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Post by cloud9 on Feb 15, 2017 9:25:28 GMT
So you think that if a game isn't a good as TW3, it automatically sucks? Compared to Dragon Age? Pretty much. And as much as I love Skyrim it kicked it's ass to the curve too and I seen games are as good as Witcher.
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 15, 2017 9:33:33 GMT
So you think that if a game isn't a good as TW3, it automatically sucks? Compared to Dragon Age? Pretty much. And as much as I love Skyrim it kicked it's ass to the curve too and I seen games are as good as Witcher. I never said there aren't games as good as TW3. I said that a game can still be good even it TW3 is better then it. Take for example Skyrim. You prefer TW3, vastly (as I do). It doesn't mean Skyrim is a bad game. It's still a good game, even if TW3 is better. That's all I'm saying. We don't know how good (of bad) Andromeda will be, but it might still be considered a good game but not at the level of TW3/whatever game you want to compare it with. All I'm saying is that there is a scale from worst game ever to masterpiece, like good, or great, or decent. So MEA can still be viewed positively even if it doesn't reach the top.
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Post by vonuber on Feb 15, 2017 9:40:35 GMT
It's an opinion. You can disagree, sure, but that's about it. True, but I'd like to know why you think so.
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Post by projectpatdc on Feb 15, 2017 10:38:03 GMT
Really?? Witcher destroyed Inquisition!! But we'll see if they deserve another chance.
Did you read what I wrote? I said MEA doesn't have to reach TW3's LEVEL to be good. It means it might be a good or great game even if 'inferior' to TW3. Nothing in my post implied the opposite. I think TW3 is better then DAI, but I think the latter is still a good game. A game doesn't have to be as good as TW3 to be considered good or great. But, But....which game has better voice acting?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2017 10:38:28 GMT
As someone who holds ME3 as something close to perfection in gaming, my biggest worry is that they roll back from all the complaints to something resembling Mass Effect: the high school years. I guess Bioware has always been cringey with its dating sim stuff (and resulting Team America sex scenes) but at least it was good for a laugh. Looking at potato face Sara and that dire disarm animation there really is something uncanny about it, almost to the point of nausea. I guess that's what happens when you have highly realistic models and textures but not the animation quality to back it up. You... you what? Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2017 10:44:22 GMT
Witcher is honestly a trash game with semi-decent writing.
The tutorials are garbage, the combat system is repetitive and easily exploitable, the tonics and oils are completely unnecessary, even on higher difficulties, the open world is completely void of anything interesting, what few things that are in place on the world map are basically akin to fetch quests, the voice acting is cringe, the side quests are tedious, the game is extremely limiting in terms of what you can actually do...
But hey, at least the graphics are good!
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Post by SofNascimento on Feb 15, 2017 10:46:57 GMT
Witcher is honestly a trash game with semi-decent writing. The tutorials are garbage, the combat system is repetitive and easily exploitable, the tonics and oils are completely unnecessary, even on higher difficulties, the open world is completely void of anything interesting, what few things that are in place on the world map are basically akin to fetch quests, the voice acting is cringe, the side quests are tedious, the game is extremely limiting in terms of what you can actually do... But hey, at least the graphics are good!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2017 10:53:44 GMT
Witcher is honestly a trash game with semi-decent writing. The tutorials are garbage, the combat system is repetitive and easily exploitable, the tonics and oils are completely unnecessary, even on higher difficulties, the open world is completely void of anything interesting, what few things that are in place on the world map are basically akin to fetch quests, the voice acting is cringe, the side quests are tedious, the game is extremely limiting in terms of what you can actually do... But hey, at least the graphics are good! Please describe how much fun you have riding 20 minutes to pick up a random piece of treasure, riding back to a signpost, teleporting back to town, running through town, giving the item to an NPC, watching a cutscene where he says "thank you", and getting some EXP. Or better yet, describe how engaging it is to engage in combat, use quen, dodge an attack, swing your sword, and repeat until you've cleared out an entire camp of high level enemies. How about how the game introduces you to this riveting combat system through literal essays describing different combat techniques that you won't actually ever have to use? Oh, wait, maybe you can tell me why the leveling system is so intuitive. Man, I sure do love equipping one negligible perk at a time every 3 or 4 levels. It really helps to build my character. 10/10 RPG.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2017 11:07:12 GMT
Witcher is honestly a trash game with semi-decent writing. The tutorials are garbage, the combat system is repetitive and easily exploitable, the tonics and oils are completely unnecessary, even on higher difficulties, the open world is completely void of anything interesting, what few things that are in place on the world map are basically akin to fetch quests, the voice acting is cringe, the side quests are tedious, the game is extremely limiting in terms of what you can actually do... But hey, at least the graphics are good! and a story structure and outcome that makes sense and doesn't go full retard unlike some other games......
