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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Jan 18, 2017 22:11:19 GMT
Are people still arguing that maybe we do not need armed vehicles in hostile alien planets because "insert tree hugging space hippy bs here"? Seriously? I've yet to see anything that remotely resembles "tree hugging space hippy bs here" offered as an argument, though there have been plenty of such accusations made. we have no weapons on our vehicles we come in peace = space hippies
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Jan 18, 2017 22:12:31 GMT
right...so explain to me HOW one underestimates what can be found on a hostile planet's surface when anyone with access to the extranet can see videos of tuchanka. Sure the verbiage will not be what I proposed but the lack of an armed vehicle can only be explained through stupidity. Is there a reason why Ryder would choose to land on a planet like Tuchanka? Shepard had specific reasons to go there. because we only have one star cluter worth of habitable planets, he might not have a choice at all. Have you seen footage of the Fiend? You are telling me you'd not rather take that on on a tank?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 22:13:32 GMT
All I know is that the ship is staying true to its name in this thread.
They got that right, at least.
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Post by spacebeetle on Jan 18, 2017 22:20:33 GMT
All I know is that the ship is staying true to its name in this thread. They got that right, at least. It should have been the SSV Shitstorm.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 22:22:11 GMT
It depends if there aren't truly any warships. In any case, as I said before, I doubt the majority of the people of the project knew every details. They likely didn't expect the situation to be as it is, as well as the Initiative being possibly unprepared to face the threats in Andromeda, which is why some people left the Nexus. Even if there aren't true warships, they cant slap some guns on civilian craft? And the whole unarmed ship and rover is ON THE FREAKING ORIENTATION! Who wouldn't go "F*ck that noise" when hearing that in a galaxy that has thresher maws!? The Ryder family, apparently. The funny thing is that the Milk Way is so fearful of hostile alien races that they don't even let you activate Relays. But going to Andromeda is less risky it seems. Yeah, they get a little nervous about home systems that serve as the foundation for thousands of years of culture and billions of lives. You know, they never really did explain 1) Why the Normandy was out there unstealthed, traveling at sub-light speed, or 2) How the Collector ship happened to find them. I'd suggest the answer is because the plot demands. Yes they did. 1) The Normandy was in stealth mode. We hear Pressly say that in the opening cutscene after they drop out of FTL. The stealth system only hides heat emissions, not the actual ship. You can still see it visually, but as Adams put it "You have to be pretty close to see something in space". As for traveling at sub-light speed, they were investigating the system because of reported Geth activity in the area. 2) Most likely, a couple of things. First, they have Reaper tech so who knows what the Reapers can detect. It seems apparent that the stealth systems alone aren't enough to hide the Normandy from them. Second, that reported Geth activity was most likely a lie to lure the Normandy to that system. They knew that was the Normandy's mission, so they used that as bait and were expecting them hence pouncing on them almost immediately. 1) That's assuming they were just out there cruising through space in case any detectable geth ships might come along. That wasn't my interpretation of their mission - I expected they would be FTLing system to system to planet to look. 2) Yes, I suspect there was a ruse to get the Normandy out there for attack by the Collector vessel. As excuses go, I've heard worse (than endlessly patrolling for geth). Still - the plot demanded. I've yet to see anything that remotely resembles "tree hugging space hippy bs here" offered as an argument, though there have been plenty of such accusations made. we have no weapons on our vehicles we come in peace = space hippies Who has seriously made that argument? Is there a reason why Ryder would choose to land on a planet like Tuchanka? Shepard had specific reasons to go there. because we only have one star cluter worth of habitable planets, he might not have a choice at all. Have you seen footage of the Fiend? You are telling me you'd not rather take that on on a tank? I'm not sure Tuchanka would qualify as habitable - at least I hope the Pathfinder has higher standards than what Tuchanka would meet - including the requirement that it be currently unoccupied by other sapient life.
