cespar
N3
Keep a Liam Kosta near! :D
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: MysteryCespar
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Post by cespar on Mar 3, 2017 4:30:35 GMT
I'm just going to face the music here: Leaks aside, all the evidence points to M/M getting the shaft (and not in the way we'd like). Ask about M/F or to a lesser extent F/F romances: "OMG SO MUCH SEXY TIMEZ LOL!!! YOU CAN KEEEEESS DEM!!! ALL DA KEESES!!!"Ask about M/M romances: "..."or "ROMANCES ARE SUPER SECRET! YOU MUST DISCOVER THEM ON YOUR OWN! KEEP IN MIND WE DIDN'T WANT THEM TO BE VIDEO-GAMEY!"The ME team didn't release this information because the romances are very skewed and unfair (especially against M/M) -- they know it, and they really don't feel like doing damage control in the ever so important pre-release phase when the hype is at its height. I'd love for BW to prove me wrong in every facet, but I have a sinking feeling that they won't. First, none of the sexualities has been confirmed for any of the characters that are being teased, so I don't know where you're getting the assumption that it has to be m/f or f/f. The people who are asking about m/m wants to know which characters that are available to them. Teasing about sexy time doesn't equal their gender preference. Second, the last game that came out had some great NPCs with some really good romance arc. Plus, if I remember correctly, M/f and F/f had one companion romance while M/m had two of them. With F/m having the most romance available as companion. Bioware has already stated countless time that the NPCs onboard the Tempest have just as content as the Squad member. Even some of the articles that came out praised the Npc onboard the Tempest. But, you guys are all adults with mind of y'all own. Keep thinking Bioware is personally attacking you, when they've been making LGBT characters just as important as the straight characters. Companion wise, Still hope you guys can at least get Jaal.
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Sarayne
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Post by Sarayne on Mar 3, 2017 4:40:04 GMT
I'm just going to face the music here: Leaks aside, all the evidence points to M/M getting the shaft (and not in the way we'd like). Ask about M/F or to a lesser extent F/F romances: "OMG SO MUCH SEXY TIMEZ LOL!!! YOU CAN KEEEEESS DEM!!! ALL DA KEESES!!!"Ask about M/M romances: "..."or "ROMANCES ARE SUPER SECRET! YOU MUST DISCOVER THEM ON YOUR OWN! KEEP IN MIND WE DIDN'T WANT THEM TO BE VIDEO-GAMEY!"The ME team didn't release this information because the romances are very skewed and unfair (especially against M/M) -- they know it, and they really don't feel like doing damage control in the ever so important pre-release phase when the hype is at its height. I'd love for BW to prove me wrong in every facet, but I have a sinking feeling that they won't. First, none of the sexualities has been confirmed for any of the characters that are being teased, so I don't know where you're getting the assumption that it has to be m/f or f/f. The people who are asking about m/m wants to know which characters that are available to them. Teasing about sexy time doesn't equal their gender preference. Second, the last game that came out had some great NPCs with some really good romance arc. Plus, if I remember correctly, M/f and F/f had one companion romance while M/m had two of them. With F/m having the most romance available as companion. Bioware has already stated countless time that the NPCs onboard the Tempest have just as content as the Squad member. Even some of the articles that came out praised the Npc onboard the Tempest. But, you guys are all adults with mind of y'all own. Keep thinking Bioware is personally attacking you, when they've been making LGBT characters just as important as the straight characters. Companion wise, Still hope you guys can at least get Jaal. Josephine's romance was pretty great and a HUGE step up from Kelly/Traynor imo.
