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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 19:10:10 GMT
I don't think the straight men's situation is at all comparable to a the gay men's position rn. From what we see right now, straight men have all three female squadmates to choose from, while gay men have no squadmates to choose from, unless they prove us wrong on that front. And, if my friend's leak is right, straight men will still have more squadmate romances than lesbians or straight women. I know, that's why I never have a gay character in any Bioware game, after all, the character is not me, you can always play a straight Scott Ryder you know? Who knows, maybe you'll love Cora, Peebee, or whoever else is straight romance, if there is even a straight romance seeing how Bioware hates penises, anyway, you can always love a female romance way more than the gay char. I understand your frustration but you are being silly now.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 19:10:36 GMT
All 4 LIs in DA2 were bisexual. Anders was a romantic and a one true-love seeker. Merrill was a shy girl. Fenris was a tortured virgin with PTSD. Cytherat was an honorable man through and through. Kaidan was a neurotic/boring good guy. My straight romance in MET, Thane was not a shade of boring or dull. My straight romance in SWTOR for a Knight Female was a womanizer that had an option to start laughing in his face, when he brought up marriage and actually loving the PC. My straight romance for a female Consular was a complete nut-case who had an affair with a voluptuous female hologram (and left PC for her). Juhani was a warrior type. Sky was roguish, but honorable. ??? Yeah, my bad. I meant to say Leliana, fixed. Dull is not the word I myself used for Thane. But he was not some flamboyant rebellious straight guy romance. He easily fits the professional, calm demeanor of most of Bioware's straight men. None of the other characters you listed are in the ME/DA universe, where romances are much more cliched. I probably should've on clarified DA ME games only, where the focus much more on the characters. BioWARE writers are BioWARE writers. They go between the projects and borrow ideas between them. Just because you have not played the entire selection of BioWARE games, and have not seen what they've offered their fans, does not mean they do not exist. But they cannot put every single one in one game. Unless they have a gigantic cast, like in Baldur's gate 1 and 2. Each of BioWARE's games (and Obsidians') save for Icewind Dale, Storm of Zehir and NWN1 focused on the characters. Each had romances. Do not artificially limit it to their 2 latest franchises... it makes you a disservice as a fan, to be honest, not trying their other products. Thane is first and foremost exotic. He is a philosophical, spiritual man and a martial artist... sure he is not a clown, but in no way or shape is he dull. Atton was a poster-boy for a flamboyant rogue who featured a straight romance with a female PC... and trust me, KOTOR2 (with all content restored to the original intent) obsessed over the characters au par with ME2/DA2. So did JE... that did not even have a straight female interest, just two bisexual ones. Numen Brock on balmorra was a sharp-witted rogue that romanced a straight female Smuggler for a bit (I missed that guy all game long). If you want interesting romantic experiences in video-games, Obsidian and BioWARE games are the place to find them. Not in each and every game you will find a character that will exactly match what you have always wanted, but keep playing, and you will likely find a gem here and there, that will be memorable and awesome. No matter what sexuality it was written for, and by which of their staff writers. And, sometimes, they are even asexual, but leaves you with an emotional high that reminds you entirely of having a crash when you were sixteen.... If you would like to complain that there is a particular romance you cannot initiate on a particular character, I will empathize. But if I rack my brain, I can bring up so many romances in Bio/Obsi games and so variable... I doubt there is a stone left unturned, lol. Some of them, tbh, I would have preferred to be left in place.
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Post by ash on Feb 24, 2017 19:10:53 GMT
So, how much time do you think will our m/m romance with Gil will last? 4 cutscenes main-game and 2 more in DLC, like it was with Cortez? Didn't they say the sex scene was a "fade to black"? Well, that gives you an idea of how shitty and short the romance is going to be, and since they never have shown Gil before, he is not going to be important for the plot at all. In case you missed it.
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Post by Panda on Feb 24, 2017 19:11:05 GMT
I'm really leaning on the troll side.
I'd really prefer if Bioware just released romance info before hand. People would still be angry about it on various things, either cause it's unfair or just cause they think women are too manly or some BS reason like that. But it would really take lot of edge of that out, kinda just ripping of the bandage on one go and not just ripping it off bit by bit.
