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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2017 20:15:59 GMT
I think a lot of us are trying to keep hope alive. Though my current approach is basically expect nothing-and anything has to be better then that. I've expected the game to be terrible since the day they announced it, so really all they can do at this point is surprise me with an ok game, like what happened with DA:I. Mostly the same for me. I really barely had this game on my radar 2 months ago. Now I'm almost as addicted to scouring for news as I was for DAI though. (I'm a lot more of a Dragon Age fan then Mass Effect though)
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Post by vertigomez on Feb 25, 2017 20:18:11 GMT
This is what I predict. Lots of hook-ups touted as romances, like getting with Gheyna or Cammen in DAO. Maybe a situation like Anora, where it's not a romance romance but you can still marry her under the right circumstances. I'm not surprised at all. I'm not even disappointed. I just hope that everybody gets at least two fully fleshed-out romance options. And hopefully at least one alien. Well yes and you'd have to be selectively ignoring dev comments that suggest such whilst listening to ones talking up the no of options to be in any way disappointed or surprised. That's why I said I'm not disappointed or surprised. This is what I predict. Lots of hook-ups touted as romances, like getting with Gheyna or Cammen in DAO. Maybe a situation like Anora, where it's not a romance romance but you can still marry her under the right circumstances. I'm not surprised at all. I'm not even disappointed. I just hope that everybody gets at least two fully fleshed-out romance options. And hopefully at least one alien. If Ryder returns as protagonist in the sequel, they better have more gay content. Hell, update one of the m/m options to a squadmate. I can't see why they'd be barred from picking up a gun just because they're not combatant in this game. But some part of me knows that wouldn't happen. I predict lots of gay/lesbian hook-ups, too. But it's just not the same as an in-depth meaningful romance. This is what I predict. Lots of hook-ups touted as romances, like getting with Gheyna or Cammen in DAO. Maybe a situation like Anora, where it's not a romance romance but you can still marry her under the right circumstances. I'm not surprised at all. I'm not even disappointed. I just hope that everybody gets at least two fully fleshed-out romance options. And hopefully at least one alien. Don't forget the various "companions" in the brothel! My gay Warden couldn't resist that dwarf...so many times. Nobody can resist a dwarf.
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Post by Ianamus on Feb 25, 2017 20:19:14 GMT
You say it should appeal to the majority of the playerbase but Steve and Kaiden ended up appealing to only a small percentage of an already small playerbase. I don't think this point could be highlighted enough, it is very true. The alien species off Mass Effect are unique to the setting- you couldn't get those stories anywhere else, so of course players will find them more interesting and unique.
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Post by Steelcan on Feb 25, 2017 20:21:39 GMT
You say it should appeal to the majority of the playerbase but Steve and Kaiden ended up appealing to only a small percentage of an already small playerbase. I don't think this point could be highlighted enough, it is very true. T he alien species off Mass Effect are unique to the setting, you couldn't get those stories anywhere else, so of course players will find them more interesting and unique.
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Post by vertigomez on Feb 25, 2017 20:22:57 GMT
You say it should appeal to the majority of the playerbase but Steve and Kaiden ended up appealing to only a small percentage of an already small playerbase. I don't think this point could be highlighted enough, it is very true. The alien species off Mass Effect are unique to the setting, you couldn't get those stories anywhere else, so of course players will find them more interesting and unique. This is my take on it. Even the other races in DA are all very human-like. No other series is going to let me smooch a turian, so I'm not going to waste my pixel lovin' on a human.
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Post by zaefkol on Feb 25, 2017 20:25:31 GMT
Indeed. Take a game like Outlast for example. Copious amounts of uncensored male nudity and not-so-subtle male homosexual themes, and the "brogamers" still absolutely love it. Well, it IS a horror game... just kidding. No, I agree, I think generally straight gamers don't care... at last if it's not outright "forced" on them in a game where it's not expected. I agree.
The problem I have, however, is that I've seen too many straight gamers say that the content is "forced" on them when it really isn't to completely ignore. That even learning a character isn't straight is forcing "the gay" on them.
I remember old discussions where this kind of gamer would say that they wouldn't be happy with anything less than a gay toggle in the options menu, so that they can lock any content they find objectionable behind nice little walls before the game even begins and never have to subject themselves to the LGBT+ agenda that those SJWs at Bioware keep trying to "force" down their throats.
