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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 19:51:50 GMT
I am sorry that you feel that way. I regret that I learned too late not to "settle" for what's allocated for my RL sexual preferences. Those romances are love-stories first and foremost and I will make a protagonist to experience the one that appeals to my heart and my mind. I am fully equipped to be digitally trans-gender-sexual. Not everyone is though. (And I'm not sure that's an entirely appropriate use of the term "transgender"...) Ah, I define digitally transgender as someone who will play both genders and may enjoy/willing to try romances expressing every form of sexuality.
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Post by sageoflife on Feb 24, 2017 19:52:55 GMT
Are the leaks in question from a reliable source? Because if not, I suggest we all take a deep breath and wait to see what happens. No leaks are a reliable source. I think everyone here has been smart enough to ignore several posters supposed "leaks." What is worrying m/m fans is that every other orientation has at least one confirmed squad mate at this point, but we still have no idea if we get a squad romance. We don't want to be stuck with m/m NPCs only. We're not worried about having zero. We just want at least one squad mate. I know, I'm part of that segment of the fanbase so I have the exact same concerns. I'm just taking the same tact I did with the ME3 ending leak and waiting until the game actually releases before I get angry.
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Post by Sole Survivor on Feb 24, 2017 19:54:41 GMT
I think I have reached acceptance now. Gil better be a sex god though. A redhead sex god, indeed
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Post by Artemis on Feb 24, 2017 19:54:58 GMT
They weren't written as bisexual though. This is not a slight against bisexual people or an attempt at bi-erasure on my part, hear me out! The four DA2 characters (Merrill, Isabela, Fenris, Anders) were written as characters first, love interests second. The decision to make them available to both male and female Hawke meant the writers were not forced to rely (hopefully subconsciously) on cliches and tropes. When they DO create characters with defined sexualities, meaning, they create a character and decide, he will be straight, or she will be bisexual, or she will be lesbian, that's when the cliche and trope stuff comes into play. They look at Alistair and go, hmm. He's friendly, sweet, innocent, a knight in shining armor. STRAIGHT! Zevran? Let me see... he's flirty, suave, has had many sexual partners... YEP LOOKS LIKE A BISEXUAL TO ME! So that's why I often don't include the DA2 characters when tallying up the list of stereotyped DA love interests. Absolutely agree but! Isabela is canonically, from DA:O, bisexual (if not pan).And, of course, fits the trope of "bisexuals love to sleep around with anything that moves!" perfectly. (I say this as a massive Bela fan)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 19:58:15 GMT
All 4 LIs in DA2 were bisexual. Anders was a romantic and a one true-love seeker. Merrill was a shy girl. Fenris was a tortured virgin with PTSD. Cytherat was an honorable man through and through. Kaidan was a neurotic/boring good guy. They weren't written as bisexual though. This is not a slight against bisexual people or an attempt at bi-erasure on my part, hear me out! The four DA2 characters (Merrill, Isabela, Fenris, Anders) were written as characters first, love interests second. The decision to make them available to both male and female Hawke meant the writers were not forced to rely (hopefully subconsciously) on cliches and tropes. When they DO create characters with defined sexualities, meaning, they create a character and decide, he will be straight, or she will be bisexual, or she will be lesbian, that's when the cliche and trope stuff comes into play. They look at Alistair and go, hmm. He's friendly, sweet, innocent, a knight in shining armor. STRAIGHT! Zevran? Let me see... he's flirty, suave, has had many sexual partners... YEP LOOKS LIKE A BISEXUAL TO ME! So that's why I often don't include the DA2 characters when tallying up the list of stereotyped DA love interests. Yeah, trying to use DA2 as as a reference for varied bisexual characters is VERY disingenuous. They meant to make everyone "playersexual." Non- DA2 Dragon age bi characters: Zevran, Leliana, Ib, Josephine. 3/4 that were meant to be sexually devious. Gay DA characters: Dorian, Sera. Meant to be flamboyant, rebellious, loud etc. Straight male ME/DA characters. Alistair: The cute friendly funny knight in shining armor. Solas, Cullen, Jacob, Thane, Blackwall, Kaidan, Garrus. The calm, cool, and conducted professional men. Bonus: Jacob, the black guy with father issues who cheats on you and knocks up another woman (come on Bioware). There are some blatant cliches and tropes here.