I don't know what's up with me, usually I'm pessimistic person- but for some reason I'm still holding up hope for that gaylien romance with Norman. I'm still thinking Jaal is going to be bi LI and that Kallo open for both as well. I guess I have hit my head or sth.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Feb 24, 2017 19:12:33 GMT
Thank you. Very well said. It's also so very nice when the moderator comes in and says "this is not a topic for sjw". Which has nothing to do with anything that was going on. But hey, some people just throw words around, who cares about meaning or what was the actual topic of discussion. And now, because of this and that moderator's lack of tact (which was probably seen as bias, which I can totally understand), we lost another good person from the forum. Way to stay impartial moderator. Real professional. Anyway, I won't bother with that anymore, to be back on topic, I still need to read a few pages. Seems I missed some info. I did not say "SJW". I was under the impression that whatever negative connotations or loss of credibility that term had incurred, the term "social justice" is still valid. Would you prefer "real world issues" instead? Because my point remains, even if the terminology was off.
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Post by ash on Feb 24, 2017 19:12:49 GMT
I would hope for more than that. They got him a star actor to voice him, after all! They had Rana to be a face model for Samara, Indira as a voice for Vivienne, Seth Green as Joker. You can guess how many of them were romanceable.
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Post by Sole Survivor on Feb 24, 2017 19:13:28 GMT
I know, that's why I never have a gay character in any Bioware game, after all, the character is not me, you can always play a straight Scott Ryder you know? Who knows, maybe you'll love Cora, Peebee, or whoever else is straight romance, if there is even a straight romance seeing how Bioware hates penises, anyway, you can always love a female romance way more than the gay char. I understand your frustration but you are being silly now. Because of saying that if you are gay in real life you can play an straight character? shocking Or because Bioware has proven with Dragon age 2 and Inquisition that they prefer to give more content to women, plus they have been showing Sara a lot more, and the only female human Squad romance (Cora) men have doesn't look like a biotic beauty, neither is her voice appealing.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Feb 24, 2017 19:15:48 GMT
CrutchCricket Here a photo for reference. She was in a season of Game of Thrones. She was also in season one of the HBO program "Rome." Yeah, I'm not sure she's on the same level as Natalie Dormer in terms of popularity (with nerds at any rate). But yeah, just cross our fingers I guess.
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Post by Sole Survivor on Feb 24, 2017 19:17:46 GMT
CrutchCricket Here a photo for reference. She was in a season of Game of Thrones. She was also in season one of the HBO program "Rome." Yeah, I'm not sure she's on the same level as Natalie Dormer in terms of popularity (with nerds at any rate). But yeah, just cross our fingers I guess. If they wanted to call the attention of nerds they would have tried to get Emma Watson a long time ago.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Feb 24, 2017 19:20:29 GMT
If they wanted to call the attention of nerds they would have tried to get Emma Watson a long time ago. Who says they didn't? Maybe negotiations fell through. Has Emma Watson ever voiced a game (apart from presumably Harry Potter)? Although if you're trying to imply Emma Watson > Natalie Dormer I must respectfully ask you to step outside
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 19:24:22 GMT
Yeah, my bad. I meant to say Leliana, fixed. Dull is not the word I myself used for Thane. But he was not some flamboyant rebellious straight guy romance. He easily fits the professional, calm demeanor of most of Bioware's straight men. None of the other characters you listed are in the ME/DA universe, where romances are much more cliched. I probably should've on clarified DA ME games only, where the focus much more on the characters. BioWARE writers are BioWARE writers. They go between the projects and borrow ideas between them. Just because you have not played the entire selection of BioWARE games, and have not seen what they've offered their fans, does not mean they do not exist. But they cannot put every single one in one game. Unless they have a gigantic cast, like in Baldur's gate 1 and 2. Thane is first and foremost exotic. He is a philosophical, spiritual man and a martial artist... sure he is not a clown, but in no way or shape is he dull. If you want interesting romantic experiences in video-games, Obsidian and BioWARE games are the place to find them. Not in each and every game, but keep playing, and you will likely find a gem here and there, that will be memorable and awesome. No matter what sexuality it was written for, and by which of their staff writers. And, sometimes, they are even asexual, but leaves you with an emotional high that reminds you entirely of having a crash when you were sixteen.... I have played the entire selection of BioWare games. I have clarified several times these are the ME/DA franchises I am talking about, which clearly have much more of a focus on the characters. You seem to be not reading what I say at all. For the third time now, I did not say Thane was dull. I said ME female fans often complain about how they think their romances are dull. This is because the majority of straight guy romances in ME/DA are calm professional men (thane). A cliche.
