Kimberly
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Kimberly on Feb 24, 2017 21:19:09 GMT
I'm still holding out hope the one of the male squadmates is BI, if not both. I wish they would release the orientations so if there is disappointment, we can get it all out our systems.
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Post by witchcocktor on Feb 24, 2017 21:20:16 GMT
I'm still holding out hope the one of the male squadmates is BI, if not both. I wish they would release the orientations so if there is disappointment, we can get it all out our systems. but if they do that, and ppl aren't satisfied, they'll cancel their preorders!!! cant have that now can we
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Post by Davrin's boobs on Feb 24, 2017 21:23:46 GMT
I'm still holding out hope the one of the male squadmates is BI, if not both. I wish they would release the orientations so if there is disappointment, we can get it all out our systems. Exactly. I don't understand their marketing strategy really, there're already people cancelling their preorders
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Post by Petroshenko on Feb 24, 2017 21:23:53 GMT
People can change. It's been, what, around 6-7 years since he said that about ME3? I'm not asking you to forgive and forget, only to try to see the potential that things might have gotten better. I don't blame you for being pessimistic one bit. I was late to the ME party (played the first time in 2014,) but I'm very familiar with the history. Including stuff about the ME team saying that Shepard couldn't get gay and things like that. It was more of shady jab really, I'm way over ME3 drama (5 years c'mon) Doesn't mean I'm just gonna nod and blindly buy what sounds like pre-emptive excuses for potentially obvious imbalance and the reasons for one. Taking "we'll see about that" approach, what info is coming out right now definitely doesn't make me optimistic, nor their refusal to even tweet a funny "Maaaaaaybe" gif to any squad m/m romance questions like they do for anything else. Looks just fishy
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Post by Natashina on Feb 24, 2017 21:25:56 GMT
I'll be honest I'm not going to preorder anyways. The patch cycle for DA:I was insane and every BioWare game I've picked up on Day 1 has had some pretty bad bugs. I'm sure ME:A will be a bit better than DA:I since they don't have to deal with 5 different platforms, but I'd rather save myself the headache. I'll be picking it up probably about a month after it comes out to give it some inevitable patching time. It was more of shady jab really, I'm way over ME3 drama (5 years c'mon) Doesn't mean I'm just gonna nod and blindly buy what sounds like pre-emptive excuses for potentially obvious imbalance and the reasons for one. Taking "we'll see about that" approach, what info is coming out right now definitely doesn't make me optimistic, nor their refusal to even tweet a funny "Maaaaaaybe" gif to any squad m/m romance questions like they do for anything else. Looks just fishy I'm not asking you to do that either. There should be a middle ground between blind faith and automatically assuming the worst is all. For what it's worth, I'm not a fan of this cagey attitude from the devs either. It's not like having a m/m romance is something new for the company. Most fans of BioWare games aren't going to clench their pearls (so to speak) about a gay or male bisexual squadmate as a LI. A few would, but BioWare definitely learned to ignore those players years ago. It might seem cute to the ME team, but it isn't sending a great message to gay/bisexual guys that are already feeling burned after the MET.
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Kimberly
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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XBL Gamertag: Kimberlia
PSN: kimj75
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Post by Kimberly on Feb 24, 2017 21:28:55 GMT
I'm still holding out hope the one of the male squadmates is BI, if not both. I wish they would release the orientations so if there is disappointment, we can get it all out our systems. Exactly. I don't understand their marketing strategy really, there're already people cancelling their preorders I have games I play without romance, which is a lot. A big draw for BW games is the relationships. Friends & romances. So I buy their games for that and story. It's one reason a lot of people get their games. I hope it works out for everyone. I'd be very disappointed in BW if they drop the ball on gay romances. Again!
