Artemis posted in another thread was right. Andromeda shifted away from ME:T in a number of areas but narrative tone is an often overlooked one. ME:T was serious space opera, ME:Andromeda is the science fiction equivalent of ... urban fantasy. While this isn't by itself a bad thing, when the established audience of these games are expecting a continuation of the norm presenting something completely different with little to no warning doesn't really get you into the good books of your audience. Which brings me back to a common complaint I have with recent Bioware, and that is I wish they would stop completely changing their style from one entry of a series to the next. I don't now about that. the MET was just as much of a grand adventure then Andromeda was. Andromeda just told more jokes. Granted I am unsure what you mean by serious science fiction but a universe which has things like synthesis in it is not something I consider serious science fiction. (Though I suppose it could be argued it was pretty serious until that moment).
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Post by Element Zero on Dec 11, 2017 6:57:45 GMT
Those Shepard scenes were poor. Hale's overacting and creeper delivery went a long way toward ruining FemShep for me. When I hear the awkwardness apparent in the Sara/Suvi exchange, I feel uncomfortable and awkward on behalf of the person embarrassing themself. It's not a good dynamic for a player and protagonist. Unless you've been there. I'd think that would make it worse. Everyone has, at some point, embarrassed themself. I'd not wish my moment on another, nor wish to see it reproduced in a video game. I definitely don't want the protagonist being undermined by too many facepalms. To each their own. Like I said, it's not just that one scene. There are lots of silly moments. They don't sit well with some of us. I like the game, and will likely start a new PT this week. I still cringe over far too much of its writing and VA.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 11, 2017 6:59:25 GMT
What Artemis posted in another thread was right. Andromeda shifted away from ME:T in a number of areas but narrative tone is an often overlooked one. ME:T was serious space opera, ME:Andromeda is the science fiction equivalent of ... urban fantasy. While this isn't by itself a bad thing, when the established audience of these games are expecting a continuation of the norm presenting something completely different with little to no warning doesn't really get you into the good books of your audience. Which brings me back to a common complaint I have with recent Bioware, and that is I wish they would stop completely changing their style from one entry of a series to the next. I don't now about that. the MET was just as much of a grand adventure then Andromeda was. Andromeda just told more jokes. Granted I am unsure what you mean by serious science fiction but a universe which has things like synthesis in it is not something I consider serious science fiction. (Though I suppose it could be argued it was pretty serious until that moment). I'd argue Mass Effect was always a science fantasy over science fiction, but it really stopped being a serious science fiction with ME2 when they threw out things like the laws of physics for the Rule of Cool/Sexy.
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Post by smilesja on Dec 11, 2017 7:02:31 GMT
Those Shepard scenes were poor. Hale's overacting and creeper delivery went a long way toward ruining FemShep for me. When I hear the awkwardness apparent in the Sara/Suvi exchange, I feel uncomfortable and awkward on behalf of the person embarrassing themself. It's not a good dynamic for a player and protagonist. Mark Meer's lines were also bad. For pretty much every romance, the flirts by both John and Jane were very uncomfortable. As for the Sara/Suvi flirts, I found them to be rather adorable. “Who said anything about love? I’m juat trying to get you in bed.”
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Post by colfoley on Dec 11, 2017 7:02:49 GMT
Unless you've been there. I'd think that would make it worse. Everyone has, at some point, embarrassed themself. I'd not wish my moment on another, nor wish to see it reproduced in a video game. I definitely don't want the protagonist being undermined by too many facepalms. To each their own. Like I said, it's not just that one scene. There are lots of silly moments. They don't sit well with some of us. I like the game, and will likely start a new PT this week. I still cringe over far too much of its writing and VA. I know you are probably trying to get out of this conversation, and I don't blame you. But I have to point out this is one of the reasons Ryder is relatable to me. Ryder is a real life flesh and blood character with hopes and dreams and flaws and they can embarass themselves and they aren't always taken seriously 'because protagonist'. They aren't a caricature.
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Post by river82 on Dec 11, 2017 7:07:31 GMT
Yeah, space opera is about adventures in space but much urban fantasy is really light, light hearted, not really serious, with a wise cracking protagonist even when dealing with dark subject matter. Cheerful. That's just my impression of a lot of UF and Andromeda.
Also the awkward romance scenes remind me of the romance scenes in a lot of urban fantasy (which much of the time can blend into the paranormal romance genre. Like "Unwed and Undead" sometimes called paranormal romance sometimes urban fantasy.)
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Post by colfoley on Dec 11, 2017 7:10:12 GMT
I mean seriously, name one character flaw Shepard has/had?
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Post by Element Zero on Dec 11, 2017 7:11:16 GMT
I'd think that would make it worse. Everyone has, at some point, embarrassed themself. I'd not wish my moment on another, nor wish to see it reproduced in a video game. I definitely don't want the protagonist being undermined by too many facepalms. To each their own. Like I said, it's not just that one scene. There are lots of silly moments. They don't sit well with some of us. I like the game, and will likely start a new PT this week. I still cringe over far too much of its writing and VA. I know you are probably trying to get out of this conversation, and I don't blame you. But I have to point out this is one of the reasons Ryder is relatable to me. Ryder is a real life flesh and blood character with hopes and dreams and flaws and they can embarass themselves and they aren't always taken seriously 'because protagonist'. They aren't a caricature. Good points. I'll try to view it through that lens during my next PT. (It will feature Scott, though, so less cringing in general.) I wasn't ready to pack up and leave just yet, but you know me pretty well. As long as it's a productive conversation, and not a negative argument, I'm always willing to stick around until I get bored or exhaust my value to the discussion.
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Post by Element Zero on Dec 11, 2017 7:13:24 GMT
Yeah, space opera is about adventures in space but much urban fantasy is really light, light hearted, not really serious, with a wise cracking protagonist even when dealing with dark subject matter. Cheerful. That's just my impression of a lot of UF and Andromeda. Also the awkward romance scenes remind me of the romance scenes in a lot of urban fantasy (which much of the time can blend into the paranormal romance genre. Like "Unwed and Undead" sometimes called paranormal romance sometimes urban fantasy.) Cheerful despite any circumstance is a very good description of MEA. I feel that this often undermined the seriousness of situations.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 11, 2017 7:14:35 GMT
I know you are probably trying to get out of this conversation, and I don't blame you. But I have to point out this is one of the reasons Ryder is relatable to me. Ryder is a real life flesh and blood character with hopes and dreams and flaws and they can embarass themselves and they aren't always taken seriously 'because protagonist'. They aren't a caricature. Good points. I'll try to view it through that lens during my next PT. (It will feature Scott, though, so less cringing in general.) I wasn't ready to pack up and leave just yet, but you know me pretty well. As long as it's a productive conversation, and not a negative argument, I'm always willing to stick around until I get bored or exhaust my value to the discussion. Weelllll I will give you that too because your comment makes me think of the SECOND cringy line in Mass Effect Andromeda by Fryda Wolff herself "If you dent your locker the principal will be piiiiisssssssssseeed" (said in a sing songy voice). Honestly knowing she has voiced actual kids before in other games I think she was channeling that experience for Sara Ryder which...took me out of the experience a couple of times. Sometimes it was really cute though (like talking with the animal you find on the Tempest) but man that line delivery was just horrible. For the record Tom Taylorson did a much better job with that line.
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