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Post by Sole Survivor on Feb 24, 2017 19:30:22 GMT
If they wanted to call the attention of nerds they would have tried to get Emma Watson a long time ago. Who says they didn't? Maybe negotiations fell through. Has Emma Watson ever voiced a game (apart from presumably Harry Potter)? Although if you're trying to imply Emma Watson > Natalie Dormer I must respectfully ask you to step outside Oh no no, I actually don't like Emma Watson myself, but her fanbase is HUGE, men consider her pretty while women like her because she is a feminist, she being on Mass Effect Andromeda with a character modeled after her would have sold the game A LOT.
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Post by Suaimhneas on Feb 24, 2017 19:36:22 GMT
I hate how this game has been marketed so much. My hope for a good gay romance is so little that almost anything I get will have to be better then I expect at this point? Is that a bright side? Its not like they actually set the bar high with Steve anyhow, I'd view literally anything else as an improvement.
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Post by sageoflife on Feb 24, 2017 19:38:17 GMT
Are the leaks in question from a reliable source? Because if not, I suggest we all take a deep breath and wait to see what happens.
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Post by Natashina on Feb 24, 2017 19:38:17 GMT
I'm still puzzled where you're coming from though. Some women complained about Jacob or Kaidan being boring. Not all. I didn't hear many complaints about the relationships in DA:I for straight ladies being dull or boring. A few commented that Cullen was "too fairy tale," which was the same complaint I heard about Josie's romance coming from both genders. He's a calm, professional character and was very well received by fans. I enjoyed his romance, and found it refreshingly-free of serious parental issues.
I've heard a lot more comments that Bull's romance was not for everyone, but not many that called it boring. There is a total of 4 romances in the entire ME series for straight women. Kaidan, Thane, Jacob and Garrus. All of them have their fans, and the only one that seems to be hit with the "boring" label the most is Kaidan. The majority of the complaints I've read were that Kaidan wasn't a boring character, but the story arc lacked originality. I liked the romance, didn't find it boring, but I can completely agree with that sentiment.
I've seen a lot of complaints from straight guys as well regarding their LIs. Heck, fans have called the majority of the romances dull including Liara's and Anders' at one point or another. I don't think that the view that straight women have disliked these guys just because they have a calm and professional manner is a fair one to take at all.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 19:38:25 GMT
BioWARE writers are BioWARE writers. They go between the projects and borrow ideas between them. Just because you have not played the entire selection of BioWARE games, and have not seen what they've offered their fans, does not mean they do not exist. But they cannot put every single one in one game. Unless they have a gigantic cast, like in Baldur's gate 1 and 2. Thane is first and foremost exotic. He is a philosophical, spiritual man and a martial artist... sure he is not a clown, but in no way or shape is he dull. If you want interesting romantic experiences in video-games, Obsidian and BioWARE games are the place to find them. Not in each and every game, but keep playing, and you will likely find a gem here and there, that will be memorable and awesome. No matter what sexuality it was written for, and by which of their staff writers. And, sometimes, they are even asexual, but leaves you with an emotional high that reminds you entirely of having a crash when you were sixteen.... I have played the entire selection of BioWare games. I have clarified several times these are the ME/DA franchises I am talking about, which clearly have much more of a focus on the characters. You seem to be not reading what I say at all. For the third time now, I did not say Thane was dull. I said ME female fans often complain about how they think their romances are dull. This is because the majority of straight guy romances in ME/DA are calm professional men (thane). A cliche. I am yet to see a single female fan complain about the dullness of all the romances in ME:A. How's a calm, professional man a cliché anyway? They are sort of rare, tbh. If you try to enumerate all the calm professional straight male LI in BioWARE/Obsidian games vs non calm/professional you will find very few, I assure you. Most of them are seriously damaged in some way or another and require a copious amount of TLC and patience from the female protagonist. Carth, Garrus, Thane and Iresso are about all I can come up with in terms of men who have it sorted out all by themselves... And Iresso's carrier is shot. So is Garrus' pretty much for a time.