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Post by Artemis on Feb 24, 2017 21:30:28 GMT
Also, well, Jaal certainly wears very bright colors, and he is marked as a Resistance Fighter. So, would not he conform to a stereotype, were he bi or gay, and a non-cliché, if he were straight if you follow that odd line of argument? Which I, again, disagree with. Look. If Jaal is straight ... and he ends up being a "fucks anything that moves" kind of guy then I'll give you this one. Trope broken. If he ends up being flamboyant and addicted to fashion, I'll give it to you. But if he ends up being strong and intelligent and slightly brooding, like basically every straight male love interest in BioWare history, then no. He fits the trope. In fact, it was almost too much to believe. Jaal has alien KISA written all over him. No way that guy's bi or gay.
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Post by Suaimhneas on Feb 24, 2017 21:30:57 GMT
What worries me with NPC romances is the amount of content. Squadmates can be taken with you almost everywhere you go. I recall Traynor being absent from the entire Leviathan DLC because her character wasn't involved in the plot whereas pretty much everyone else got a romance acknowledgement at some point during the DLC. It's not a huge issue, but it’s the little things that make romances for me personally.
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Post by Ianamus on Feb 24, 2017 21:32:14 GMT
I heard David Gaider say almost the exact same words about characters and sexuality during the dev cycle for DA:I. Both of the romance options for gay/bisexual male Inquisitors were squadmates. I know there was some big complaints about both of them for various reasons, but they weren't relegated to NPCs. So I wouldn't give up all hope just yet. For me it has nothing to do with their comments and everything to do with the numerous leaks from people who have been very accurate up until now. I know that leaks aren't confirmed, but they are looking incredibly genuine. Enough to remove almost any doubt on my part. Acceptance is a strong word, but I've calmed down about it. I'm interested in seeing how they will handle the coming backlash, and if they will try to make up for it in DLC like they did with the criticisms levied at ME3.
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Post by Petroshenko on Feb 24, 2017 21:32:58 GMT
What worries me with NPC romances is the amount of content. Squadmates can be taken with you almost everywhere you go. I recall Traynor being absent from the entire Leviathan DLC because her character wasn't involved in the plot whereas pretty much everyone else got a romance acknowledgement at some point during the DLC. It's not a huge issue, but it’s the little things that make romances for me personally. Not to mention the sprawling showpiece Loyalty missions. Tempest crew will NOT have those.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 21:34:48 GMT
Except they are not. Alistair is roguish, boyish and charming with deep-seated "I am a bastard" issues. He is extremely unprofessional. If he were, he'd be leading as a senior warden, not let a gal just admitted to the order do the ordering around. He sinks into a deep depression after Dunkan's death. He dumps a non-human female on assuming the throne, because he is so insecure. Nothing literally stops him from a passionate unlawful revenge kill. If I had to describe him in one word, it would be "insecure". Have no idea about Cullen, and Blackwall, but from what I read, Solas is a walking time-bomb of some sort, so he is unnaturally unemotional (if he is, I have not played it yet). Is not Blackwall some sort of a renegade who betrayed people also? Jacob is trying to be cool & professional, but he is not. He also commits a patricide in front of you, not exactly an act of a rational man. he makes a mess from his personal life, jumping from Miranda, to the PC, to Brianne in space of two years. Certainly not one woman's man. How many Isabela's lovers do you get to meet and greet? Shepard meets two of Jacob's lovers... Garrus is a vagabond to start with, a guy who can't even hold his job because he can't conform to the rules, cannot stand the red tape, etc. Yes, he has a wonderfully soothing voice, but you find him in a shoot-out with all the gangs on Omega, sheepishly confessing that he has... miscalculated when he hit a beehive with a stick. He is as rebellious as any rogue that took to smuggling. he is also willing to share a story or two from his colorful past about his ex (he was not engaged to, just had kinky sex). Thane is a spiritual child-assassin who used children to gather intel for him in the past, left his family because he was simply unsuited for a quiet domestic bliss... and would do anything to keep his son from taking up the same career. If he was a calm, proud professional, he'd be still happily married and training his son to inherit the métier... You, guys, are trying to find clichés where there is none... Did you see Cullen in DAO, DA2. He is a Templar, so lyrium addict. In Ferelden Circle he tortured by the demons, and in DA2 he did see more demons, abominations and blood mages, plus his glorified Commander become mad. Massive PTSD. He afraid from mages, but he can overcome this, and working without hatred. Yes, he's professional, and I think he's a KISA. All people, even a KISA have past, and not perfect. Would nice for