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Post by unofficialgreycolor on Jan 25, 2017 1:20:51 GMT
One thing I love about DA series is you can play as anyone in your party. Its a right Godsend.
AI in ME games has been... lacking. If they could simply make it like DA where you can play as anyone in your party this will give a ton of control for mistakes in AI. Example: Teammate fights out in the open. Control character put them behind cover. Hold position. The AI sees they are behind cover and adjust to make them actually take cover and play like a normal person would in combat.
I get that you can direct where the teammates go, but that is both tedious (because its hard to get it right while you are trying not to get shot) and doesn't allow them to hold position (as far as I am aware) And if it automatically makes them hold position they you have to constantly reposition them based on where the enemies are. I say this based on the trailers we have seen where its not so much bad guys on one side and your team on another.
Also, you could use one character to revive another (Like PC). Mass Effect does the whole "if main character dies, its game over" and I don't like that, its not realistic or immersive. Battle should go one as long as you have someone alive IMO.
I'd like to at least see improved AI if not making it like DA.
Agree or Disagree?
P.S. I think they handled AI in DA:I quite well so IDEK if its going to be an issue.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 25, 2017 1:25:23 GMT
One thing I love about DA series is you can play as anyone in your party. Its a right Godsend. AI in ME games has been... lacking. If they could simply make it like DA where you can play as anyone in your party this will give a ton of control for mistakes in AI. Example: Teammate fights out in the open. Control character put them behind cover. Hold position. The AI sees they are behind cover and adjust to make them actually take cover and play like a normal person would in combat. I get that you can direct where the teammates go, but that is both tedious (because its hard to get it right while you are trying not to get shot) and doesn't allow them to hold position (as far as I am aware) And if it automatically makes them hold position they you have to constantly reposition them based on where the enemies are. I say this based on the trailers we have seen where its not so much bad guys on one side and your team on another. Also, you could use one character to revive another (Like PC). Mass Effect does the whole "if main character dies, its game over" and I don't like that, its not realistic or immersive. Battle should go one as long as you have someone alive IMO. I'd like to at least see improved AI if not making it like DA. Agree or Disagree? P.S. I think they handled AI in DA:I quite well so IDEK if its going to be an issue. I think its not going to matter to much considering I think people usually play as their characters, I know I do. But over in ME ME has always beena bout 'the character' IE Shepard/ Ryder and that is the whole identity of the series, whereas ME DA has been about a character, but they are less defined...usually.
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To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Jan 25, 2017 2:28:19 GMT
One thing I love about DA series is you can play as anyone in your party. Its a right Godsend. AI in ME games has been... lacking. If they could simply make it like DA where you can play as anyone in your party this will give a ton of control for mistakes in AI. Example: Teammate fights out in the open. Control character put them behind cover. Hold position. The AI sees they are behind cover and adjust to make them actually take cover and play like a normal person would in combat. I get that you can direct where the teammates go, but that is both tedious (because its hard to get it right while you are trying not to get shot) and doesn't allow them to hold position (as far as I am aware) And if it automatically makes them hold position they you have to constantly reposition them based on where the enemies are. I say this based on the trailers we have seen where its not so much bad guys on one side and your team on another. Also, you could use one character to revive another (Like PC). Mass Effect does the whole "if main character dies, its game over" and I don't like that, its not realistic or immersive. Battle should go one as long as you have someone alive IMO. I'd like to at least see improved AI if not making it like DA. Agree or Disagree? P.S. I think they handled AI in DA:I quite well so IDEK if its going to be an issue. I think its not going to matter to much considering I think people usually play as their characters, I know I do. But over in ME ME has always beena bout 'the character' IE Shepard/ Ryder and that is the whole identity of the series, whereas ME DA has been about a character, but they are less defined...usually. Thus the point.
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Post by ProbeAway on Jan 25, 2017 6:58:09 GMT
I have to disagree about the AI in Inquisition. It was pretty crappy. Archers and mages (I'm looking at you, Dorian) had a ridiculous tendency to run into melee range. Plus BW dumbed down the AI presets so you were limited to 'follow x' or 'defend x'. A huge step backwards from DAO and DA2. I never minded so much in ME because (a) they had better survivability and ( I was constantly instructing them to use their abilities via the power wheel. Of course, there is apparently no power wheel now so the AI had better be decent!