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Post by traks on Jan 18, 2017 22:27:46 GMT
All I know is that the ship is staying true to its name in this thread. They got that right, at least. It should have been the SSV Shitstorm. The Alliance Navy has the rights to that name.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jan 18, 2017 22:30:19 GMT
How far you have to reach to try and explain this issue alone should tell people how dumb it really is. "What if they left before they had time to install them"? Yeah, what if they got the shipping address wrong or mixed up and we have 10,000 spare data drives while some intern at the Bumfuck Artificial Research Station is scratching his head and wondering what he's going to do with 12 dreadnaught sized mass accelerator cannons, 500 Javelin Missiles and 50 antipersonnel turrets. Sounds more like a spoof webcomic than a serious game. What, was the guy in charge of procurement for the AI named Frohman?
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Post by colfoley on Jan 18, 2017 22:33:32 GMT
You know the one argument that I am surprised has not been advanced (that I have seen anyways) Is if the Tempest did have weapons it would be just asking for trouble. Even the original SR-1 is bigger then it. So even if it did have weapons to defend itself pretty uch everything it would run into would rip it apart limb for limb. Running away is its only option really for survival.
Now the Nomad is a different story, but again, been there.
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Post by hammerstorm on Jan 18, 2017 22:37:05 GMT
How far you have to reach to try and explain this issue alone should tell people how dumb it really is. "What if they left before they had time to install them"? Yeah, what if they got the shipping address wrong or mixed up and we have 10,000 spare data drives while some intern at the Bumfuck Artificial Research Station is scratching his head and wondering what he's going to do with 12 dreadnaught sized mass accelerator cannons, 500 Javelin Missiles and 50 antipersonnel turrets. Sounds more like a spoof webcomic than a serious game. What, was the guy in charge of procurement for the AI named Frohman? No, what people have showed is that there is multiple way it can be viewed. The problem is that there are people that just shrug off any ideas that is not saying that Bioware is stupid. But we will see when the game is out. i don't worry about it, so no problem for me.
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Jan 18, 2017 22:37:13 GMT
Even if there aren't true warships, they cant slap some guns on civilian craft? And the whole unarmed ship and rover is ON THE FREAKING ORIENTATION! Who wouldn't go "F*ck that noise" when hearing that in a galaxy that has thresher maws!? The Ryder family, apparently. The funny thing is that the Milk Way is so fearful of hostile alien races that they don't even let you activate Relays. But going to Andromeda is less risky it seems. Yeah, they get a little nervous about home systems that serve as the foundation for thousands of years of culture and billions of lives. Yes they did. 1) The Normandy was in stealth mode. We hear Pressly say that in the opening cutscene after they drop out of FTL. The stealth system only hides heat emissions, not the actual ship. You can still see it visually, but as Adams put it "You have to be pretty close to see something in space". As for traveling at sub-light speed, they were investigating the system because of reported Geth activity in the area. 2) Most likely, a couple of things. First, they have Reaper tech so who knows what the Reapers can detect. It seems apparent that the stealth systems alone aren't enough to hide the Normandy from them. Second, that reported Geth activity was most likely a lie to lure the Normandy to that system. They knew that was the Normandy's mission, so they used that as bait and were expecting them hence pouncing on them almost immediately. 1) That's assuming they were just out there cruising through space in case any detectable geth ships might come along. That wasn't my interpretation of their mission - I expected they would be FTLing system to system to planet to look. 2) Yes, I suspect there was a ruse to get the Normandy out there for attack by the Collector vessel. As excuses go, I've heard worse (than endlessly patrolling for geth). Still - the plot demanded. we have no weapons on our vehicles we come in peace = space hippies Who has seriously made that argument? because we only have one star cluter worth of habitable planets, he might not have a choice at all. Have you seen footage of the Fiend? You are telling me you'd not rather take that on on a tank? I'm not sure Tuchanka would qualify as habitable - at least I hope the Pathfinder has higher standards than what Tuchanka would meet - including the requirement that it be currently unoccupied by other sapient life. me included, quite a few people. Because that is what we were told "we come in peace this we need to have weaponless vehicles so we do not antagonize the alien races we come in contact with" Sounds like hippy bullshit to me. I am all on board with coming in peace but if the races we encounter are not peaceful I want to be able to defend myself. Case in point, the yahg. Tuchanka is habitable, not optimal but habitable. Point being if a planet like tuchanka is one of the very few we can inhabit and/or it has unique resources that need to be tended to then we might very well need that freaking tank.
