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Post by CrutchCricket on Jan 29, 2017 1:27:29 GMT
I love the way in this thread people are justifying not have a thanix cannon on board by saying it would be heavier and make the ship slower and less agile. Lets forget the fact they all technology is based on mass effect and also there is no weight in space if you are not near a gravity well like a planet or something. Simply by activating a Mass effect field, the ship has no mass (otherwise it cant FTL) and because its in space it has no weight, so you can go as fast as you want and be as agile as you want. If your thrust accelerates, your ship accelerates indefinitely, getting faster and faster because there is 0 mass and F=MA doesn't apply if m= 0. Although not an expert, what happens when force is applied to an object with O mass to propel it when it travels slower than light? I wouldn't bother with lore or physics. People have decided they'd rather be illogical and substitute reality rather than admit fault with the game/developers so there's not much left to say. If nearly 50 pages and a trailer didn't convince them, another 50 sure won't.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2017 1:40:32 GMT
I love the way in this thread people are justifying not have a thanix cannon on board by saying it would be heavier and make the ship slower and less agile. Lets forget the fact they all technology is based on mass effect and also there is no weight in space if you are not near a gravity well like a planet or something. Simply by activating a Mass effect field, the ship has no mass (otherwise it cant FTL) and because its in space it has no weight, so you can go as fast as you want and be as agile as you want. If your thrust accelerates, your ship accelerates indefinitely, getting faster and faster because there is 0 mass and F=MA doesn't apply if m= 0. Although not an expert, what happens when force is applied to an object with O mass to propel it when it travels slower than light? I wouldn't bother with lore or physics. People have decided they'd rather be illogical and substitute reality rather than admit fault with the game/developers so there's not much left to say. If nearly 50 pages and a trailer didn't convince them, another 50 sure won't. Arguments of some people here: "If you have weapons, they will see you as a threat and attack. It's better to not have them!! They made the right choice!" #WeComeInPeace New trailer: Tempest in front of Kett Armada Kett - "Surrender or burn!!" Pilot - "They got us pinned against the scourge!" Me: And now, going back to:
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jan 29, 2017 1:47:10 GMT
Gotta admit, I don't get the Olsen Twins thing...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2017 1:56:03 GMT
Gotta admit, I don't get the Olsen Twins thing... Now I'm just lurking this thread.
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Post by Cyonan on Jan 29, 2017 5:08:23 GMT
Sorry the last paragraph is wrong because I was drunk at the time but now I am sober and what you have stated doesn't make a shred of sense. It is not possible for a ship to have mass even in a mass effect field, otherwise according to einsteins equation, it is not possible to exceed the speed of light unless you have come up with a way to divide by 0? Newtons laws do not apply to something with 0 mass because his physics did not take into account objects with 0 mass. Mass effect fields are required to reduce the spaceship mass to 0 in FTL but I dont see why the same ME field cant be active at speeds slower than light as well. Its also not hard to be weightless in deep space far outside of any star system of astronomical body. We're not talking about flying near a planet like earth, we're talking way way out. Also they have been testing this drive since it was created in the 1990s. So the americans and the chinese and the russians have had 30 years to test it, and so far it checks out.
Actually the Mass Effect lore states that a mass effect field can either increase or decrease the mass of an object within the field by subjecting Element Zero to an electrical current. The stronger the electrical current the stronger the effect of the Mass Effect field. It's not just a simple "Set it to zero" switch. The problem is that a normal object having no mass poses some issues in physics to begin with, so we have to accept that at some point Mass Effect is already not making sense. However what we do know is that ships move at different speeds and that the Normandy was one of the fastest ships, but we have to ask why. If all ships had no mass it would really only matter as to how much force your engines could put out meaning that the biggest engines would result in the fastest ships. However the Normandy was nowhere near the biggest, so why aren't Dreadnoughts the fastest ships in the Mass Effect universe? Not counting Reapers of course because they use advanced tech. The conclusion is that the mass effect field would very likely need to work by keeping some mass on the ship but reducing it below the infinite that it's supposed to be at when going at the speed of light. It doesn't make a lot of sense but as I said earlier, we already have to accept that something in Mass Effect's physics isn't going to make sense. Keep in mind that certain objects in space have very massive gravitational fields. The entire Milky Way still revolves around Sagittarius A*, better known as the super massive black hole at the center of our galaxy. It's true that you wouldn't have much weight and you probably wouldn't notice it, but you would technically still have a minuscule amount of weight because you're still within the gravitational influence of it. As to once you get outside of the galaxy, it's unknown if there is something that our galaxy revolves around.
