Mass Effect Andromeda Skepticism thread

linksocarina
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Mass Effect Andromeda Skepticism thread Jan 6, 2017 21:12:42 GMT Natashina, smilesja, and 1 more like this

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Post by linksocarina on Jan 6, 2017 21:12:42 GMT

Jan 6, 2017 14:17:36 GMT Serza said:

Jan 6, 2017 13:13:28 GMT Pounce de León said:

Hu? I didn't play TW3 yet, because the first two games sucked balls.

First one is a god damn barely playable mess about which you can't say it aged poorly - it simply didn't manage aging at all.
Second one is a rather decent RPG, even if some portions of the RPG gameplay just suck balls.
Third one is... yeah, quite good. As I said, it's not the holy fucking grail, but it's good. I've played some 13 hours of KOTOR, and even TW3 can't hold a candle to old BioWare RPGs. Though I suspect it's partly the protagonist smoking ten packs a day unless you play in Polish, and then I got the Ostrawica Granica syndrome that I like to refer to as "ocaď pocaď".

i'll say it for you, it aged poorly.

I will honestly never defend The Witcher in any form, its a mediocre game overall in presentation, execution, and gameplay, and it took CD Projekt Red 8 years to get it right with The Witcher 3. Even Witcher 2 is a bit of a jagged pill to swallow...frankly, Dragon Age 2 I thought did it better in terms of pacing and characters.

And even them, i'm so cold to the concept of the series I just couldn't be bothered to play it at this point, maybe some day when it's cheaper and easy to pick up at least.

Still, credit to CD Projekt Red, they did well with Witcher 3. It's just not innovative in the way people think it is, and if nothing else, that is the point that annoys me the most- the touting of it as the second coming or the revival of something classic. It's not, it's just really well made.

Now is it better than Inquisition, I thought Dragon Age did a fair job but I can't really judge. As for Andromeda...different sort of genre when it comes to setting of RPG, so I don't know.

maximusarael020
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Mass Effect Andromeda Skepticism thread Jan 6, 2017 22:30:05 GMT

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Post by maximusarael020 on Jan 6, 2017 22:30:05 GMT

Jan 6, 2017 11:33:30 GMT Sondergaard said:

Jan 6, 2017 9:15:09 GMT Cypher said:

<snip>

Um, no.
I just want the trailers to show character moments interspersed with the gameplay. Even I would find stat lists boring in a trailer.
At the minute it's 'shooty, shooty, bang bang' and gives people the impression that this is a shooter, pure and simple.
Worries old timers like myself and gives the wrong impression to newcomers.

This wasn't a trailer. There's only been one true "trailer" so far. The 2016 N7 day trailer is the only trailer besides the 2015 E3 Announce trailer. In the N7 day trailer there were many shots of characters and almost no "shooty shooty bang bang". I think you are confusing "trailers" with "videos". The VGA awards clip was a gameplay reveal. The NVIDIA CES clip was a graphics/tech demo, as was the Sony 4K clip a tech demo. Wait for actual marketing before being upset about a lack of substance in trailers, because we've only had the one trailer.

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smilesja
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Mass Effect Andromeda Skepticism thread Jan 6, 2017 22:39:55 GMT

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Post by smilesja on Jan 6, 2017 22:39:55 GMT

Jan 6, 2017 14:54:48 GMT SofNascimento said:

Jan 6, 2017 14:05:25 GMT @princeenigmatic said:

I look to the days when Witcher 3 isn't a plague on discussions on any and all gaming forums.

When it becomes irrelevant, and that is never. It did some things better than any RPG ever and pushed some boundries in the RPG genre. Mainly techincal ones and world building related.

So expect more threads like this sigh......

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Mass Effect Andromeda Skepticism thread Jan 6, 2017 23:07:44 GMT

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Post by Sondergaard on Jan 6, 2017 23:07:44 GMT

Jan 6, 2017 22:30:05 GMT maximusarael020 said:

Jan 6, 2017 11:33:30 GMT Sondergaard said:

Um, no.
I just want the trailers to show character moments interspersed with the gameplay. Even I would find stat lists boring in a trailer.
At the minute it's 'shooty, shooty, bang bang' and gives people the impression that this is a shooter, pure and simple.
Worries old timers like myself and gives the wrong impression to newcomers.