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Post by spacebeetle on Jan 18, 2017 22:37:50 GMT
You know the one argument that I am surprised has not been advanced (that I have seen anyways) Is if the Tempest did have weapons it would be just asking for trouble. Even the original SR-1 is bigger then it. So even if it did have weapons to defend itself pretty uch everything it would run into would rip it apart limb for limb. Running away is its only option really for survival. Now the Nomad is a different story, but again, been there. And GARDIAN lasers stink apparently.
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Post by spacebeetle on Jan 18, 2017 22:38:59 GMT
It should have been the SSV Shitstorm. The Alliance Navy has the rights to that name. My bad, I mean the Slippery Slope Vehicle Shitstorm.
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Post by Iakus on Jan 18, 2017 22:42:09 GMT
me included, quite a few people. Because that is what we were told "we come in peace this we need to have weaponless vehicles so we do not antagonize the alien races we come in contact with" Sounds like hippy bullshit to me. I am all on board with coming in peace but if the races we encounter are not peaceful I want to be able to defend myself. Case in point, the yahg. Tuchanka is habitable, not optimal but habitable. Point being if a planet like tuchanka is one of the very few we can inhabit and/or it has unique resources that need to be tended to then we might very well need that freaking tank. I play as paragon as anyone and even I think this is Stupid Good
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Post by colfoley on Jan 18, 2017 22:42:39 GMT
You know the one argument that I am surprised has not been advanced (that I have seen anyways) Is if the Tempest did have weapons it would be just asking for trouble. Even the original SR-1 is bigger then it. So even if it did have weapons to defend itself pretty uch everything it would run into would rip it apart limb for limb. Running away is its only option really for survival. Now the Nomad is a different story, but again, been there. And GARDIAN lasers stink apparently. Generally speaking? Yes. They are the modern day equivalent of Phalanx batteries on our Aircraft carriers. Strictly anti missile or anti fighter defense. Though there was the GARDIAN ground based system which 'drove off' the Collector ship so...maybe?
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Jan 18, 2017 22:48:39 GMT
me included, quite a few people. Because that is what we were told "we come in peace this we need to have weaponless vehicles so we do not antagonize the alien races we come in contact with" Sounds like hippy bullshit to me. I am all on board with coming in peace but if the races we encounter are not peaceful I want to be able to defend myself. Case in point, the yahg. Tuchanka is habitable, not optimal but habitable. Point being if a planet like tuchanka is one of the very few we can inhabit and/or it has unique resources that need to be tended to then we might very well need that freaking tank. I play as paragon as anyone and even I think this is Stupid Goodyou mean lawful stupid lol
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Post by Iakus on Jan 18, 2017 22:49:24 GMT
And GARDIAN lasers stink apparently. Generally speaking? Yes. They are the modern day equivalent of Phalanx batteries on our Aircraft carriers. Strictly anti missile or anti fighter defense. Though there was the GARDIAN ground based system which 'drove off' the Collector ship so...maybe? I dunno what kind of GARIDAN it was, but it wasn't what they mount on ships. Those are directed energy weapons, and the one on Horizon was clearly a cannon of some kind.
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Post by spacebeetle on Jan 18, 2017 22:50:05 GMT
And GARDIAN lasers stink apparently. Generally speaking? Yes. They are the modern day equivalent of Phalanx batteries on our Aircraft carriers. Strictly anti missile or anti fighter defense. Though there was the GARDIAN ground based system which 'drove off' the Collector ship so...maybe? Still, they seem in universe quite simplistic to use, maintain and install. OK, the Tempest didn’t come with its main cannon pre-installed. I can even believe that. But as we’ve seen in ME2/ME3, it isn’t impossible to tweak up some form of cannon on a ship and retrofit with some serious firepower even small boats (Quarian flotilla in ME3, and we know that many ships in the Flotilla are very old, so there isn’t really any tech barrier). AND GARDIAN are used more in a defensive role anyway: I mean, why not putting them at least on the Tempest?
