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Post by Crim on Feb 25, 2017 14:56:06 GMT
That I don't know... there are many factors in game design, from market analysis to focus group testing, down to what your publisher wants, and - apparently - something told BW that going more "mainstream" for this title was the right decision. Dunno, blame EA, maybe? Also: They said that they are attempting to make romances a more natural part of the story and less formulaic, and - let's face it - even their non straight relationship options have become quite cookie cutter... I honestly can't say. Still, I doubt it's some kind of discrimination or persecution at play there. (disclaimer: assumption that the leaks are accurate)I as well doubt that there is any real malice behind their decision-making. Even so, it's still extremely disappointing that if they need to make budget cuts, or want to make the game "more mainstream", or whatever, LGBT content is always the first thing they look at after sharpening the axe. It still makes me salty that Thane and Tali were straightwashed at some point during the development process. I heard about the Tali content getting axed, never heard of Thane stuff tho.
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Post by not so salty shark on Feb 25, 2017 15:03:50 GMT
(disclaimer: assumption that the leaks are accurate)I as well doubt that there is any real malice behind their decision-making. Even so, it's still extremely disappointing that if they need to make budget cuts, or want to make the game "more mainstream", or whatever, LGBT content is always the first thing they look at after sharpening the axe. It still makes me salty that Thane and Tali were straightwashed at some point during the development process. I heard about the Tali content getting axed, never heard of Thane stuff tho. Thane was originally slated to be a bisexual LI as well. There are unused romance audio clips between him and male Shepard floating somewhere out there. Thane calls male Shepard "Siha" and everything.
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Post by warbaby2 on Feb 25, 2017 15:13:35 GMT
I heard about the Tali content getting axed, never heard of Thane stuff tho. Thane was originally slated to be a bisexual LI as well. There are unused romance audio clips between him and male Shepard floating somewhere out there. Thane calls male Shepard "Siha" and everything. To be fair, these kinds of story lines are not the only that's getting cut, I'm not even convinced it's usually "the first thing to go", in fact. I know it might feel like that if ones personal interests are concerned, though.
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Post by not so salty shark on Feb 25, 2017 15:22:55 GMT
Thane was originally slated to be a bisexual LI as well. There are unused romance audio clips between him and male Shepard floating somewhere out there. Thane calls male Shepard "Siha" and everything. To be fair, these kinds of story lines are not the only that's getting cut, I'm not even convinced it's usually "the first thing to go", in fact. I know it might feel like that if ones personal interests are concerned, though. Yes. I am fully aware that it's not the only content that gets cut -- but the fact that it always seems to be part of what ends up on the editing room floor is disheartening to say the least.
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Post by warbaby2 on Feb 25, 2017 15:26:48 GMT
To be fair, these kinds of story lines are not the only that's getting cut, I'm not even convinced it's usually "the first thing to go", in fact. I know it might feel like that if ones personal interests are concerned, though. Yes. I am fully aware that it's not the only content that gets cut -- but the fact that it always seems to be part of what ends up on the editing room floor is disheartening to say the least. I get that... but I fear I can't say anything more consoling here, then: Big business disappoints customers on a regular basis... :/
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Post by zeowik on Feb 25, 2017 15:35:12 GMT
Funny, all I see are people. Some could be straight, some could be LGBT+. I see a group of happy looking people smiling for a camera. I don't see how that is supposed to represent just heterosexuals. I'm bisexual, but you couldn't tell just from looking a photo of me. Edit a bit later: The guy above me was just making a joke and my e-tone reading of it was wrong. This response I am making isn't directed at the image but it is the thing that most worries me. The whole 'it has to make sense for the character' and about it having to be part of who they are rubs me totally the wrong way. My orientation is not part of 'who' I am it is part of what I am. The whole comment makes me worry there is some "this character doesn't act gay enough to be bi" or "this character is too masculine to be bi" thing going on. I really despise that kind of stereotyping. I also despise when such stereotyping is used to determine even how same sex partners are intimate in private. I really hope the leak is wrong. And yeah it is shallow but the "only straight aliens except the clearly straight male fan service Asari" would rub me the wrong way. I know there is a lot of interesting Asari lore but I would be shocked if "hot alien women" wasn't a factor in the design. That most of all would bother me with a "Jaal is too masculine to be bi" reasoning.