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Post by Pearl on Jan 29, 2017 5:34:06 GMT
People care way too much about whether or not an imaginary space ship in a video game has a pretend laser gun on it.
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Post by Sondergaard on Jan 29, 2017 9:11:12 GMT
People care way too much about whether or not an imaginary space ship in a video game has a pretend laser gun on it. No, people care way too much about internal consistency and common sense in a much loved game franchise. If they can make such a nonsensical decision about this, what else have they ballsed up? That's where I'm coming from.
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Post by theorigcylonhybrid on Jan 29, 2017 15:13:52 GMT
Sorry the last paragraph is wrong because I was drunk at the time but now I am sober and what you have stated doesn't make a shred of sense. It is not possible for a ship to have mass even in a mass effect field, otherwise according to einsteins equation, it is not possible to exceed the speed of light unless you have come up with a way to divide by 0? Newtons laws do not apply to something with 0 mass because his physics did not take into account objects with 0 mass. Mass effect fields are required to reduce the spaceship mass to 0 in FTL but I dont see why the same ME field cant be active at speeds slower than light as well. Its also not hard to be weightless in deep space far outside of any star system of astronomical body. We're not talking about flying near a planet like earth, we're talking way way out. Also they have been testing this drive since it was created in the 1990s. So the americans and the chinese and the russians have had 30 years to test it, and so far it checks out.
Actually the Mass Effect lore states that a mass effect field can either increase or decrease the mass of an object within the field by subjecting Element Zero to an electrical current. The stronger the electrical current the stronger the effect of the Mass Effect field. It's not just a simple "Set it to zero" switch. The problem is that a normal object having no mass poses some issues in physics to begin with, so we have to accept that at some point Mass Effect is already not making sense. However what we do know is that ships move at different speeds and that the Normandy was one of the fastest ships, but we have to ask why. If all ships had no mass it would really only matter as to how much force your engines could put out meaning that the biggest engines would result in the fastest ships. However the Normandy was nowhere near the biggest, so why aren't Dreadnoughts the fastest ships in the Mass Effect universe? Not counting Reapers of course because they use advanced tech. The conclusion is that the mass effect field would very likely need to work by keeping some mass on the ship but reducing it below the infinite that it's supposed to be at when going at the speed of light. It doesn't make a lot of sense but as I said earlier, we already have to accept that something in Mass Effect's physics isn't going to make sense. Keep in mind that certain objects in space have very massive gravitational fields. The entire Milky Way still revolves around Sagittarius A*, better known as the super massive black hole at the center of our galaxy. It's true that you wouldn't have much weight and you probably wouldn't notice it, but you would technically still have a minuscule amount of weight because you're still within the gravitational influence of it. As to once you get outside of the galaxy, it's unknown if there is something that our galaxy revolves around. Yes, I know how ME works in game. Im just saying that the ME field must be able to set mass to 0 in order to achieve FTL. We know these ships achieve FTL, therefore we know they can set their mass to 0 using a ME field properly calibrated. I don't know what you mean when you say ''The conclusion is that the mass effect field would very likely need to work by keeping some mass on the ship but reducing it below the infinite that it's supposed to be at when going at the speed of light.'' That statement makes no sense. You either have no mass at all and go FTL or you have even the tiniest bit of mass and FTL is impossible. There is no in between. If have to look at Einsteins equation. If mass is anything above 0, FTL is not possible. Also this is physics in the future in a game, so we have to assume that perhaps some of our current physics was not completely correct under all conditions for reasons not currently known. There has to be some element of disbelief because it is science fiction not science fact. Also it is possible that other ME ships didn't activate their ME drives to reduce mass below FTL speeds for maneurability and speed because they didn't have ODSY drives and there would be a constant buildup of charge, which is not good in deep space with nowhere to discharge. The use of the ODSY drive which reabsorbs charge power allows ME fields to be maintained for longer and under non FTL conditions. Also the gravity you are talking about relative to the galactic centre etc is so miniscule, we can assume it is 0 for our purposes.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Jan 29, 2017 15:52:59 GMT
Err... evasive maneuvers while they fight to get far enough away from the big ship to jump to FTL? See: any similar scene in any sci-fi/space opera ever. The big ship is probably too big but the little ones? They look vulnerable enough to at least flinch from supressing fire. So where's the firepower or indeed the vaunted speed/maneuverability people wouldn't shut up about earlier? Why didn't Joker do that at the beginning of ME2? Was it because he really is a bad pilot? To be honest, that occurred because it was necessary to the plot. Kind of like how in To Kill a Mockingbird the father didn't attend his daughter's play at the end. Everything before in the book suggests he would never miss it, but he does so that the plot can continue.