Thankfully, things have gotten better since the last time I saw that argument in earnest. Thankfully, I know that most straight gamers do not want to live in that gated bubble. And thankfully, I know that most straight gamers don't care if gay content is in a game and are happy to live and let live.
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Post by Ianamus on Feb 25, 2017 20:25:58 GMT
I don't think this point could be highlighted enough, it is very true. T he alien species off Mass Effect are unique to the setting, you couldn't get those stories anywhere else, so of course players will find them more interesting and unique. I'm very serious. I was, and am a large fan of Tali's romance because of this. Can you name another romance in a video game, or really any medium, where you never even see one of the characters faces because they are forced to wear a helmet at almost all times?
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Post by Artemis on Feb 25, 2017 20:31:57 GMT
I'm very serious. I was, and am a large fan of Tali's romance because of this. Can you name another romance in a video game, or really any medium, where you never even see one of the characters faces because they are forced to wear a helmet at almost all times? Well in Skyrim you kind of WANT them to wear helmets all the time because they're so damned ugly...
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Post by warbaby2 on Feb 25, 2017 20:34:55 GMT
Well, it IS a horror game... just kidding. No, I agree, I think generally straight gamers don't care... at last if it's not outright "forced" on them in a game where it's not expected. I agree.
The problem I have, however, is that I've seen too many straight gamers say that the content is "forced" on them when it really isn't to completely ignore. That even learning a character isn't straight is forcing "the gay" on them.
I remember old discussions where this kind of gamer would say that they wouldn't be happy with anything less than a gay toggle in the options menu, so that they can lock any content they find objectionable behind nice little walls before the game even begins and never have to subject themselves to the LGBT+ agenda that those SJWs at Bioware keep trying to "force" down their throats.
Thankfully, things have gotten better since the last time I saw that argument in earnest. Thankfully, I know that most straight gamers do not want to live in that gated bubble. And thankfully, I know that most straight gamers don't care if gay content is in a game and are happy to live and let live.
True, it did die down a bit, which is a good thing. Honestly, that whole "muh representation" and "muh agenda" shrieking that went down over the last couple of years - again, not from the actual players but from the media/critics surrounding and "advocating" for them - did more harm then good...
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Post by Steelcan on Feb 25, 2017 20:35:04 GMT
Sure, and I can do you one better, a longer running and more financially successful video game series where the single most important relationship between the two lead characters never involves seeing the face of one of the participants.
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Post by Panda on Feb 25, 2017 20:36:37 GMT
There is possibility that crew-mances are as good and full romances as squad-mances. There is no point separating two in DAI where Cullen and Josephine have as much content as others and are pretty popular too. However it's entirely possible crew-mances in ME:A aren't going to be as full as Cullen's and Josephine's and rather follow Kelly's, Cortez, Traynor's etc. romances. While not bad, those lack content and depth compared to squad-mances. Bioware hasn't quite brought crew-members on squad level at the moment, we haven't seen pics of many and there is less buzz about them so that could mean they aren't as important. I hope that is not the case though. I liked having important characters and romances outside of the squad as well.
In terms of gamergate and "dudebros".. I don't personally think it matters. There is quite clash between "anti-SJWs" and more progressive folks, but to me it seems like game companies as well as other parts of "nerd/geek culture" are mostly siding with progressive side. There has been more LGBT+ characters and romances, more female protagonists, more ethnic diversity etc. than before. It would be weird to me if Bioware, company that is known and praised for LGBT+ friendliness (DAI even won award about that) and progressiveness suddenly just started going opposite direction. I'm really hoping they don't suddenly start backtracking progress especially when gay marriage and such are becoming legal and normal in the societies around.
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Post by byne on Feb 25, 2017 20:38:44 GMT
Sure, and I can do you one better, a longer running and more financially successful video game series where the single most important relationship between the two lead characters never involves seeing the face of one of the participants. I see your example and raise you one where you never see EITHER of the participants' faces!