This wasn't a trailer. There's only been one true "trailer" so far. The 2016 N7 day trailer is the only trailer besides the 2015 E3 Announce trailer. In the N7 day trailer there were many shots of characters and almost no "shooty shooty bang bang". I think you are confusing "trailers" with "videos". The VGA awards clip was a gameplay reveal. The NVIDIA CES clip was a graphics/tech demo, as was the Sony 4K clip a tech demo. Wait for actual marketing before being upset about a lack of substance in trailers, because we've only had the one trailer.

You can call it whatever you like. When we have nothing else to go off its a trailer, as BioWare well know.

And I couldn't care less about 'substance'. I don't want characters revealed, stories explained, twists spoiled. I want something to tell me that the game I'm buying is what I think it is and not a third person shooter with some character beats, which is what everything revealed so far is pointing to.

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armass81 N3 Posts: 684 Likes: 858 armass81 inherit Male 1148 0 Jun 30, 2019 0:40:20 GMT 858 armass81 684 N3 Aug 23, 2016 11:48:55 GMT August 2016 armass81	Mass Effect Andromeda Skepticism thread Jan 7, 2017 2:14:12 GMT pdusen, Natashina, and 7 more like this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by armass81 on Jan 7, 2017 2:14:12 GMT Drinking game, take a shot whenever you read the following words on this thread: CD Projekt Red or CDPR Witcher 3 or TW3 Endings DA:I or Dragon Age: Inquisition
	Last Edit: Jan 7, 2017 2:19:51 GMT by armass81

Saboru N2 Posts: 167 Likes: 261 Saboru inherit Female 2094 0 Jul 27, 2019 22:41:47 GMT 261 Saboru 167 N2 Nov 15, 2016 2:26:06 GMT November 2016 cyclamen	Mass Effect Andromeda Skepticism thread Jan 7, 2017 2:17:12 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Saboru on Jan 7, 2017 2:17:12 GMT Does Betteridge's law of headlines apply to message boards?

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Mass Effect Andromeda Skepticism thread Jan 7, 2017 3:08:27 GMT via mobile dmc1001 and Vall like this

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Post by midnightwolf on Jan 7, 2017 3:08:27 GMT

Jan 7, 2017 2:14:12 GMT armass81 said:

Drinking game, take a shot whenever you read the following words on this thread:

CD Projekt Red or CDPR
Witcher 3 or TW3
Endings
DA:I or Dragon Age: Inquisition

Hmm......I don't think I've got enough Vodka for that. Nor could my liver survive it.

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Mass Effect Andromeda Skepticism thread Jan 7, 2017 3:34:35 GMT Jibbs likes this

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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2017 3:34:35 GMT

I don't think this game will fail miserably.

After all, the combat seems pretty solid, the dialogue wheel is back, and we'll have a new crew, a new ship, a new story which we don't know how it will develop.

And most importantly, they are not promising much, not showing much, so we can't really be disappointed. It's not gonna be another Reaper War affecting an entire galaxy.
In fact, it's almost certain we'll not even leave the Heleus Cluster.

Did you people have high expectations for the first Mass Effect, when you didn't even know what the game was about? (Aside from sci fi shooter)

Think of it as a new franchise.

Last Edit: Jan 7, 2017 3:47:10 GMT by Deleted

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Mass Effect Andromeda Skepticism thread Jan 7, 2017 4:33:08 GMT midnightwolf likes this

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Post by dmc1001 on Jan 7, 2017 4:33:08 GMT

Jan 6, 2017 20:09:20 GMT Iakus said:

I don't care for the Witcher games. I don't like the grimdark setting. I don't like Geralt (not only is he a set character, he's not even a likable one to me) But I can appreciate that the games themselves are well-crafted and designed. Which is why I am interested in CDPR's Cyberpunk game and whatever else they have, to see if they can make something I DO like.

BioWare...just seems to keep making the same mistakes over and over.

I didn't care a whole lot for TW1. TW2 is okay so far (not finished). Haven't played TW3. OTOH, I loved ME1-3. I enjoyed DAO, DA2 and DAI to varying degrees. I got to customize my characters more, which suits me. Couldn't do that in TW. Plus, sci-fi interests me more than fantasy so TW will probably never hit the top spot for me.