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Post by Cyonan on Jan 29, 2017 22:33:30 GMT
Yes, I know how ME works in game. Im just saying that the ME field must be able to set mass to 0 in order to achieve FTL. We know these ships achieve FTL, therefore we know they can set their mass to 0 using a ME field properly calibrated. I don't know what you mean when you say ''The conclusion is that the mass effect field would very likely need to work by keeping some mass on the ship but reducing it below the infinite that it's supposed to be at when going at the speed of light.'' That statement makes no sense. You either have no mass at all and go FTL or you have even the tiniest bit of mass and FTL is impossible. There is no in between. If have to look at Einsteins equation. If mass is anything above 0, FTL is not possible. Also this is physics in the future in a game, so we have to assume that perhaps some of our current physics was not completely correct under all conditions for reasons not currently known. There has to be some element of disbelief because it is science fiction not science fact. Also it is possible that other ME ships didn't activate their ME drives to reduce mass below FTL speeds for maneurability and speed because they didn't have ODSY drives and there would be a constant buildup of charge, which is not good in deep space with nowhere to discharge. The use of the ODSY drive which reabsorbs charge power allows ME fields to be maintained for longer and under non FTL conditions. Also the gravity you are talking about relative to the galactic centre etc is so miniscule, we can assume it is 0 for our purposes. So I finally found the lore entry I was actually looking for last time, from the original Mass Effect game about FTL Drives: "Faster-than-light drives use element zero cores to reduce the mass of the ship, allowing higher rates of acceleration. This effectively raises the speed of light within the mass effect field, allowing high speed travel with negligible relativistic time dilation effects. The amount of eezo and power required for a drive increases exponentially to the mass being moved and the degree it is being lightened. Very massive ships or very high speeds are prohibitively expensive". The first paragraph notes that rather than reducing the mass to 0 it's just increasing the speed of light around the ship to break the whole "moving at light speed means you have infinite mass" thing. Yeah it's cheating the system, but that's how they designed it. The second paragraph notes that the speed of the ship is affected by how much you're lightening it, otherwise all ships in the Mass Effect universe would move at speeds 100% dependent on the engines and how much delta-v they can put out(assuming we're ignoring all the other issues that happen as a result of a massless object). That would mean it makes no sense for anything but the largest ships to be the fastest ships, as mass is no longer a factor in acceleration. However the Normandy was one of the fastest ships in the OT and the Tempest is being billed as just as fast if not even faster.
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Post by Thrombin on Jan 29, 2017 22:58:30 GMT
I've been away from the thread for a few weeks so apologies if this was already discussed but, as I understand it, the Normandy was really fast because the drive was much bigger than normal for the size of the ship. So the speed is really about the ratio between the drive core size and the ship's mass.
In fact, the speed may actually be down to just how fast you can get the mass down to a small enough value. The quicker you can reduce the mass the quicker you can start accelarating at FTL and the earlier you start accelerating the less time it takes to get to the maximum speed and thus the further you travel in the time.