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Post by Steelcan on Feb 25, 2017 20:40:19 GMT
on that note, Tex and Church work as another example
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Post by warbaby2 on Feb 25, 2017 20:47:37 GMT
There is possibility that crew-mances are as good and full romances as squad-mances. There is no point separating two in DAI where Cullen and Josephine have as much content as others and are pretty popular too. However it's entirely possible crew-mances in ME:A aren't going to be as full as Cullen's and Josephine's and rather follow Kelly's, Cortez, Traynor's etc. romances. While not bad, those lack content and depth compared to squad-mances. Bioware hasn't quite brought crew-members on squad level at the moment, we haven't seen pics of many and there is less buzz about them so that could mean they aren't as important. I hope that is not the case though. I liked having important characters and romances outside of the squad as well. In terms of gamergate and "dudebros".. I don't personally think it matters. There is quite clash between "anti-SJWs" and more progressive folks, but to me it seems like game companies as well as other parts of "nerd/geek culture" are mostly siding with progressive side. There has been more LGBT+ characters and romances, more female protagonists, more ethnic diversity etc. than before. It would be weird to me if Bioware, company that is known and praised for LGBT+ friendliness (DAI even won award about that) and progressiveness suddenly just started going opposite direction. I'm really hoping they don't suddenly start backtracking progress especially when gay marriage and such are becoming legal and normal in the societies around. ...again, I don't see it. Most "public fans" (YouTubers and there like) also don't seam to even expect BW to do that in any way.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2017 20:53:12 GMT
I hear so many people say that non-squad mate romances are just as good and use Josephine and Cullen as examples. I however disagree. While Cullen's romance was great, it was largely in part with the fact he was already a fairly well established character and his content was abnormally large compared to even some of the squad mates (Dorian and Solas for example). Josephine's romance however was fairly short. Plus she got basically nothing in Trespasser which I know upset at least one person on this board.
The fact is squad romances will most likely get the bulk of the content. Especially in dlc that often times has only focus on combat and in the field situations.
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Post by byne on Feb 25, 2017 20:58:27 GMT
I hear so many people say that non-squad mate romances are just as good and use Josephine and Cullen as examples. I however disagree. While Cullen's romance was great, it was largely in part with the fact he was already a fairly well established character and his content was abnormally large compared to even some of the squad mates (Dorian and Solas for example). Josephine's romance however was fairly short. Plus she got basically nothing in Trespasser which I know upset at least one person on this board. The fact is squad romances will most likely get the bulk of the content. Especially in dlc that often times has only focus on combat and in the field situations. I love Josie, but her romance was so short I legitimately thought I must have messed it up and missed something after beating the game. Here's hoping the non squad romances lean more towards Cullen than Josie, even if that is still less content than squadmances.
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Feb 25, 2017 20:59:39 GMT
I hear so many people say that non-squad mate romances are just as good and use Josephine and Cullen as examples. I however disagree. While Cullen's romance was great, it was largely in part with the fact he was already a fairly well established character and his content was abnormally large compared to even some of the squad mates (Dorian and Solas for example). Josephine's romance however was fairly short. Plus she got basically nothing in Trespasser which I know upset at least one person on this board. The fact is squad romances will most likely get the bulk of the content. Especially in dlc that often times has only focus on combat and in the field situations. I'd also like to add that Cullen had a whole unlockable questline where you can take him into battle with you if you ally or conscript the mages. Josephine's main story content was pretty much relegated to just giving advice the Winter Palace, which Leliana and Cullen also do. We barely ever even saw her do any diplomatic duties onscreen except for a scene towards the beginning and her trying to buy the Inquisition time in the Trespasser DLC. Meanwhile, we actually interacted with Cullen at the Warden quest where he helps us siege the Warden fortress, on top of his involvement in the red templar questline (knowing Samson personally) and his giving advice at the Winter Palace.
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Post by megs80 on Feb 25, 2017 20:59:49 GMT
This will literally be the last time I post here, as constant speculating and worrying and fearing and hoping and over and over again with all those emotions was what caused me to initially delete my account here. Ok so, there has been quite a few leaks, from various sources, each all varying in credibility. I am not criticizing the sources, or their credibility. There are a lot of contradictions, confusion, and a lot of info that can't be confirmed or not, until we play the game. Until then, I think this speculating ends up going nowhere. We know that we aren't going to find out until we play the game. So I think overdiscussing these various leaks just causes a lot of stress and worry and confusion here on the forums. Look, this is the one place on the forums to discuss these leaks. I've acknowledged several times that they might not be quite right. I've acknowledged several times that maybe he could be wrong. And I've apologized for the stress these have caused. I understand if you guys no longer want me to share information, however. I don't think they were having a go at you gaycaravaggio, just stating their own position and perhaps that others getting overly stressed by the discussion take a break from the subject to feel better. Plenty of people are happy to keep theorising and collect any possible info they can find (we all have our preferences ) , the whole forum seems to have become more tense the closer we get to release (it's not your doing).
