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Post by SofNascimento on Jan 26, 2017 17:46:55 GMT
See new trailer.
THAT'S. WHY. THE. TEMPEST. NEED. GUNS.
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Post by The Elder King on Jan 26, 2017 17:50:22 GMT
While I don't exactly like the choice, I think it'll be fine if in game they recognize that going defenseless was a bad idea.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jan 26, 2017 17:52:08 GMT
Anyone see the new trailer yet? I now offer this opportunity for you to reiterate how it's ok, they're just a scout and they can stealth/run away from problems when need be. Just tell me one thing: What would we have been able to do to that? No weapon that you should be able fit in the tempest would do anything other that pisses them off. Which if I may remind you would mean at that moment we would be dead. lol, just give it up man. Any shred of wiggle room you might've had just got solidly... boxed in.  |
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Post by themikefest on Jan 26, 2017 17:54:10 GMT
Even if the tempest had weapons, they wouldn't help in a spot like that.
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Post by SofNascimento on Jan 26, 2017 17:54:20 GMT
Anyone see the new trailer yet? I now offer this opportunity for you to reiterate how it's ok, they're just a scout and they can stealth/run away from problems when need be. Just tell me one thing: What would we have been able to do to that? No weapon that you should be able fit in the tempest would do anything other that pisses them off. Which if I may remind you would mean at that moment we would be dead. Urgh. |
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Post by The Elder King on Jan 26, 2017 17:55:46 GMT
Even if the tempest had weapons, they wouldn't help in a spot like that. On that, I agree. |
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jan 26, 2017 18:01:11 GMT
Even if the tempest had weapons, they wouldn't help in a spot like that. Err... evasive maneuvers while they fight to get far enough away from the big ship to jump to FTL? See: any similar scene in any sci-fi/space opera ever. The big ship is probably too big but the little ones? They look vulnerable enough to at least flinch from supressing fire. So where's the firepower or indeed the vaunted speed/maneuverability people wouldn't shut up about earlier? |
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Post by themikefest on Jan 26, 2017 18:02:46 GMT
Err... evasive maneuvers while they fight to get far enough away from the big ship to jump to FTL? See: any similar scene in any sci-fi/space opera ever. The big ship is probably too big but the little ones? They look vulnerable enough to at least flinch from supressing fire. So where's the firepower or indeed the vaunted speed/maneuverability people wouldn't shut up about earlier? Why didn't Joker do that at the beginning of ME2? Was it because he really is a bad pilot? |
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Post by SofNascimento on Jan 26, 2017 18:07:22 GMT
Even if the tempest had weapons, they wouldn't help in a spot like that. It would. I mean, not against the entire Kett fleet, but nobody here ever argued that's why the guns would be used for. But in the scene where only one similarly sized vessel is pursuing the Tempest, PDCs or guardian lasers could mean the difference between death and shooting down incoming missiles. Of course, we are not going to be destroyed by a torpedo for the same reasons Stormtroopers miss 5 meters shoots. But then, nobody argues Han Solo shouldn't have a pistol because of that. |
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Post by SofNascimento on Jan 26, 2017 18:09:55 GMT
Err... evasive maneuvers while they fight to get far enough away from the big ship to jump to FTL? See: any similar scene in any sci-fi/space opera ever. The big ship is probably too big but the little ones? They look vulnerable enough to at least flinch from supressing fire. So where's the firepower or indeed the vaunted speed/maneuverability people wouldn't shut up about earlier? Why didn't Joker do that at the beginning of ME2? Was it because he really is a bad pilot? Because the Normandy thought the stealth system would hide them untill it was too late for evase manuevers. Not to mention it was utterly outgunned. No matter your armament, you won't be able to handle every combat situation. That doesn't mean you shouldn't carry any gun at all. |
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jan 26, 2017 18:10:36 GMT
Why didn't Joker do that at the beginning of ME2? Was it because he really is a bad pilot? Pretty sure he tried.Sadly he took a page from Han Solo on what maneuvers actually mean. |
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Post by hammerstorm on Jan 26, 2017 18:13:55 GMT