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Post by riou on Mar 3, 2017 4:41:47 GMT
I'm just going to face the music here: Leaks aside, all the evidence points to M/M getting the shaft (and not in the way we'd like). Ask about M/F or to a lesser extent F/F romances: "OMG SO MUCH SEXY TIMEZ LOL!!! YOU CAN KEEEEESS DEM!!! ALL DA KEESES!!!"Ask about M/M romances: "..."or "ROMANCES ARE SUPER SECRET! YOU MUST DISCOVER THEM ON YOUR OWN! KEEP IN MIND WE DIDN'T WANT THEM TO BE VIDEO-GAMEY!"The ME team didn't release this information because the romances are very skewed and unfair (especially against M/M) -- they know it, and they really don't feel like doing damage control in the ever so important pre-release phase when the hype is at its height. I'd love for BW to prove me wrong in every facet, but I have a sinking feeling that they won't. But the former isn't really true? Vetra taking her visor off doesn't in ANY way inform on which way she swings. And Cora's the only one we have absolute confirmation of via the cinematic trailer. PeeBee is only "mostly" confirmed because we've yet to see an Asari with a gender preference, so that's assumed, but not actually hard-confirmed. I'm also skeptical about leaks for the most part because some parts of them are right and other times they're wrong so I'm not going to put a whole lot of faith in them. As for tweets, again, this is a lose-lose for Bioware. They can't give out more information, and even if they could, it'd be DA:I all over again where people were angry that they gave away too much of the story. But now they're being vague and shruggy as hell and now it's bad on them because they're not saying enough. Damned if they do, damned if they don't. Now we're too the point of assuming malicious intent on their part with absolutely zero solid information beyond paranoia. And that's not a solid foundation for anything. As let's not start taking quotes of theirs out of context. People did that with DA2 and they looked like idiots and assholes for doing so let's not follow those footsteps okay?
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zaefkol
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Post by zaefkol on Mar 3, 2017 5:17:48 GMT
I'm just going to face the music here: Leaks aside, all the evidence points to M/M getting the shaft (and not in the way we'd like). Ask about M/F or to a lesser extent F/F romances: "OMG SO MUCH SEXY TIMEZ LOL!!! YOU CAN KEEEEESS DEM!!! ALL DA KEESES!!!"Ask about M/M romances: "..."or "ROMANCES ARE SUPER SECRET! YOU MUST DISCOVER THEM ON YOUR OWN! KEEP IN MIND WE DIDN'T WANT THEM TO BE VIDEO-GAMEY!"The ME team didn't release this information because the romances are very skewed and unfair (especially against M/M) -- they know it, and they really don't feel like doing damage control in the ever so important pre-release phase when the hype is at its height. I'd love for BW to prove me wrong in every facet, but I have a sinking feeling that they won't. First, none of the sexualities has been confirmed for any of the characters that are being teased, so I don't know where you're getting the assumption that it has to be m/f or f/f. The people who are asking about m/m wants to know which characters that are available to them. Teasing about sexy time doesn't equal their gender preference. Second, the last game that came out had some great NPCs with some really good romance arc. Plus, if I remember correctly, M/f and F/f had one companion romance while M/m had two of them. With F/m having the most romance available as companion. Bioware has already stated countless time that the NPCs onboard the Tempest have just as content as the Squad member. Even some of the articles that came out praised the Npc onboard the Tempest. But, you guys are all adults with mind of y'all own. Keep thinking Bioware is personally attacking you, when they've been making LGBT characters just as important as the straight characters. Companion wise, Still hope you guys can at least get Jaal. I feel like I keep coming back to this point in this thread, and because I have responded to it multiple times, I feel that I have enough experience talking about the issue to try to simplify and clarify my position here.
When considering romance content, there is a difference between quantity, quality, and kind. NPC romances can have the same quantity of content as squad romances. NPC romances can have the same quality of content as squad romances. But NPC romances cannot have the same kind of content as squad romances.
As has been said before, there are certain kinds of events and interactions that can only take place in the field, and there is a certain level of depth of relationship that can only be developed through the constant contact that being a member of the squad can provide. Banter, reactions, and the sheer force of physical presence are, with few and limited exceptions, within the sole domain of squadmates, and, as such, can only be used as tools to develop a romantic arc with those squadmates. NPCs might get a few lines of dialogue spoken in the player's ear sprinkled throughout the game, but there is simply no comparison between the weight of interaction that NPCs have in the field when held against squadmates.