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Post by simsimillia on Feb 15, 2017 11:11:45 GMT
I don't get all the hate Dragon Age 2 is getting. I prefer it a lot over Origins. Inquisition is my favourite game of the series. They all have flaws and in my opinion Origins has the worst combat as it quickly becomes a chore and then isn't even cool to look at.
I also don't get all the love The Witcher is getting. I played the first game for 90 Minutes...I stopped after that because the combat was absolutely unbearable and the Story up to that point wasn't enough to make me play it anyway. I managed to put about 9 hours into The Witcher 2...same thing again, didn't like the combat at all...didn't help that I didn't like Geralt too, which was an even bigger issue. I didn't even bother with Witcher 3 mostly for the later reason (not liking Geralt), but I don't expect that they suddenly figured out how to get the Combat System to a point where I like it. I recognize it's probs a very good game, but not just for me. It'll be interesting to see if CDPR can deliver on the expectation they build up on their next game.
Also, one thing I think many people don't appreciate about Bioware is, that they actually release different games. All games of the Mass Effect series are distinct and are not just a new iteration of the same formula with minor tweaks, like the (yearly) releases of many other game companies. Despite being owned by EA, Bioware is actually quite tame when it comes to shitty market practices. Of course there is the whole "From Ashes DLC" debacle of Mass Effect 3, but at least we don't need a chart for where we get what pre-order bonuses...or are told to pre-order the game before release. Some may sneer at the micro transactions for Multiplayer, BUT the Multiplayer DLC are released for everyone and don't divide the community.
Of course there are things I don't like and the Mass Effect 3 ending was so bad it shattered my enjoyment for board based Mass Effect RP. The writers clearly dropped the ball on the Mass Effect series overarching Reaper Plot. But I also think they did excellent on the Genophage and Geth/Quarian conflict. "Someone else, might've gotten it wrong".
They also showed in Dragon Age that they can handel an overarching plot and they managed to make it my favourite High Fantasy universe.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2017 11:21:08 GMT
Witcher is honestly a trash game with semi-decent writing. The tutorials are garbage, the combat system is repetitive and easily exploitable, the tonics and oils are completely unnecessary, even on higher difficulties, the open world is completely void of anything interesting, what few things that are in place on the world map are basically akin to fetch quests, the voice acting is cringe, the side quests are tedious, the game is extremely limiting in terms of what you can actually do... But hey, at least the graphics are good! and a story structure and outcome that makes sense and doesn't go full retard unlike some other games...... I really don't think I should have to applaud a game's writing for "making sense" or "not going full retard". That's like, the base level of my expectations going into an RPG.
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Post by vonuber on Feb 15, 2017 11:34:53 GMT
I've played about 20 hours of the witcher, about 13 of the witcher 2 and about 2 of the witcher 3.
By any normal measure these games should be right up my street - for some reason they just don't click.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2017 11:36:35 GMT
All I'm saying is that many open world RPGs (or open world games in general, honestly) have a tendency to build giant open worlds that look pretty without any real thought as to how that design will impact the game itself. You ever notice how pointless things like the jump button seem in Inquisition or Witcher? Do you ever feel like you need it for anything more than trying to go faster or maybe clear a small rocky hill, only to realize that there are invisible walls around it anyway?
That's really thoughtless open world design. It's an open world that exists just for the sake of having a large map, and it doesn't compliment the game at all.
Now, I would argue that Inquisition did have some major thematic elements and mechanical elements that benefit from an open world, like the health potions thing, for example. That makes the open world feel treacherous. It makes searching for a campsite or going back to your old one an important tactical decision in gameplay. It's interesting and exciting, not unlike bonfires in Dark Souls. It also makes sense in terms of the narrative because you're claiming these vast expanses of land for the sake of your Inquisition. Even if the open world Bioware made was limiting and extremely restrictive, there are arguments to make for including it.
