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Post by AnDromedary on Jan 24, 2017 21:47:39 GMT
Well I think this example Phoray showed was one of the annoyances I had with the game. Just darkness for the sake of darkness. The Witcher world is dark and sad, you don't know who to trust. Have to decide what is moral for a witcher and for that time period and world. The companions, Geralt's humor and the lighter quests balance it out. It makes good roleplaying, I kept asking myself what would I do then what will Geralt do. The companions, Geralt's humor and the lighter quests balance it out the darkness - most of the time.
Much different from DA or ME where there is much more light than darkness. As much as I love The Witcher series, I keep going back to BioWare.
For me, the Witcher sometimes teeters on the edge of the bearable but in the grand scheme of things, it's doing ok. My problem with very dark settings is not really the darkness per se but rather that I don't find it very realistic. Often times, in very dark fictional settings, they are made dark by basically making all the characters in them behave like a bunch of selfish pricks. Maybe I have lead too much of a sheltered life but after living on 3 different continents for more than 3 years each, this is not a realistic scenario in my experience. In real life, most people want to be decent, friendly people that are trying to be helpful to each other if possible. Sure, there are a lot of issues in the world and people can get selfish and cruel when driven to the brink but only a very small minority of all the people I got to know would behave like this in a default state. I take this issue with quite a few of the more recent SciFi films, that try to predict a dark future, such as Judge Dread or Elysium. If you pay attention, the worlds in those kinds of movies and stories would actually be way better off if not every single character in them (even including the protagonists we are supposed to root for) wouldn't be a selfish little prick all the time. I often wonder what dark kind of view these authors and screenwriters must have of humanity. One advantage of BW games is that they usually externalize the outright evil threat to either some form of demonic supernatural force (Dragon Age) or mysterious aliens like the reapers in Mass Effect. This allows for the actual characters (even those that are not necessarily your allies) to - at the very least - have an agenda that they believe serves a greater good, while still managing a fairly dark setting with a serious threat (and my god was e.g. Mass Effect 3 dark). Some may think it's a bit of a cheap trick to externalize the darkness in this way but at least, it allows for more realistic characters while creating a threatening scenario, at least in my view. The Witcher sometimes comes close to the first scenario. A lot of characters in this world are also acting selfish and rather gastly. But at least in the witcher, it is most of the time explained why they do so. For almost all characters that do aweful things, they do have a fairly understandable (not always good but at least understandable) reason to do so. It may be their socio-economic environment (especially in the war torn world of Witcher 3), their religious beliefs, their upbringing and education under a different moral code, the atrocities commited against their kind (especially in the case of the Scoia'tel), base needs or they may even think that they are commiting atrocities for what they percieve as the greater good. e.g. Radovid Sure, there are genuinely bad people around as well (I would count Henselt from Witcher 2 among them or that guy who ruled Flotsome) but they are balanced out by also some genuinely "good" characters (such as Shani for example). So the fact that, for all its darkness, the motivations and traits of characters in the Witcher is somewhat grounded in half way realistic causalities makes this world at least believable and therefore somewhat meaningful to me - in both its dark social commentary as well as the rays of hope it does choose to present us with, not very often but when it matters. And actually, one has to acknowladge that this kind of ballance is very tough to achieve in fiction (though ironically, it's common place in real life), so I ahve to give some kudos to the creators of the witcher world (meaning both, Sapkowski and the game writers) to pull it off. But enough meta-text philosophy, phoray , I completely get why you feel a little bit up and alone against a very hostile environment at this point (and there are still some bitter pills ahead, believe me.) But as others have said, once you meet up with your long time companions (most of whom Geralt knows from the previous stories and games) and have some really heart warming dialogue with them, things change. And to some extent, this stretch where you feel rather isolated gives those later scenes even more gravitas and emotional payoff in my view. So just keep on keeping on.
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Post by flyingsquirrel on Jan 24, 2017 22:15:42 GMT
I mean, I've learned my lesson now. I won't implicate anyone in the future if they're part of a faction. It just seemed like the matter was settled and they punched me in the face for "whegetting it wrong". Well, I'm one of those people who obsessively quicksaves before dialogue scenes so I can change it if something comes out in a way that catches me by surprise and where a different choice (or simply avoiding it) would likely result in something different. Though that leads me to perhaps TW3's most annoying feature, namely those blasted "recap" narrations that play every time you load a save when you haven't just died. Yes, game, I know that this tale begins with Geralt of Rivia looking for the sorceress Yennefer - you told me that 15 minutes ago last time I reloaded a save.
