Sanunes
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Post by Sanunes on Jan 24, 2017 5:00:48 GMT
That would completely shift the focus of the game for the illusion of being more difficult for some people and there are people that don't want a BioWare game to be hard they want a story to go with their game. I don't understand what you're saying. I'm horrible at games myself, but enjoy the stories and appreciate Easy mode. But the people who enjoy mastering the game as game should be challenged as well. The problem is you can't make a game that meets everyone's criteria for enjoyment. Not all games should be Dark Souls level of difficult for the people that want that difficulty, just like not every game should have a story like BioWare's either, there are different games to meet those criteria for people. So there is a risk that they could remove something from the game to accommodate the time and money spent to make the game harder that might be off putting to the people that don't care about the difficulty to the same level. BioWare has the numbers internally of how many people really played and beat the game on insanity so it might be too easy for some people, but the data BioWare release indicates that only 4% of the people beat the game on Insanity so to me that shows it is either not that easy or people aren't interested in that aspect of the game. |
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lastpawn
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Post by lastpawn on Jan 24, 2017 6:19:35 GMT
I thought ME3 "Insanity" was a reasonably good take on difficulty. If it wasn't for how well power combos scaled, or the fact that Vanguards -- already a dominant class in ME2 -- were given Nova, I would have had a reasonably hard time on Insanity.
The most fun I had was with a Vanguard in ME2 Insanity, but the whole "shield everything" mechanic I thought was an easy way out of designing actually difficult encounters. It also made playing Adept in ME2 less fun.
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Post by Cyonan on Jan 24, 2017 6:20:57 GMT
I don't understand what you're saying. I'm horrible at games myself, but enjoy the stories and appreciate Easy mode. But the people who enjoy mastering the game as game should be challenged as well. The problem is you can't make a game that meets everyone's criteria for enjoyment. Not all games should be Dark Souls level of difficult for the people that want that difficulty, just like not every game should have a story like BioWare's either, there are different games to meet those criteria for people. So there is a risk that they could remove something from the game to accommodate the time and money spent to make the game harder that might be off putting to the people that don't care about the difficulty to the same level. BioWare has the numbers internally of how many people really played and beat the game on insanity so it might be too easy for some people, but the data BioWare release indicates that only 4% of the people beat the game on Insanity so to me that shows it is either not that easy or people aren't interested in that aspect of the game. This is exactly what difficulty levels were created for, though. Insanity should challenge the better players among us. It's still perfectly fine if people don't want that challenge, but then don't play on insanity. There are a bunch of other lower difficulty levels for you to play on if you don't want the challenge of insanity and there is no punishment for doing so. Many of us who want a harder insanity mode also advocate for easy being easy for the majority of players. We understand that not everybody wants to play a difficult game, but we do. All we're asking for is that insanity present a challenge to the more skilled players among us. We aren't asking for everything to be insanity level of difficulty and for the entire game to be built around it. |
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lastpawn
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Post by lastpawn on Jan 24, 2017 6:34:50 GMT
Many of us who want a harder insanity mode also advocate for easy being easy for the majority of players. We understand that not everybody wants to play a difficult game, but we do. All we're asking for is that insanity present a challenge to the more skilled players among us. We aren't asking for everything to be insanity level of difficulty and for the entire game to be built around it. Agreed. Just to add, I actually prefer harder difficulties because of narrative reasons. I prefer to play a game at a difficulty setting that makes me believe in the narrative of the game. So if, say, Commander Shepard is supposed to be struggling for their life in the story -- but I as a player breeze through the enemies -- that just doesn't work for me. So if I'm playing a character exploring the dangers of a new frontier, I want to feel like it's actually dangerous. For me that means playing on higher difficulties. |
