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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Dirk on Feb 25, 2017 11:40:20 GMT
I have been leaning towards diversity of sexualities of LIs myself, but if that means that there isn't diversity, but rather lot of unfairness and inequality with options there isn't really point. DAI at least promised to have at least 2 option for everyone and delivered so I wasn't really against it there, I liked that Dorian was gay, Sera lesbian, Bull pansexual etc. But diversity to me doesn't mean that most are straight and then there is one or two bisexual LIs so if that happens with ME:A what is the point. And I guess if there was 4 bisexual LIs in the squad, but straight or gay LIs on crew members or outside of ship, both could be achieved. Core romances being open for both would likely be fairest option. Since for some reason it just seems that Bioware can't make it fair otherwise. They just seem unable to do 2/2/2 or some other fair division. 2/2/2 would be the fairest. But then straight dudes would have equal options to others (of course except bi players), and Bioware could not let that happen, couldn't they?
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Post by warbaby2 on Feb 25, 2017 11:51:44 GMT
I have been leaning towards diversity of sexualities of LIs myself, but if that means that there isn't diversity, but rather lot of unfairness and inequality with options there isn't really point. DAI at least promised to have at least 2 option for everyone and delivered so I wasn't really against it there, I liked that Dorian was gay, Sera lesbian, Bull pansexual etc. But diversity to me doesn't mean that most are straight and then there is one or two bisexual LIs so if that happens with ME:A what is the point. And I guess if there was 4 bisexual LIs in the squad, but straight or gay LIs on crew members or outside of ship, both could be achieved. Core romances being open for both would likely be fairest option. Since for some reason it just seems that Bioware can't make it fair otherwise. They just seem unable to do 2/2/2 or some other fair division. 2/2/2 would be the fairest. But then straight dudes would have equal options to others (of course except bi players), and Bioware could not let that happen, couldn't they? As I already said, I doubt it's "malice" or anything on the part of BW (or any other main stream company, for that matter)... it's just business. Everything considered, ME is still a multi-million-dollar mass market title.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights
Origin: EJ107
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Post by Ianamus on Feb 25, 2017 12:08:00 GMT
2/2/2 would be the fairest. But then straight dudes would have equal options to others (of course except bi players), and Bioware could not let that happen, couldn't they? As I already said, I doubt it's "malice" or anything on the part of BW (or any other main stream company, for that matter)... it's just business. Everything considered, ME is still a multi-million-dollar mass market title. Even Mass effect 3, the most corporate, mass marketed and milked of all recent Bioware titles, had àt least one gay/bi male squadmate. Between that and Inquisitions financial success, why would they think making the options so skewed was necessary for 'good buisness'?
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The Elder King
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 25, 2017 12:09:40 GMT
I have been leaning towards diversity of sexualities of LIs myself, but if that means that there isn't diversity, but rather lot of unfairness and inequality with options there isn't really point. DAI at least promised to have at least 2 option for everyone and delivered so I wasn't really against it there, I liked that Dorian was gay, Sera lesbian, Bull pansexual etc. But diversity to me doesn't mean that most are straight and then there is one or two bisexual LIs so if that happens with ME:A what is the point. And I guess if there was 4 bisexual LIs in the squad, but straight or gay LIs on crew members or outside of ship, both could be achieved. Core romances being open for both would likely be fairest option. Since for some reason it just seems that Bioware can't make it fair otherwise. They just seem unable to do 2/2/2 or some other fair division. 2/2/2 would be the fairest. But then straight dudes would have equal options to others (of course except bi players), and Bioware could not let that happen, couldn't they? I can understand if you'd use the term 'ME team', but Bioware as a whole proven they don't care much about that. DA2 and DAI shown that they don't have problems making game where they're not the ones with more options, and equal to most of the other orientations (since in both straight females have more options). Bioware in general, howewer, also shown in DAI that they don't want to make everyone having the same number of options, but just more then one option. When they received additional time, they didn't make one male and one female LI, but two male ones. Their intention was never to have everyone with the same number of options. Even DA2 was due a compromise of having multiple options for everyone and the time and budget restraint they have. Same goes for the original DAI plan.
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Post by warbaby2 on Feb 25, 2017 12:21:27 GMT
As I already said, I doubt it's "malice" or anything on the part of BW (or any other main stream company, for that matter)... it's just business. Everything considered, ME is still a multi-million-dollar mass market title. Even Mass effect 3, the most corporate, mass marketed and milked of all recent Bioware titles, had àt least one gay/bi male squadmate. Between that and Inquisitions financial success, why would making the options so skewed was necessary for 'good buisness'? That I don't know... there are many factors in game design, from market analysis to focus group testing, down to what your publisher wants, and - apparently - something told BW that going more "mainstream" for this title was the right decision. Dunno, blame EA, maybe? Also: They said that they are attempting to make romances a more natural part of the story and less formulaic, and - let's face it - even their non straight relationship options have become quite cookie cutter... I honestly can't say. Still, I doubt it's some kind of discrimination or persecution at play there.