I don't think it's as simple about the Normandy going down to 0 mass anyway since everyone inside the ship is clearly not weightless. I believe EDI talks about the mass effect field forming a sort of bubble of space/time around the ship (which also protects the hull from damage from micro-particles). So whatever the field is doing it's not quite as simple as just making everything zero mass.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Jan 30, 2017 4:06:06 GMT
So I finally found the lore entry I was actually looking for last time, from the original Mass Effect game about FTL Drives: "Faster-than-light drives use element zero cores to reduce the mass of the ship, allowing higher rates of acceleration. This effectively raises the speed of light within the mass effect field, allowing high speed travel with negligible relativistic time dilation effects. The amount of eezo and power required for a drive increases exponentially to the mass being moved and the degree it is being lightened. Very massive ships or very high speeds are prohibitively expensive". The first paragraph notes that rather than reducing the mass to 0 it's just increasing the speed of light around the ship to break the whole "moving at light speed means you have infinite mass" thing. Yeah it's cheating the system, but that's how they designed it. The second paragraph notes that the speed of the ship is affected by how much you're lightening it, otherwise all ships in the Mass Effect universe would move at speeds 100% dependent on the engines and how much delta-v they can put out(assuming we're ignoring all the other issues that happen as a result of a massless object). That would mean it makes no sense for anything but the largest ships to be the fastest ships, as mass is no longer a factor in acceleration. However the Normandy was one of the fastest ships in the OT and the Tempest is being billed as just as fast if not even faster. I agree with your post up until the last section where you say "That would mean it makes no sense for anything but the largest ships to be the fastest ship..." Perhaps you can explain what you mean there? For me it would imply the opposite. Smaller ships have less mass, and thus would be easier to reduce to a small mass as per your quote "The amount of eezo and power required for a drive increases exponentially to the mass being moved and the degree it is being lightened. Very massive ships or very high speeds are prohibitively expensive." So larger ships would need much more energy put into the core and more eezo to reduce their mass and it would probably be reduced to more than what the smaller ship would be reduced to. We'll say just for sake of giggles that it takes 1.21 gigawatts to reduce the Tempest to 1 gram (grams are units of mass, not weight). We'll say the Tempest was originally 2,000 kg. So the ARK, lets say, starts off at 2 billion kg. It takes exponentially more energy to reduce the mass of larger ships, as stated in your quote, and thus we know it will take more than 1,210,000 gigawatts to reduce the Ark to a similar amount (approx 1 gram) as the Tempest. Staggeringly more, as 1,210,000 gigawatts is linear to 1.21, so we are talking HUGELY more. Therefore, to take less energy, the Ark drive core might reduce the weight to 1 kg instead of 1 g. This would, I believe, mean that with a similarly-scaled propulsion drive the Tempest should be faster because it would have less mass. Note: None of the figures presented are supposed to be realistic. Please don't argue that "you can't go faster than light at 1 kg." They are just easy numbers. Unless I am missing something. Which I very well could be. Because lightspeed and mass and relativity are all difficult for me to wrap my head around fully.
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Post by Cyonan on Jan 30, 2017 4:40:36 GMT
I agree with your post up until the last section where you say "That would mean it makes no sense for anything but the largest ships to be the fastest ship..." Perhaps you can explain what you mean there? For me it would imply the opposite. Smaller ships have less mass, and thus would be easier to reduce to a small mass as per your quote "The amount of eezo and power required for a drive increases exponentially to the mass being moved and the degree it is being lightened. Very massive ships or very high speeds are prohibitively expensive." So larger ships would need much more energy put into the core and more eezo to reduce their mass and it would probably be reduced to more than what the smaller ship would be reduced to. We'll say just for sake of giggles that it takes 1.21 gigawatts to reduce the Tempest to 1 gram (grams are units of mass, not weight). We'll say the Tempest was originally 2,000 kg. So the ARK, lets say, starts off at 2 billion