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Sanunes
N6
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Post by Sanunes on Jan 24, 2017 6:35:27 GMT
The problem is you can't make a game that meets everyone's criteria for enjoyment. Not all games should be Dark Souls level of difficult for the people that want that difficulty, just like not every game should have a story like BioWare's either, there are different games to meet those criteria for people. So there is a risk that they could remove something from the game to accommodate the time and money spent to make the game harder that might be off putting to the people that don't care about the difficulty to the same level. BioWare has the numbers internally of how many people really played and beat the game on insanity so it might be too easy for some people, but the data BioWare release indicates that only 4% of the people beat the game on Insanity so to me that shows it is either not that easy or people aren't interested in that aspect of the game. This is exactly what difficulty levels were created for, though. Insanity should challenge the better players among us. It's still perfectly fine if people don't want that challenge, but then don't play on insanity. There are a bunch of other lower difficulty levels for you to play on if you don't want the challenge of insanity and there is no punishment for doing so. Many of us who want a harder insanity mode also advocate for easy being easy for the majority of players. We understand that not everybody wants to play a difficult game, but we do. All we're asking for is that insanity present a challenge to the more skilled players among us. We aren't asking for everything to be insanity level of difficulty and for the entire game to be built around it. Its been lost in the replies, but I am not saying there shouldn't difficulty levels what I was talking about expectations of what will be done to change the game for the higher difficulties. |
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Post by Cyonan on Jan 24, 2017 6:50:33 GMT
This is exactly what difficulty levels were created for, though. Insanity should challenge the better players among us. It's still perfectly fine if people don't want that challenge, but then don't play on insanity. There are a bunch of other lower difficulty levels for you to play on if you don't want the challenge of insanity and there is no punishment for doing so. Many of us who want a harder insanity mode also advocate for easy being easy for the majority of players. We understand that not everybody wants to play a difficult game, but we do. All we're asking for is that insanity present a challenge to the more skilled players among us. We aren't asking for everything to be insanity level of difficulty and for the entire game to be built around it. Its been lost in the replies, but I am not saying there shouldn't difficulty levels what I was talking about expectations of what will be done to change the game for the higher difficulties. You wouldn't really need to change much, if anything, specifically just for the higher difficulties. Smarter AI in general I think would benefit all difficulty levels of the game and would be among the best things to have for a more difficult insanity mode, and you can control how powerful the enemies are per difficulty level. If smarter AI at 25% of HP/Damage is too much, scale it down to 10-15%. I'm also an advocate for enemies using more powers again, which is something that could be turned off on the lowest difficulties if it's deemed too much for people to handle. Again though, I think it makes the combat a bit more interesting at all levels if it's not feeling like just another shooter. Powers are one of the more unique aspect of Mass Effect's combat, so I think it'd be good all around to see more of them. |
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ApocAlypsE
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Post by ApocAlypsE on Jan 24, 2017 7:47:30 GMT
Ideally, I would like the AI to be connected to a deep neural network that sees the player play patterns and adjusts accordingly, but I doubt any game at all implemented that kind of approach, maybe fan-made Starcraft 2 bots like Green AI implemented it. What I would like for Insanity to be is to go the Divinity Original Sin tactical mode approach: in each battle, compared to the hard difficulty, the game throws a curveball at your in the form of additional monster/s that spawn in awkward locations. That makes the battles more interesting without feeling cheap.
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RogueState
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Post by RogueState on Jan 24, 2017 8:16:52 GMT
I'll take anything that isn't a bullet sponge, I am so over bullet sponges as a way of increasing difficulty! I really like the idea of increased enemy abilities and combo usage, that would be awesome.