Just tell me one thing: What would we have been able to do to that? No weapon that you should be able fit in the tempest would do anything other that pisses them off. Which if I may remind you would mean at that moment we would be dead. lol, just give it up man. Any shred of wiggle room you might've had just got solidly... boxed in. Give what up? You have not proved anything other than you would have got your whole crew killed because you are trigger happy. I have not said that we should have any weapon on it, I only argued about the pro and con with a maingun and heavy armour vs speed and maneuverability. And from my point of view, in the trailer we got ambushed, this would be in the same way that you got ambushed by a tank and you would have a pistol, shoot if you want to die. Just tell me one thing: What would we have been able to do to that? No weapon that you should be able fit in the tempest would do anything other that pisses them off. Which if I may remind you would mean at that moment we would be dead. Urgh. Wow, you are able to type on the keyboard, impressive. next time, try to make a whole sentence.  |
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Post by themikefest on Jan 26, 2017 18:15:15 GMT
It would. I mean, not against the entire Kett fleet, but nobody here ever argued that's why the guns would be used for. But in the scene where only one similarly sized vessel is pursuing the Tempest, PDCs or guardian lasers could mean the difference between death and shooting down incoming missiles. Of course, we are not going to be destroyed by a torpedo for the same reasons Stormtroopers miss 5 meters shoots. But then, nobody argues Han Solo shouldn't have a pistol because of that. No they wouldn't. The tempest was trapped. The pilot says they got us pinned against.......So the tempest wasn't going anywhere. Sure they could fire back and take a couple of ships with the them, but what would that accomplish? I can see the tempest having no problem against 2 or 3 enemy ships, but not what was seen in the trailer |
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Post by SofNascimento on Jan 26, 2017 18:17:06 GMT
It would. I mean, not against the entire Kett fleet, but nobody here ever argued that's why the guns would be used for. But in the scene where only one similarly sized vessel is pursuing the Tempest, PDCs or guardian lasers could mean the difference between death and shooting down incoming missiles. Of course, we are not going to be destroyed by a torpedo for the same reasons Stormtroopers miss 5 meters shoots. But then, nobody argues Han Solo shouldn't have a pistol because of that. No they wouldn't. The tempest was trapped. The pilot says they got us pinned against.......So the tempest wasn't going anywhere. Sure they could fire back and take a couple of ships with the them, but what would that accomplish? I can see the tempest having no problem against 2 or 3 enemy ships, but not what was seen in the trailer Later in the trailer you can see the ship running away with just one ship close behind. |
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Post by themikefest on Jan 26, 2017 18:18:43 GMT
Because the Normandy thought the stealth system would hide them untill it was too late for evase manuevers. Not to mention it was utterly outgunned. It was because Joker is a bad pilot. He flew into the beam. Had he stayed to the left, he may have been able to get the SR1 to ftl Never said the ship could handle every situation. And I don't recall saying the tempest shouldn't have a gun or some kind of weapon defense system |
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Post by The Elder King on Jan 26, 2017 18:20:51 GMT
No they wouldn't. The tempest was trapped. The pilot says they got us pinned against.......So the tempest wasn't going anywhere. Sure they could fire back and take a couple of ships with the them, but what would that accomplish? I can see the tempest having no problem against 2 or 3 enemy ships, but not what was seen in the trailer Later in the trailer you can see the ship running away with just one ship close behind. Mike probably meant that scene though, not the one you mention. He's not saying weapons aren't needed, but that they wouldn't help in that case. |
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Post by themikefest on Jan 26, 2017 18:21:28 GMT
Later in the trailer you can see the ship running away with just one ship close behind. Isn't the trailer pieces of cutscenes put together? |
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Post by SofNascimento on Jan 26, 2017 18:28:45 GMT
Later in the trailer you can see the ship running away with just one ship close behind. Isn't the trailer pieces of cutscenes put together? I suppose so. I agree when you say that in the beginning, when the ship is pinned and dozen of ships are seen, no gun the Tempest could carry would help. But if it can free itself and start running away, which is likely what will happen, a defense system could protect the vessel against incoming attack. |
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jan 26, 2017 18:31:03 GMT
Give what up? You have not proved anything other than you would have got your whole crew killed because you are trigger happy. I have not said that we should have any weapon on it, I only argued about the pro and con with a maingun and heavy armour vs speed and maneuverability. And from my point of view, in the trailer we got ambushed, this would be in the same way that you got ambushed by a tank and you would have a pistol, shoot if you want to die. And now we see what your argument was worth. I suddenly want to rewatch A New Hope for a version of this that actually makes sense... |