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Post by extremegamer on Jan 25, 2017 7:55:18 GMT
One thing I love about DA series is you can play as anyone in your party. Its a right Godsend. AI in ME games has been... lacking. If they could simply make it like DA where you can play as anyone in your party this will give a ton of control for mistakes in AI. Example: Teammate fights out in the open. Control character put them behind cover. Hold position. The AI sees they are behind cover and adjust to make them actually take cover and play like a normal person would in combat. I get that you can direct where the teammates go, but that is both tedious (because its hard to get it right while you are trying not to get shot) and doesn't allow them to hold position (as far as I am aware) And if it automatically makes them hold position they you have to constantly reposition them based on where the enemies are. I say this based on the trailers we have seen where its not so much bad guys on one side and your team on another. Also, you could use one character to revive another (Like PC). Mass Effect does the whole "if main character dies, its game over" and I don't like that, its not realistic or immersive. Battle should go one as long as you have someone alive IMO. I'd like to at least see improved AI if not making it like DA. Agree or Disagree? P.S. I think they handled AI in DA:I quite well so IDEK if its going to be an issue. I think its not going to matter to much considering I think people usually play as their characters, I know I do. But over in ME ME has always beena bout 'the character' IE Shepard/ Ryder and that is the whole identity of the series, whereas ME DA has been about a character, but they are less defined...usually. yeah cause Bioware is just too fucking weak to create a character like Geralt from The Witcher 3 or Yennifer . no they want to create play lands with a digital avatar that has no soul or personality at all in them
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Post by SofaJockey on Jan 25, 2017 8:04:13 GMT
I think its not going to matter to much considering I think people usually play as their characters, I know I do. But over in ME ME has always beena bout 'the character' IE Shepard/ Ryder and that is the whole identity of the series, whereas ME DA has been about a character, but they are less defined...usually. yeah cause Bioware is just too fucking weak to create a character like Geralt from The Witcher 3 or Yennifer . no they want to create play lands with a digital avatar that has no soul or personality at all in them I'm sure there are other threads where you can discuss The Witcher III, extremegamer, we're having a reasonable discussion about secondary character control mechanics, which if I recall TW3 is devoid of...
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Post by Cypher on Jan 25, 2017 9:11:04 GMT
I would love to be able to swap to other characters mid-battle; it would open up some nice gameplay dynamics.
I never bought into the excuse/reasoning where Mass Effect is more character driven than Dragon Age, thus the controlling of one character and giving directives over being able to control everyone and still give directives.
Being able to swap to Garrus in combat wouldn't take story focus away from Garrus, because the story isn't about Garrus.
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Post by normandy on Jan 25, 2017 9:33:32 GMT
It could be fun. I played whole DAI as Dorian For RP perspective I wanted a warrior PC, but I liked to play as a mage.
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Post by helios969 on Jan 25, 2017 10:07:35 GMT
From a RP perspective I really dislike the swapping between companions mechanic...and it doesn't make much sense if you're actually RP'ing a character...though I'll admit it is useful for getting unstuck at times. I'm hoping (at least on PC) that I can hot-key companion actions/powers for quick use. I'm actually glad (probably one of the few) that Bio is doing away with the power wheel.
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Post by ProbeAway on Jan 25, 2017 10:32:57 GMT
From a RP perspective I really dislike the swapping between companions mechanic...and it doesn't make much sense if you're actually RP'ing a character...though I'll admit it is useful for getting unstuck at times. I'm hoping (at least on PC) that I can hot-key companion actions/powers for quick use. I'm actually glad (probably one of the few) that Bio is doing away with the power wheel.Really?!? I'm genuinely curious as to why. It's never been forced on anyone - you could always ignore it if you wanted to and play entirely in real time, a la MP. All removing it does is force the 'other half' into a different playstyle. Honestly, the apparent lack of tactical pause is the gameplay issue I am most concerned about. To my knowledge this is the first ever Bioware RPG without it.