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Post by not so salty shark on Feb 25, 2017 15:35:18 GMT
Yes. I am fully aware that it's not the only content that gets cut -- but the fact that it always seems to be part of what ends up on the editing room floor is disheartening to say the least. I get that... but I fear I can't say anything more consoling here, then: Big business disappoints customers on a regular basis... :/ Oh yes, I know. And if it was some other company I probably wouldn't even care so much. I guess what upsets me most is the feeling that with the ME team, while their constant verbal support for the LGBT community is appreciated, all we get in the end is lip service when they're not able to deliver for us. Man, just talking about it is a downer. I am so hoping that they prove me absolutely wrong. If not with the initial release of the game, maybe patching it in later or something. I will gladly feel like the biggest jackass ever.
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Post by Natashina on Feb 25, 2017 15:38:14 GMT
When I'm wrong about something positive, I never feel like a jackass. I smile to myself and feel good about being wrong.
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Post by not so salty shark on Feb 25, 2017 16:01:06 GMT
I would also like to take the time to thank this community for being so supportive and so willing to engage in intelligent, thoughtful conversation as I bitch express my concerns. There was only one truly belligerent fellow here, but he was just an obvious troll and easily blocked forever.
In all honesty, I'm not just concerned with my own personal satisfaction -- I am sincerely hopeful that one day when a future Mass Effect game is being released I can scroll through threads like this and find nothing but super excited, worry-free folks, no matter what kind of romance they're planning on pursuing, and those who aren't interested in that content are all happy for those who are.
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Post by Kimberly on Feb 25, 2017 16:17:52 GMT
That I don't know... there are many factors in game design, from market analysis to focus group testing, down to what your publisher wants, and - apparently - something told BW that going more "mainstream" for this title was the right decision. Dunno, blame EA, maybe? Also: They said that they are attempting to make romances a more natural part of the story and less formulaic, and - let's face it - even their non straight relationship options have become quite cookie cutter... I honestly can't say. Still, I doubt it's some kind of discrimination or persecution at play there. (disclaimer: assumption that the leaks are accurate)I as well doubt that there is any real malice behind their decision-making. Even so, it's still extremely disappointing that if they need to make budget cuts, or want to make the game "more mainstream", or whatever, LGBT content is always the first thing they look at after sharpening the axe. It still makes me salty that Thane and Tali were straightwashed at some point during the development process. I thought I read somewhere that Tali's actor had a problem being with FShep, so the didn't do It?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 25, 2017 16:21:43 GMT
(disclaimer: assumption that the leaks are accurate)I as well doubt that there is any real malice behind their decision-making. Even so, it's still extremely disappointing that if they need to make budget cuts, or want to make the game "more mainstream", or whatever, LGBT content is always the first thing they look at after sharpening the axe. It still makes me salty that Thane and Tali were straightwashed at some point during the development process. I thought I read somewhere that Tali's actor had a problem being with FShep, so the didn't do It? That was nothing more than a rumor that had no basis in anything.
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Post by Suaimhneas on Feb 25, 2017 16:22:50 GMT
The thing that most confuses me about the "pandering to straights" idea, if true (and I hope to hell it's not), is why it needs be an issue of "we must choose: appease the straight players or appease the LGBT community -- straights win because there's more of them". Honest to Fen'Harel, there's room to represent all orientations equally. The DA trilogy and to a lesser extent ME3 proved it. I'm still hoping my curse of "ended up fretting over nothing and now feels like a jackass" strikes, and strikes hard. Surely with this amount of bitching it won't be able to resist!That is something that should be plausible in the world we live in. Unfortunately, there are still some people who freak out at the idea of gay central characters. However, they would freak out regardless, even if the gay characters were side characters. The people who would not buy a game because there's gay main character in it would probably still not be likely to buy it even if there are just minor gay side characters.