me. Blackwall? You will see. He also have past. But he's also a protective type. Solas not walking bomb. Solas have god-complex... but he's not KISA, he story-wise. These are not perfect, nobody said that, but some of them (you're right, not all of them) embodies a type. According of many people these characters does not make sense that being gay / bi, and it hurts many gay/bi people. (I wanted Garrus. I always liked Garrus types. I like rebels, who hates burokracy, and can't confirm the rules. And he's a good friend.)Again, I am totally empathizing with: "I'd love to romance this companion on this particular character". The only thing I am very much against is trying to catch a few superficial similes, to catalogue BioWARE characters into some sort of sexuality likelihoods based on it. Or make assumptions that BioWARE never did or never will do a character like "insert description". I am also very much against picking a group of players, based on anything at all, and start pointing at it as a reason of perceived insufficient attention to another arbitrary group of players. I accord every player a respect for what s/he choses to love in a work of fiction. I expect the same. BioWARE writers are creative people with enviable jobs. Like any work of art and fiction we may or may not like their works. That's fine. It's just I am not seeing the profiling and stereotyping that is implied, and tbh I feel that the overly generalizing comments about the straight male companions are made in the heat of the moment and as a result of a disappointment that comes from incomplete information. I am sorry, doubly, triply sorry that someone is disappointed, but I know what I have experienced with those characters, and those are versatile experiences and distinct personalities.
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Post by Joey on Feb 24, 2017 21:37:59 GMT
ME:A releases on my birthday, so I have an opportunity to get preorder for free as a gift. And for now I don't even want this game for free. I don't have any other idea what I want as my birthday gift and still, I don't want ME:A.
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Post by Davrin's boobs on Feb 24, 2017 21:39:54 GMT
What worries me with NPC romances is the amount of content. Squadmates can be taken with you almost everywhere you go. I recall Traynor being absent from the entire Leviathan DLC because her character wasn't involved in the plot whereas pretty much everyone else got a romance acknowledgement at some point during the DLC. It's not a huge issue, but it’s the little things that make romances for me personally. That is why I'm not buying at full price if there's not a single bi/gay male squadmate, I don't care if he's ugly just give me one and show me that I care as consumer, the amount of care that those characters have is a thing that npcs never will have (I love Cullen, his romance is awesome, but it's not the same for me), just imagine the last scene with your LI in ME3, the heartbreaking farewell, npcs won't ever have that.
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Post by Catilina on Feb 24, 2017 21:41:47 GMT
Did you see Cullen in DAO, DA2. He is a Templar, so lyrium addict. In Ferelden Circle he tortured by the demons, and in DA2 he did see more demons, abominations and blood mages, plus his glorified Commander become mad. Massive PTSD. He afraid from mages, but he can overcome this, and working without hatred. Yes, he's professional, and I think he's a KISA. All people, even a KISA have past, and not perfect. Would nice for me. Blackwall? You will see. He also have past. But he's also a protective type. Solas not walking bomb. Solas have god-complex... but he's not KISA, he story-wise. These are not perfect, nobody said that, but some of them (you're right, not all of them) embodies a type. According of many people these characters does not make sense that being gay / bi, and it hurts many gay/bi people. (I wanted Garrus. I always liked Garrus types. I like rebels, who hates burokracy, and can't confirm the rules. And he's a good friend.)Again, I am totally empathizing with: "I'd love to romance this companion on this particular character". The only thing I am very much against is trying to catch a few superficial similes, to catalogue BioWARE characters into some sort of sexuality likelihoods based on it. Or make assumptions that BioWARE never did or never will do a character like "insert description". I am also very much against picking a group of players, based on anything at all, and start pointing at it as a reason of perceived insufficient attention to another arbitrary group of players. I accord every player a respect for what s/he choses to love in a work of fiction. I expect the same. BioWARE writers are creative people with enviable jobs. Like any work of art and fiction we may or may not like their works. That's fine. It's just I am not seeing the profiling and stereotyping that is implied, and tbh I feel that the overly generalizing comments about the straight male companions are made in the heat of the moment and as a result of a disappointment that comes from incomplete information. I am sorry, doubly, triply sorry that someone is disappointed, but I know what I have experienced with those characters, and those are versatile experiences and distinct personalities. You don't need to exuse or something, I see your points. I just wanted to explain the reasons.