I hope that everyone gets at least one squad romance option. I hope the pessimism that I've seen in this thread turns out to be unwarranted. I want everyone to be fairly treated, and I want everyone to be happy with what the game presents them.
But the reality is that the marketing and developer comments have not come across as understanding of the concerns that have been raised in this thread. It took us two full games of drought before m/m options were even a possibility for Shepard, and while it would be disappointing if there was no m/m option for Ryder on the squad in Andromeda, it would not be a surprise.
Okay, now... /rant off
That was a bit longer than I expected. Time for happy hopeful thoughts.
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Mar 3, 2017 5:19:56 GMT
I'm just going to face the music here: Leaks aside, all the evidence points to M/M getting the shaft (and not in the way we'd like). Ask about M/F or to a lesser extent F/F romances: "OMG SO MUCH SEXY TIMEZ LOL!!! YOU CAN KEEEEESS DEM!!! ALL DA KEESES!!!"Ask about M/M romances: "..."or "ROMANCES ARE SUPER SECRET! YOU MUST DISCOVER THEM ON YOUR OWN! KEEP IN MIND WE DIDN'T WANT THEM TO BE VIDEO-GAMEY!"The ME team didn't release this information because the romances are very skewed and unfair (especially against M/M) -- they know it, and they really don't feel like doing damage control in the ever so important pre-release phase when the hype is at its height. I'd love for BW to prove me wrong in every facet, but I have a sinking feeling that they won't. First, none of the sexualities has been confirmed for any of the characters that are being teased, so I don't know where you're getting the assumption that it has to be m/f or f/f. The people who are asking about m/m wants to know which characters that are available to them. Teasing about sexy time doesn't equal their gender preference. Second, the last game that came out had some great NPCs with some really good romance arc. Plus, if I remember correctly, M/f and F/f had one companion romance while M/m had two of them. With F/m having the most romance available as companion. Bioware has already stated countless time that the NPCs onboard the Tempest have just as content as the Squad member. Even some of the articles that came out praised the Npc onboard the Tempest. But, you guys are all adults with mind of y'all own. Keep thinking Bioware is personally attacking you, when they've been making LGBT characters just as important as the straight characters. Companion wise, Still hope you guys can at least get Jaal. The issue is, ME:A is not being done by the DA team. There are some people on it from DA but there's also people on it from SWTOR, which is a franchise that took years to even consider having possible LGBT love interests, and of course some people who've always been on ME, a franchise that took three games to get us any m/m romances at all. I'm not saying they haven't progressed. They have. We're just worried they're going to start going backwards when it's the best time to move forward in terms of LGBT rep. If the gay crewmembers are really that important, that significant, then how come we haven't seen anything on Gil or Suvi? Sure, yeah, we had marketing on SAM, Dr. Lexi, Kallo, etc. But how come we only heard about Gil and Suvi at the last minute, with the devs refusing to even talk about them and tease them and give us screenshots of them? It just looks bad to us, when we're always going to be worried about losing out on content due to backlash for the very existence of people like us in the game. I'm waiting for them to prove me wrong on this. I really want them to prove me wrong. However, until then, I don't know if I can put my faith in it, and that's why I'm being so critical and bitter about this.
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Post by lurkinganon on Mar 3, 2017 6:31:09 GMT
If they had one M/M romance would that satisfy yall? No, I'm not going to be satisfied with Gil. I merely want a decent amount of options, similar to you. Options that are clearly different from each other, not Redhead HuMan and darker Skinned HuMan. Personally I don't find it to be an attack or homophobic, it's just...It would be Bioware being afraid to write outside of their comfort zone of Regular&Alien Human M/F Regular&Alien F/F and Strictly Human M/M and that's rather lame.