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Post by Ivory Samoan on Jan 24, 2017 8:57:57 GMT
I don't understand what you're saying. I'm horrible at games myself, but enjoy the stories and appreciate Easy mode. But the people who enjoy mastering the game as game should be challenged as well. The problem is you can't make a game that meets everyone's criteria for enjoyment. Not all games should be Dark Souls level of difficult for the people that want that difficulty, just like not every game should have a story like BioWare's either, there are different games to meet those criteria for people. So there is a risk that they could remove something from the game to accommodate the time and money spent to make the game harder that might be off putting to the people that don't care about the difficulty to the same level. BioWare has the numbers internally of how many people really played and beat the game on insanity so it might be too easy for some people, but the data BioWare release indicates that only 4% of the people beat the game on Insanity so to me that shows it is either not that easy or people aren't interested in that aspect of the game. I think you will find that a lot of the vocal, but influential, minority online and in the gaming press play on Insanity: that alone is a great reason to make it a well done priority (all difficulty levels should be curated appropriately, with care taken to make them all unique). If I easily blaze through any game of late, I nearly see it as a waste of time: I need to be challenged...obviously, my opinion, but that's what über-fan forums are for  |
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Post by Cypher on Jan 24, 2017 9:25:06 GMT
Enemy ambushes would go a long way to up the difficulty. If they take the random enemy spawns from Inquisition and pair that with the fact that enemies have guns, suddenly getting sniped before getting mobbed on occasion would go a long way.
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Post by missileglitcher on Jan 24, 2017 10:08:46 GMT
Platinum difficulty was more than difficult enough for me, i was never able to dominate it completely. So I'll be happy with something similar to platinum level.
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sjsharp2010
N7
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jan 24, 2017 12:06:02 GMT
Ideally, I would like the AI to be connected to a deep neural network that sees the player play patterns and adjusts accordingly, but I doubt any game at all implemented that kind of approach, maybe fan-made Starcraft 2 bots like Green AI implemented it. What I would like for Insanity to be is to go the Divinity Original Sin tactical mode approach: in each battle, compared to the hard difficulty, the game throws a curveball at your in the form of additional monster/s that spawn in awkward locations. That makes the battles more interesting without feeling cheap. I belireve Konami do on their PES franchise or at least they did Because on PES sometimes the game could be easy and you'd get loads of goals but as time wore on if you didn't occasionally change your approach the game would adapt and be able to stop you better and you won't be scoring as many goals. I don't play PES thast much as I prefer EA's FIFA but I do have a few of the older ones that do this. |
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Post by DalishRanger on Jan 24, 2017 12:43:10 GMT
Also, while we're on the topic of stories... I recently booted up DA:I and wanted to load up an old save (one of my first that I never finished) and had just gotten to Skyhold at level 9 or something. Anyways, i was think it would be really cool if there was a way to recap the story I had gone to up until that point in the game. I had to settle for second best by looking through my journal and then my strategy guide. It wasn't very interactive so it didn't really keep my attention. Would be amazing if we could play back cut scenes or something, that would be swell. Ideally, something like that would have a date checker before running. Say, for example, the recap only triggered if you loaded up the save after a week/month/whatever without playing. That way you didn't have to sit through it every time you loaded, but I'd be there when you'd likely need it. |
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Post by Sartoz on Jan 24, 2017 13:59:06 GMT
Anyone else feel the Nightmare difficulty (before Trespasser) on DA:I was a little... easy? We want a difficult game. Make this happen BW. ,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
Try using a pop gun.