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Post by Petroshenko on Feb 24, 2017 21:43:32 GMT
ME:A releases on my birthday, so I have an opportunity to get preorder for free as a gift. And for now I don't even want this game for free. I don't have any other idea what I want as my birthday gift and still, I don't want ME:A. You can always fund my Andromeda in that case
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Post by zaefkol on Feb 24, 2017 21:47:21 GMT
What Mike Gamble briefly says about squad members and loyalty missions in this video just reaffirms why I believe having a squad member LI is so important.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 24, 2017 21:48:05 GMT
What worries me with NPC romances is the amount of content. Squadmates can be taken with you almost everywhere you go. I recall Traynor being absent from the entire Leviathan DLC because her character wasn't involved in the plot whereas pretty much everyone else got a romance acknowledgement at some point during the DLC. It's not a huge issue, but it’s the little things that make romances for me personally. Not to mention the sprawling showpiece Loyalty missions. Tempest crew will NOT have those. Just as a note, since I'm not debating your point, but while not having loyalty mission, crewmates will have missions. Ian confirmed it on twitter.
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Post by Natashina on Feb 24, 2017 21:50:43 GMT
<---my mod mode hat This isn't directed at anyone in particular, but I want to bring this up now. I can see this thread only continuing as the game launches and I've seen romance threads on BioWare forums before. They tend to get more and more heated the more active they become. There are BioWare devs that are members of this site. If you see a [BIO] tag, that means they are a real developer for the company. Cyonan (our gracious admin) as well as Sofa double check to make sure anyone that claims to be such is the real deal. I know that some folks are probably going to be very upset for various reasons. We do welcome criticism and we want folks to express their opinions about the games, good or bad. I want to remind everyone that it is against the rules to take your frustrations out on the devs that are a part of this site. Anyone that does will be subject to swift and harsh disciplinary action by the mods. Being critical of gameplay decisions is perfectly a-okay. However, we won't tolerate any of the crazier shit going down here like with what happened after ME3. You know, rape/death/beating threats, stalking devs via PMs, calling out devs to insult them directly, things of that nature. That does go for devs that don't post here as well. If you want to encourage or engage in any of that behavior, take it elsewhere. We don't want any part of that. So please keep that in mind as we go through the coming weeks.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 21:51:30 GMT
Fryda has some nice words for those who feel left out/marginalized in the game:
🚀Fryda Wolff@frydawolff On this day Mass Effect: Andromeda goes gold, I'd like to present a wanky self-aggrandizing thread where I say a few words. About myself.
🚀Fryda Wolff @frydawolff @frydawolff I hope Andromeda takes you to places where you feel as included and considered as you deserve to be. I hope I do right by you.
🚀Fryda Wolff@frydawolff @frydawolff Because BioWare wants you to project whatever sort of person you want to be and look like, the fan base as a result is as varied
🚀Fryda Wolff@frydawolff @frydawolff BioWare games don't set limits on what kind of person you can be to play, nor what kind of person you can be in game.
🚀Fryda Wolff@frydawolff @frydawolff This is important. By trying to control the protagonist, you control the audience. And small scope means small audience.
