inherit
Psi-Cop
38
0
Feb 21, 2019 15:55:45 GMT
10,231
CrutchCricket
The Emperor Daft Serious
4,577
August 2016
crutchcricket
CrutchCricket
Mass Effect Trilogy
|
Post by CrutchCricket on Jan 24, 2017 16:32:53 GMT
If you think that none of this could be explained by the plot or anything, then I task you to read some of the last 40 pages, many of which have perfectly logical arguments. If you still think there's no way the plot could explain this and that there's no possible logical explanation, then I task you to exercise your imagination in some way because if you can't imagine someway to have this explained then I wonder how you manage to play any sci-fi game at all. What arguments? 44 pages of "it's a scout lolololol" over and over again despite several people giving you proof after proof and justification after justification for precisely why that doesn't fly as well as every real or fictional example under the sun of what actual scout vessels have (protip: it's armaments) and still you insist on repeating the same thing. I would also appreciate it if you didn't try to imply that I or others arguing similar positions are lacking imagination for pointing out the obvious, as if we simply can't grasp the brilliance of the writing. This is "art" all over again and you know it. It was insulting when BioWare did it for the endings and it's insulting when you do it now.
|
|
Sondergaard
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR
Posts: 572 Likes: 975
inherit
1505
0
Sept 27, 2024 16:57:55 GMT
975
Sondergaard
572
Sept 8, 2016 21:17:59 GMT
September 2016
sondergaard
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR
|
Post by Sondergaard on Jan 24, 2017 16:38:28 GMT
Since humanity has been arming scouts since, well, forever, it is simply bizarre that the Tempest is not armed. Egyptian officer- 'Hotep, get on your horse and check over that mountain for the enemy' Hotep- 'Can I have a spear?' Egyptian officer- 'No! You have a horse! What need do you have for a spear?' Hotep- 'The enemy have horses as well.' Egyptian officer- 'But your horse is faster! And smaller! And very quiet!' Hotep- 'How do you know?' Egyptian officer- 'Hotep...' Hotep- 'What about a bow?' Egyptian officer- 'Get on the bloody horse!' Etc, etc. Acually, if you look at military history you will certainly find enough stupidity to actually make the decision to not have weapons in the Tempest quite real. Not trying to deny that. Point is, they usually didn't wilfully go out of their way to make those bad decisions.
|
|
inherit
217
0
3,280
General Mahad
You'll be peeling goddamn potatoes for the rest of your miserable excuse for a military career!
2,043
August 2016
vaas
|
Post by General Mahad on Jan 24, 2017 19:15:58 GMT
I still have yet to hear a reason why the Tempest shouldn't have a GARDIAN system to ward off light warships, fighters, missiles, and drones.
|
|
inherit
2701
0
Feb 15, 2023 19:19:48 GMT
5,874
sgtreed24
1,947
January 2017
sgtreed24
Bottom
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
SgtReed24
STB Sgt Reed
Over 9000
um, 17?
|
Post by sgtreed24 on Jan 24, 2017 19:18:23 GMT
I still have yet to hear a reason why the Tempest shouldn't have a GARDIAN system to ward off light warships, fighters, missiles, and drones. There's been plenty of reasons given. However, there have been no GOOD ones.
|
|
inherit
♨ Retired
24
0
Member is Online
25,909
themikefest
15,523
August 2016
themikefest
21,655
15,426
|
Post by themikefest on Jan 24, 2017 19:33:23 GMT
I still have yet to hear a reason why the Tempest shouldn't have a GARDIAN system to ward off light warships, fighters, missiles, and drones. There's been plenty of reasons given. However, there have been no GOOD ones. What would be a GOOD reason for you?
|
|
inherit
2701
0
Feb 15, 2023 19:19:48 GMT
5,874
sgtreed24
1,947
January 2017
sgtreed24
Bottom
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
SgtReed24
STB Sgt Reed
Over 9000
um, 17?