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Post by dalinne on Feb 24, 2017 19:58:23 GMT
What if...? I know "playersexual" has been dismissed by the devs. Because the main problem with "playersexual" is the main character seems to impose him/herself upon the NPCs will. The blank state of the sexual orientation of the NPC was another aspect of that. But what if...?We have been said there won't be any "rivalry" romance system ala DA2 style. W e have been said the squadmates will have a positive or a negative opinion about you depending the choices you make and they will remember some aspects of your conversations. Also, it's been stated it's waaaay difficult to be respected and liked by all the squadmates.
So what if...?... the romances are not connected with sexual orientation but connected with the affinity between the NPC and the player? Your conversations, the choices you make in game, etc. all of that PLUS your flirting will determine the squadmates interested in you regardless of your gender. For example: So maybe you want romance Liam as JerkSara but he won't be into you because you let those people die a couple missions ago and you tend to be dismissive with him in conversations. At the same time, that Sara has more affinity with Cora and Sara could potentially romance her if she decides to flirt with her. If she is a boring no homo not into girls, that option will never appeared. Another example: you play as ProfessionalScott and you want to romance Peebee, but you are too professional and boring for her, while you get along much better with Jaal because he understands you better and he appreciates your decisions, so you could pottentially romance him if you flirt with him. If you are a boring no aliens not into him, you won't flirt with him so all straight men scared of Anders hitting on them are saved. And if you play a RenegadeRyder who kills everyone, acts like an ass and wears dead parts of his/her enemies on her/him, Drack will be super onto you If this theory I just made up is true, that would explain why the devs are insisting so much about "finding out in game" and they praised themselves a lot about "romance more organic": 1) Because the LI are all open to both genders but not necesarily open to any Ryder (their actions, choices and conversations will affect that a lot) 2) To avoid the backlash "playersexual" (even if it's not estrictly "playersexual") before the game is released. I know a system similar to this was already done by Bethestha with FO4 (Piper loves you when you are sarcastic, Valentine when you help people, Hancock when you do drugs, etc.). However, I think Bioware could have implemented it. We will have more squad content on that regard and BW is far more better with characters than Bethesta. Also, Bioware could be more subtle in that regard, more "organic": we have been told a part of the menu is about in which terms you are with every member of your squad, so you will know you are in good terms or bad terms with Drack, Peebee, etc. but you won't know WHY unless they want to tell you. I know the leaks seem to point out a different reality. However, we can't forget two things: 1) If some people watch some romance scenes with one Ryder and not with the other, that doesn't necessarily mean there is not more footage with the other Ryder. 2) Maybe all the press members who had played part of the game hadn't had time to complete all romance arc with X or they didn't flirt with X characters or they don't have all the romance's arc available. This is my last hope for the romance mess effect at least. (sorry for my broken English. Too much words!!) I would really love if romances were like that. But remember that this is Bioware fandom we are talking about, a fandom that says things like "Sexuality defines the character, it gives them personality", is sad that you go to tumblr and you see everyone treating Dorian as the "gay friend you take to watch how Cullen trains his men without his shirt". So making everyone bisexual, even though it would make everyone happy because is way better saying "My LI loves my character because of how s/he is instead of because of his genitalia", people like for some reason having limits, rules and be forbidden of some things because of your sex. Of course there are people like those you speak in the fandom (in any fandom), but I'm more worried about the Devs saying sexual orientation has to have sense with the character (that is not the exact quotation and luckily they could have been talking about that personality/affinity factor, who knows!).
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Post by Mintty on Feb 24, 2017 19:59:09 GMT
Absolutely agree but! Isabela is canonically, from DA:O, bisexual (if not pan).And, of course, fits the trope of "bisexuals love to sleep around with anything that moves!" perfectly. (I say this as a massive Bela fan) Oh yeah she definitely fits the trope but she was written bisexual. Some people do fit their sexuality's stereotype though and that's not a bad thing, it's when all people of that sexuality are a walking stereotype, that's when it's a problem.