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Mass Effect Andromeda Skepticism thread Jan 7, 2017 10:07:31 GMT The Elder King, Kymira, and 8 more like this

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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Jan 7, 2017 10:07:31 GMT

Jan 5, 2017 3:23:12 GMT dutchsghost7 said:

Less than 3 months to go and we get minor blips of poorly edited gameplay trailers that are less than 2 minutes long.

Tonight's Nvidia GeForce gameplay was more insulting than the vga trailer. Is it too much to ask for a proper gameplay reveal? Before Doom released we had multiple gameplay videos 10-20 minutes long showcasing the game months beforehand for a 15hr game. Is Bioware not confident with their product?

It's the DAI marketing campaign all over again and I'd expect we get shitty twitch streams of the game nearing launch but come on.

Side note: game isn't really wowing me on the graphics department like Witcher 3.

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Mass Effect Andromeda Skepticism thread Jan 7, 2017 13:35:46 GMT

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Post by The Arbiter on Jan 7, 2017 13:35:46 GMT

Jan 6, 2017 21:12:42 GMT linksocarina said:

Jan 6, 2017 14:17:36 GMT Serza said:

First one is a god damn barely playable mess about which you can't say it aged poorly - it simply didn't manage aging at all.
Second one is a rather decent RPG, even if some portions of the RPG gameplay just suck balls.
Third one is... yeah, quite good. As I said, it's not the holy fucking grail, but it's good. I've played some 13 hours of KOTOR, and even TW3 can't hold a candle to old BioWare RPGs. Though I suspect it's partly the protagonist smoking ten packs a day unless you play in Polish, and then I got the Ostrawica Granica syndrome that I like to refer to as "ocaď pocaď".

i'll say it for you, it aged poorly.

I will honestly never defend The Witcher in any form, its a mediocre game overall in presentation, execution, and gameplay, and it took CD Projekt Red 8 years to get it right with The Witcher 3. Even Witcher 2 is a bit of a jagged pill to swallow...frankly, Dragon Age 2 I thought did it better in terms of pacing and characters.

And even them, i'm so cold to the concept of the series I just couldn't be bothered to play it at this point, maybe some day when it's cheaper and easy to pick up at least.

Still, credit to CD Projekt Red, they did well with Witcher 3. It's just not innovative in the way people think it is, and if nothing else, that is the point that annoys me the most- the touting of it as the second coming or the revival of something classic. It's not, it's just really well made.

Now is it better than Inquisition, I thought Dragon Age did a fair job but I can't really judge. As for Andromeda...different sort of genre when it comes to setting of RPG, so I don't know.

yeah Witcher 1 was a mess in the beginning though it gets good later on in the game... but still a mess [CDPR's first game though]. But in Witcher 2... I kinda enjoyed it [COMBAT WAS HARD... WAY HARD THAN TW3] also 10/10 would bang Philippa Eilhart. Now that you reminded me... must bang Liara next.

Oh yeah the sidequests are the ones that gets praised in TW3 it's not your generic quest... there are like tied to consequences or something

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Mass Effect Andromeda Skepticism thread Jan 7, 2017 14:15:57 GMT

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Post by firstenchanter on Jan 7, 2017 14:15:57 GMT

Haven't read the entire thread, but:

I doubt ME:A will bomb. There will probably be people who don't like it, but I highly doubt that it will completely suck and/or that a majority of people who play it will hate it.

It's difficult to know too much since we've gotten very little info with release so close, and, honestly, that does weird me out quite a bit, but I don't think anything we've seen looks bad.

I'm sure that, whatever flaws the game might have, it will probably be very enjoyable for a lot of people.

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Mass Effect Andromeda Skepticism thread Jan 7, 2017 17:02:21 GMT via mobile cloud9 likes this

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Post by Arcian on Jan 7, 2017 17:02:21 GMT

Jan 6, 2017 8:14:54 GMT dmc1001 said:

The real question is: why are you planning on playing a game you anticipate hating? If you don't plan on playing, what's your interest in slamming the game on a forum for fans? Trying to convince others not to play?

To inspire others to protest against BioWare so they stop making subpar games. They're not going to realize they're doing something wrong unless people keep hammering it in.