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Sanunes
N6
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Post by Sanunes on Jan 24, 2017 14:27:50 GMT
The problem is you can't make a game that meets everyone's criteria for enjoyment. Not all games should be Dark Souls level of difficult for the people that want that difficulty, just like not every game should have a story like BioWare's either, there are different games to meet those criteria for people. So there is a risk that they could remove something from the game to accommodate the time and money spent to make the game harder that might be off putting to the people that don't care about the difficulty to the same level. BioWare has the numbers internally of how many people really played and beat the game on insanity so it might be too easy for some people, but the data BioWare release indicates that only 4% of the people beat the game on Insanity so to me that shows it is either not that easy or people aren't interested in that aspect of the game. I think you will find that a lot of the vocal, but influential, minority online and in the gaming press play on Insanity: that alone is a great reason to make it a well done priority (all difficulty levels should be curated appropriately, with care taken to make them all unique). If I easily blaze through any game of late, I nearly see it as a waste of time: I need to be challenged...obviously, my opinion, but that's what über-fan forums are for That depends on if they believe they really have any impact on the majority of sales. AskAGameDev once said that there was a 80/15/5 rule, 80% of the people don't spend anytime talking about the game, 15% of the people read reviews and other articles, and 5% are us. To me that 5% is the hardest segment to change their opinion on, the most group that can be influenced probably doesn't even know this forum exists and that 80% care more about what celebrities are in the game then actual gameplay. |
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Post by ApocAlypsE on Jan 24, 2017 14:29:12 GMT
I don't think it is a deep neural network. Only in the last few years deep neural networks became a popular research topic in the academy because of a breakthrough paper. I think in PES it is an attempt to simulate momentum shifts in games by making your players perform worse and better in waves by tweaking the percentage of good passes and such. |
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Post by Thrombin on Jan 24, 2017 14:45:51 GMT
My main concern with increasing the difficulty of insanity is if there are achievements tied to it and it becomes too difficult. Most of ME3 I can do on insanity no problem but there are two fights that I usually have to turn the difficulty down on in ME3 (The Mirror Match and the Omega DLC finale). Sometimes the Clone fight too, although I managed it this time round with my Adept after a few initial problems.
Trying to get the achievement for the Mirror Match took several playthroughs to find the right class that could handle it (can't remember which it was now, I think, maybe Sentinel). That was, perhaps, just a little too frustrating!
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Ivory Samoan
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Post by Ivory Samoan on Jan 24, 2017 15:19:22 GMT
I would be fucking devastated if they nerfed Insanity........ Keep it at least as hard as ME3, Which was still pretty easy as long as you geared right TBH.
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sjsharp2010
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jan 24, 2017 16:07:10 GMT
I don't think it is a deep neural network. Only in the last few years deep neural networks became a popular research topic in the academy because of a breakthrough paper. I think in PES it is an attempt to simulate momentum shifts in games by making your players perform worse and better in waves by tweaking the percentage of good passes and such. Maybe maybe not but my point was it's a similar sort of mechanic to encourage you to rty different approaches and tactics within the game. |
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Post by sgtreed24 on Jan 24, 2017 16:08:51 GMT
Weird idea, I suppose, but I've always wondered what it might be like to have the AI manage the PC during combat. That'd be a true "Narrative" mode, where the player doesn't have to do any combat at all. Another option for "Narrative" mode is to design every battle to be winnable by squadmates, with little to no assistance required from the player/PC. Yeah, I know it's bizarre. It first occurred to me with the DA games, because the player can take control of any follower and the AI will manage the PC. I had a lot of fun setting up tactics in DAO & DA2, and always thought it would be fun to be able to set up tactics for all 4 members of the group and then watch them play out... I once had an idea for unique AI scripts based on the character's personality rather than them essentially being puppets in combat. So a character like Grunt would be really powerful, but dangerously reckless and you couldn't stop him from charging in during combat. Somebody like Tali wouldn't run in like a berserker simply because she is using "Generic AI Squaddie armed with a shotgun" AI routines that tell her to run up into close combat. She'd fight like she's worried about tearing a hole in her suit. Not sure how well it would actually play out in reality, but it's another weird idea of mine =P LOL, talk about difficult games! Xcom 2 is the most difficult game I have ever played! And there are people who can run through that game easy on legend with Ironman. Those people are ridiculously smart. I started a recent new XCOM game with the new Long War 2 mod. It makes base XCOM 2 seems like a game for casuals =P I WISH this was a thing. Because I'm playing ME2 right now and want Garrus sniping and Grunt to just charge in and tear shit up, but he just sits back shooting his shotgun unless something gets really close to him. Then, he'll charge it. I'd like to have him just go crazy into Krogan Berserk mode and try to headbutt everything lol |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2017 16:15:26 GMT