|
Post by sgtreed24 on Jan 24, 2017 19:42:57 GMT
There's been plenty of reasons given. However, there have been no GOOD ones. What would be a GOOD reason for you? There wouldn't be. I would never deem it logical, practical, smart, etc to go into the unknown without a weapon. If the reason is "weight." Get rid of all the recreational and comfort providing nonsense and add weapons instead. If the reason is "ship space." Same as above. Remove non-essential areas from the ship for weapons. If the reason is "we come in peace." Hide the weapons under armor than can conceal it to look like there are no weapons, yet can be deployed when needed. If the reason is "lack of funds." Then what are they spending these funds on to where they couldn't provide light armament to a scout vessel?
|
|
inherit
♨ Retired
24
0
Member is Online
25,909
themikefest
15,523
August 2016
themikefest
21,655
15,426
|
Post by themikefest on Jan 24, 2017 19:44:44 GMT
What would be a GOOD reason for you? There wouldn't be. I would never deem it logical, practical, smart, etc to go into the unknown without a weapon. If the reason is "weight." Get rid of all the recreational and comfort providing nonsense and add weapons instead. If the reason is "ship space." Same as above. Remove non-essential areas from the ship for weapons. If the reason is "we come in peace." Hide the weapons under armor than can conceal it to look like there are no weapons, yet can be deployed when needed. If the reason is "lack of funds." Then what are they spending these funds on to where they couldn't provide light armament to a scout vessel. I misunderstood your post. My bad.
|
|
inherit
Champion of the Raven Queen
605
0
3,489
maximusarael020
1,651
August 2016
maximusarael020
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
MaximusArael020
|
Post by maximusarael020 on Jan 24, 2017 21:18:21 GMT
If you think that none of this could be explained by the plot or anything, then I task you to read some of the last 40 pages, many of which have perfectly logical arguments. If you still think there's no way the plot could explain this and that there's no possible logical explanation, then I task you to exercise your imagination in some way because if you can't imagine someway to have this explained then I wonder how you manage to play any sci-fi game at all. What arguments? 44 pages of "it's a scout lolololol" over and over again despite several people giving you proof after proof and justification after justification for precisely why that doesn't fly as well as every real or fictional example under the sun of what actual scout vessels have (protip: it's armaments) and still you insist on repeating the same thing. I would also appreciate it if you didn't try to imply that I or others arguing similar positions are lacking imagination for pointing out the obvious, as if we simply can't grasp the brilliance of the writing. This is "art" all over again and you know it. It was insulting when BioWare did it for the endings and it's insulting when you do it now. I'd also appreciate it if you didn't try to imply that arguments for not having armaments on the Tempest are "retarded". One of those sounds worse than the other (lacking imagination vs. retarded).
|
|
inherit
Psi-Cop
38
0
Feb 21, 2019 15:55:45 GMT
10,231
CrutchCricket
The Emperor Daft Serious
4,577
August 2016
crutchcricket
CrutchCricket
Mass Effect Trilogy
|
Post by CrutchCricket on Jan 24, 2017 21:28:15 GMT
I'd also appreciate it if you didn't try to imply that arguments for not having armaments on the Tempest are "retarded". One of those sounds worse than the other (lacking imagination vs. retarded). You misunderstand. These vehicles not having weapons is 100% retarded. The arguments to try and justify it attempt to lower that percentage but don't do so by much. That's not the same as saying the arguments themselves are retarded, which if they were, wouldn't do anything to lower said score. Though even if I had said one or more arguments were retarded that's not the same as saying someone lacks imagination. Attacking the argument vs attacking a person. One is indeed worse than the other.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
825
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2017 22:06:29 GMT
Is this still going on? I'd have thought there could only be so much repetition of two differing arguments before... *remembers people still arguing and debating ME3 endings* Never mind
|
|
keiji
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 73 Likes: 81
inherit
2739
0
81
keiji
73
January 2017
keiji
Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by keiji on Jan 24, 2017 22:10:50 GMT
Is this still going on? Was thinking the same thing.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
2540
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2017 22:14:05 GMT
After all these pages and the same discussion still raging on, this is all I'm gonna do from now on in this thread.