If you read this signature while scrolling, you have been visited by BASED HARRIS the Dresden Decimator!

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Mass Effect Andromeda Skepticism thread Jan 7, 2017 17:06:47 GMT pdusen and midnightwolf like this

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Post by dmc1001 on Jan 7, 2017 17:06:47 GMT

Jan 7, 2017 17:02:21 GMT Arcian said:

Jan 6, 2017 8:14:54 GMT dmc1001 said:

The real question is: why are you planning on playing a game you anticipate hating? If you don't plan on playing, what's your interest in slamming the game on a forum for fans? Trying to convince others not to play?

To inspire others to protest against BioWare so they stop making subpar games. They're not going to realize they're doing something wrong unless people keep hammering it in.

Your effort is a fail, at least where I'm concerned. I thoroughly enjoyed the MET. I have no reason to think I won't like MEA. OTOH, I did not enjoy TW1 and am on the fence about TW2. Haven't played TW3. So if I love 3 BioWare games in the same genre as the next one coming out but don't love 2 out of 3 of CDRP games, which games am likely to go with?

Dead Reapers are how we win this.
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Mass Effect Andromeda Skepticism thread Jan 7, 2017 17:12:27 GMT via mobile cloud9 likes this

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Post by Arcian on Jan 7, 2017 17:12:27 GMT

Jan 7, 2017 17:06:47 GMT dmc1001 said:

Jan 7, 2017 17:02:21 GMT Arcian said:

To inspire others to protest against BioWare so they stop making subpar games. They're not going to realize they're doing something wrong unless people keep hammering it in.

Your effort is a fail, at least where I'm concerned. I thoroughly enjoyed the MET. I have no reason to think I won't like MEA. OTOH, I did not enjoy TW1 and am on the fence about TW2. Haven't played TW3. So if I love 3 BioWare games in the same genre as the next one coming out but don't love 2 out of 3 of CDRP games, which games am likely to go with?

Why did you bring the Witcher into this?

And you can enjoy bad games, dude. Glowing praise of a heap of shit does not change the fact that it's a heap of shit. I enjoyed most of ME3, but that doesn't change the fact that it was a massive drop in quality compared to previous BioWare games.

Judging by the ME:A gameplay they've released BioWare is lagging behind the rest of the industry in terms of innovation, especially in the narrative department.

If you read this signature while scrolling, you have been visited by BASED HARRIS the Dresden Decimator!

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Mass Effect Andromeda Skepticism thread Jan 7, 2017 17:20:21 GMT Jibbs and eastwestern like this

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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2017 17:20:21 GMT

Jan 7, 2017 17:12:27 GMT Arcian said:

Jan 7, 2017 17:06:47 GMT dmc1001 said:

Your effort is a fail, at least where I'm concerned. I thoroughly enjoyed the MET. I have no reason to think I won't like MEA. OTOH, I did not enjoy TW1 and am on the fence about TW2. Haven't played TW3. So if I love 3 BioWare games in the same genre as the next one coming out but don't love 2 out of 3 of CDRP games, which games am likely to go with?

Why did you bring the Witcher into this?

And you can enjoy bad games, dude. Glowing praise of a heap of shit does not change the fact that it's a heap of shit. I enjoyed most of ME3, but that doesn't change the fact that it was a massive drop in quality compared to previous BioWare games.

Judging by the ME:A gameplay they've released BioWare is lagging behind the rest of the industry in terms of innovation, especially in the narrative department.

And that's all there is to it. Well said.

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Mass Effect Andromeda Skepticism thread Jan 7, 2017 17:24:45 GMT pdusen, dmc1001, and 2 more like this

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Post by smilesja on Jan 7, 2017 17:24:45 GMT

Jan 7, 2017 17:12:27 GMT Arcian said:

Jan 7, 2017 17:06:47 GMT dmc1001 said:

Your effort is a fail, at least where I'm concerned. I thoroughly enjoyed the MET. I have no reason to think I won't like MEA. OTOH, I did not enjoy TW1 and am on the fence about TW2. Haven't played TW3. So if I love 3 BioWare games in the same genre as the next one coming out but don't love 2 out of 3 of CDRP games, which games am likely to go with?

Why did you bring the Witcher into this?