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Post by Sole Survivor on Feb 24, 2017 19:41:18 GMT
Are the leaks in question from a reliable source? Because if not, I suggest we all take a deep breath and wait to see what happens. A LOT of people took the opportunity of the few leaks we got to tell lies, they get mixed with the real information and we all end up thinking everything is true. But... the only thing we got to discuss are those rumors, and everyone here got tired of speculations.
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Post by dalinne on Feb 24, 2017 19:41:18 GMT
What if...?I know "playersexual" has been dismissed by the devs. Because the main problem with "playersexual" is the main character seems to impose him/herself upon the NPCs will. The blank state of the sexual orientation of the NPC was another aspect of that. But what if...?We have been said there won't be any "rivalry" romance system ala DA2 style. W e have been said the squadmates will have a positive or a negative opinion about you depending the choices you make and they will remember some aspects of your conversations. Also, it's been stated it's waaaay difficult to be respected and liked by all the squadmates.
So what if...?... the romances are not connected with sexual orientation but connected with the affinity between the NPC and the player? Your conversations, the choices you make in game, etc. all of that PLUS your flirting will determine the squadmates interested in you regardless of your gender. For example: So maybe you want romance Liam as JerkSara but he won't be into you because you let those people die a couple missions ago and you tend to be dismissive with him in conversations. At the same time, that Sara has more affinity with Cora and Sara could potentially romance her if she decides to flirt with her. If your Sara is a boring no homo not into girls, that option will never appeared. Another example: you play as ProfessionalScott and you want to romance Peebee, but you are too professional and boring for her, while you get along much better with Jaal because he understands you better and he appreciates your decisions, so you could pottentially romance him if you flirt with him. If you are a boring no aliens not into him, you won't flirt with him so all straight men scared of Anders hitting on them are saved. And if you play a RenegadeRyder who kills everyone, acts like an ass and wears dead parts of his/her enemies on her/him, Drack will be super onto you If this theory I just made up is true, that would explain why the devs are insisting so much about "finding out in game" and they praised themselves a lot about "romance more organic": 1) Because the LI are all open to both genders but not necesarily open to any Ryder (their actions, choices and conversations will affect that a lot) 2) To avoid the backlash "playersexual" (even if it's not estrictly "playersexual") before the game is released. I know a system similar to this was already done by Bethestha with FO4 (Piper loves you when you are sarcastic, Valentine when you help people, Hancock when you do drugs, etc.). However, I think Bioware could have implemented it. We will have more squad content on that regard and BW is far more better with characters than Bethesta. Also, Bioware could be more subtle in that regard, more "organic": we have been told a part of the menu is about in which terms you are with every member of your squad, so you will know you are in good terms or bad terms with Drack, Peebee, etc. but you won't know WHY unless they want to tell you. I know the leaks seem to point out a different reality. However, we can't forget two things: 1) If some people watch some romance scenes with one Ryder and not with the other, that doesn't necessarily mean there is not more footage with the other Ryder. 2) Maybe all the press members who had played part of the game hadn't had time to complete all romance arc with X or they didn't flirt with X characters or they don't have all the romance's arc available. This is my last hope for the romance mess effect at least. (sorry for my broken English. Too much words!!)