kg. It takes exponentially more energy to reduce the mass of larger ships, as stated in your quote, and thus we know it will take more than 1,210,000 gigawatts to reduce the Ark to a similar amount (approx 1 gram) as the Tempest. Staggeringly more, as 1,210,000 gigawatts is linear to 1.21, so we are talking HUGELY more. Therefore, to take less energy, the Ark drive core might reduce the weight to 1 kg instead of 1 g. This would, I believe, mean that with a similarly-scaled propulsion drive the Tempest should be faster because it would have less mass. Note: None of the figures presented are supposed to be realistic. Please don't argue that "you can't go faster than light at 1 kg." They are just easy numbers. Unless I am missing something. Which I very well could be. Because lightspeed and mass and relativity are all difficult for me to wrap my head around fully. Well the original argument presented against me was that all ships in Mass Effect going at FTL speeds had zero mass with the thinking that since traveling at the speed of light means you have infinite mass even 0.000000000000000001 grams would instantly turn into infinite as you hit the speed of light. I was pointing out that if that were true, it would make no sense for smaller ships to be faster since at that point the only factor in acceleration would be how much force you can exert on an object. This is of course ignoring all the other things you just broke by setting an object's mass to 0 =P Though the Mass Effect codex confirms that inside the mass effect field they cheat the system by altering the speed of light, making it so that your mass doesn't go to infinite because you're not at the "increased speed of light" while reducing the mass of the ship to allow for easier acceleration but not actually reducing it to be completely massless.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Jan 30, 2017 4:54:15 GMT
I agree with your post up until the last section where you say "That would mean it makes no sense for anything but the largest ships to be the fastest ship..." Perhaps you can explain what you mean there? For me it would imply the opposite. Smaller ships have less mass, and thus would be easier to reduce to a small mass as per your quote "The amount of eezo and power required for a drive increases exponentially to the mass being moved and the degree it is being lightened. Very massive ships or very high speeds are prohibitively expensive." So larger ships would need much more energy put into the core and more eezo to reduce their mass and it would probably be reduced to more than what the smaller ship would be reduced to. We'll say just for sake of giggles that it takes 1.21 gigawatts to reduce the Tempest to 1 gram (grams are units of mass, not weight). We'll say the Tempest was originally 2,000 kg. So the ARK, lets say, starts off at 2 billion kg. It takes exponentially more energy to reduce the mass of larger ships, as stated in your quote, and thus we know it will take more than 1,210,000 gigawatts to reduce the Ark to a similar amount (approx 1 gram) as the Tempest. Staggeringly more, as 1,210,000 gigawatts is linear to 1.21, so we are talking HUGELY more. Therefore, to take less energy, the Ark drive core might reduce the weight to 1 kg instead of 1 g. This would, I believe, mean that with a similarly-scaled propulsion drive the Tempest should be faster because it would have less mass. Note: None of the figures presented are supposed to be realistic. Please don't argue that "you can't go faster than light at 1 kg." They are just easy numbers. Unless I am missing something. Which I very well could be. Because lightspeed and mass and relativity are all difficult for me to wrap my head around fully. Well the original argument presented against me was that all ships in Mass Effect going at FTL speeds had zero mass with the thinking that since traveling at the speed of light means you have infinite mass even 0.000000000000000001 grams would instantly turn into infinite as you hit the speed of light. I was pointing out that if that were true, it would make no sense for smaller ships to be faster since at that point the only factor in acceleration would be how much force you can exert on an object. This is of course ignoring all the other things you just broke by setting an object's mass to 0 =P Though the Mass Effect codex confirms that inside the mass effect field they cheat the system by altering the speed of light, making it so that your mass doesn't go to infinite because you're not at the "increased speed of light" while reducing the mass of the ship to allow for easier acceleration but not actually reducing it to be completely massless. Ah, I see! Cool. I get what you were saying now. Sorry for not understanding initially. Sometimes I require extra help.