🚀Fryda Wolff@frydawolff @frydawolff So instead of being honored to be your protagonist, I feel responsible as your protagonist. I have a responsibility to your view
🚀Fryda Wolff@frydawolff @frydawolff Between seeing the sheer variety of both followers and the limitless Ryders artists have sketched out, I think I get it now.
🚀Fryda Wolff@frydawolff @frydawolff I hope whoever you are and wherever you come from, especially if you feel marginalized and left out, you matter here.
🚀Fryda Wolff@frydawolff @frydawolff That's it, that's what I wanted to say. I see you and I hear you and I'm thinking of you, too. Keep on spacing. 🚀🌈💖
Jas @lady_Manhands @frydawolff as a young black woman who loves the ME series primarily bc it allows me to create a hero who looks like me, this means so much
🚀Fryda Wolff @frydawolff Representation matters. Always has, always will.
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Post by zaefkol on Feb 24, 2017 21:52:04 GMT
Not to mention the sprawling showpiece Loyalty missions. Tempest crew will NOT have those. Just as a note, since I'm not debating your point, but while not having loyalty mission, crewmates will have missions. Ian confirmed it on twitter. Well, that's something at least.
Edit: This makes me wonder if we can take non-squadmates out into the field in some capacity when they're involved in a specific mission. One can hope.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 21:56:36 GMT
Also, well, Jaal certainly wears very bright colors, and he is marked as a Resistance Fighter. So, would not he conform to a stereotype, were he bi or gay, and a non-cliché, if he were straight if you follow that odd line of argument? Which I, again, disagree with. Look. If Jaal is straight ... and he ends up being a "fucks anything that moves" kind of guy then I'll give you this one. Trope broken. If he ends up being flamboyant and addicted to fashion, I'll give it to you. But if he ends up being strong and intelligent and slightly brooding, like basically every straight male love interest in BioWare history, then no. He fits the trope. Anomen - flies off his handle on a regular basis all game long. Haer'Dalis was supposed to be straight, and looked like a parrot, and was endlessly spouting flowery metaphors, and not a fool around women. Doc - straight male in SWTOR. Everything that moves. Honestly, I doubt he'd stopped to check for pulse. Actually grabs a speeder from under the nose of the female PC and tells her to fend for herself, she is a big girl. Atton - straight male in KOTOR flamboyant and wears dat jacket... a strong woman dies to save him and he is endlessly telling jokes, cheats in cards and does his best to appear untrustworthy. Thane - have you seen what that guy wears? And how he chats about philosophy and the waves of memories... I think he was supposed to be bi, but was changed over... so how come his personality is apparently typical of a staright guy if he was developed as a bi to start with??? In fact they even forgot he was a romance at all. Quinn - a submissive man who endlessly fights for his dignity in the military, seeks only to serve a mighty Lord (an unflattering stereotype, but straight...) Jacobs: Jumps a genetically engineered woman, dumps her in favor of a dead, then restored from blackened remains woman he'd just saw being restored from a corpse, the dumps her to immediately impregnate a scientists that deals with that kind of a crazy research. Alistair - an insecure kid who talks a girl into bed, dumps a girl, then goes into a bad with a dominatrix that insulted him for months on end on the order of the said girl, and the other dominant woman straight out says he has no steel in him....