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Post by themikefest on Jan 26, 2017 18:33:10 GMT
I suppose so. I agree when you say that in the beginning, when the ship is pinned and dozen of ships are seen, no gun the Tempest could carry would help. But if it can free itself and start running away, which is likely what will happen, a defense system could protect the vessel against incoming attack. If the tempest is able to get away from that many enemy ships with little to no damage, I would have to wonder if the enemy let them get away. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2017 18:39:22 GMT
Isn't the trailer pieces of cutscenes put together? I suppose so. I agree when you say that in the beginning, when the ship is pinned and dozen of ships are seen, no gun the Tempest could carry would help. But if it can free itself and start running away, which is likely what will happen, a defense system could protect the vessel against incoming attack. Wasn't the point made in the Tempest and Nomad briefing that the Tempest's lack of a space cannon meant it could be more agile and get out of trouble faster than it got into it? In the new trailer released today, I would have thought that the Tempest scraping against the object (to it's right side) would have so damaged it that the Tempest would break apart (seems to me). |
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Post by maximusarael020 on Jan 27, 2017 1:46:48 GMT
All I know is that when I saw the very end of the trailer and saw the Tempest barely make it out of that explosion cloud thing, my first thought was "Thank GOD we weren't carrying any extra weight or had any less power going to the engines", because the Tempest would've been toast! And if I'm putting the trailer together correctly (which I know is a crapshoot with editing and stitching scenes together) the lone similar-sized ship was following us on our way out of the explosion cloud and didn't quite make it. Perhaps weighed down by too much weaponry?  |
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Post by theorigcylonhybrid on Jan 29, 2017 0:49:59 GMT
Look everyone its quite logical, they didn't want to add weapons on board the tempest to make it lighter so it will go faster. Forget the fact that the ship has no weight at all because its in SPACE so the principles of it going faster or slower due to a heavy gun/Armour or not no longer apply. The ezero is to decrease mass not weight because weight is massXgravity, so apparently the amount of mass then must be directly proportional to ezero used in the core to produce the mass effect field. Since all ships have O weight and O mass, I fail to see how the addition of a heavy gun or armour makes the ship go faster unless you are chanelling energy that would normally go to weapons to the engines or perhaps they are getting extra energy due to the deficit in the ME field because its lighter and they don't have the means to transfer energy from one system to another (Wait what about the ODSY drive capable of transferring the ME field charge into useful energy?....cough) Since the ship is probably 99% of the time in SPACE, they could have at least added the armour and it would still be as stealthy. So really the only time it would be useful to be faster and stealthier would be within a planets gravity field and apparently the energy from something like an ODSY drive is not enough for a gun but it is enough of an energy difference for the ME field shipwide to not bother installing one to make it faster and stealthier. And the circular of logic is complete. Also even if you are using rocket fuel and not ME fields, you have to remember that the ship doesn't weight anything because its in SPACE so you use the same amount of fuel for a certain amount of thrust because of Newtons 3rd law which was seemingly broken in our own world by the Electromagnetic drive NASA is testing in SPACE. Oh Callo Jaffacake, you had us going. And you call yourself a salarian, SPAAAAAACE...its a thing. Mass still applies to ships even in a mass effect field(trust me, it breaks physics too much if they don't) and the more mass you have the slower you accelerate and the more power draw you need from your drive core to get up to those speeds because mass actually does affect how much force you need to accelerate something in space. Also even with rocket fuel mass is still a thing and still applies in space. You don't use the same amount of fuel to accelerate something that has twice the mass. On top of the idea that it can actually be really hard to become truly weightless. Even for things in orbit around Earth they aren't weightless, it only feels that way because orbiting is just a fancy way of saying "falling to and constantly missing the Earth". Make no mistake about it though: Things in orbit around Earth are still very much so in Earth's gravitational field and thus have a weight. They would kind of just fly off into space if that wasn't the case. There is a lot of talk about NASA's EM drive because it appears to break our understanding of physics, but a lot more testing needs to be done on this drive before we call it solid scientific fact. There are some concerns brought up about the validity of it, and they aren't all without merit.