And you can enjoy bad games, dude. Glowing praise of a heap of shit does not change the fact that it's a heap of shit. I enjoyed most of ME3, but that doesn't change the fact that it was a massive drop in quality compared to previous BioWare games.

Judging by the ME:A gameplay they've released BioWare is lagging behind the rest of the industry in terms of innovation, especially in the narrative department.

What if those bad games are actually good to me?

"Demoman takes SKILL!"

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Mass Effect Andromeda Skepticism thread Jan 7, 2017 17:28:12 GMT midnightwolf, Jibbs, and 1 more like this

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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2017 17:28:12 GMT

Jan 7, 2017 17:24:45 GMT smilesja said:

Jan 7, 2017 17:12:27 GMT Arcian said:

Why did you bring the Witcher into this?

And you can enjoy bad games, dude. Glowing praise of a heap of shit does not change the fact that it's a heap of shit. I enjoyed most of ME3, but that doesn't change the fact that it was a massive drop in quality compared to previous BioWare games.

Judging by the ME:A gameplay they've released BioWare is lagging behind the rest of the industry in terms of innovation, especially in the narrative department.

What if those bad games are actually good to me?

Then you don't have to complain, much less complain about others complaining, and let those unhappy have their voices heard too.
It's true they can't please everyone, but they can do a much better job at trying.

For example, in ME3 a lot of people raged about the auto-dialogue. Then another bunch of people raged about them, and said they were fine with it, criticizing those who didn't like the new direction.

That's why they put an option there to play the entire game without selecting a single line if you wanted, or most of them. It should just have been better implemented.
That's all there was to it, in this aspect. To give the players MORE choice, not less.

Everyone would've been happy, or at least less angry.

Last Edit: Jan 7, 2017 17:39:12 GMT by Deleted

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Mass Effect Andromeda Skepticism thread Jan 7, 2017 17:32:54 GMT blah23, Natashina, and 6 more like this

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Post by traks on Jan 7, 2017 17:32:54 GMT

Jan 7, 2017 17:12:27 GMT Arcian said:

Jan 7, 2017 17:06:47 GMT dmc1001 said:

Your effort is a fail, at least where I'm concerned. I thoroughly enjoyed the MET. I have no reason to think I won't like MEA. OTOH, I did not enjoy TW1 and am on the fence about TW2. Haven't played TW3. So if I love 3 BioWare games in the same genre as the next one coming out but don't love 2 out of 3 of CDRP games, which games am likely to go with?

Why did you bring the Witcher into this?

And you can enjoy bad games, dude. Glowing praise of a heap of shit does not change the fact that it's a heap of shit. I enjoyed most of ME3, but that doesn't change the fact that it was a massive drop in quality compared to previous BioWare games.

Judging by the ME:A gameplay they've released BioWare is lagging behind the rest of the industry in terms of innovation, especially in the narrative department.

How do you judge the narrative with looking at gameplay? Just wondering... :whistle:

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Mass Effect Andromeda Skepticism thread Jan 7, 2017 17:40:21 GMT Sarayne, pdusen, and 9 more like this

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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2017 17:40:21 GMT

Jan 7, 2017 17:02:21 GMT Arcian said:

Jan 6, 2017 8:14:54 GMT dmc1001 said:

The real question is: why are you planning on playing a game you anticipate hating? If you don't plan on playing, what's your interest in slamming the game on a forum for fans? Trying to convince others not to play?

To inspire others to protest against BioWare so they stop making subpar games. They're not going to realize they're doing something wrong unless people keep hammering it in.

That's BS and you know it. To start with, their games are not "subpar." If they were, they simply wouldn't sell. Second, "hammering" on a company for basically everything it does for the last several years does nothing to encourage them to keep improving on their products (so stop trying to come across as some sort of community hero in that respect, while demeaning other fans for just liking what they like).

As dmc1001 has just said... your campaign is a definite fail with me. I still enjoy playing the MET and have a firm belief that I will most likely enjoy ME:A every bit as much, if not more. I can only give the highest of kudos to the staff at Bioware who continue to be genuinely interested in developing their products despite the ongoing maliciousness of some of their so-called fans. Just trying to create anything when being confronted daily by so much hate must be extremely difficult for them.