Bethesda games, as bad as the writing can be, are built entirely on the idea that you can be whatever you want to be. Your backstory doesn't exist, you can be whatever kind of class, you can join any type of guild, you can go anywhere, you can do mundane shit like blacksmithing, etc. You can even straight up murder various NPCs just for the thrill of being allowed to kill quest givers in an RPG. It's a game that prides itself on the freedom you get as a player. I won't say they're perfect games, because they can honestly be quite mundane to play, but they know what they're about, and the design compliments this philosophy of player freedom. Dungeons are complex and lead to interesting loot, new places have new quests and new NPCs to talk to. It feels like you're exploring. It's fun. I also feel like this is why Fallout 4 fails on so many levels. The streamlining in various aspects is hard to swallow, but what really takes away from a Bethesda RPG is telling the player what they HAVE to care about, IE, Sean. Sean is boring. Nora is boring. No one cares. Stop forcing backstories, Bethesda, you're bad at it, and it takes away from everything that makes people care about your games. FREEDOM.
Witcher is open world because every popular fantasy RPG is open world. I can't think of a single good reason as to why it's set up this way, either mechanically or narrative-wise. You have vast amounts of open space with nothing in it. You have no real reason to explore various nooks and crannies because the loot you find is completely negligible, if you find anything at all, and you very very rarely stumble upon any kind of character or anything that makes use of Witcher's best mechanic, dialogue. At least not in a meaningful way. Geralt, as a Witcher, has no reason to be "exploring" in the way that Witcher III wants the player to. It asks you to be completely detached from everything going on around you so you can stop and pick flowers for 100+ hours. It actually REMOVES tension from the story. Why would Geralt even care enough about some of this bullshit to go out of his way to find it? He's not being paid for it. He isn't an explorer. He isn't someone who inherently gets a rush from wandering around for months. He does it because he has to. To get from point A to point B.
The ONLY reason I can think to have Witcher III be open world, aside from the fact that it's a gimmick to sell more copies, is that it kind of fits into the story in the sense that you're looking for Ciri, and making it this big open world kind of makes it feel like she could be anywhere, which drives Geralt's determination to find her.
That being said, you could do the same exact thing in a more scripted game. There's no reason for it to be so damn empty. It's boring. The difference between Witcher III and a much more intimately designed game with the same mechanics is roughly 100 hours of moving around through empty space.
Then again, I'm not a game designer, nor am I a professional writer. I'm just some dude on the internet who thinks games are getting stagnant, and cares too much about it.
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Post by NRieh on Feb 15, 2017 12:01:49 GMT
One thing I'll never understand about TW fans is that they just NEED to compare everything to it, and if anything is NOT like TW then it's (obviously) WORSE & must be HATED. There are some extreme cases which can't even stand the thought that (may be, in theory) there are some people in the world who might enjoy TW3 AND DAI\ME3\Fallout\whatever. It's like they can't love more than one game at a time. May be one day I'll get to see TW3 too. So far I've only made halfway into TW1. My issues, however have very little to do with the gameplay. Fighting is horrible - true, but I've loved Sapkovsky's books since before BW had written the Aurora engine (which CDRP had used for their first game). I normally hate games and movies based on books, especially when those are the books I know and love. Watching LoTR had been a real challange (or so I thought before watching the Hobbit, lol). I can tolerate Witcher TV series mostly for Jaskier's ('Dandellion'...meh) music from Grzegorz Ciechowski, and I think that Michał Żebrowski makes great Geralt too. This game does not match 'my' books and it's not even close to the films. In-game 'Geralt' does not make sense to me, I hate the 'wrong' tunes for the songs I know etc. So, it's kinda hard for me (and that godawful combat system is not helping, yeah).