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Ianamus
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights
Origin: EJ107
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Post by Ianamus on Feb 25, 2017 12:28:08 GMT
Even Mass effect 3, the most corporate, mass marketed and milked of all recent Bioware titles, had at least one gay/bi male squadmate. Between that and Inquisitions financial success, why would making the options so skewed was necessary for 'good buisness'? That I don't know... there are many factors in game design, from market analysis to focus group testing, down to what your publisher wants, and - apparently - something told BW that going more "mainstream" for this title was the right decision. Dunno, blame EA, maybe? Also: They said that they are attempting to make romances a more natural part of the story and less formulaic, and - let's face it - even their non straight relationship options have become quite cookie cutter... I honestly can't say. Still, I doubt it's some kind of discrimination or persecution at play there. I don't think it's a case of them being discriminatory or homophobic, but removing all gay/bi male companions to be "more mainsream" while still having two female ones... Whatever their reasons, is that really any better, when the end result is the same? If it was a case of going back to when the f/f and even f/m options were also lacking I'd understand more, but it's only the m/m content that's been treated this way- and it's impossible not to draw unfortunate conclusions from that.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire
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zaefkol
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire
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Post by zaefkol on Feb 25, 2017 12:32:10 GMT
Even Mass effect 3, the most corporate, mass marketed and milked of all recent Bioware titles, had àt least one gay/bi male squadmate. Between that and Inquisitions financial success, why would making the options so skewed was necessary for 'good buisness'? That I don't know... there are many factors in game design, from market analysis to focus group testing, down to what your publisher wants, and - apparently - something told BW that going more "mainstream" for this title was the right decision. Dunno, blame EA, maybe? Also: They said that they are attempting to make romances a more natural part of the story and less formulaic, and - let's face it - even their non straight relationship options have become quite cookie cutter... I honestly can't say. Still, I doubt it's some kind of discrimination or persecution at play there. Putting aside the issue of m/m romances for a moment--because thinking about it too much more will probably make me an annoying mix of anxious, depressed, and a tiny bit weirdly excited due to my current state of sleep deprivation--the bolded part is one of the things I'm looking forward to in this game.
I hope it all comes out the way the devs have implied.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2017 13:01:37 GMT
We won't stop until you can't move for the gay. The player character will be default gay, the pilot will be gay, all the enemies will be gay, the nomad will be gay, the ship will be gay, your guns will be gay, the planets will be gay. Gay as far as the eye can see. [/spoilert] We should not forget our Bi brethren too. And then there is us... Straight people. jeremyvarner.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/normal-people.jpg
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In lurking mode, playing the ME games.
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Post by Natashina on Feb 25, 2017 13:15:56 GMT
Funny, all I see are people. Some could be straight, some could be LGBT+. I see a group of happy looking people smiling for a camera. I don't see how that is supposed to represent just heterosexuals. I'm bisexual, but you couldn't tell just from looking a photo of me.
Edit a bit later: The guy above me was just making a joke and my e-tone reading of it was wrong.
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Post by Crim on Feb 25, 2017 13:24:55 GMT
Funny, all I see are people. Some could be straight, some could be LGBT+. I see a group of happy looking people smiling for a camera. I don't see how that is supposed to represent just heterosexuals. I'm bisexual, but you couldn't tell just from looking a photo of me.
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Feb 25, 2017 13:25:31 GMT
Funny, all I see are people. Some could be straight, some could be LGBT+. I see is a group of happy looking people smiling for a camera. I don't see how that is supposed to represent just heterosexuals. I'm bisexual, but you couldn't tell just from looking a photo of me. That's why I don't understand the argument that you can tell a LGBT person just from looking at them. Yes, there are certain ways LGBT people present that intentionally or subconsciously signal "I'm like you" to other LGBT people: that's just a part of LGBT history in general (after all, how else did the small circles of publicly closeted LGBT folk meet eachother for several decades before any level of mainstream acceptance?). However, sometimes people think that it should be immediately obvious that someone is gay or something. The thing is, any guy you see on the street could potentially be gay, bi, etc. People who don't know me well are surprised when they find out I'm gay since I'm very feminine in presentation and have a high-pitched voice, but people who knew me for years figured out I was into women long before I even did and long before I could ever accept it. Sometimes, people have this assumption that there's "LGBT people" and then there's "normal people," and, frankly, those have probably never met an openly LGBT person in their life.