|
|
inherit
Psi-Cop
38
0
Feb 21, 2019 15:55:45 GMT
10,231
CrutchCricket
The Emperor Daft Serious
4,577
August 2016
crutchcricket
CrutchCricket
Mass Effect Trilogy
|
Post by CrutchCricket on Jan 24, 2017 22:51:58 GMT
Hey I thought it was a foregone conclusion 20 pages ago. But you know... I'll take my share of the blame for it. I've said my piece as clearly as I'm ever going to. Should make like Jimmy Smits and
|
|
spacebeetle
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy
Posts: 462 Likes: 711
inherit
2525
0
Apr 26, 2017 15:38:15 GMT
711
spacebeetle
462
January 2017
spacebeetle
Mass Effect Trilogy
|
Post by spacebeetle on Jan 24, 2017 23:00:01 GMT
It will go around and around, until a good in-universe explanation will be delivered (different from plot armour, I mean). Or until the lack of one will be confirmed. Or until the next trailer. Or until we find something more appalling to point out.
|
|
inherit
Korean Supermodel
1
0
1
7,464
Cyonan
2,189
Jul 31, 2016 20:55:30 GMT
July 2016
admin
Cyonan
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Cyonan
|
Post by Cyonan on Jan 24, 2017 23:01:21 GMT
Is this still going on? I'd have thought there could only be so much repetition of two differing arguments before... *remembers people still arguing and debating ME3 endings* Never mind You should have seen the nerf wars in the ME3 MP section while weekly balance changes were going on. Never forget those we lost during the great Tactical Cloak debates.
|
|
spacebeetle
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy
Posts: 462 Likes: 711
inherit
2525
0
Apr 26, 2017 15:38:15 GMT
711
spacebeetle
462
January 2017
spacebeetle
Mass Effect Trilogy
|
Post by spacebeetle on Jan 24, 2017 23:08:31 GMT
Is this still going on? I'd have thought there could only be so much repetition of two differing arguments before... *remembers people still arguing and debating ME3 endings* Never mind You should have seen the nerf wars in the ME3 MP section while weekly balance changes were going on. Never forget those we lost during the great Tactical Cloak debates. Shieat... The horror of those times. I still remember it. Vividly. Like a bad Vietnam train. A toast: to the old reave. Not even skrillex could do the same. MWRMWMRWMRMWMRMWRMWRMWMRMWRMWMRWMRMWMMRWMRMWMRMWRMWRMWRM
|
|
inherit
Lightning Conductor
170
0
3,653
hammerstorm
1,656
August 2016
hammerstorm
Bottom
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
Hammerst0rm
|
Post by hammerstorm on Jan 24, 2017 23:09:50 GMT
Is this still going on? I'd have thought there could only be so much repetition of two differing arguments before... *remembers people still arguing and debating ME3 endings* Never mind HA, we still have discussions about if the Reapers only existed in MW or if they was in other places to. When people don't have any facts or news they tend to go in circles.
|
|
inherit
2945
0
82
theorigcylonhybrid
186
Jan 23, 2017 18:15:21 GMT
January 2017
theorigcylonhybrid
|
Post by theorigcylonhybrid on Jan 24, 2017 23:32:41 GMT
Look everyone its quite logical, they didn't want to add weapons on board the tempest to make it lighter so it will go faster. Forget the fact that the ship has no weight at all because its in SPACE so the principles of it going faster or slower due to a heavy gun/Armour or not no longer apply. The ezero is to decrease mass not weight because weight is massXgravity, so apparently the amount of mass then must be directly proportional to ezero used in the core to produce the mass effect field. Since all ships have O weight and O mass, I fail to see how the addition of a heavy gun or armour makes the ship go faster unless you are chanelling energy that would normally go to weapons to the engines or perhaps they are getting extra energy due to the deficit in the ME field because its lighter and they don't have the means to transfer energy from one system to another (Wait what about the ODSY drive capable of transferring the ME field charge into useful energy?....cough) Since the ship is probably 99% of the time in SPACE, they could have at least added the armour and it would still be as stealthy. So really the only time it would be useful to be faster and stealthier would be within a planets gravity field and apparently the energy from something like an ODSY drive is not enough for a gun but it is enough of an energy difference for the ME field shipwide to not bother installing one to make it faster and stealthier. And the circular of logic is complete. Also even if you are using rocket fuel and not ME fields, you have to remember that the ship doesn't weight anything because its in SPACE so you use the same amount of fuel for a certain amount of thrust because of Newtons 3rd law which was seemingly broken in our own world by the Electromagnetic drive NASA is testing in SPACE. Oh Callo Jaffacake, you had us going. And you call yourself a salarian,
SPAAAAAACE...its a thing.