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Post by theorigcylonhybrid on Jan 30, 2017 17:03:54 GMT
Yes, I know how ME works in game. Im just saying that the ME field must be able to set mass to 0 in order to achieve FTL. We know these ships achieve FTL, therefore we know they can set their mass to 0 using a ME field properly calibrated. I don't know what you mean when you say ''The conclusion is that the mass effect field would very likely need to work by keeping some mass on the ship but reducing it below the infinite that it's supposed to be at when going at the speed of light.'' That statement makes no sense. You either have no mass at all and go FTL or you have even the tiniest bit of mass and FTL is impossible. There is no in between. If have to look at Einsteins equation. If mass is anything above 0, FTL is not possible. Also this is physics in the future in a game, so we have to assume that perhaps some of our current physics was not completely correct under all conditions for reasons not currently known. There has to be some element of disbelief because it is science fiction not science fact. Also it is possible that other ME ships didn't activate their ME drives to reduce mass below FTL speeds for maneurability and speed because they didn't have ODSY drives and there would be a constant buildup of charge, which is not good in deep space with nowhere to discharge. The use of the ODSY drive which reabsorbs charge power allows ME fields to be maintained for longer and under non FTL conditions. Also the gravity you are talking about relative to the galactic centre etc is so miniscule, we can assume it is 0 for our purposes. So I finally found the lore entry I was actually looking for last time, from the original Mass Effect game about FTL Drives: "Faster-than-light drives use element zero cores to reduce the mass of the ship, allowing higher rates of acceleration. This effectively raises the speed of light within the mass effect field, allowing high speed travel with negligible relativistic time dilation effects. The amount of eezo and power required for a drive increases exponentially to the mass being moved and the degree it is being lightened. Very massive ships or very high speeds are prohibitively expensive". The first paragraph notes that rather than reducing the mass to 0 it's just increasing the speed of light around the ship to break the whole "moving at light speed means you have infinite mass" thing. Yeah it's cheating the system, but that's how they designed it. The second paragraph notes that the speed of the ship is affected by how much you're lightening it, otherwise all ships in the Mass Effect universe would move at speeds 100% dependent on the engines and how much delta-v they can put out(assuming we're ignoring all the other issues that happen as a result of a massless object). That would mean it makes no sense for anything but the largest ships to be the fastest ships, as mass is no longer a factor in acceleration. However the Normandy was one of the fastest ships in the OT and the Tempest is being billed as just as fast if not even faster. OK, I know this is in the codex but I don't see any real world physics parallels that suggests lowering the mass somehow raises the speed of light since the speed of light is a constant for objects of every mass. Or why doesn't light travel infinitely faster than the current speed of light since it has no mass. It would have made partial sense if the mass effect field reduced mass to 0 even though that introduces more problems in physics. It would have been better if they had used an alcubierre drive like star trek since that has real world physics behind it. How else do you explain a 13 billion year old universe being greater than 40 billion light years across? And it is continuing to expand at FTL speeds. I know its science fiction but that codex entry doesn't even try to use real world physics to explain it, at least partially.
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Post by Cyonan on Jan 30, 2017 21:02:20 GMT
OK, I know this is in the codex but I don't see any real world physics parallels that suggests lowering the mass somehow raises the speed of light since the speed of light is a constant for objects of every mass. Or why doesn't light travel infinitely faster than the current speed of light since it has no mass. It would have made partial sense if the mass effect field reduced mass to 0 even though that introduces more problems in physics. It would have been better if they had used an alcubierre drive like star trek since that has real world physics behind it. How else do you explain a 13 billion year old universe being greater than 40 billion light years across? And it is continuing to expand at FTL speeds. I know its science fiction but that codex entry doesn't even try to use real world physics to explain it, at least partially. That's unfortunately how a lot of things in Mass Effect work, in that they don't if you stop to think about it for too long. True FTL travel just causes so many issues that you have to break our current understanding of physics at some point in order to do it so it probably would have been easier if they just used the "we're folding space to only make it look like it's FTL" that many other things use. but this is what they went with.
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Post by Thrombin on Jan 31, 2017 10:50:28 GMT
One of EDI's little musings in the cockpit was to theorize if there might be other universes in which physics didn't work the same way as their own Universe. Where, say, 1+1=3 and everything would be different.
That's almost certainly a nod to the idea that the physics of the Mass Effect universe aren't our world's physics.