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Post by AnDromedary on Jan 24, 2017 22:21:46 GMT
I mean, I've learned my lesson now. I won't implicate anyone in the future if they're part of a faction. It just seemed like the matter was settled and they punched me in the face for "whegetting it wrong". Well, I'm one of those people who obsessively quicksaves before dialogue scenes so I can change it if something comes out in a way that catches me by surprise and where a different choice (or simply avoiding it) would likely result in something different. Though that leads me to perhaps TW3's most annoying feature, namely those blasted "recap" narrations that play every time you load a save when you haven't just died. Yes, game, I know that this tale begins with Geralt of Rivia looking for the sorceress Yennefer - you told me that 15 minutes ago last time I reloaded a save. Would definitely be a good idea to have those only when loading for the first time from the main menu. Weirdly enough, when you die and then reload, the recaps do not show. So there must already be a system in place to choose whether or not to show them. Given that the constant recaps were already a complaint only days after the game's initial release in 2015, I was surprised to see that hadn't been patched. Maybe there is a mod somewhere out there to fix this?
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Post by Babar Guy on Jan 24, 2017 22:28:47 GMT
Well, I'm one of those people who obsessively quicksaves before dialogue scenes so I can change it if something comes out in a way that catches me by surprise and where a different choice (or simply avoiding it) would likely result in something different. Though that leads me to perhaps TW3's most annoying feature, namely those blasted "recap" narrations that play every time you load a save when you haven't just died. Yes, game, I know that this tale begins with Geralt of Rivia looking for the sorceress Yennefer - you told me that 15 minutes ago last time I reloaded a save. Would definitely be a good idea to have those only when loading for the first time from the main menu. Weirdly enough, when you die and then reload, the recaps do not show. So there must already be a system in place to choose whether or not to show them. Given that the constant recaps were already a complaint only days after the game's initial release in 2015, I was surprised to see that hadn't been patched. Maybe there is a mod somewhere out there to fix this? There's this: www.nexusmods.com/witcher3/mods/816/?I don't have experience with it personally, since I don't mind the narrated bits during a loading screen.
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Post by phoray on Jan 25, 2017 1:11:52 GMT
I mean, I've learned my lesson now. I won't implicate anyone in the future if they're part of a faction. It just seemed like the matter was settled and they punched me in the face for "whegetting it wrong". Well, I'm one of those people who obsessively quicksaves before dialogue scenes so I can change it if something comes out in a way that catches me by surprise and where a different choice (or simply avoiding it) would likely result in something different. Though that leads me to perhaps TW3's most annoying feature, namely those blasted "recap" narrations that play every time you load a save when you haven't just died. Yes, game, I know that this tale begins with Geralt of Rivia looking for the sorceress Yennefer - you told me that 15 minutes ago last time I reloaded a save. I picked the things I picked when I picked them, and I accept them as they are. IF I play a second time, is when I would work on my "perfect" outcome to every decision. But the first time is blind and, UNLESS they REALLY do something that out and out misled me, I'm keeping it. One example was in TWD I picked the dialogue that was Strongly Encouraging of a guy to jump off a bridge and onto a train. it did NOT tell me I was going to PUSH HIM OFF. That's the only time I've reloaded on a first game, cuz the game sorta lied to me there about what I was going to do. but bad consequences? nope. Gonna suck it and be mad.
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Post by phoray on Jan 25, 2017 1:32:46 GMT
Had a little time to play since I'm all packed up.
So. Decided to go the way of the Baron sice someone mentioned they had a good craftmaster.
Bought the bandits a round way back when, regretted it, but then they turned out to be the door guard for the Baron. Let me in, no problems. ...Is that the benefit of turning a blind eye to their awfulness?
Onwards.
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Post by phoray on Jan 25, 2017 1:43:20 GMT
I like the Bloody Baron, he's a Temerian . WOW suddenly I'm Ciri and her dodge is quite magical. Is that...Female Hawke I'm hearing from Cori's mouth? Just for that one line... Geez! Did the dad seriously send his child to be eaten by witches for wasting milk?!
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by dragontartare on Jan 25, 2017 1:44:43 GMT
I like the Bloody Baron, he's a Temerian . WOW suddenly I'm Ciri and her dodge is quite magical. Is that...Female Hawke I'm hearing from Cori's mouth? Just for that one line...Geez! Did the dad seriously send his child to be eaten by witches for wasting milk?! Yes, that's Jo Wyatt. And I bet it's the same line that made me realize it.
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Post by phoray on Jan 25, 2017 1:50:23 GMT
Oh my, it's my first feels. Ciri just referred to Geralt as her father ..... Oh my gosh I lurve Ciri. I want to make an Inquisitor that looks like her!