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Post by Cypher on Jan 25, 2017 11:06:42 GMT
From a RP perspective I really dislike the swapping between companions mechanic... and it doesn't make much sense if you're actually RP'ing a character...though I'll admit it is useful for getting unstuck at times. I'm hoping (at least on PC) that I can hot-key companion actions/powers for quick use. I'm actually glad (probably one of the few) that Bio is doing away with the power wheel. But for those of us who aren't necessarily rping a character, I don't care about what makes sense, I care about what's fun. Being able to swap between people on the field is more fun. The same amount of effort in roleplaying is used for Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Witcher, Final Fantasy, Breath of Fire, and so on, so hot swapping isn't going to break my immersion--not that I have any anyway--or the immersion of the people like me, and is a flimsy reason to not have it in the game.
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Post by coldsteelblue on Jan 25, 2017 11:12:03 GMT
Switching characters is something that I'd like to see in ME:A personally, would give me the chance to try out other builds/powers without having to constantly switch, just select the right character for the right job at that moment in time. Oh, there's a sniper over there, switch to sniper squaddie, pop, on with game.
Just my opinion.
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Post by Cypher on Jan 25, 2017 11:16:53 GMT
Switching characters is something that I'd like to see in ME:A personally, would give me the chance to try out other builds/powers without having to constantly switch, just select the right character for the right job at that moment in time. Oh, there's a sniper over there, switch to sniper squaddie, pop, on with game. Just my opinion. And it could make the game more forgiving if Ryder dies. Just balance it by making the squaddies unable to use medigel and force them to revive up close and it'd be just fine.
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Post by Ahriman on Jan 25, 2017 11:22:27 GMT
yeah cause Bioware is just too fucking weak to create a character like Geralt from The Witcher 3 or Yennifer . no they want to create play lands with a digital avatar that has no soul or personality at all in them I'm sure there are other threads where you can discuss The Witcher III, extremegamer , we're having a reasonable discussion about secondary character control mechanics, which if I recall TW3 is devoid of... Oh please, just use magic button already. The guy isn't even trying.
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Post by javeart on Jan 25, 2017 11:23:21 GMT
What I really loved from DA, more even than being able to control other companions, is being able to set up tactics for them, so that you can give them instructions before the battle and focus on just controlling your PC. The options in DAI to do so were very limited, but better than nothing I guess. Not that I'm expecting anything like that in MEA, but talking about what we would like... I have to say that there was a time when I actually thought they might give us the chance to control our squadmates, just because it seemed they were taking so many things from DAI that why not this too? But now I think that all the control over them we're going to get is more or less just choosing the three powers they're going to use in each battle, assigning one of them for direct control, like we did in the OT, and not much else. But, personally, I'm fine with it
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Post by SofaJockey on Jan 25, 2017 11:27:41 GMT
Oh please, just use magic button already. The guy isn't even trying. Only wielded with loving care, Ahriman , (but I understand your point)
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Jan 25, 2017 11:30:13 GMT
For the record, CDPR did not create Geralt or Yennefer. They stole them and their characterization from 7 (or so) full-length novels about them and they did it well but they also break Geralt's character for the sake of player-service severalt times in the games and otherwise it's limited how much Geralt is YOUR character.
BioWare gets my imagination going and I always feel like my character has plenty of soul because I fill in the blanks whenever I pick a dialogue that sounds a little generic. Coupled with my background and military service I always create a subconscious motivation for my Shepards and the same goes for Dragon Age games and it totally works for me.
I am playing as a Torfan spacer human supremacist right now and the game let's me do it because I can skip recruiting half the aliens in ME2 and be an asshole to the rest. I signed a signature for Terra Firma and agreed with Ashley and I agreed with Cerberus so far, and once the reapers come around I know Kirrahe will die and I think Tali and her pathetic Quarians will end up succumbing to the lifeless Geth before I steal the torch from The Illusive Man and control the galaxy.
This is all so completely different from any previous playthrough and only BioWare games let me do this while still having a highly cinematic and engaging narrative.
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Post by traks on Jan 25, 2017 12:14:40 GMT
Disagreed. Let DA be DA and ME be ME!
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Post by ravenous on Jan 25, 2017 13:53:50 GMT
I disagree I have never found switching to different characters fun. Just let ME be ME and DA be DA and leave the whole character swap out of ME
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Post by sgtreed24 on Jan 25, 2017 14:45:35 GMT
wouldn't take story focus away from Garrus, because the story isn't about Garrus. Or... is it?