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Post by hammerstorm on Feb 25, 2017 13:30:42 GMT
Funny, all I see are people. Some could be straight, some could be LGBT+. I see a group of happy looking people smiling for a camera. I don't see how that is supposed to represent just heterosexuals. I'm bisexual, but you couldn't tell just from looking a photo of me. I will go out on a limb and guess that it was a joke response to the people that wanted the future games to be "more gay/bi" and their pictures/gifs. I seriously doubt that he was saying that you could see who is straight and not. For me it is easy. People are people, they all live and die. Nothing special.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2017 13:32:14 GMT
Funny, all I see are people. Some could be straight, some could be LGBT+. I see a group of happy looking people smiling for a camera. I don't see how that is supposed to represent just heterosexuals. I'm bisexual, but you couldn't tell just from looking a photo of me. I will go out on a limb and guess that it was a joke response to the people that wanted the future games to be "more gay/bi" and their pictures/gifs. I seriously doubt that he was saying that you could see who is straight and not. For me it is easy. People are people, they all live and die. Nothing special. media.giphy.com/media/1Z02vuppxP1Pa/giphy.gif10 points to Gryffindor
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wright1978
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Prime Posts: 8,116
Prime Likes: 2073
Posts: 1,679 Likes: 2,555
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Post by wright1978 on Feb 25, 2017 13:33:38 GMT
2/2/2 would be the fairest. But then straight dudes would have equal options to others (of course except bi players), and Bioware could not let that happen, couldn't they? Well i have no clue as to what final options will be in MEA but given in DAI it was hetrosexual women who got more options whilst straight dudes and lesbians got only one squadmate romance apiece it's clear at least certain parts of Bioware certainly could let that happen.
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In lurking mode, playing the ME games.
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Post by Natashina on Feb 25, 2017 13:37:55 GMT
hammerstorm <shrug> That's possible too and you have a good point. I've seen that used in seriousness before, so I err on the side of caution.When it comes to games, I'm open to a lot of ideas about LGBT+ stories. I would like to see some more positive ones though. Especially for gay/bi men that enjoy m/m romances. Less, "Thanks for bringing me the ring of my dead spouse" and more, "Come help me get the sereal killer that got away" type stories. I'm good on things like Bull's PTSD, another case of Carth Syndrome, Assassins trained to be bi and prefer women, and yet more freaking parent issues for m/m stories. Only Kaidan's is free from an unnecessary level of angst. @lisupoland My apologizes for taking your post as a serious comment. My ability to read e-tone is lacking tonight.
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Post by Ocelot on Feb 25, 2017 13:39:28 GMT
2/2/2 would be the fairest. But then straight dudes would have equal options to others (of course except bi players), and Bioware could not let that happen, couldn't they? Well i have no clue as to what final options will be in MEA but given in DAI it was hetrosexual women who got more options whilst straight dudes and lesbians got only one squadmate romance apiece it's clear at least certain parts of Bioware certainly could let that happen. I expect that Cora will be straight and Peebee and Vetra will be bi. That would give us straight guys 3 squadmate options. Or its possible that Cora will be bi and Vetra will be straight. Either way, we don't lose in any scenario.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2017 13:40:28 GMT
hammerstorm <shrug> That's possible too and you have a good point. I've seen that used in seriousness before, so I err on the side of caution. When it comes to games, I'm open to a lot of ideas about LGBT+ stories. I would like to see some more positive ones though. Especially for gay/bi men that enjoy m/m romances. Less, "Thanks for bringing me the ring of my dead spouse" and more, "Come help me get the sereal killer that got away" type stories. I'm good on things like Bull's PTSD, another case of Carth Syndrome, Assassins trained to be bi and prefer women, and yet more freaking parent issues for m/m stories. Only Kaidan's is free from an unnecessary level of angst. @lisupoland My apologizes for taking your post as a serious comment. My ability to read e-tone is lacking tonight. We cool, girl.
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Post by warbaby2 on Feb 25, 2017 13:40:34 GMT
hammerstorm <shrug> That's possible too and you have a good point. I've seen that used in seriousness before, so I err on the side of caution. When it comes to games, I'm open to a lot of ideas about LGBT+ stories. I would like to see some more positive ones though. Especially for gay/bi men that enjoy m/m romances. Less, "Thanks for bringing me the ring of my dead spouse" and more, "Come help me get the sereal killer that got away" type stories. I'm good on things like Bull's PTSD, another case of Carth Syndrome, Assassins trained to be bi and prefer women, and yet more freaking parent issues for m/m stories. Only Kaidan's is free from an unnecessary level of angst. @ryderfan My apologizes for taking your post as a serious comment. My ability to read e-tone is lacking tonight. Well, there was his youth of torturous experiments in the L3 program... but he seamed to be able to handle that.