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Post by BansheeOwnage on Mar 3, 2017 6:34:29 GMT
On another note, I was just on the "Who's Who's in ME:A?" thread here and there are 22 named characters listed. And we have pictures for 19 of them. One of the unknown ones is some guy named August. Want to take three guess who the only other two that don't have images are? And the first two guesses don't count. I didn't know those numbers. Those are... On another note, I was just on the "Who's Who's in ME:A?" thread here and there are 22 named characters listed. And we have pictures for 19 of them. One of the unknown ones is some guy named August. Want to take three guess who the only other two that don't have images are? And the first two guesses don't count. We know the faces of several NPCs.... and yet we don't know what Suvi or Gil look like. And they're not even sure if we will before launch. I really hope they're both in the video tomorrow. Gay fans are waiting Bioware devs are baiting This is a haiku A round of applause! I feel like I keep coming back to this point in this thread, and because I have responded to it multiple times, I feel that I have enough experience talking about the issue to try to simplify and clarify my position here.
When considering romance content, there is a difference between quantity, quality, and kind. NPC romances can have the same quantity of content as squad romances. NPC romances can have the same quality of content as squad romances. But NPC romances cannot have the same kind of content as squad romances.
As has been said before, there are certain kinds of events and interactions that can only take place in the field, and there is a certain level of depth of relationship that can only be developed through the constant contact that being a member of the squad can provide. Banter, reactions, and the sheer force of physical presence are, with few and limited exceptions, within the sole domain of squadmates, and, as such, can only be used as tools to develop a romantic arc with those squadmates. NPCs might get a few lines of dialogue spoken in the player's ear sprinkled throughout the game, but there is simply no comparison between the weight of interaction that NPCs have in the field when held against squadmates. Can I just quote this next time it comes up? It's annoying that it has to be repeatedly explained. Just to add to that a little: We're not even necessarily talking about romance-specific content making the squadmates have a different (and superior in my view) romantic flavour to them. Sure, sometimes they might flirt with you in the field, or scream your name if you need to be revived. That's awesome, but even just normal content you'd also see in a non-romance playthrough adds to the romance itself, for the simple reasons of adding depth to their character and growing attached through time spent together. There is more to romances than a sum of all of their flirts and romance-specific scenes - being in the field together, hearing their mundane comments on a mission or vista, bantering with other squadmates - and squadmates just naturally have more of that. That's why they're "prime real estate", as it were. Plus, for me, I like the idea of being a Battle Couple for various reasons. I like when they can protect each other. Because I'm a big softie
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 3, 2017 6:43:40 GMT
Regarding the whole "NPCs can't compare to squadmates" thing
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Post by Dirk on Mar 3, 2017 6:48:01 GMT
First, none of the sexualities has been confirmed for any of the characters that are being teased, so I don't know where you're getting the assumption that it has to be m/f or f/f. The people who are asking about m/m wants to know which characters that are available to them. Teasing about sexy time doesn't equal their gender preference. Second, the last game that came out had some great NPCs with some really good romance arc. Plus, if I remember correctly, M/f and F/f had one companion romance while M/m had two of them. With F/m having the most romance available as companion. Bioware has already stated countless time that the NPCs onboard the Tempest have just as content as the Squad member. Even some of the articles that came out praised the Npc onboard the Tempest. But, you guys are all adults with mind of y'all own. Keep thinking Bioware is personally attacking you, when they've been making LGBT characters just as important as the straight characters. Companion wise, Still hope you guys can at least get Jaal. The issue is, ME:A is not being done by the DA team. There are some people on it from DA but there's also people on it from SWTOR, which is a franchise that took years to even consider having possible LGBT love interests, and of course some people who've always been on ME, a franchise that took three games to get us any m/m romances at all. I'm not saying they haven't progressed. They have. We're just worried they're going to start going backwards when it's the best time to move forward