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Post by Artemis on Feb 24, 2017 21:57:33 GMT
Look. If Jaal is straight ... and he ends up being a "fucks anything that moves" kind of guy then I'll give you this one. Trope broken. If he ends up being flamboyant and addicted to fashion, I'll give it to you. But if he ends up being strong and intelligent and slightly brooding, like basically every straight male love interest in BioWare history, then no. He fits the trope. Anomen - flies off his handle on a regular basis all game long. Haer'Dalis was supposed to be straight, and looked like a parrot, and was endlessly spouting flowery metaphors, and not a fool around women. Doc - straight male in SWTOR. Everything that moves. Honestly, I doubt some of them even had pulse. Actually grabs a speeder from under the nose of the female PC and tells her to fend for herself, she is a big girl. Atton - straight male in KOTOR flamboyant and wears dat jacket... a strong woman dies to save him and he is endlessly telling jokes, cheats in cards and does his best to appear untrustworthy. Thane - have you seen what that guy wears? And how he chats about philosophy and the waves of memories... I think he was supposed to be bi, but was changed over... so how come his personality is apparently typical of a staright guy if he was developed as a bi to start with??? In fact they even forgot he was a romance at all. Quinn - a submissive man who endlessly fights for his dignity in the military, seeks only to serve a mighty Lord (an unflattering stereotype, but straight...) Jacobs: Jumps a genetically engineered woman, dumps her in favor of a dead, then restored from blackened remains woman he'd just saw being restored from a corpse, the dumps her to immediately impregnate a scientists that deals with that kind of a crazy research. Alistair - an insecure kid who talks a girl into bed, dumps a girl, then goes into a bad with a dominatrix that insulted him for months on end on the order of the said girl, and the other dominant woman straight out says he has no steel in him.... At this point I don't even know if you're being serious or not, so just forget it.
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Post by Natashina on Feb 24, 2017 21:59:16 GMT
Can we just direct our rage at you and other mods then? Nice try, but no. Yes, I could tell you were joking.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 22:06:25 GMT
Anomen - flies off his handle on a regular basis all game long. Haer'Dalis was supposed to be straight, and looked like a parrot, and was endlessly spouting flowery metaphors, and not a fool around women. Doc - straight male in SWTOR. Everything that moves. Honestly, I doubt some of them even had pulse. Actually grabs a speeder from under the nose of the female PC and tells her to fend for herself, she is a big girl. Atton - straight male in KOTOR flamboyant and wears dat jacket... a strong woman dies to save him and he is endlessly telling jokes, cheats in cards and does his best to appear untrustworthy. Thane - have you seen what that guy wears? And how he chats about philosophy and the waves of memories... I think he was supposed to be bi, but was changed over... so how come his personality is apparently typical of a staright guy if he was developed as a bi to start with??? In fact they even forgot he was a romance at all. Quinn - a submissive man who endlessly fights for his dignity in the military, seeks only to serve a mighty Lord (an unflattering stereotype, but straight...) Jacobs: Jumps a genetically engineered woman, dumps her in favor of a dead, then restored from blackened remains woman he'd just saw being restored from a corpse, the dumps her to immediately impregnate a scientists that deals with that kind of a crazy research. Alistair - an insecure kid who talks a girl into bed, dumps a girl, then goes into a bad with a dominatrix that insulted him for months on end on the order of the said girl, and the other dominant woman straight out says he has no steel in him.... At this point I don't even know if you're being serious or not, so just forget it. Of course I am serious. I do not find all straight BioWARE males intended to romance the female PC to be strong, intelligent and slightly brooding. On the contrary, I find that most of them are quite immature, require a lot of help and support from the female PC to start growing, and are not of the take charge, strong & silent type. And I prefer a mature, strong & silent type. If someone asked me to pick the more mature and a stronger man out of Zevran and Alistair, I will point out Zevran. And I have forgotten the good old Vector, a man who literally referred to himself as "we", where "we" were a bunch of intelligent space termites sharing the mind connection and the song across the galaxy... basically, the rachni. Not to mention that by some I'll-understood reason, he wore a bra and a female version of all outfits. But, yes, let's forget it. It's probably better for now.
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Post by Dirk on Feb 24, 2017 22:16:03 GMT
Regardless of romance options, I am glad that we have passionated and lovely voice actor/actress who understand what we want.
For me I am not going to cancel my preorder just yet because I bought it when it was 30% off and I am sure that I will enjoy the game (combats look great so far). I don't have many options in games with m/m romance anyway.
If there is a lack in m/m squad mate romance, it will always be a sore point for me. But for now, it is not confirmed and I will cling to the hope that until confirmed otherwise. (yes, I have reached the acceptance stage.)
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