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Post by amleth on Feb 15, 2017 12:02:39 GMT
Referring to the rather incoherent argument above, I think the appeal of tw3 arises from just how much thought and effort went into it. The great writing, the beautifully designed world, I don't think you need a reason to explore beyond having a basic imagination and sense of wonder. And no, DAO does not feel treacherous, quite the contrary, it's the most safe space of safe spaces out there. And of course Geralt has to pick herbs, he needs them for his potions, this is an established fact (well at least you will need potions if you play above casual, so turn up the difficulty)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2017 12:10:49 GMT
Referring to the rather incoherent argument above, I think the appeal of tw3 arises from just how much thought and effort went into it. The great writing, the beautifully designed world, I don't think you need a reason to explore beyond having a basic imagination and sense of wonder. And no, DAO does not feel treacherous, quite the contrary, it's the most safe space of safe spaces out there. And of course Geralt has to pick herbs, he needs them for his potions, this is an established fact (well at least you will need potions if you play above casual, so turn up the difficulty) I literally just gave several reasons as to why their open world design was utterly thoughtless. Plenty of effort went into the graphics, surely, but the open world design as a whole? It's like an Ubisoft game. Incomprehensible bullshit on a checklist. "Go here. Find the thing. Check. Repeat." The writing is fine. I said that. But there's nothing interesting TO explore, so that kind steps all over that point, huh? Oh boy, another piece of useless loot. Oh man, a creek. How exciting. So you played through the entire game without going back to camp to restock potions? Since Inquisition is so safe, and all? That's an example of mechanics and thematic merging, my friend. That's good game design, regardless of the shortcomings I feel Inquisition suffers from. You have to stop to restock. You have to do this because you cannot progress without potions, or you will die. You care because you're expanding the Inquisition into uncharted lands. No, he doesn't. I play on the hardest difficulty, and I've never used anything more than Quen, dodge, and basic sword swings. The game is incredibly shallow, mechanically, and it tries to hide this through incomprehensible menus and tutorials that are shoved down your throat all at once to give the illusion of complexity. I've literally never brewed a tonic or an oil. It's not needed to win. Not if you're even half decent at video games, anyway. Also, that doesn't need to take center stage. I already complained about how the open world does nothing but add 100+ hours of pointless, meaningless, shallow content. Geralt has no reason to trek hundreds of miles for a fucking underwater treasure chest. It's nonsensical to him as a character, and incomprehensible me as a player. Why should I care? Inquisition gives me a reason to care about my exploration. To spread the Inquisition. Witcher doesn't even give me that base level of motivation to explore their oversized empty world. What you're saying here is literally the most useless thing to me as a player. It basically amounts to "You should explore because it's a video game." No shit exploration is in the game. I'm giving reasons as to why it doesn't BELONG there. It does nothing to strengthen the narrative or the mechanics of the game. It's useless. (Unlike in Inquisition or The Elder Scrolls.)
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Post by vonuber on Feb 15, 2017 13:07:32 GMT
The best open world game is still Skyrim, because either was designed that way from the start. They also made the smart choice of allowing modders to be able to iron out any kinks that are there via tool release etc.
Mass effect was at its best in my opinion when it was a slightly overly large corridor / open space - like the citadel in me1, which is basically just a series of corridors. This allows a tightness of narrative but still lets you discover new things and roam off piste.
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 15, 2017 13:11:55 GMT
The best open world game is still Skyrim, because either was designed that way from the start. They also made the smart choice of allowing modders to be able to iron out any kinks that are there via tool release etc. Mass effect was at its best in my opinion when it was a slightly overly large corridor / open space - like the citadel in me1, which is basically just a series of corridors. This allows a tightness of narrative but still lets you discover new things and roam off piste. TW3 and DAI were designed from the start as open world games. And even if they were smart, the quality of the game itself isn't increased because modders did what the devs should've. As it stands on release Skyrim, as all Bethesda games, is a game full of glitches and bugs, more so then the majority off games, and as any game like this is should be criticized for that.
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Post by Amirit on Feb 15, 2017 13:23:29 GMT
I don't understand why people are saying the in-game face is ugly, unless they think all women look ugly without makeup, since that's the only difference. Visually unappealing or unattractive, sure, but ugly is a bigger stretch than Mr. Fantastic going around the Empire State Building to scratch his own ass. And if their past six games are any indication, everyone will be able to apply a healthy dose of makeup to the female characters to begin with. May be because of that? cdn.shazoo.ru/190020_WJEpLiWfjR_tumblr_olbbcvi6wm1sn2dtbo1_1280.jpgSee. some people know how to handle 3D models.