in terms of LGBT rep. If the gay crewmembers are really that important, that significant, then how come we haven't seen anything on Gil or Suvi? Sure, yeah, we had marketing on SAM, Dr. Lexi, Kallo, etc. But how come we only heard about Gil and Suvi at the last minute, with the devs refusing to even talk about them and tease them and give us screenshots of them? It just looks bad to us, when we're always going to be worried about losing out on content due to backlash for the very existence of people like us in the game. I'm waiting for them to prove me wrong on this. I really want them to prove me wrong. However, until then, I don't know if I can put my faith in it, and that's why I'm being so critical and bitter about this. You nailed this one! Really I feel I have not appreciated Gaider enough for lgbt content in DA series, and sadly he's not working on MEA. Meanwhile, there's "quarantine the gays to one planet" expansion in SWTOR. :smh: Their marketing does not give us the confidence either. They put Cora and Scott on the trailer, but they refused to reveal anything else regarding lgb romance, apart from its existence. I don't ask for a gay romance scene to be shown on a trailer (though I would love it), but some information would be a good gesture. They don't have to reveal all the options like in DAI. They can just go with "ok here's one dude on squad mate Scott can romance. Another dude Sara can romance. One girl for Scott, and one girl to Sara." It's a false dichotomy to believe that they can only go either the DAI way or the current MEA way. On the crew members thing, we don't even know how Gil and Suvi look like lol. But I do hope that with a few weeks left, they will be revealed. Regardless of their content though, I still prefer squad mate romance. I can't wait for Bioware to come out and prove me wrong really. I want to be looked like a fool when the game comes out and when it turns out that there's great m/m squad mate romance.
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Post by Panda on Mar 3, 2017 7:10:01 GMT
Regarding the whole "NPCs can't compare to squadmates" thing Yep, I think Bioware proved that NPC romances can be as good as squadmances with DAI already. The thing with ME:A just is that will they be as good as DAI had? Somehow the lack of marketing towards crewmates makes it look like they won't be to me.
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Jaal Is Not Ojingeo
N3
No more cry now Jaal is bi!!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Jaal Is Not Ojingeo on Mar 3, 2017 7:33:34 GMT
First, none of the sexualities has been confirmed for any of the characters that are being teased, so I don't know where you're getting the assumption that it has to be m/f or f/f. The people who are asking about m/m wants to know which characters that are available to them. Teasing about sexy time doesn't equal their gender preference. Second, the last game that came out had some great NPCs with some really good romance arc. Plus, if I remember correctly, M/f and F/f had one companion romance while M/m had two of them. With F/m having the most romance available as companion. Bioware has already stated countless time that the NPCs onboard the Tempest have just as content as the Squad member. Even some of the articles that came out praised the Npc onboard the Tempest. But, you guys are all adults with mind of y'all own. Keep thinking Bioware is personally attacking you, when they've been making LGBT characters just as important as the straight characters. Companion wise, Still hope you guys can at least get Jaal. I feel like I keep coming back to this point in this thread, and because I have responded to it multiple times, I feel that I have enough experience talking about the issue to try to simplify and clarify my position here.
When considering romance content, there is a difference between quantity, quality, and kind. NPC romances can have the same quantity of content as squad romances. NPC romances can have the same quality of content as squad romances. But NPC romances cannot have the same kind of content as squad romances.
As has been said before, there are certain kinds of events and interactions that can only take place in the field, and there is a certain level of depth of relationship that can only be developed through the constant contact that being a member of the squad can provide. Banter, reactions, and the sheer force of physical presence are, with few and limited exceptions, within the sole domain of squadmates, and, as such, can only be used as tools to develop a romantic arc with those squadmates. NPCs might get a few lines of dialogue spoken in the player's ear sprinkled throughout the game, but there is simply no comparison between the weight of interaction that NPCs have in the field when held against squadmates.
I hope that everyone gets at least one squad romance option. I hope the pessimism that I've seen in this thread turns out to be unwarranted. I want everyone to be fairly treated, and I want everyone to be happy with what the game presents them.