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Post by Natashina on Feb 25, 2017 16:23:48 GMT
I never read anything along those lines, personally.
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Post by Kimberly on Feb 25, 2017 16:24:01 GMT
I thought I read somewhere that Tali's actor had a problem being with FShep, so the didn't do It? That was nothing more than a rumor that had no basis in anything. Ok, can't even remember where I saw that. I know a lot of stuff spewed on the internet is BS anyway.
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Post by davkar on Feb 25, 2017 16:40:23 GMT
I still don't get your pessimism. I mean I do, past experiences and all that, but if you combine the infamous "it has to make sense for the character" statement with what we know about the squadmates so far then it isn't too bad. PB: game lore, no question here, moving on. Cora: 4 years with hot alien space babes. Cmon... I can imagine one/some of the squadmates having "let's tease the human newbie" moments. Even if she wasn't turned then the seeds could be there. So yeah, she's the 'gameseller sexy poster girl', but I think she's a feasible option for Sara too. Liam: I got the impression that he's a malleable, puppy kind of guy. So if you go with the 'blue' and grey-but-mostly-good options he'll like the Ryders regardless of gender. Jaal: I don't really have a nug in this race, but I see no reason why he couldn't be a both option. Vetra: umm, I can't be impartial, so sorry, but I'm keeping her. The pessimism comes from the fact that they have not revealed anything about m/m romance (apart from its existence and flirting with Gil I guess). It's quite jarring when this is compared to other romances, especially for straight Scott, where the romance info is officially available. It's even more frustrating that the devs insist that we need to find the romance out by ourselves, unless you play straight Scott. This almost-2nd-class treatment of course causes distrust and so pessimism. The leaked info regarding m/m romance then worsens the situation. And here we are. Except for Vetra, I very much hope you are right. I could not see why any of these characters can't be bi. Having both Liam and Jaal available for m/m romance would make me very happy. M/M never will be part of the marketing. Just look at the Cora thing. Steamy hetero action yet the main takeaway was "boo another ugly man-woman, sjw agenda, yadda yadda". Maybe if they disable comments on yt altogether. The only confirmed romance is Scott-Cora so far. PB is a 99% safe guess because of lore. I wouldn't trust the hands-on reviews, the main goal with those is to get a first (preferably hype) impression about the game itself. I mean if someone played a bit of DAI with a Mquiz they could deduce that Cullen is an available gay romance because he didn't say no in the cutscene-dialogue. Or Cassandra is probably lesbian because the flirting cause disapproval. I'm in full on hype mode for Vetra, but the flirting 'confirmations' doesn't mean that she'll be a full LI. She takes off the googles during sexytime. Who says her sexytimes include Ryder? So consider the above 'rational evidence' as my predictions for the squad. I could be right, could be wrong, but until we get 100% legit confirmations (less than 3 week till the early access) I think it's a bit premature to bash BW based on the past options and leaks/'leaks' alone.
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Post by Ianamus on Feb 25, 2017 16:40:56 GMT
I would also like to take the time to thank this community for being so supportive and so willing to engage in intelligent, thoughtful conversation as I bitch express my concerns. There was only one truly belligerent fellow here, but he was just an obvious troll and easily blocked forever. In all honesty, I'm not just concerned with my own personal satisfaction -- I am sincerely hopeful that one day when a future Mass Effect game is being released I can scroll through threads like this and find nothing but super excited, worry-free folks, no matter what kind of romance they're planning on pursuing, and those who aren't interested in that content are all happy for those who are. That's never going to happen, unfortunately. Bioware will never be able to please everyone. But it's not an excuse for things like this. Personally, I'm relatively easy to please. DA:O, DA2, ME3 and DAI were all fine and I was happy with how they handled the romances. The fact that if the leaks are accurate Andromeda doesn't even live up to my incredibly low expectations is the real issue for me. I just expect better from Bioware at this point.
