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Post by Artemis on Feb 25, 2017 19:28:30 GMT
The only thing a player should expect is that their individual sexual preference for their character will be respected and their player character will get an equality of choice when it comes to romance. (Which I think we can ALL agree will not be the case in MEA.) Well i'm not sure complete equality of choice should be expected. Once again in Dragon age that certainly isn't the case. Now i agree i'd expect their preference to be respected and there to be an element of choice. I'd also be greatly surprised if that odd leak is true about no squad romance being available for gay men. I know; I'm saying that's what I feel a player should GET -- equality of choice. I'm actually quite unhappy about what they did in DAI.
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Post by amoebae † on Feb 25, 2017 19:30:30 GMT
Actually, not really. I've shared my opinion before on this and my meta griefs of romancing squaddies. I'm fine with either, both have their ups and downs. I'll support you on your quest for a gay human male squaddie romance though! Fair enough, but you gotta realize that squadmates ARE considered "the main prize" in any context by most of the playerbase. If straight female Love Intersts in Andromeda were only NPCs, none in squad, you know there would be a shitstorm. This is key. The devs may well sit there and think, "we've provided options for everyone, we're trying to be as inclusive as possible, and the NPC and/or crew romances can be just as fulfilling as the squad romances, so no one need worry" - but they really need to step back a moment and also think, "if there were no options on the squad for straight men to romance, would that be a problem?" If the answer is "yes" (spoiler: the answer is yes) then we have an issue.
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Post by Petroshenko on Feb 25, 2017 19:31:13 GMT
I'm talking about Everybody, not just this forum. Get out of the BSN bubble and you'll find "Hot Humans" are not in demand in comparison to "I want Jaal!" Compared to Garrus, Tali and Liara no they weren't as popular. Pretending otherwise is an outright lie. I mean they're STILL getting more fanart (and pr0n) even today. But it shouldn't be only human or only alien, it should be both like everyone else seems to have gotten. However I believe it should be made the priority for this game because we've never had it in 3 games. I'm not saying Take Gil away, I'm saying give me some actual variety. You say it should appeal to the majority of the playerbase but Steve and Kaiden ended up appealing to only a small percentage of an already small playerbase. Oh no buddy, I'm not talking about ME3 Jacob, I'm talking way back in 2010 when they tried desperately to make him popular with the ladies. I mean the ridiculous smooth talk, the abs, Femshep sounding over the top flirty with him...and people STILL picked Garrus and even Thane over him. Y'know if you got Vanilla taste that's fine but don't say Vanilla is what should be important and focused on. Especially when the "leak" implies everyone else gets different flavors. Then why Bioware continues to ALWAYS secure humane male/female primary LIs hmmm? Ash & Kaidan, Miranda & Jacob, Cora & Liam, Alistair & Morrigan, Isabella & Anders, Blackwall & Cassandra. If the aliens were so overwhelimngly more popular as you claim, they would've stopped making sure main human male & female LIs are always in. Also, my taste is refined and exquisite, thank you very much. Lastly, I would suggest looking at overall picture, not just tumblr fanart bubble. And that picture is clear that no matter how popular the aliens are, for some mysterious reason Bioware continues to secure LI spots for human male/female always.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 25, 2017 19:31:50 GMT
Vetra and Peebee are hinted to be BI. Peebee will be bi, I'll eat my hat if she isn't. To add, Suvi is a female science officer aboard the Tempest. Looks to be a lesbian option from what I've gathered. Written by Sheryl and voiced by Katy Townsend, nice combo. I hope Suvi is one of the nonsexual options, or at least has it be optional. I really like what we know of her character so far.
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Post by amoebae † on Feb 25, 2017 19:33:13 GMT
Well thank the maker Townsend is using her Scottish accent for Suvi, because Cait's "Irish" accent was some of the worst voice acting I've ever heard in my life. Glad someone else agrees with me about this, I'm Irish and it bugged the hell outta me. Right? I'm English, with Welsh and Irish family, and my mum's partner is Scottish, so I hear it all, and my god was that so-called Irish accent abysmal. Just needed a few more "to be sure"s to top it off.