But the reality is that the marketing and developer comments have not come across as understanding of the concerns that have been raised in this thread. It took us two full games of drought before m/m options were even a possibility for Shepard, and while it would be disappointing if there was no m/m option for Ryder on the squad in Andromeda, it would not be a surprise.
Okay, now... /rant off
That was a bit longer than I expected. Time for happy hopeful thoughts.
This, a thousand times this. I am not good at explaining, but this perfectly captures my feeling on why I would prefer a M/M squadmate romance over a crewmate and most definitely over a random NPC on a random planet. I suppose they can squeeze in same amount of basic romance scenes and same amount of sex cutscene (which I doubt for people on planet.) But it is still missing a huge quality that squadmates have, the interaction and scenes that only happen in field. Someone while ago posted a picture of Kaidan and male Shepard in the extended cut of ME3, right before Shepard goes up to the Catalyst. That's the kind of content that is missing from non-squadmate romance, and of course the banter running around in the field that we are apparently going to get, unless I'm mistaken.
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Post by jaybo on Mar 3, 2017 7:38:40 GMT
Regarding the whole "NPCs can't compare to squadmates" thing Yep, I think Bioware proved that NPC romances can be as good as squadmances with DAI already. The thing with ME:A just is that will they be as good as DAI had? Somehow the lack of marketing towards crewmates makes it look like they won't be to me. No, i would say the thing with ME:A (or DAI) is that many people do not feel that way and for good reasons that cannot not be proven false.
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Post by naychan on Mar 3, 2017 7:56:14 GMT
(posted this in Gil's thread, gonna post here, because we need ANY INFORMATION) I've got further details on Gil's appearance from guy who described him as ,,handsome'' ( in this polish article) He says Gil looks like an average human from previous Mass Effect games (meh). That was his impression when he first saw him anyway. He's well-built (but he's less muscular than James Vega). He's got square jaw and short hair just like Cullen/Alistair. And he has very distinctive copper hair (daveliam was right!) not really much, but... it's something I'm sorry but It's boreeeed. It's look like Steve 2.0 version. And I'm not racist... but why gays always have darker skin? lol Dorian have it and Steve too, now Gil? With this situation... I can play only Sarah or pray about some alien NPCs. A lot of people left bioware and MassEffect team. Maybe new team making games only for straight. I wouldn't be surprised. More people, more money.
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Post by Davrin's boobs on Mar 3, 2017 7:58:34 GMT
But, you guys are all adults with mind of y'all own. Keep thinking Bioware is personally attacking you, when they've been making LGBT characters just as important as the straight characters. Companion wise, Still hope you guys can at least get Jaal. Ashley, Kaidan (ME1), Miranda, Garrus, Alistair, Morrigan, Solas and Cass disagree with you on this. Liara is the only one who is a exception but she is a blue-skinned space babe created without lesbians in mind. I'm really thankful for Bioware, is the only company that is truly LGBTQ friendly, but that is not gonna stop me to criticize them when they do things wrong, like their marketing strategy for this game. But hey! If we are not getting any squadmate in this game, you won't get any in the next and we can call it a tie, since it's not a big deal right? :sure:
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by The Elder King on Mar 3, 2017 8:05:00 GMT
(posted this in Gil's thread, gonna post here, because we need ANY INFORMATION) I've got further details on Gil's appearance from guy who described him as ,,handsome'' ( in this polish article) He says Gil looks like an average human from previous Mass Effect games (meh). That was his impression when he first saw him anyway. He's well-built (but he's less muscular than James Vega). He's got square jaw and short hair just like Cullen/Alistair. And he has very distinctive copper hair (daveliam was right!) not really much, but... it's something I'm sorry but It's boreeeed. It's look like Steve 2.0 version. And I'm not racist... but why gays always have darker skin? lol Dorian have it and Steve too, now Gil? With this situation... I can play only Sarah or pray about some alien NPCs. A lot of people left bioware and MassEffect team. Maybe new team making games only for straight. I wouldn't be surprised. More people, more money. Strange, considering we have people saying the opposite thing . It's also weird because if they'd make games only for straight there won't be any type of gay LI. With this, I'm not saying it's right if there won't be a male LI for Scott in the squad, but your post is an exaggeration, as well as the posts saying Bioware has a SJW agenda. They don't have a hive mind. The various devs have different opinion and values and priorities. In any case, with the exception of Gaider (which wasn't involved with ME to begin with) the devs that left weren't in a position where they could determine the policies of the company in regard of the matter.