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Post by blackjimmy on Feb 25, 2017 16:43:01 GMT
Who's been leaked and for whom?
Who's been officially confirmed? Vague comments that hint at it not included.
I'm getting mixed messages from this place.
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Post by Crim on Feb 25, 2017 16:43:08 GMT
That was nothing more than a rumor that had no basis in anything. Ok, can't even remember where I saw that. I know a lot of stuff spewed on the internet is BS anyway. Heard that rumour too, lets hope that it indeed was just that. That is incredibly unprofessional and disappointing if true.
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Post by witchcocktor on Feb 25, 2017 16:45:12 GMT
Maybe I'm naive, but I don't really think straight male gamers care that much about the existence of gay characters, whether main or side. YES, there are people who will go to forums and other social media to express their disgust over gay shit and pandering, but I want to believe that that's just a loud minority. If the gameplay and story is good, I doubt straight male gamers care..
OF COURSE I COULD BE WRONG! I remember there being an achievement for kissing a guy in some game called Bully, and supposedly straight male gamers thought that was the shittiest achievement ever and they had to make their daughters or sisters or girlfriends do that achievement, all the while praising Lollipop Chainsaw's achievement where you look up the main characters skirt and thinking it was the best shit.
But either way, back on topic, GIVE ME MY FUCKING GAY MALE ALIENS HOLY SHIT BW.
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Post by Steelcan on Feb 25, 2017 16:51:24 GMT
Who's been leaked and for whom? Who's been officially confirmed? Vague comments that hint at it not included. I'm getting mixed messages from this place. yeah if I can just get a summary and not dig through 20 pages of salt that'd be great
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2017 16:52:46 GMT
Who's been leaked and for whom? Who's been officially confirmed? Vague comments that hint at it not included. I'm getting mixed messages from this place. Scott and Cora are official. That's it. Devs teased about PeeBee and Vetra and Jaal seems to want Sara, while Gil liked Scott, but no official couples will be announced. The devs said to buy the Prima guide or play the game.
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Post by Ocelot on Feb 25, 2017 16:52:54 GMT
Who's been leaked and for whom? Who's been officially confirmed? Vague comments that hint at it not included. I'm getting mixed messages from this place. yeah if I can just get a summary and not dig through 20 pages of salt that'd be great Vetra and Peebee are hinted to be BI.
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Post by Crim on Feb 25, 2017 17:03:27 GMT
yeah if I can just get a summary and not dig through 20 pages of salt that'd be great Vetra and Peebee are hinted to be BI. Peebee will be bi, I'll eat my hat if she isn't. To add, Suvi is a female science officer aboard the Tempest. Looks to be a lesbian option from what I've gathered. Written by Sheryl and voiced by Katy Townsend, nice combo.
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Post by blackjimmy on Feb 25, 2017 17:04:27 GMT
Who's been leaked and for whom? Who's been officially confirmed? Vague comments that hint at it not included. I'm getting mixed messages from this place. Scott and Cora are official. That's it. Devs teased about PeeBee and Vetra and Jaal seems to want Sara, while Gil liked Scott, but no official couples will be announced. The devs said to buy the Prima guide or play the game. Oh, I assumed a leak confirmed the lack of manloving squad mates or something based on this thread.
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Post by Petroshenko on Feb 25, 2017 17:08:01 GMT
Who's been leaked and for whom? Who's been officially confirmed? Vague comments that hint at it not included. I'm getting mixed messages from this place. The only things that are known or almost granted based on recent batch of previews: Cora for BroRyder Peebee bisexual Asari bonanza for both Vetra for BroRyder (possibly for SisRyder too) Jaal for SisRyder Suvi the Science Officer for SisRyder Rest is not even confirmed to be actual romances. Ryders can flirt with everything including guns & Nomad (j/k on last part of course), so just the presence of flirts alone and mention of that in previews is not enough to confirm romance, or even fling. The "leaks" your're talking about are 5th-hand accounts suppousedly based on sources at Bioware, so it's up to you if you believe it or not.
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