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In lurking mode, playing the ME games.
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Post by Natashina on Feb 25, 2017 13:42:53 GMT
hammerstorm <shrug> That's possible too and you have a good point. I've seen that used in seriousness before, so I err on the side of caution. When it comes to games, I'm open to a lot of ideas about LGBT+ stories. I would like to see some more positive ones though. Especially for gay/bi men that enjoy m/m romances. Less, "Thanks for bringing me the ring of my dead spouse" and more, "Come help me get the sereal killer that got away" type stories. I'm good on things like Bull's PTSD, another case of Carth Syndrome, Assassins trained to be bi and prefer women, and yet more freaking parent issues for m/m stories. Only Kaidan's is free from an unnecessary level of angst. @ryderfan My apologizes for taking your post as a serious comment. My ability to read e-tone is lacking tonight. Well, there was his youth of torturous experiments in the L3 program... but he seamed to be able to handle that. Yep. He didn't have a very happy backstory, but it wasn't the focus of his character. He dealt with it well, and seemed to be mostly at peace with his past.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by hammerstorm on Feb 25, 2017 13:53:19 GMT
Natashina : I can't speak from a professional or even lgbt standpoint, but my general take on that kind of post is: Can it be interpreted in 2 ways (nice or bad) it is better to take it on the bright side. This may sound like a bit of a lecture to everybody, sorry in advance: I understand that at this point in this thread (and the forum in general) it is a very delicate balance and it is very easy to take things the wrong way (I have read 2-3 post that have done that) and go on a rampage that will end up bad. So I would encourage people to do one thing, if you are uncertain on what a person is saying, ask for a more indepth explanation. Either here or Pm. But we can all agree that it is fairly easy to see which posters that are just trolling. And those are just easy to ignore. Class over.
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Post by Natashina on Feb 25, 2017 14:05:06 GMT
I tend to lean on the side of seriousness, especially in heavy LGBT+ romance discussions. Part of my job as a mod sometimes, but I don't arbitrarily crack the whip. However, I'm always down to admit when I'm wrong. Anyway, misunderstanding over with.
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wright1978
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Prime Posts: 8,116
Prime Likes: 2073
Posts: 1,679 Likes: 2,555
inherit
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0
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2,555
wright1978
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wright1978
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by wright1978 on Feb 25, 2017 14:20:22 GMT
Well i have no clue as to what final options will be in MEA but given in DAI it was hetrosexual women who got more options whilst straight dudes and lesbians got only one squadmate romance apiece it's clear at least certain parts of Bioware certainly could let that happen. I expect that Cora will be straight and Peebee and Vetra will be bi. That would give us straight guys 3 squadmate options. Or its possible that Cora will be bi and Vetra will be straight. Either way, we don't lose in any scenario. That could happen, though i'm still not getting ahead of myself on the options beyond Cora. If it's more i'll be grateful whereas after the DAI shakedown i was disappointed. I'd still be surprised if any of the orientations doesn't have at least one Bi squaddie available as well as at least one NPC.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2017 14:25:13 GMT
I tend to lean on the side of seriousness, especially in heavy LGBT+ romance discussions. Part of my job as a mod sometimes, but I don't arbitrarily crack the whip. However, I'm always down to admit when I'm wrong. Anyway, misunderstanding over with. Usually a good approach. I was taught: "Many a true word is spoken in jest."
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Post by Natashina on Feb 25, 2017 14:37:41 GMT
I'm usually a complete smartass, but you gotta be careful when modding online.
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not so salty shark
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR
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Post by not so salty shark on Feb 25, 2017 14:47:09 GMT
Even Mass effect 3, the most corporate, mass marketed and milked of all recent Bioware titles, had àt least one gay/bi male squadmate. Between that and Inquisitions financial success, why would making the options so skewed was necessary for 'good buisness'? That I don't know... there are many factors in game design, from market analysis to focus group testing, down to what your publisher wants, and - apparently - something told BW that going more "mainstream" for this title was the right decision. Dunno, blame EA, maybe? Also: They said that they are attempting to make romances a more natural part of the story and less formulaic, and - let's face it - even their non straight relationship options have become quite cookie cutter... I honestly can't say. Still, I doubt it's some kind of discrimination or persecution at play there. (disclaimer: assumption that the leaks are accurate)I as well doubt that there is any real malice behind their decision-making. Even so, it's still extremely disappointing that if they need to make budget cuts, or want to make the game "more mainstream", or whatever, LGBT content is always the first thing they look at after sharpening the axe. It still makes me salty that Thane and Tali were straightwashed at some point during the development process.
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