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 3, 2017 8:05:53 GMT
Regarding the whole "NPCs can't compare to squadmates" thing Yep, I think Bioware proved that NPC romances can be as good as squadmances with DAI already. The thing with ME:A just is that will they be as good as DAI had? Somehow the lack of marketing towards crewmates makes it look like they won't be to me. I wouldn't say that. With what we know of Dr. Lexi in terms of interactions, if she is a love interest she will easily surpass the advisers and even the squadmates. Same with Kallo. As for Suvi and Gil, just because they haven't been marketed doesn't mean they won't be huge characters.
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eternalgoddess
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Post by eternalgoddess on Mar 3, 2017 8:20:07 GMT
That's what Scott's va is doing. I'm genuinely looking forward to see how MEA stacks up against this year's games. FUCK SAKE! i need to get paid so I can buy a Wii switch like right now!
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Post by Panda on Mar 3, 2017 8:54:55 GMT
Yep, I think Bioware proved that NPC romances can be as good as squadmances with DAI already. The thing with ME:A just is that will they be as good as DAI had? Somehow the lack of marketing towards crewmates makes it look like they won't be to me. No, i would say the thing with ME:A (or DAI) is that many people do not feel that way and for good reasons that cannot not be proven false. Some people like having their LIs around on field, but that doesn't mean that crewmates can't be as important as them as characters and their romance can't have as much content as theirs. If that happens, I don't see the point on separating the two as romances. Yep, I think Bioware proved that NPC romances can be as good as squadmances with DAI already. The thing with ME:A just is that will they be as good as DAI had? Somehow the lack of marketing towards crewmates makes it look like they won't be to me. I wouldn't say that. With what we know of Dr. Lexi in terms of interactions, if she is a love interest she will easily surpass the advisers and even the squadmates. Same with Kallo. As for Suvi and Gil, just because they haven't been marketed doesn't mean they won't be huge characters. Somewhat I have different vibe of crewmates, but I wouldn't mind being wrong on this one. Full romance with Kallo would be cool.
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Post by KalleDemos on Mar 3, 2017 9:34:06 GMT
First, none of the sexualities has been confirmed for any of the characters that are being teased, so I don't know where you're getting the assumption that it has to be m/f or f/f. The people who are asking about m/m wants to know which characters that are available to them. Teasing about sexy time doesn't equal their gender preference. Second, the last game that came out had some great NPCs with some really good romance arc. Plus, if I remember correctly, M/f and F/f had one companion romance while M/m had two of them. With F/m having the most romance available as companion. Bioware has already stated countless time that the NPCs onboard the Tempest have just as content as the Squad member. Even some of the articles that came out praised the Npc onboard the Tempest. But, you guys are all adults with mind of y'all own. Keep thinking Bioware is personally attacking you, when they've been making LGBT characters just as important as the straight characters. Companion wise, Still hope you guys can at least get Jaal. I feel like I keep coming back to this point in this thread, and because I have responded to it multiple times, I feel that I have enough experience talking about the issue to try to simplify and clarify my position here.
When considering romance content, there is a difference between quantity, quality, and kind. NPC romances can have the same quantity of content as squad romances. NPC romances can have the same quality of content as squad romances. But NPC romances cannot have the same kind of content as squad romances.