Last Edit: Jan 7, 2017 18:16:05 GMT by Deleted

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Mass Effect Andromeda Skepticism thread Jan 7, 2017 18:15:27 GMT pdusen, blah23, and 3 more like this

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Post by dmc1001 on Jan 7, 2017 18:15:27 GMT

Jan 7, 2017 17:12:27 GMT Arcian said:

Jan 7, 2017 17:06:47 GMT dmc1001 said:

Your effort is a fail, at least where I'm concerned. I thoroughly enjoyed the MET. I have no reason to think I won't like MEA. OTOH, I did not enjoy TW1 and am on the fence about TW2. Haven't played TW3. So if I love 3 BioWare games in the same genre as the next one coming out but don't love 2 out of 3 of CDRP games, which games am likely to go with?

Why did you bring the Witcher into this?

And you can enjoy bad games, dude. Glowing praise of a heap of shit does not change the fact that it's a heap of shit. I enjoyed most of ME3, but that doesn't change the fact that it was a massive drop in quality compared to previous BioWare games.

Judging by the ME:A gameplay they've released BioWare is lagging behind the rest of the industry in terms of innovation, especially in the narrative department.

I don't think they're a heap of shit. You do.

As for MEA gameplay, we have so little to go on that it's ridiculous to make the judgment you've made.

Dead Reapers are how we win this.
- Admiral Steven Hackett

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Mass Effect Andromeda Skepticism thread Jan 7, 2017 18:19:07 GMT pdusen, blah23, and 4 more like this

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Post by dmc1001 on Jan 7, 2017 18:19:07 GMT

Jan 7, 2017 17:28:12 GMT @mdnplayer said:

Jan 7, 2017 17:24:45 GMT smilesja said:

What if those bad games are actually good to me?

Then you don't have to complain, much less complain about others complaining, and let those unhappy have their voices heard too.
It's true they can't please everyone, but they can do a much better job at trying.

For example, in ME3 a lot of people raged about the auto-dialogue. Then another bunch of people raged about them, and said they were fine with it, criticizing those who didn't like the new direction.

That's why they put an option there to play the entire game without selecting a single line if you wanted, or most of them. It should just have been better implemented.
That's all there was to it, in this aspect. To give the players MORE choice, not less.

Everyone would've been happy, or at least less angry.

And it's totally fine to complain about a game you've actually played. You can cite specific things about the game you didn't like. However, raging about what you THINK the game is going to be like makes no sense. I don't care if people don't like a game they've played. I do care when a game is criticized that hasn't even come out yet.

Dead Reapers are how we win this.
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Mass Effect Andromeda Skepticism thread Jan 7, 2017 19:18:19 GMT via mobile Gileadan, Vall, and 1 more like this

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Post by xetykins on Jan 7, 2017 19:18:19 GMT

I don't give a toss if it is successful or not as long as I will love it.

After the butchering of my most favorite game DAO with the horrible 2 & 3, I have to admit I am not as excited about it as I am with cyberpunk 2077. A game with only a short teaser years ago. This is primarily because of the very high quality of cdpr's last AAA release.

But I liked all the ME games so far, and god help me EVEN ME3,so I am not so worried about it. Well maybe a little looking at the amount of their sjw devs. But other than that, I am hopeful. (squeeellzz in excitement)

Last Edit: Jan 7, 2017 19:33:58 GMT by xetykins

midnightwolf
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Mass Effect Andromeda Skepticism thread Jan 7, 2017 19:19:34 GMT

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Post by midnightwolf on Jan 7, 2017 19:19:34 GMT

Jan 7, 2017 19:18:19 GMT xetykins said:

I don't give a toss if it is successful or not as long as I will love i

Best answer yet. And I agree!

Gileadan
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Mass Effect Andromeda Skepticism thread Jan 7, 2017 19:24:03 GMT xetykins, Plague Doctor, and 1 more like this

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Post by Gileadan on Jan 7, 2017 19:24:03 GMT

Jan 7, 2017 19:18:19 GMT xetykins said:

I don't give a toss if it is successful or not as long as I will love i

What? Learn to be a proper selfish bastard! If I like it, I want it to be successful so they can make more of it!

"Give me a fully loaded Hornet and I'll shake the gates of heaven." -Aria Reilly

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