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Post by Artemis on Feb 24, 2017 19:41:38 GMT
It really isn't though. We have all noticed Bioware (all companies really) tend to make their BI characters the sexually promiscuous characters the BI ones, the gay characters the sassy and rebelious ones, and straight female Mass Effect fans always point out how their LIs are always boring, kind dull etc. It is very obvious Bioware kind of goes for the cliches for romances. As soon as I go news about being a "sexual deviant" I knew he was bi. They did the same sexually promiscuous thing with Zevran, and, Isabela etc. All 4 LIs in DA2 were bisexual. Anders was a romantic and a one true-love seeker. Merrill was a shy girl. Fenris was a tortured virgin with PTSD. Cytherat was an honorable man through and through. Kaidan was a neurotic/boring good guy. They weren't written as bisexual though. This is not a slight against bisexual people or an attempt at bi-erasure on my part, hear me out! The four DA2 characters (Merrill, Isabela, Fenris, Anders) were written as characters first, love interests second. The decision to make them available to both male and female Hawke meant the writers were not forced to rely (hopefully subconsciously) on cliches and tropes. When they DO create characters with defined sexualities, meaning, they create a character and decide, he will be straight, or she will be bisexual, or she will be lesbian, that's when the cliche and trope stuff comes into play. They look at Alistair and go, hmm. He's friendly, sweet, innocent, a knight in shining armor. STRAIGHT! Zevran? Let me see... he's flirty, suave, has had many sexual partners... YEP LOOKS LIKE A BISEXUAL TO ME! So that's why I often don't include the DA2 characters when tallying up the list of stereotyped DA love interests.
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Post by Artemis on Feb 24, 2017 19:43:49 GMT
Shit, I'll take either at this point. I am sorry that you feel that way. I regret that I learned too late not to "settle" for what's allocated for my RL sexual preferences. Those romances are love-stories first and foremost and I will make a protagonist to experience the one that appeals to my heart and my mind. I am fully equipped to be digitally trans-gender-sexual. Not everyone is though. (And I'm not sure that's an entirely appropriate use of the term "transgender"...)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 19:44:31 GMT
Are the leaks in question from a reliable source? Because if not, I suggest we all take a deep breath and wait to see what happens. No leaks are a reliable source. I think everyone here has been smart enough to ignore several posters supposed "leaks." What is worrying m/m fans is that every other orientation has at least one confirmed squad mate at this point, but we still have no idea if we get a squad romance. We don't want to be stuck with m/m NPCs only. We're not worried about having zero. We just want at least one squad mate.
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Post by Mintty on Feb 24, 2017 19:48:28 GMT
All 4 LIs in DA2 were bisexual. Anders was a romantic and a one true-love seeker. Merrill was a shy girl. Fenris was a tortured virgin with PTSD. Cytherat was an honorable man through and through. Kaidan was a neurotic/boring good guy. They weren't written as bisexual though. This is not a slight against bisexual people or an attempt at bi-erasure on my part, hear me out! The four DA2 characters (Merrill, Isabela, Fenris, Anders) were written as characters first, love interests second. The decision to make them available to both male and female Hawke meant the writers were not forced to rely (hopefully subconsciously) on cliches and tropes. When they DO create characters with defined sexualities, meaning, they create a character and decide, he will be straight, or she will be bisexual, or she will be lesbian, that's when the cliche and trope stuff comes into play. They look at Alistair and go, hmm. He's friendly, sweet, innocent, a knight in shining armor. STRAIGHT! Zevran? Let me see... he's flirty, suave, has had many sexual partners... YEP LOOKS LIKE A BISEXUAL TO ME! So that's why I often don't include the DA2 characters when tallying up the list of stereotyped DA love interests. Absolutely agree but! Isabela is canonically, from DA:O, bisexual (if not pan).