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Post by Natashina on Feb 24, 2017 20:02:18 GMT
I'll probably never do the Josie romance, since she's not my type romantically. However, I appreciated seeing it there. She didn't bang anything that moved. For that matter, I appreciated Liara's romance the same way. While both characters were bisexual, neither of them just slept around.
Now, if they could do that for a male bisexual romance, that would be a very welcome change. As much as bisexual women tend to be given the stereotype of being extremely free with their love, bisexual guys have it as bad in their own right. They are either written as horndogs or in some stories (outside of BioWare,) are "actually gay/straight looking for the right one." Or like Zevran, who talked about being bisexual yet wouldn't stop talking about women.
Plus, it would be nice to see a bisexual man that enjoys sex (even if they don't have a sex scene) without the need to be as...er...forthcoming as Iron Bull was. I'm actually a huge fan of Bull, but I'd like to see a male bisexual LI that's a little more reserved with their appetite for sex. Oh and not going completely mad like Anders had been throughout DA2.
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Post by Dirk on Feb 24, 2017 20:04:26 GMT
I would really love if romances were like that. But remember that this is Bioware fandom we are talking about, a fandom that says things like "Sexuality defines the character, it gives them personality", is sad that you go to tumblr and you see everyone treating Dorian as the "gay friend you take to watch how Cullen trains his men without his shirt". So making everyone bisexual, even though it would make everyone happy because is way better saying "My LI loves my character because of how s/he is instead of because of his genitalia", people like for some reason having limits, rules and be forbidden of some things because of your sex. Of course there are people like those you speak in the fandom (in any fandom), but I'm more worried about the Devs saying sexual orientation has to has sense with the character (that is not the exact quotation and luckily they could have been talking about that personality/affinity factor, who knows!). Hopefully not opening up the old wound. The quote was from Game Informer article: This does raise some red flags for me. But again, the whole sentences are quite loaded. They can mean a lot of things.
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Post by dalinne on Feb 24, 2017 20:05:44 GMT
Of course there are people like those you speak in the fandom (in any fandom), but I'm more worried about the Devs saying sexual orientation has to has sense with the character (that is not the exact quotation and luckily they could have been talking about that personality/affinity factor, who knows!). Hopefully not opening up the old wound. The quote was from Game Informer article: This does raise some red flags for me. But again, the whole sentences are quite loaded. They can mean a lot of things. Nahhh Forget anything I said, WE ARE DOOMED!!!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 20:06:55 GMT
No leaks are a reliable source. I think everyone here has been smart enough to ignore several posters supposed "leaks." What is worrying m/m fans is that every other orientation has at least one confirmed squad mate at this point, but we still have no idea if we get a squad romance. We don't want to be stuck with m/m NPCs only. We're not worried about having zero. We just want at least one squad mate. I know, I'm part of that segment of the fanbase so I have the exact same concerns. I'm just taking the same tact I did with the ME3 ending leak and waiting until the game actually releases before I get angry. Yeah but I'm sure you can see that it's a bit annoying from our point of view for them to say "Wait until you buy the game, m/m fans." while literally every other orientation knows they get a squad mate romance now. Why would they make m/m fans the only ones who have to wait? That is what concerns/annoys people. If you're gonna say everyone wait for the game to see, actually mean everyone.
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 24, 2017 20:07:26 GMT
The GI quote means there won't be the same number of options (which were actually never present in Bioware games), not necessarily about not having a gay/bi male squadmate.
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Post by Sole Survivor on Feb 24, 2017 20:08:51 GMT
Of course there are people like those you speak in the fandom (in any fandom), but I'm more worried about the Devs saying sexual orientation has to has sense with the character (that is not the exact quotation and luckily they could have been talking about that personality/affinity factor, who knows!). Hopefully not opening up the old wound. The quote was from Game Informer article: This does raise some red flags for me. But again, the whole sentences are quite loaded. They can mean a lot of things. As long as there isn't any personal quest just for the character to tell you "I prefer the company of men and my daddy doesn't approve it, help me", while other characters personal quests were "Recover the book to restore the seekers" or "A noble has been killing innocent people, stop him" I'm fine. Also it would be great if the lesbian character doesn't join at your cabin to tell you how much she likes women.