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Post by colfoley on Jan 18, 2017 22:51:49 GMT
Generally speaking? Yes. They are the modern day equivalent of Phalanx batteries on our Aircraft carriers. Strictly anti missile or anti fighter defense. Though there was the GARDIAN ground based system which 'drove off' the Collector ship so...maybe? Still, they seem in universe quite simplistic to use, maintain and install. OK, the Tempest didn’t come with its main cannon pre-installed. I can even believe that. But as we’ve seen in ME2/ME3, it isn’t impossible to tweak up some form of cannon on a ship and retrofit with some serious firepower even small boats (Quarian flotilla in ME3, and we know that many ships in the Flotilla are very old, so there isn’t really any tech barrier). AND GARDIAN are used more in a defensive role anyway: I mean, why not putting them at least on the Tempest? We don't know that we can't. I mean I doubt we can but we don't know. All we know is the Tempest does not have arms when we first get our hands on her.
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Post by spacebeetle on Jan 18, 2017 22:54:35 GMT
Still, they seem in universe quite simplistic to use, maintain and install. OK, the Tempest didn’t come with its main cannon pre-installed. I can even believe that. But as we’ve seen in ME2/ME3, it isn’t impossible to tweak up some form of cannon on a ship and retrofit with some serious firepower even small boats (Quarian flotilla in ME3, and we know that many ships in the Flotilla are very old, so there isn’t really any tech barrier). AND GARDIAN are used more in a defensive role anyway: I mean, why not putting them at least on the Tempest? We don't know that we can't. I mean I doubt we can but we don't know. All we know is the Tempest does not have arms when we first get our hands on her. Considering the amount of plot armour embedded in the Tempest, I suppose we will able to go for full ramming speed.
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Post by Iakus on Jan 18, 2017 22:54:47 GMT
I play as paragon as anyone and even I think this is Stupid Goodyou mean lawful stupid lol Nah, being so trusting you'll go out exploring strange new worlds trusting that nothing's going to try to kill and eat you is "stupid good" Though I suppose passively following those guidelines without an argument when you should know better is Lawful Stupid...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 22:55:31 GMT
All I know is that the ship is staying true to its name in this thread. They got that right, at least. It should have been the SSV Shitstorm. Nexus Control, this is the Shitstorm, approaching...
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Post by colfoley on Jan 18, 2017 22:57:05 GMT
We don't know that we can't. I mean I doubt we can but we don't know. All we know is the Tempest does not have arms when we first get our hands on her. Considering the amount of plot armour embedded in the Tempest, I suppose we will able to go for full ramming speed. I was going to say something but then realized this post is really funny.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jan 18, 2017 23:00:08 GMT
No, what people have showed is that there is multiple way it can be viewed. The problem is that there are people that just shrug off any ideas that is not saying that Bioware is stupid. But we will see when the game is out. i don't worry about it, so no problem for me. How else can you view a glaring omission that may cost lives and doom the entire otherwise meticulously planned (well, we hope) expedition, other than stupid? There aren't any, apart from absurdities and you know it. If ME:A was a confirmed satire of Mass Effect (or other similar works) I'd be right with you. But I was under the impression this was meant to be serious.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 23:00:41 GMT
me included, quite a few people. Because that is what we were told "we come in peace this we need to have weaponless vehicles so we do not antagonize the alien races we come in contact with" There have been quite a few suggestions made ranging from intentional design decisions/restrictions to oversights. If you've missed them, that's on you. You'd need a pretty big bomber fleet and army to conquer Tuchanka. By the time you removed all krogan resistance, there'd be even less habitable planet left. The AI does not appear to be geared up for that kind of conquest.
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Post by spacebeetle on Jan 18, 2017 23:02:09 GMT
Considering the amount of plot armour embedded in the Tempest, I suppose we will able to go for full ramming speed. I was going to say something but then realized this post is really funny.
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