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 19:49:26 GMT
All 4 LIs in DA2 were bisexual. Anders was a romantic and a one true-love seeker. Merrill was a shy girl. Fenris was a tortured virgin with PTSD. Cytherat was an honorable man through and through. Kaidan was a neurotic/boring good guy. They weren't written as bisexual though. This is not a slight against bisexual people or an attempt at bi-erasure on my part, hear me out! The four DA2 characters (Merrill, Isabela, Fenris, Anders) were written as characters first, love interests second. The decision to make them available to both male and female Hawke meant the writers were not forced to rely (hopefully subconsciously) on cliches and tropes. When they DO create characters with defined sexualities, meaning, they create a character and decide, he will be straight, or she will be bisexual, or she will be lesbian, that's when the cliche and trope stuff comes into play. They look at Alistair and go, hmm. He's friendly, sweet, innocent, a knight in shining armor. STRAIGHT! Zevran? Let me see... he's flirty, suave, has had many sexual partners... YEP LOOKS LIKE A BISEXUAL TO ME! So that's why I often don't include the DA2 characters when tallying up the list of stereotyped DA love interests. You are cherry-picking in this one. But if you need to, and if it helps you, it does feel necessary sometimes. I also complained a lot in the past about only broken men being available for straight female PCs, until the number of games grew and grew... Cheers, folks. I do hope to experience a grand lovestory in ME:A :)
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Sole Survivor
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
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solesurvivor
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Sole Survivor on Feb 24, 2017 19:51:08 GMT
What if...? I know "playersexual" has been dismissed by the devs. Because the main problem with "playersexual" is the main character seems to impose him/herself upon the NPCs will. The blank state of the sexual orientation of the NPC was another aspect of that. But what if...?We have been said there won't be any "rivalry" romance system ala DA2 style. W e have been said the squadmates will have a positive or a negative opinion about you depending the choices you make and they will remember some aspects of your conversations. Also, it's been stated it's waaaay difficult to be respected and liked by all the squadmates.
So what if...?... the romances are not connected with sexual orientation but connected with the affinity between the NPC and the player? Your conversations, the choices you make in game, etc. all of that PLUS your flirting will determine the squadmates interested in you regardless of your gender. For example: So maybe you want romance Liam as JerkSara but he won't be into you because you let those people die a couple missions ago and you tend to be dismissive with him in conversations. At the same time, that Sara has more affinity with Cora and Sara could potentially romance her if she decides to flirt with her. If she is a boring no homo not into girls, that option will never appeared. Another example: you play as ProfessionalScott and you want to romance Peebee, but you are too professional and boring for her, while you get along much better with Jaal because he understands you better and he appreciates your decisions, so you could pottentially romance him if you flirt with him. If you are a boring no aliens not into him, you won't flirt with him so all straight men scared of Anders hitting on them are saved. And if you play a RenegadeRyder who kills everyone, acts like an ass and wears dead parts of his/her enemies on her/him, Drack will be super onto you If this theory I just made up is true, that would explain why the devs are insisting so much about "finding out in game" and they praised themselves a lot about "romance more organic": 1) Because the LI are all open to both genders but not necesarily open to any Ryder (their actions, choices and conversations will affect that a lot) 2) To avoid the backlash "playersexual" (even if it's not estrictly "playersexual") before the game is released. I know a system similar to this was already done by Bethestha with FO4 (Piper loves you when you are sarcastic, Valentine when you help people, Hancock when you do drugs, etc.). However, I think Bioware could have implemented it. We will have more squad content on that regard and BW is far more better with characters than Bethesta. Also, Bioware could be more subtle in that regard, more "organic": we have been told a part of the menu is about in which terms you are with every member of your squad, so you will know you are in good terms or bad terms with Drack, Peebee, etc. but you won't know WHY unless they want to tell you. I know the leaks seem to point out a different reality. However, we can't forget two things: 1) If some people watch some romance scenes with one Ryder and not with the other, that doesn't necessarily mean there is not more footage with the other Ryder. 2) Maybe all the press members who had played part of the game hadn't had time to complete all romance arc with X or they didn't flirt with X characters or they don't have all the romance's arc available. This is my last hope for the romance mess effect at least. (sorry for my broken English. Too much words!!) I would really love if romances were like that. But remember that this is Bioware fandom we are talking about, a fandom that says things like "Sexuality defines the character, it gives them personality", is sad that you go to tumblr and you see everyone treating Dorian as the "gay friend you take to watch how Cullen trains his men without his shirt". So making everyone bisexual, even though it would make everyone happy because is way better saying "My LI loves my character because of how s/he is instead of because of his genitalia", people like for some reason having limits, rules and be forbidden of some things because of your sex.
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witchcocktor
Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by witchcocktor on Feb 24, 2017 19:51:14 GMT
I think I have reached acceptance now. Gil better be a sex god though.
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