It is not possible for a ship to have mass even in a mass effect field, otherwise according to einsteins equation, it is not possible to exceed the speed of light unless you have come up with a way to divide by 0? Newtons laws do not apply to something with 0 mass because his physics did not take into account objects with 0 mass.
Mass effect fields are required to reduce the spaceship mass to 0 in FTL but I dont see why the same ME field cant be active at speeds slower than light as well.
Its also not hard to be weightless in deep space far outside of any star system of astronomical body. We're not talking about flying near a planet like earth, we're talking way way out.
Also they have been testing this drive since it was created in the 1990s. So the americans and the chinese and the russians have had 30 years to test it, and so far it checks out.
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Post by theorigcylonhybrid on Jan 29, 2017 1:03:55 GMT
I love the way in this thread people are justifying not have a thanix cannon on board by saying it would be heavier and make the ship slower and less agile.
Lets forget the fact they all technology is based on mass effect and also there is no weight in space if you are not near a gravity well like a planet or something.
Simply by activating a Mass effect field, the ship has no mass (otherwise it cant FTL) and because its in space it has no weight, so you can go as fast as you want and be as agile as you want. If your thrust accelerates, your ship accelerates indefinitely, getting faster and faster because there is 0 mass and F=MA doesn't apply if m= 0.
Although not an expert, what happens when force is applied to an object with O mass to propel it when it travels slower than light?
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Post by Ivory Samoan on Jan 29, 2017 1:27:08 GMT
I love the way in this thread people are justifying not have a thanix cannon on board by saying it would be heavier and make the ship slower and less agile. Lets forget the fact they all technology is based on mass effect and also there is no weight in space if you are not near a gravity well like a planet or something. Simply by activating a Mass effect field, the ship has no mass (otherwise it cant FTL) and because its in space it has no weight, so you can go as fast as you want and be as agile as you want. If your thrust accelerates, your ship accelerates indefinitely, getting faster and faster because there is 0 mass and F=MA doesn't apply if m= 0. Although not an expert, what happens when force is applied to an object with O mass to propel it when it travels slower than light? The argument could be adhered to a gravity rich situation though, since it's a landing vehicle unlike the Normandy. In that case, a quick getaway would most definitely be affected by said Thanix weight. Either way, the fucker should of had guns on it but I'm thinking Jien is a bit of a space hippy or something of the like, and the AI only has minimal armaments even on The Nexus. I've tweeted Mac and Gambledogg regarding armaments in the fleet, all I have gotten is silence (they've answered my other questions though lol)...but surely, there must be some defenses with a fleet this size, especially considering how vulnerable The Nexus is to attack if unguarded. I swear to Talos, if we are sitting in Andromeda with no guns and our ass hanging out The Kett are going to have a field day reaming us hard, no lube.  |
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