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Post by zaefkol on Feb 25, 2017 21:00:13 GMT
After taking some more to think about NPC vs squad member romances, I've decided that I'm okay (not happy, but okay) without having an m/m squad romance if, and only if, at least one m/m NPC romance option has Joker levels of presence throughout the game.
I could be misremembering, but I feel like Joker had a lot of content. He had some great dialogue scenes on the Normandy, and he was often in Shepard's ear when the player went on missions.
If Andromeda can give me an m/m NPC romance option who, in addition to whatever conversations we have at his specific hub, has some kind of continued interaction with Ryder while the player is in the field, I'll consider it a win.
Unfortunately, based on what we know about the game so far, the only character I can currently see fitting that profile would be SAM, and as interesting as that romance might be to write, I just don't see it happening.
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Feb 25, 2017 21:01:38 GMT
Look, this is the one place on the forums to discuss these leaks. I've acknowledged several times that they might not be quite right. I've acknowledged several times that maybe he could be wrong. And I've apologized for the stress these have caused. I understand if you guys no longer want me to share information, however. I don't think they were having a go at you gaycaravaggio, just stating their own position and perhaps that others getting overly stressed by the discussion take a break from the subject to feel better. Plenty of people are happy to keep theorising and collect any possible info they can find (we all have our preferences ) , the whole forum seems to have become more tense the closer we get to release (it's not your doing). Thank you. I shouldn't have responded so aggressively.
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Post by Panda on Feb 25, 2017 21:02:21 GMT
Although I'm not familiar with Josephine's romance side, I think she got as much stuff as squadmates and other advisors otherwise. I don't really remember her being less present than others. Still if romance was shorter one, that sucks.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 25, 2017 21:03:03 GMT
I liked Josephine's romance a lot more than Cullen's.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 25, 2017 21:03:32 GMT
Although I'm not familiar with Josephine's romance side, I think she got as much stuff as squadmates and other advisors otherwise. I don't really remember her being less present than others. Still if romance was shorter one, that sucks. It wasn't. It was as long as some of the squad ones.
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Feb 25, 2017 21:03:42 GMT
Although I'm not familiar with Josephine's romance side, I think she got as much stuff as squadmates and other advisors otherwise. I don't really remember her being less present than others. Still if romance was shorter one, that sucks. There's also the fact she doesn't really get any banter from companions in the field commenting on her romance with the Inquisitor anyways. There's more banter about Blackwall having a crush on Josephine than Josephine's relationship with the Inquisitor.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2017 21:04:04 GMT
I hear so many people say that non-squad mate romances are just as good and use Josephine and Cullen as examples. I however disagree. While Cullen's romance was great, it was largely in part with the fact he was already a fairly well established character and his content was abnormally large compared to even some of the squad mates (Dorian and Solas for example). Josephine's romance however was fairly short. Plus she got basically nothing in Trespasser which I know upset at least one person on this board. The fact is squad romances will most likely get the bulk of the content. Especially in dlc that often times has only focus on combat and in the field situations. I'd also like to add that Cullen had a whole unlockable questline where you can take him into battle with you if you ally or conscript the mages. Josephine's main story content was pretty much relegated to just giving advice the Winter Palace, which Leliana and Cullen also do. We barely ever even saw her do any diplomatic duties onscreen except for a scene towards the beginning and her trying to buy the Inquisition time in the Trespasser DLC. Meanwhile, we actually interacted with Cullen at the Warden quest where he helps us siege the Warden fortress, on top of his involvement in the red templar questline (knowing Samson personally) and his giving advice at the Winter Palace. Yep so basically for me anyway, we have one example of a non-team member romance being good from 2 games that tried it...so not very reassuring. I hope we get at least one m/m option on the squad.
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