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Feb 25, 2017 19:33:15 GMT
Fair enough, but you gotta realize that squadmates ARE considered "the main prize" in any context by most of the playerbase. If straight female Love Intersts in Andromeda were only NPCs, none in squad, you know there would be a shitstorm. This is key. The devs may well sit there and think, "we've provided options for everyone, we're trying to be as inclusive as possible, and the NPC and/or crew romances can be just as fulfilling as the squad romances, so no one need worry" - but they really need to step back a moment and also think, "if there were no options on the squad for straight men to romance, would that be a problem?" If the answer is "yes" (spoiler: the answer is yes) then we have an issue. Honestly, I'm wondering exactly how much thought they even put into it. My friend said that there being no bi/gay male squadmates is very intentional on their part, but after how much discussion? Was it early on or did they debate about it years into production? That is, if my friend is correct and considering his source was right on Suvi's writer, Vetra's writer, and he had told me before these were confirmed... Well, I trust him at least a little on this.
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Feb 25, 2017 19:34:11 GMT
Peebee will be bi, I'll eat my hat if she isn't. To add, Suvi is a female science officer aboard the Tempest. Looks to be a lesbian option from what I've gathered. Written by Sheryl and voiced by Katy Townsend, nice combo. I hope Suvi is one of the nonsexual options, or at least has it be optional. I really like what we know of her character so far. Wasn't there an article that mentions Ryder sharing an alcoholic beverage with Suvi? I thought you hated that stuff.
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Post by lurkinganon on Feb 25, 2017 19:34:52 GMT
Gay civil war?! Anyway, go aliens! 95% of the trilogy humans were boring, whether they were whatever type LI, npc or otherwise. Nah I'm just passionate about the topic, not intentionnally antagonistic to users with different opinions than mine.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 25, 2017 19:35:54 GMT
I hope Suvi is one of the nonsexual options, or at least has it be optional. I really like what we know of her character so far. Wasn't there an article that mentions Ryder sharing an alcoholic beverage with Suvi? I thought you hated that stuff. I do, but I've abandoned any hope of being able to control that after what they did with Shepard. Maybe we are to still able to join her but not drink, like with Ashley in the Citadel DLC or The Iron Bull in DAI, or I'll just have to headcanon it is a non-alcoholic beverage.
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Post by amoebae † on Feb 25, 2017 19:39:12 GMT
This is key. The devs may well sit there and think, "we've provided options for everyone, we're trying to be as inclusive as possible, and the NPC and/or crew romances can be just as fulfilling as the squad romances, so no one need worry" - but they really need to step back a moment and also think, "if there were no options on the squad for straight men to romance, would that be a problem?" If the answer is "yes" (spoiler: the answer is yes) then we have an issue. Honestly, I'm wondering exactly how much thought they even put into it. My friend said that there being no bi/gay male squadmates is very intentional on their part, but after how much discussion? Was it early on or did they debate about it years into production? That is, if my friend is correct and considering his source was right on Suvi's writer, Vetra's writer, and he had told me before these were confirmed... Well, I trust him at least a little on this. If your source's source (heh) is right, I can't work out the reasoning behind it. I mean, we had Kaidan and the world didn't end, the sky didn't fall, and there wasn't a backlash (beyond a few toys thrown out the pram by your usual homophobe/troll army). If we hadn't had Kaidan, then I'd straight up say "they're scared of upsetting the straight dudes" but we had Kaidan. What's changed?
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Post by Steelcan on Feb 25, 2017 19:39:51 GMT
who is Suvi?
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Post by amoebae † on Feb 25, 2017 19:40:42 GMT
A Scottish science officer who is part of our crew, I think.
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Feb 25, 2017 19:41:14 GMT
Honestly, I'm wondering exactly how much thought they even put into it. My friend said that there being no bi/gay male squadmates is very intentional on their part, but after how much discussion? Was it early on or did they debate about it years into production? That is, if my friend is correct and considering his source was right on Suvi's writer, Vetra's writer, and he had told me before these were confirmed... Well, I trust him at least a little on this. It your source's source (heh) is right, I can't work out the reasoning behind it. I mean, we had Kaidan and the world didn't end, the sky didn't fall, and there wasn't a backlash (beyond a few toys thrown out the pram by your usual homophobe/troll army). If we hadn't had Kaidan, then I'd straight up say "they're scared of upsetting the straight dudes" but we had Kaidan. What's changed? There was more backlash from that side than you'd think, especially around release. Progress seems especially slow in this industry, and I feel like it's partially due to the aftereffects of Gamergate. People are so scared of "SJW" stuff even though having LGBT characters and other minorities should be what's expected and not what's "socially progressive."