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Post by maximusarael020 on Jan 25, 2017 14:58:29 GMT
The should bring back "voice commands" for squadies. You could use the Kinect or just mics for people without the all-mighty XBone. I know it never works exactly right, but it would be great if you could use commands like "Garrus, take cover!" or "Miranda, fall back!" or "Tali, on me!", etc. I mean every console comes with a headset with a mic. I know there would be issues for some people, but I think it could be very useful.
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Post by Cyberstrike on Jan 25, 2017 15:13:02 GMT
I would love to be able to swap to other characters mid-battle; it would open up some nice gameplay dynamics. I never bought into the excuse/reasoning where Mass Effect is more character driven than Dragon Age, thus the controlling of one character and giving directives over being able to control everyone and still give directives. Being able to swap to Garrus in combat wouldn't take story focus away from Garrus, because the story isn't about Garrus. There is also the idea to try out other classes. In any Dragon Age game I tend to play as a duel wielding rouge, and rarely change because I'm very familiar with that class and know how to work it very well. By allowing me to change to a warrior for a while (it doesn't matter if weapon & shield or two handed weapon) I can at least try out if it's a class that I might want to play in another playthrough and I can learn the basics from controlling characters like Alistair, Aveline, Iron Bull and the other warriors in the games and figure out what works for me, and what doesn't work for me (weapon and shield or two handed weapons, which weapons, skills, abilities, etc) likewise with rouge archers characters like Leliana, Varric, and Sera and the various mages. This saves me a lot time for instance I found that for me the two handed weapon warrior and rouge archers classes didn't work for me for my style of gameplay. I can play Leliana, Varric, Sera, Sten, Fenris, and Iron Bull for short periods of time but if I play my Grey Warden, Hawke, and Inquisitor in that class it wouldn't be much fun for me. The same with mages, especially in DA2 and DA:I. This save me a lot of time because I'm stuck playing classes that aren't fun for me, so I don't have waste time in character creator making my PC look the way that I want them to look, play through all the prologues and endless dialogue wheels and boxes, only to realize that the class I selected isn't any fun for me to play.
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Post by dmc1001 on Jan 25, 2017 23:01:40 GMT
I don't care for it. In Mass Effect, I got to BE Commander Shepard because Shepard was the only one I controlled. I like that style. I don't actually want to play as other party members. I only found it useful in DA:I when a glitch could be solved by switching to a character who could shoot energy to kill an enemy that fell between cracks and prevented me from moving onward. That could also be dealt with by allowing a console command to cause an enemy to die, like in Skyrim and Fallout.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 25, 2017 23:08:40 GMT
I don't care for it. In Mass Effect, I got to BE Commander Shepard because Shepard was the only one I controlled. I like that style. I don't actually want to play as other party members. I only found it useful in DA:I when a glitch could be solved by switching to a character who could shoot energy to kill an enemy that fell between cracks and prevented me from moving onward. That could also be dealt with by allowing a console command to cause an enemy to die, like in Skyrim and Fallout. Or the glitch where your party members freeze and you have to jump into them and have them jump so they start moving again and actually fighting and doing stuff. Had a party wipe happen because of it. On the flip side the one advantage that having you be able to control multiple party members is one of difficulty. If the fight was going poorly and your character was down you could easily pick up sticks and run the other way to get out of harms way. With Andromeda this tactic will be impossible.
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Post by dmc1001 on Jan 25, 2017 23:11:52 GMT
I don't care for it. In Mass Effect, I got to BE Commander Shepard because Shepard was the only one I controlled. I like that style. I don't actually want to play as other party members. I only found it useful in DA:I when a glitch could be solved by switching to a character who could shoot energy to kill an enemy that fell between cracks and prevented me from moving onward. That could also be dealt with by allowing a console command to cause an enemy to die, like in Skyrim and Fallout. Or the glitch where your party members freeze and you have to jump into them and have them jump so they start moving again and actually fighting and doing stuff. Had a party wipe happen because of it. On the flip side the one advantage that having you be able to control multiple party members is one of difficulty. If the fight was going poorly and your character was down you could easily pick up sticks and run the other way to get out of harms way. With Andromeda this tactic will be impossible. If it's that hard of a fight, and you don't think you'll ever win it, I imagine you can dial down the difficulty level for the game and return for a win.
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