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Post by projectpatdc on Feb 15, 2017 13:48:57 GMT
Bashing one game or another doesn't make sense. Both Witcher 3 (not TALKING about 1 or 2) and DA:I were great games with highs and lows. Witcher 3 didn't need to be an open world game, most games don't. Open world games are made to give the player more freedom of role playing and exploration. There's no purpose besides the fact that they're fun. If you don't like doing the little fetch quests and walking aimlessly to come across a pretty pond, you don't have to do it, but it's there because not all gamers are alike. What is impressive about Witcher 3 is the quality of the game's stories, dialogue, characters, etc did not suffer due to the open world element. You could play it streamlined if you wanted or (as I do now), you can turn off your map and just ride into a direction creating your own story by interacting with random things across the world. You may not like the story and you may think the combat is too simple, but Witcher 3 is the best representation of tremendously increasing Quantity while maintaining quality. Fans of Mass Effect are split between those that want a streamlined storybook shooter who are skeptical that open world elements are going to affect their precious franchise and those who want the devs to take chances and possibly have that same feeling playing Witcher 3 or even DA:I. Non open world games lose replay value fast and sit on the shelf (I.e.Mass Effect 2,3, all the uncharted games, even dishonored 1,2). I want a Witcher 3 in Space style Mass Effect because I don;t want to play through the story once and be bored. But my opinion is relative to anyone else's opinion. But Hell, I think Witcher 3: Blood and Wine expansion is better and more rich in detail/story than 99% of games, linear or open world. Hoping Bioware works on one massive expansion like this instead different DLCs while really diving into the open world aspect on one or two worlds.
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Post by Sartoz on Feb 15, 2017 14:01:23 GMT
The best open world game is still Skyrim, because either was designed that way from the start. They also made the smart choice of allowing modders to be able to iron out any kinks that are there via tool release etc. Mass effect was at its best in my opinion when it was a slightly overly large corridor / open space - like the citadel in me1, which is basically just a series of corridors. This allows a tightness of narrative but still lets you discover new things and roam off piste. ,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
Playing Skyrim on and off at the moment. The modding community keeps the game going and interesting. Too bad Bio + EA can't understand that or are unwilling to provide us with the tools for internal reasons.
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Post by projectpatdc on Feb 15, 2017 14:13:06 GMT
I like the one on the right more as well (the real version is incredible), but Jayde Rossi is incredibly petite (and amazing/perfect). I don't think the devs want Sara to have that same petite look as Jayde since the rest of her body model is larger than Jayde with different proportions. Maybe they wanted Sara to be able to relate to all different types of female gamers or maybe that design is their way of making Jayde Rossi look younger. Jayde is 31 and Sara is 22. Girls and Guy's faces tend to thin out and loose the rest of its roundness throughout their 20s. Unless their just fat then that's their own fault.
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Post by mrfixit on Feb 15, 2017 14:13:18 GMT
I don't understand why people are saying the in-game face is ugly, unless they think all women look ugly without makeup, since that's the only difference. Visually unappealing or unattractive, sure, but ugly is a bigger stretch than Mr. Fantastic going around the Empire State Building to scratch his own ass. And if their past six games are any indication, everyone will be able to apply a healthy dose of makeup to the female characters to begin with. May be because of that? cdn.shazoo.ru/190020_WJEpLiWfjR_tumblr_olbbcvi6wm1sn2dtbo1_1280.jpgSee. some people know how to handle 3D models. What is this supposed to tell me? That in order to be "well-made" and "pretty", a girl has to have oval face, smaller chin, tighter jaw, more proportional lower lip, smaller nose, and more slanted narrower smoky eyes. Should we applaud the pursuit of Hollywood standards of beauty as only legitimate?
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Post by Amirit on Feb 15, 2017 14:44:47 GMT
What is this supposed to tell me? That in order to be "well-made" and "pretty", a girl has to have oval face, smaller chin, tighter jaw, more proportional lower lip, smaller nose, and more slanted narrower smoky eyes. Should we applaud the pursuit of Hollywood standards of beauty as only legitimate? Eeeerrrr .... Yes? Or, better say, that if you take such a perfect girl as a model, try to use your tools smart? Otherwise what was the point of scanning gorgeous model if you are going to transform her into ugly duckling? They could scan a random person from the street the - would save some budget too. The point is, they can not work (STILL can not work, after years and years of experience!) with their own lighting. And they continue to waste money for scanning beautiful people only to make them ugly.
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Post by simsimillia on Feb 15, 2017 14:47:56 GMT
One of those faces was created using 3d Modelling tools. The other one is a Photoshop Manip. Vastly different things.
Also the original image says Photoshop, not Source Filmmaker. The narrative is already spun in a different direction.
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