|
|
inherit
410
0
3,491
Sartoz
6,868
August 2016
sartoz
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.hVm-5wNStlyTEXjhwDoa_wHaEK%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=8f745a5f30b08f8231ddb64664df7375d23cc10878aa50d66fec54e9d570c7e2&ipo=images
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Sartoz on Jan 25, 2017 1:32:54 GMT
,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
Not intentionally.
If events went according to plan, there would be no mistakes. Bio writers wanted some drama or needed some for the combat rationale. Ai planned well, since the command station (Nexus) went first with some heavy hitters (N7 ??) and the ARKs would follow "after the trail was blazed.", so to speak. In a small way, that's exactly what happened.
No space battles confirmed by Bio, the issue of ship armaments resides in the arena of intellectual discussions.
The Nexus was followed by warships only for the time they were in the MW, not later on. While they might still have warships, they were inside the station in this case. I do agree that they seem foolish especially because of what happened after they reach Andromeda, but they'll still be foolish in the case they have no warships of guns on the ships. ,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
Definite foolish if the planners did not include some tough battle capable ships with the Nexus.
|
|
inherit
410
0
3,491
Sartoz
6,868
August 2016
sartoz
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.hVm-5wNStlyTEXjhwDoa_wHaEK%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=8f745a5f30b08f8231ddb64664df7375d23cc10878aa50d66fec54e9d570c7e2&ipo=images
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Sartoz on Jan 25, 2017 1:41:15 GMT
Snip Forget the fact that the ship has no weight at all because its in SPACE so the principles of it going faster or slower due to a heavy gun/Armour or not no longer apply. Snip ,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
Hmm.... not quite.
A lack of weight does not mean an object loses its mass. Newton's laws still apply in normal space and velocities.
|
|
inherit
Korean Supermodel
1
0
1
7,464
Cyonan
2,189
Jul 31, 2016 20:55:30 GMT
July 2016
admin
Cyonan
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Cyonan
|
Post by Cyonan on Jan 25, 2017 2:19:43 GMT
Look everyone its quite logical, they didn't want to add weapons on board the tempest to make it lighter so it will go faster. Forget the fact that the ship has no weight at all because its in SPACE so the principles of it going faster or slower due to a heavy gun/Armour or not no longer apply. The ezero is to decrease mass not weight because weight is massXgravity, so apparently the amount of mass then must be directly proportional to ezero used in the core to produce the mass effect field. Since all ships have O weight and O mass, I fail to see how the addition of a heavy gun or armour makes the ship go faster unless you are chanelling energy that would normally go to weapons to the engines or perhaps they are getting extra energy due to the deficit in the ME field because its lighter and they don't have the means to transfer energy from one system to another (Wait what about the ODSY drive capable of transferring the ME field charge into useful energy?....cough) Since the ship is probably 99% of the time in SPACE, they could have at least added the armour and it would still be as stealthy. So really the only time it would be useful to be faster and stealthier would be within a planets gravity field and apparently the energy from something like an ODSY drive is not enough for a gun but it is enough of an energy difference for the ME field shipwide to not bother installing one to make it faster and stealthier. And the circular of logic is complete. Also even if you are using rocket fuel and not ME fields, you have to remember that the ship doesn't weight anything because its in SPACE so you use the same amount of fuel for a certain amount of thrust because of Newtons 3rd law which was seemingly broken in our own world by the Electromagnetic drive NASA is testing in SPACE. Oh Callo Jaffacake, you had us going. And you call yourself a salarian, SPAAAAAACE...its a thing. Mass still applies to ships even in a mass effect field(trust me, it breaks physics too much if they don't) and the more mass you have the slower you accelerate and the more power draw you need from your drive core to get up to those speeds because mass actually does affect how much force you need to accelerate something in space. Also even with rocket fuel mass is still a thing and still applies in space. You don't use the same amount of fuel to accelerate something that has twice the mass. On top of the idea that it can actually be really hard to become truly weightless. Even for things in orbit around Earth they aren't weightless, it only feels that way because orbiting is just a fancy way of saying "falling to and constantly missing the Earth". Make no mistake about it though: Things in orbit around Earth are still very much so in Earth's gravitational field and thus have a weight. They would kind of just fly off into space if that wasn't the case. There is a lot of talk about NASA's EM drive because it appears to break our understanding of physics, but a lot more testing needs to be done on this drive before we call it solid scientific fact. There are some concerns brought up about the validity of it, and they aren't all without merit.