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Post by lurkinganon on Feb 24, 2017 20:16:38 GMT
I just...
I don't want boring humans to be my only m/m options while Sara can romance the incredibly handsome Angara and female ryders can romance a tall female turian, I mean come on.
Give me an asexual but sweet and m/m compatible romance with Kallo Jath, Have Jaal swing both ways being curious about both genders, Or How bout a Turian Guy we can date on the Nexus, Or hell I know lots of guys who'd be down for a casual fling with Drack.
But don't saddle me with some Human Crewmember I don't care about (Like ya did with Cortez), a rando human npc, or a human squadmate I also don't care about in that way (like Kaiden) the hot Aliens are what I want not lame humans.
I realize that it's all speculation for now but if that's final, that's complete garbage.
People may be sick of hearing about this issue but I felt so strongly about the issue I had to make a BSN account and post my thoughts.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 20:18:50 GMT
Except they are not.
Alistair is roguish, boyish and charming with deep-seated "I am a bastard" issues. He is extremely unprofessional. If he were, he'd be leading as a senior warden, not let a gal just admitted to the order do the ordering around. He sinks into a deep depression after Dunkan's death. He dumps a non-human female on assuming the throne, because he is so insecure. Nothing literally stops him from a passionate unlawful revenge kill. If I had to describe him in one word, it would be "insecure".
Have no idea about Cullen, and Blackwall, but from what I read, Solas is a walking time-bomb of some sort, so he is unnaturally unemotional (if he is, I have not played it yet). Is not Blackwall some sort of a renegade who betrayed people also?
Jacob is trying to be cool & professional, but he is not. He also commits a patricide in front of you, not exactly an act of a rational man. he makes a mess from his personal life, jumping from Miranda, to the PC, to Brianne in space of two years. Certainly not one woman's man. How many Isabela's lovers do you get to meet and greet? Shepard meets two of Jacob's lovers...
Garrus is a vagabond to start with, a guy who can't even hold his job because he can't conform to the rules, cannot stand the red tape, etc. Yes, he has a wonderfully soothing voice, but you find him in a shoot-out with all the gangs on Omega, sheepishly confessing that he has... miscalculated when he hit a beehive with a stick. He is as rebellious as any rogue that took to smuggling. he is also willing to share a story or two from his colorful past about his ex (he was not engaged to, just had kinky sex).
Thane is a spiritual child-assassin who used children to gather intel for him in the past, left his family because he was simply unsuited for a quiet domestic bliss... and would do anything to keep his son from taking up the same career. If he was a calm, proud professional, he'd be still happily married and training his son to inherit the métier...
You, guys, are trying to find clichés where there is none...
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Post by SofaJockey on Feb 24, 2017 20:20:01 GMT
Are the leaks in question from a reliable source? Because if not, I suggest we all take a deep breath and wait to see what happens. This would be my suggestion too. Things are a little tense because folk have their hopes pinned on things they don't know. The Prima guide and EA Access players will expose the options fairly immediately. We'll know in just under 3 weeks. Hang in there, people...
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Post by BioFan on Feb 24, 2017 20:20:02 GMT
Liam is missing from your chart. Also Suvi was "at least flirted with" (and responded positively) too. BioFan Where's the Suvi confirmation?
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Post by dalinne on Feb 24, 2017 20:21:56 GMT
The GI quote means there won't be the same number of options (which were actually never present in Bioware games), not necessarily about not having a gay/bi male squadmate. I think the annoying part is, at this moment: 1) Seems like 3/3 of female squadmates are romanceable, one (or two) straight, one (or two) bisexuals 2) Seems like 2/3 of male squadmates are romanceable, both of them straight? So if we go and read those words it's like... it seems be a bisexual woman (or even two women) is seen as "having more sense" than a bisexual man to put it "straight" (Bad pun I know)
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Post by Natashina on Feb 24, 2017 20:23:09 GMT
I just want to vote for no more daddy/mommy issues for any squadmate. That dead horse, regardless of LI status, has been pulverized now. There is so many of them too, for all orientations. There are plenty of ways of doing drama and backstory for a LI without that one being used as much.