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Post by Artemis on Feb 25, 2017 19:42:31 GMT
It your source's source (heh) is right, I can't work out the reasoning behind it. I mean, we had Kaidan and the world didn't end, the sky didn't fall, and there wasn't a backlash (beyond a few toys thrown out the pram by your usual homophobe/troll army). If we hadn't had Kaidan, then I'd straight up say "they're scared of upsetting the straight dudes" but we had Kaidan. What's changed? There was more backlash from that side than you'd think, especially around release. Progress seems especially slow in this industry, and I feel like it's partially due to the aftereffects of Gamergate. People are so scared of "SJW" stuff even though having LGBT characters and other minorities should be what's expected and not what's "socially progressive." Well I think it's both, but it's like "socially progressive" is a bad word for some people, when in reality it should be one of the most positive things out there.
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Post by amoebae † on Feb 25, 2017 19:45:09 GMT
It your source's source (heh) is right, I can't work out the reasoning behind it. I mean, we had Kaidan and the world didn't end, the sky didn't fall, and there wasn't a backlash (beyond a few toys thrown out the pram by your usual homophobe/troll army). If we hadn't had Kaidan, then I'd straight up say "they're scared of upsetting the straight dudes" but we had Kaidan. What's changed? There was more backlash from that side than you'd think, especially around release. Progress seems especially slow in this industry, and I feel like it's partially due to the aftereffects of Gamergate. People are so scared of "SJW" stuff even though having LGBT characters and other minorities should be what's expected and not what's "socially progressive." Many in BioWare (from the Mass Effect side as well as the DA side) have been vocal in their antipathy of gamergate though, and regularly discuss their belief in equality and disdain for those who don't share it. I mean, I do understand where you're coming from, and you may well be right, but it seems so at odds with what they say publicly that - if anything - I don't want to believe that could be the reason because it would be so incredibly disappointing, and I really don't want to feel even a shred of animosity towards my favourite studio.
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Post by witchcocktor on Feb 25, 2017 19:48:54 GMT
The only reason I've seen people flip out about Kaidan was because he want from not bi, not bi to bi. I've seen no one moan about Steve or his gayness but hey I MIGHT BE WRONG!! So it isn't really a case of '' ew I hate teh gays '' but '' this stinks of being socially progressive to sell games and that's a one-way street to this franchise becoming something that's going to pander to a certain ideology exclusive to sell it's product, thus destroying a series I once loved. '' Whether the second option is a fair reason to criticize the game for, I'll leave that up to you to figure out. For me, it sounds like a pretty fair criticism granted they approve of LGBT content, just not selling an image of being progressive.
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Feb 25, 2017 19:49:57 GMT
There was more backlash from that side than you'd think, especially around release. Progress seems especially slow in this industry, and I feel like it's partially due to the aftereffects of Gamergate. People are so scared of "SJW" stuff even though having LGBT characters and other minorities should be what's expected and not what's "socially progressive." Many in BioWare (from the Mass Effect side as well as the DA side) have been vocal in their antipathy of gamergate though, and regularly discuss their belief in equality and disdain for those who don't share it. I mean, I do understand where you're coming from, and you may well be right, but it seems so at odds with what they say publicly that - if anything - I don't want to believe that could be the reason because it would be so incredibly disappointing, and I really don't want to feel even a shred of animosity towards my favourite studio. I'm not saying Bioware supports gamergate, ofc they don't. I'm saying the environment post-GG has made it harder for more progressive companies to avoid backlash when having LGBT characters.
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Post by not so salty shark on Feb 25, 2017 19:50:34 GMT
This is key. The devs may well sit there and think, "we've provided options for everyone, we're trying to be as inclusive as possible, and the NPC and/or crew romances can be just as fulfilling as the squad romances, so no one need worry" - but they really need to step back a moment and also think, "if there were no options on the squad for straight men to romance, would that be a problem?" If the answer is "yes" (spoiler: the answer is yes) then we have an issue. Honestly, I'm wondering exactly how much thought they even put into it. My friend said that there being no bi/gay male squadmates is very intentional on their part, but after how much discussion? Was it early on or did they debate about it years into production? That is, if my friend is correct and considering his source was right on Suvi's writer, Vetra's writer, and he had told me before these were confirmed... Well, I trust him at least a little on this. That grosses me out so badly I think I need a shower. I take back what I said before -- if that's true, then there is something quite malicious going on somewhere behind the scenes. It just reeks of a "Our gamerbros won't want to fight next to a <expletive deleted>!!!" mindset, and that's so dark ages I can't even.