|
|
pdusen
N3
Posts: 296 Likes: 974
inherit
394
0
974
pdusen
296
August 2016
pdusen
|
Post by pdusen on Jan 25, 2017 3:11:58 GMT
If you think that none of this could be explained by the plot or anything, then I task you to read some of the last 40 pages, many of which have perfectly logical arguments. If you still think there's no way the plot could explain this and that there's no possible logical explanation, then I task you to exercise your imagination in some way because if you can't imagine someway to have this explained then I wonder how you manage to play any sci-fi game at all. What arguments? 44 pages of "it's a scout lolololol" over and over again despite several people giving you proof after proof and justification after justification for precisely why that doesn't fly as well as every real or fictional example under the sun of what actual scout vessels have (protip: it's armaments) and still you insist on repeating the same thing. I would also appreciate it if you didn't try to imply that I or others arguing similar positions are lacking imagination for pointing out the obvious, as if we simply can't grasp the brilliance of the writing. This is "art" all over again and you know it. It was insulting when BioWare did it for the endings and it's insulting when you do it now. People have given you plenty of varied and perfectly valid reasons that it might make sense for the Tempest not to have weapons. The fact that you've written them all off as "it's a scout lolololol" says more about you than it does anyone else.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
2950
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2017 4:20:01 GMT
I imagine there were armed ships that have accompanied the initiative. Just because the tempest did not have weapons does not mean that there were not any sort of defenses that guarded against raiders and such along the voyage.
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 21,223 Likes: 50,446
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
50,446
Iakus
21,223
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Iakus on Jan 25, 2017 4:55:48 GMT
I imagine there were armed ships that have accompanied the initiative. Just because the tempest did not have weapons does not mean that there were not any sort of defenses that guarded against raiders and such along the voyage. Second AI briefing: "As you travel to the edges of the known galaxy, a small escort of combat pilots will defend us from any threats. However, once we cross into dark space, we will be alone with only our kinetic barriers to shield us during our centuries-long journey."
|
|
inherit
Champion of the Raven Queen
605
0
3,489
maximusarael020
1,651
August 2016
maximusarael020
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
MaximusArael020
|
Post by maximusarael020 on Jan 25, 2017 5:06:38 GMT
I imagine there were armed ships that have accompanied the initiative. Just because the tempest did not have weapons does not mean that there were not any sort of defenses that guarded against raiders and such along the voyage. Second AI briefing: "As you travel to the edges of the known galaxy, a small escort of combat pilots will defend us from any threats. However, once we cross into dark space, we will be alone with only our kinetic barriers to shield us during our centuries-long journey." Right, on the journey. Because all the smaller support ships (Tempest-class, any shuttles or fighters, etc) have to be stored away on the Arks or the Nexus. It's not saying anything about after we arrive. It's saying there isn't a constant fleet of fighters circling the ships en route.
|
|