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Post by phoray on Jan 25, 2017 3:02:31 GMT
What is the green stone Ciri gave Grelka?
I like that Geralt's head turns with the camera.
I like that there was a getting off his horse cinematic.
I like the different amount of light the day night cycle adds to every cut scene.
I still like the Bloody Baron. Knowing this game, he'll probably turn out o be the worst scum of the earth.
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Post by phoray on Jan 25, 2017 3:17:27 GMT
Hahahahaha! Oh my gosh. So, I'm seeing the "find a goat" quest from a mile away. It gives me a choice to find the goat or refuse. I take a breath, annoyed, and click that I'll look for it and sigh a sigh of annoyance at the exact same moment Geralt does the same. Of one mind on the goat quest. I'm feeling ya Geralt. ----- Well. That quest was good for a quest of that nature I suppose.then things got dramatic with milk and a rat and voices. Oh boy. For a second, I thought e was talking about Grelka. But I'm totally going to lift the curse of the Botchling and make it into a good creature.
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Post by phoray on Jan 25, 2017 4:11:20 GMT
Oh my dear goodness.
That...Monster hug grieving scene and prayer made me cry big fat tears.
My mother in law watched too and thought it was a very well written scene. She has had miscarriages herself so I think that says something.
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Post by smilesja on Jan 25, 2017 4:28:47 GMT
Yeah that was a creepy yet touching scene.
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Post by smilesja on Jan 25, 2017 4:35:31 GMT
In terms of writing and choice/consequence I think Velen has the best.
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Post by phoray on Jan 25, 2017 5:06:39 GMT
Made my husband watch that scene on YouTube and got a bit choked up all over again. The way it's little hand reaches out right before it goes slack. The voice acting of the Baron when he asks for forgiveness.
Gosh. I have to keep reminding myself he's a wife beater.
Still have to find the Daughter in Oxenfurt, but the wife, Anna, is likely dead somewhere. Going to find Anna first to see if that gives me extra dialogue with the daughter. But that will be Thursday or.. February 4th.
All in all, that was a pretty strong moment to leave the game on and resume my interest for the future.
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N5
Dr Obfuscate
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: correctamundo1
Prime Posts: A thousand and then some.
Prime Likes: They never liked me! No one likes me!
Posts: 2,831 Likes: 5,274
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A thousand and then some.
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Post by correctamundo on Jan 25, 2017 6:37:22 GMT
Made my husband watch that scene on YouTube and got a bit choked up all over again. The way it's little hand reaches out right before it goes slack. The voice acting of the Baron when he asks for forgiveness. Gosh. I have to keep reminding myself he's a wife beater. Still have to find the Daughter in Oxenfurt, but the wife, Anna, is likely dead somewhere. Going to find Anna first to see if that gives me extra dialogue with the daughter. But that will be Thursday or.. February 4th. All in all, that was a pretty strong moment to leave the game on and resume my interest for the future. I've seen enough drunks and wife-beaters irl to not have any problem reminding Geralt of what the Baron is. My Geralt took any chance he got to show his disdain for him. Outside of auto-dialogue and forced canon. Anyway, you touched on earlier the series lack of compaions etc. I finds this is a major drawback. Main characters disappearing between quests. Well they might as well since they have nothing to say at those times. There are temporary companions but they are relatively few and far between. There is banter out in the world, sometimes longer ones but I have found none of the on-going stories that we get Thedas. And of course there is nothing even remotely like the Bull-Solas chess game. Still I enjoy the Witcher and I am confident that I will enjoy the 3rd game even more once I have finished both 1 and 2. Flotsam - The Emerald graves. Can anyone tell the difference?
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Post by Babar Guy on Jan 25, 2017 12:58:46 GMT
The fact that the Baron is such a deeply flawed man is what makes him such a great character. Not to excuse him being a violent drunk, because he definitely should be called out on the things he's done and needs to make amends, but there's people in Bioware games who are guilty of far worse who pretty much get a free pass since their past misdeeds aren't necessarily as focused on. I know I don't tend to really dwell on the kinds of horrible shit someone like Zevran or Leliana in DA would have done in their past. Or the despicable things, say Viconia in BG/BG2 would've been a part of over the course of centuries purely by virtue of living in Drow society.
He's got redeeming qualities as well, it's not like he's done those things out of pure evil and malice. He really does love his family, he WANTS to do right by them and change for the better, the band of cutthroats, murderers and rapists under his command would be ten times worse to the people of Velen if it wasn't for him, and he treats Ciri with nothing but respect and kindness with no real ulterior motive.