The dead spouse/girlfriend is up there (Thane, Carth, Jaheria, Cortez, Zevran) but I'm very tired of the parental issues as well.
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Post by Mintty on Feb 24, 2017 20:23:44 GMT
Also Suvi was "at least flirted with" (and responded positively) too. BioFan Where's the Suvi confirmation? "...I’m told there will be “more shades of grey” in the romance. But after a couple of flirty lines to Suvi, the Scottish pilot of the Tempest, she was already whispering “I like you back” under her breath..." Source
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 24, 2017 20:24:21 GMT
The GI quote means there won't be the same number of options (which were actually never present in Bioware games), not necessarily about not having a gay/bi male squadmate. I think the annoying part is, at this moment: 1) Seems like 3/3 of female squadmates are romanceable, one (or two) straight, one (or two) bisexuals 2) Seems like 2/3 of male squadmates are romanceable, both of them straight? So if we go and read those words it's like... it seems be a bisexual woman (or even two women) is seen as "having more sense" than a bisexual man to put it "straight" (Bad pun I know)
Oh, I'm not saying it's not annoying, just that it's not a confirmation or hint for a lack of male romances in the squad for Scott.
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Post by sageoflife on Feb 24, 2017 20:24:30 GMT
Are the leaks in question from a reliable source? Because if not, I suggest we all take a deep breath and wait to see what happens. This would be my suggestion too. Things are a little tense because folk have their hopes pinned on things they don't know. The Prima guide and EA Access players will expose the options fairly immediately. We'll know in just under 3 weeks. Hang in there, people... Frankly, I wouldn't totally trust the Prima guide either. I took a look at the ME3 guide because I saw it in the store, and they had Kaidan's availability listed incorrectly.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 20:25:23 GMT
I just want to vote for no more daddy/mommy issues for any squadmate. That dead horse, regardless of LI status, has been pulverized now. There is so many of them too, for all orientations. There are plenty of ways of doing drama and backstory for a LI without that one being used as much. The dead spouse/girlfriend is up there (Thane, Carth, Jaheria, Cortez, Zevran) but I'm very tired of the parental issues as well. That I can agree with. We need a new source of drama and unrest.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 20:26:55 GMT
Happy 100 pages romance thread! ...kind of
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 20:27:54 GMT
Except they are not. Alistair is roguish, boyish and charming with deep-seated "I am a bastard" issues. He is extremely unprofessional. If he were, he'd be leading as a senior warden, not let a gal just admitted to the order do the ordering around. He sinks into a deep depression after Dunkan's death. He dumps a non-human female on assuming the throne, because he is so insecure. Nothing literally stops him from a passionate unlawful revenge kill. Have no idea about Cullen, and Blackwall, but from what I read, Solas is a walking time-bomb of some sort, so he is unnaturally unemotional (if he is, I have not played it yet). Is not Blackwall some sort of a renegade who betrayed people also? Jacob is trying to be cool & professional, but he is not. He also commits a patricide in front of you, not exactly an act of a rational man. he makes a mess from his personal life, jumping from Miranda, to the PC, to Brianne in space of two years. Certainly not one woman's man. Garrus is a vagabond to start with, a guy who can't even hold his job because he can't conform to the rules, cannot stand the red tape, etc. Yes, he has a wonderfully soothing voice, but you find him in a shoot-out with all the gangs on Omega. He is as rebellious as any rogue that took to smuggling. he is also willing to share a story or two from his colorful past about his ex (he was not engaged to, just had kinky sex). Thane is a spiritual child-assassin who used children to gather intel for him in the past, left his family because he was simply unsuited for a quiet domestic bliss... and would do anything to keep his son from taking up the same career. If he was a calm, proud professional, he'd be still happily married and training his son to inherit the métier... You, guys, are trying to find clichés where there is none... You're using specific actions and situations in the game you show diversity, but we're just talking about personality. Yes, they are their own individual characters with unique backgrounds and experiences, but what unites them all is that calm cool professional personality typical of a straight guy romances. Or that sexual deviance of a bi character. Or that rowdy rebellious personality of gay characters.
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