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Post by Ahriman on Jan 31, 2017 11:38:37 GMT
I agree with your post up until the last section where you say "That would mean it makes no sense for anything but the largest ships to be the fastest ship..." Perhaps you can explain what you mean there? For me it would imply the opposite. Smaller ships have less mass, and thus would be easier to reduce to a small mass as per your quote "The amount of eezo and power required for a drive increases exponentially to the mass being moved and the degree it is being lightened. Very massive ships or very high speeds are prohibitively expensive." So larger ships would need much more energy put into the core and more eezo to reduce their mass and it would probably be reduced to more than what the smaller ship would be reduced to. We'll say just for sake of giggles that it takes 1.21 gigawatts to reduce the Tempest to 1 gram (grams are units of mass, not weight). We'll say the Tempest was originally 2,000 kg. So the ARK, lets say, starts off at 2 billion kg. It takes exponentially more energy to reduce the mass of larger ships, as stated in your quote, and thus we know it will take more than 1,210,000 gigawatts to reduce the Ark to a similar amount (approx 1 gram) as the Tempest. Staggeringly more, as 1,210,000 gigawatts is linear to 1.21, so we are talking HUGELY more. Therefore, to take less energy, the Ark drive core might reduce the weight to 1 kg instead of 1 g. This would, I believe, mean that with a similarly-scaled propulsion drive the Tempest should be faster because it would have less mass. Note: None of the figures presented are supposed to be realistic. Please don't argue that "you can't go faster than light at 1 kg." They are just easy numbers. Unless I am missing something. Which I very well could be. Because lightspeed and mass and relativity are all difficult for me to wrap my head around fully. Well the original argument presented against me was that all ships in Mass Effect going at FTL speeds had zero mass with the thinking that since traveling at the speed of light means you have infinite mass even 0.000000000000000001 grams would instantly turn into infinite as you hit the speed of light. I was pointing out that if that were true, it would make no sense for smaller ships to be faster since at that point the only factor in acceleration would be how much force you can exert on an object. This is of course ignoring all the other things you just broke by setting an object's mass to 0 =P Though the Mass Effect codex confirms that inside the mass effect field they cheat the system by altering the speed of light, making it so that your mass doesn't go to infinite because you're not at the "increased speed of light" while reducing the mass of the ship to allow for easier acceleration but not actually reducing it to be completely massless. As far as my space-magic degree goes, it's not exactly like this. Mass Effect field shifts relativity, the more mass inside it is reduced the higher speed (of light) becomes. Mass of the ship never becomes zero, but when (correlation is irrelevant, actual formulae doesn't exist) it's reduced in half everything's speed inside is doubled. I.e. before FTL jump your speed was 200 000 km/s, after mass reduction it becomes 400 000 km/s while speed of light becomes 600 000 km/s.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2017 11:44:23 GMT
In light of the fact that this debate still rages on, I'm adding in as "food for thought" the literary reference to The Tempest and what that might means for the use of plot devices in Andromeda: 'Miranda' was a name taken rather obviously from the play, The Tempest*: A girl raised with 'special care', by a powerful father. The name means 'to be marveled at' anyway. -- though the parallels kind of end there; as far as I know, ME's Miranda wasn't really isolated from the rest of the world, such that joining Cerberus was like entering a 'brave new world' for her. Or maybe it was. Though in the case of MEA's ship, I really can't see what the connection could be; there's none, probably. (*Of course I don't mean to suggest that there could be a 'connection' between MEA's ship, and ME2's Miranda)
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Post by Thrombin on Jan 31, 2017 23:53:12 GMT
I've been away from the thread for a few weeks so apologies if this was already discussed but, as I understand it, the Normandy was really fast because the drive was much bigger than normal for the size of the ship. So the speed is really about the ratio between the drive core size and the ship's mass. In fact, the speed may actually be down to just how fast you can get the mass down to a small enough value. The quicker you can reduce the mass the quicker you can start accelarating at FTL and the earlier you start accelerating the less time it takes to get to the maximum speed and thus the further you travel in the time. I don't think it's as simple about the Normandy going down to 0 mass anyway since everyone inside the ship is clearly not weightless. I believe EDI talks about the mass effect field forming a sort of bubble of space/time around the ship (which also protects the hull from damage from micro-particles). So whatever the field is doing it's not quite as simple as just making everything zero mass. So I took the game for a spin and what EDI actually says is "The envelope of mass-free space we create when we travel at FTL limits any impact of microcollisions..." So, somehow, the space around us has no mass but we clearly do. Space magic indeed
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