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N5
Dr Obfuscate
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: correctamundo1
Prime Posts: A thousand and then some.
Prime Likes: They never liked me! No one likes me!
Posts: 2,831 Likes: 5,274
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
correctamundo1
A thousand and then some.
They never liked me! No one likes me!
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Post by correctamundo on Jan 25, 2017 14:44:49 GMT
I definitely agree to that going for a redeeming pathway regards to the baron is fully understandable. I didn't the first time though.
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N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 219 Likes: 799
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Post by Wildfire on Jan 25, 2017 16:47:34 GMT
I've seen enough drunks and wife-beaters irl to not have any problem reminding Geralt of what the Baron is. My Geralt took any chance he got to show his disdain for him. Outside of auto-dialogue and forced canon. Yeah, it's really hard to sympathise with the Baron when the world is so full of those kind of men who just can't get their shit together Wife-beater is like the cheapest trope there is, even when you make an effort to make it touching. Someone above said that the Witcher is a social commentary - but really, in my mind the biggest problem with the Witcher is that it is NOT a social commentary on anything. The definition of social commentary is to say something about the surrounding world - however, the Witcher does not do that. Neither is the player encouraged to do anything which might imply any sort of commentary/criticsm on the status quo. If you want to, you can basically be almost completely indifferent or even condone the bullshit going on in the universe. Also, I totally agree with the above poster who contested TW's interpretation of human nature. According to my experiences with people, most tend to be indifferent instead of being outright hateful. So I kinda fail to see the point in all that "gritty" stuff. TW3 does get better as soon as you get out of Velen. The game does have some impressive and technically well-executed moments. Playing with Ciri is the best. Especially when she is so much more powerful than Geralt
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Add a cookie for just $1.99 (plus tax)!
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Post by dragontartare on Jan 25, 2017 17:27:12 GMT
The fact that the Baron is such a deeply flawed man is what makes him such a great character. Not to excuse him being a violent drunk, because he definitely should be called out on the things he's done and needs to make amends, but there's people in Bioware games who are guilty of far worse who pretty much get a free pass since their past misdeeds aren't necessarily as focused on. I know I don't tend to really dwell on the kinds of horrible shit someone like Zevran or Leliana in DA would have done in their past. Or the despicable things, say Viconia in BG/BG2 would've been a part of over the course of centuries purely by virtue of living in Drow society.
He's got redeeming qualities as well, it's not like he's done those things out of pure evil and malice. He really does love his family, he WANTS to do right by them and change for the better, the band of cutthroats, murderers and rapists under his command would be ten times worse to the people of Velen if it wasn't for him, and he treats Ciri with nothing but respect and kindness with no real ulterior motive. Plus, he takes in little Gretka. She appears to be a "servant's kid" of a sort, but she is happy and safe, and at least doesn't appear to be exploited for cheap labor. So yeah, the Baron is a piece of shit, but he's not rotten to the core...just like a real person. Wildfire I disagree that there is no social commentary here. People tend to demonize the "other side" in everyday matters. Anyone who supports welfare is a good for nothing layabout. Anyone who doesn't is a heartless monster. That sort of thing. And yet in reality, these extremes are dangerously simplistic, because people have complex reasons for their views (whether you agree with them or not) and if people refuse to recognize that, then the result is...well, what happened in lots of elections worldwide this past year. The fact that W3 characters are so deliberately gray is very much putting this middle ground in our faces. As an amusing aside, I must use my phone to post here too often, because it tried to autocorrect "baron" to Varric
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Post by AnDromedary on Jan 25, 2017 19:16:45 GMT
I've seen enough drunks and wife-beaters irl to not have any problem reminding Geralt of what the Baron is. My Geralt took any chance he got to show his disdain for him. Outside of auto-dialogue and forced canon. Yeah, it's really hard to sympathise with the Baron when the world is so full of those kind of men who just can't get their shit together Wife-beater is like the cheapest trope there is, even when you make an effort to make it touching. Someone above said that the Witcher is a social commentary - but really, in my mind the biggest problem with the Witcher is that it is NOT a social commentary on anything. The definition of social commentary is to say something about the surrounding world - however, the Witcher does not do that. Neither is the player encouraged to do anything which might imply any sort of commentary/criticsm on the status quo. If you want to, you can basically be almost completely indifferent or even condone the bullshit going on in the universe. Also, I totally agree with the above poster who contested TW's interpretation of human nature. According to my experiences with people, most tend to be indifferent instead of being outright hateful. So I kinda fail to see the point