I once had an idea for unique AI scripts based on the character's personality rather than them essentially being puppets in combat. So a character like Grunt would be really powerful, but dangerously reckless and you couldn't stop him from charging in during combat. Somebody like Tali wouldn't run in like a berserker simply because she is using "Generic AI Squaddie armed with a shotgun" AI routines that tell her to run up into close combat. She'd fight like she's worried about tearing a hole in her suit. Not sure how well it would actually play out in reality, but it's another weird idea of mine =P I started a recent new XCOM game with the new Long War 2 mod. It makes base XCOM 2 seems like a game for casuals =P I WISH this was a thing. Because I'm playing ME2 right now and want Garrus sniping and Grunt to just charge in and tear shit up, but he just sits back shooting his shotgun unless something gets really close to him. Then, he'll charge it. I'd like to have him just go crazy into Krogan Berserk mode and try to headbutt everything lol Have you tried first ordering the squad to attack (pressing UP on the D-Pad, if you're on console) and then quickly ordering Garrus only to cover in a sniping position near the rear of the battlefield? |
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Post by sgtreed24 on Jan 24, 2017 16:24:06 GMT
I WISH this was a thing. Because I'm playing ME2 right now and want Garrus sniping and Grunt to just charge in and tear shit up, but he just sits back shooting his shotgun unless something gets really close to him. Then, he'll charge it. I'd like to have him just go crazy into Krogan Berserk mode and try to headbutt everything lol Have you tried first ordering the squad to attack (pressing UP on the D-Pad, if you're on console) and then quickly ordering Garrus only to cover in a sniping position near the rear of the battlefield? I'm playing on PC. Not a fan of the ol' mouse and keyboard. I keep hitting the wrong buttons for things lol. Anyway, I tell them to attack and it doesn't really feel like they do much of anything unless I use the command that you use to put them in cover, while looking at an enemy, and then they use their powers like concussive shot and such. |
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Thrombin
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Post by Thrombin on Jan 24, 2017 16:54:02 GMT
I WISH this was a thing. Because I'm playing ME2 right now and want Garrus sniping and Grunt to just charge in and tear shit up, but he just sits back shooting his shotgun unless something gets really close to him. Then, he'll charge it. I'd like to have him just go crazy into Krogan Berserk mode and try to headbutt everything lol I can't remember if Grunt does it but Wrex in the ME3 Citadel DLC (Armax Arena) is definitely like that. He melees anything that moves including Banshees, Brutes and Praetorians! |
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sjsharp2010
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jan 24, 2017 17:19:39 GMT
I WISH this was a thing. Because I'm playing ME2 right now and want Garrus sniping and Grunt to just charge in and tear shit up, but he just sits back shooting his shotgun unless something gets really close to him. Then, he'll charge it. I'd like to have him just go crazy into Krogan Berserk mode and try to headbutt everything lol I can't remember if Grunt does it but Wrex in the ME3 Citadel DLC (Armax Arena) is definitely like that. He melees anything that moves including Banshees, Brutes and Praetorians! Yeah Grunt does it too in ME3. Quite often I just let them go in an do the heavy hitting while I stay back and strike at range. As I use them like a tag team in the arena |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2017 17:21:28 GMT
Have you tried first ordering the squad to attack (pressing UP on the D-Pad, if you're on console) and then quickly ordering Garrus only to cover in a sniping position near the rear of the battlefield? I'm playing on PC. Not a fan of the ol' mouse and keyboard. I keep hitting the wrong buttons for things lol. Anyway, I tell them to attack and it doesn't really feel like they do much of anything unless I use the command that you use to put them in cover, while looking at an enemy, and then they use their powers like concussive shot and such. I wonder what I'm doing differently than you then. I'm currently in ME2 with a Vanguard and have been using Grunt a lot with Zaeed on SR (my go to squad for the vanguard at this stage of the game. Grunt is going in close and Zaeed is staying back when I want him too. II am playing on Xbox 360... I wonder if this is something that is more of an issue on the PC. |
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Old school BioWare fan happily enjoying the new games.