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Post by warbaby2 on Feb 25, 2017 19:50:57 GMT
There was more backlash from that side than you'd think, especially around release. Progress seems especially slow in this industry, and I feel like it's partially due to the aftereffects of Gamergate. People are so scared of "SJW" stuff even though having LGBT characters and other minorities should be what's expected and not what's "socially progressive." Well I think it's both, but it's like "socially progressive" is a bad word for some people, when in reality it should be one of the most positive things out there. You can thank the unethical games media for that, who made it their mission to virtue signal as spokes people for "marginalized" minorities is the industry. GG never really was about women (or LGBTQ folks, for that matter) in games, it was about those "journalists" and critics making money off of them, while really colluding and promoting each other for personal gain... just wanted to clearify that - again. If anything you can thank the same games media for how the industry handles the topic now...
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Post by hellionrex on Feb 25, 2017 19:50:59 GMT
I did not mind the Kaidan bisexual romance. It felt more natural to me because it was more of a slow burn instead of simply jumping into boning. We were friends for a long time before we were lovers.
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Post by witchcocktor on Feb 25, 2017 19:51:33 GMT
Many in BioWare (from the Mass Effect side as well as the DA side) have been vocal in their antipathy of gamergate though, and regularly discuss their belief in equality and disdain for those who don't share it. I mean, I do understand where you're coming from, and you may well be right, but it seems so at odds with what they say publicly that - if anything - I don't want to believe that could be the reason because it would be so incredibly disappointing, and I really don't want to feel even a shred of animosity towards my favourite studio. I'm not saying Bioware supports gamergate, ofc they don't. I'm saying the environment post-GG has made it harder for more progressive companies to avoid backlash when having LGBT characters. What in the world?! Gamergate isn't some boogeyman coming to destroy your reviews and stealing every copy of the game making sure it doesn't sell if it has gay characters (for instance)..
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Feb 25, 2017 19:52:08 GMT
Well I think it's both, but it's like "socially progressive" is a bad word for some people, when in reality it should be one of the most positive things out there. You can thank the unethical games media for that, who made it their mission to virtue signal as spokes people for "marginalized" minorities is the industry. GG never really was about women (or LGBTQ folks, for that matter) in games, it was about those "journalists" and critics making money off of them, while really colluding and promoting each other for personal gain... Oh god, here comes the "ethics in gaming journalism" excuse. Dude, most people wisened up to its true purpose after years of this.
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Post by lurkinganon on Feb 25, 2017 19:52:31 GMT
Because they have to be there and They're always going to be there to appeal to people who feel the way you do.
But are they as well recieved in comparison to Alien Romances? Ehhhhhhhh.
Miranda was popular, I'll give you that one. Lot of appreciation for Dat Ass but then Dat Ass never came back for ME3 as a Squadmate did it? Garrus came back while Jacob was written to move on with someone else because he wasn't that popular of a romance, aside from Priiized memes.
I myself enjoyed Jack's romance but I recognize Tali and Liara as the more popular.
And oh man you think it's JUST Tumblr? Try a Chan or two. They are BRUTAL and generally filled with A-holes but they are honest. Then you have Facebook and Gamefaqs and Twitter.
Best Case Scenario is you and I both get the husbando(s) we want. Worst Case is we get not one Steve but two Steves.
We'll see what happens when everything is proper leaked.
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Post by wright1978 on Feb 25, 2017 19:53:52 GMT
I did not mind the Kaidan bisexual romance. It felt more natural to me because it was more of a slow burn instead of simply jumping into boning. We were friends for a long time before we were lovers. My only issue with Kaidan was him hitting on me when i was in a long term relationship.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2017 19:54:42 GMT
gaycaravaggio I think there was a lot of confusion on Twitter, in regards to people asking about m/m representation in the game. The developers believed a lot of people were asking about a strictly gay male love interest being on the squad, which is clearly not the case. However, there has been really nothing to suggest there won't be a male squadmate who is bi, and romanceable by Sara and Scott, we just don't know who, and won't until launch most likely. Everyone keep expectations at a healthy level, but don't lose hope either. I reckon we will all be surprised and satisfied. And for the sake of all our sanity's, wait until Prima Guide info comes out, or by datamining and playing the game, before believing anything about the romances. At the end of the day, other than Scott and Cora, we will nothing 100% until we sit down and play the games for ourselves.
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