in all that "gritty" stuff. TW3 does get better as soon as you get out of Velen. The game does have some impressive and technically well-executed moments. Playing with Ciri is the best. Especially when she is so much more powerful than Geralt I think there is a lot of social commentary in this world. One of the most striking examples for me are the Scoia'tel which are really on the nose to be honest. Here you have a group of terrorists who most of the time hurt innocent people instead of attacking military targets or the actual people who actively oppress them. Actually in Witcher 3 it's more of a side issue but especially in Witcher 1 and 2 you really get to know this group fairly intimately. Even if you don't like them and you don't agree with their methods (I'd hope you don't, their methods are despicable, they are terrorists), one has to acknowladge that the oppression that their people have been subjected to gives them a motive. A lot of them now see their own cause almost like a holy fight against the human newcomers and they no longer question their own motives or or methods, they see it all as justified, maybe even laudable, despite the fact that they are committing atrocities. They are also radicalized to the point where you can no longer have a rational conversation with them about political issues. Most of the humans in their self-righteousness on the other hand cannot - or don't care/want to - even understand that the fact that they hold all the political and economic power might have something to do with what they perceive to be mindless acts of violence against them. They react with violence of their own, using their power to punish indiscriminately or to enforce further policies of oppression against non-humans in the name of security for their own kind, which only helps to widen this racial division and harden the fronts. They can't see that it's a global socio-economical imbalance that causes these conflicts because they are happy to remain in their bubble of wealth and privilege. But Geralt is a freak, an outsider to both sides of the conflict, which gives him - and by extension the player - the rather unique perspective to see through the propaganda and media/perception-bubble of either side and thus, he can see (and remark on) how pointless, petty and full of hypocrisy the arguments of both sides often are.If this is not social commentary, I don't know what could be in a fictional setting, all you need to do is to transfer the broader implications of the Witcher world to the real one. Just to make it clear, this world is chock full of such parallels on many issues, this is just by far the most obvious to me. And also just in case, this is not something I came up with, the writers did state these kinds of intentions in interviews as far back as before the release of Witcher 1.
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Post by phoray on Jan 25, 2017 20:13:27 GMT
To me the Baron is a sad, sympathetic character and the quest is heartbreaking. He is a soldier away from his family most of the time. The family is dysfunctional, distant, his wife is having an affair wants to leave him. His daughter barely talks to him and resents him. Whaaaaaaa? Did not know this. Guess this explains the huge fight then. :/ Was I supposed to pick up this clue in the Baron's house?
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2346
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Feb 15, 2021 18:20:47 GMT
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dutchsghost7
850
December 2016
dutchsghost7
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Post by dutchsghost7 on Jan 25, 2017 20:15:59 GMT
>plays content packed game >writes about it on a thread at an obscure website trying to revive the worst parts of bsn >goes back to playing >writes again
You're weird.
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Gileadan
N5
Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ALoneGretchin
Posts: 2,915 Likes: 7,479
inherit
Agent 46
177
0
Nov 27, 2024 21:28:21 GMT
7,479
Gileadan
Clearance Level Ultra
2,915
August 2016
gileadan
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
ALoneGretchin
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Post by Gileadan on Jan 25, 2017 20:30:03 GMT
To me the Baron is a sad, sympathetic character and the quest is heartbreaking. He is a soldier away from his family most of the time. The family is dysfunctional, distant, his wife is having an affair wants to leave him. His daughter barely talks to him and resents him. Whaaaaaaa? Did not know this. Guess this explains the huge fight then. :/ Was I supposed to pick up this clue in the Baron's house? And that's barely half of it. Wait until you figure out the full picture... The Baron mentions it at some point, but it may depend on your dialogue choice, not sure.
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ღ I am a golem. Obviously.
440
0
25,850
phoray
Gotta be kiddin me
13,237
August 2016
phoray
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by phoray on Jan 25, 2017 20:42:43 GMT
Whaaaaaaa? Did not know this. Guess this explains the huge fight then. :/ Was I supposed to pick up this clue in the Baron's house? And that's barely half of it. Wait until you figure out the full picture... The Baron mentions it at some point, but it may depend on your dialogue choice, not sure. I did all the white colored questions. Maybe it only comes up if you're mean to him and I wasn't. @dustyelf I JUST finished the Botchling quest and left Geralt and Roach parked in the Baron's courtyard. Goals are Find daughter and Find Wife. I am/was pretty sure the wife was dead and that the daughter doesn't want to be found, regardless of if I wave a childhood doll in her face. I can't play again until maybe tomorrow at te earliest or February 4th at the latest.
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