As has been said before, there are certain kinds of events and interactions that can only take place in the field, and there is a certain level of depth of relationship that can only be developed through the constant contact that being a member of the squad can provide. Banter, reactions, and the sheer force of physical presence are, with few and limited exceptions, within the sole domain of squadmates, and, as such, can only be used as tools to develop a romantic arc with those squadmates. NPCs might get a few lines of dialogue spoken in the player's ear sprinkled throughout the game, but there is simply no comparison between the weight of interaction that NPCs have in the field when held against squadmates.
I hope that everyone gets at least one squad romance option. I hope the pessimism that I've seen in this thread turns out to be unwarranted. I want everyone to be fairly treated, and I want everyone to be happy with what the game presents them.
But the reality is that the marketing and developer comments have not come across as understanding of the concerns that have been raised in this thread. It took us two full games of drought before m/m options were even a possibility for Shepard, and while it would be disappointing if there was no m/m option for Ryder on the squad in Andromeda, it would not be a surprise.
Okay, now... /rant off
That was a bit longer than I expected. Time for happy hopeful thoughts.
I absolutely love when people who have no idea what we're experiencing interject to tell us how we should feel and what we should be happy with.
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Post by jjdxb on Mar 3, 2017 9:35:09 GMT
No, i would say the thing with ME:A (or DAI) is that many people do not feel that way and for good reasons that cannot not be proven false. Some people like having their LIs around on field, but that doesn't mean that crewmates can't be as important as them as characters and their romance can't have as much content as theirs. If that happens, I don't see the point on separating the two as romances. I wouldn't say that. With what we know of Dr. Lexi in terms of interactions, if she is a love interest she will easily surpass the advisers and even the squadmates. Same with Kallo. As for Suvi and Gil, just because they haven't been marketed doesn't mean they won't be huge characters. Somewhat I have different vibe of crewmates, but I wouldn't mind being wrong on this one. Full romance with Kallo would be cool. Yeah I agree. Gil is the bloody chief engineer, how is that "being relegated to minor NPC"? He's one of the most important people on the ship. Just because players have ignored these kinds of people in previous games doesn't mean they aren't important.
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Post by ash on Mar 3, 2017 10:09:35 GMT
Some people like having their LIs around on field, but that doesn't mean that crewmates can't be as important as them as characters and their romance can't have as much content as theirs. If that happens, I don't see the point on separating the two as romances. Somewhat I have different vibe of crewmates, but I wouldn't mind being wrong on this one. Full romance with Kallo would be cool. Yeah I agree. Gil is the bloody chief engineer, how is that "being relegated to minor NPC"? He's one of the most important people on the ship. Just because players have ignored these kinds of people in previous games doesn't mean they aren't important. Um... Are you sure you played ME3? Do you remember amount of content Adams had? He was a bloody chief enineer and except for 2 starting dialogues and one final he had no content. Oh, ye, he was seen with Chakwas once. That's all. /ranton Normandy crew overall got little to no content. The only one who got relatively close to companions was Joker, and even he had tons of autodialogues and almost no cutscenes (one at the start with EDI involved, one with Garrus involved, and one at the end if I am to count "memorable ones"). Oh, and one meetup with the DLC. Much content. ME series always was quite awful with crewmates content. DAI with Cullen and Josephine romances... Cullen already had large fanbase and quite big (for a series with different protagonist every time) amount of content linked to him. Giving him more cutscenes was a no-brainer - that'd be good for making more money, since some peeps decide solely based on romance option and that would appeal to his fanbase. Josie, on the other hand... she had much content, but it was very one-sided. Bit similar to Liara - either you are choking on amount of sugar and disney poured at her content, or you are playing as a complete dickhead. Feels a bit bland to me. But yep, she had content. She and Cullen. Harding, Crem, anybody else in Skyhold had almost no content (I'm not counting repetitive similar dialogues). Now we have Kallo, Suvi, Gil and Lexi and I wouldn't be surprised if all will be given to Lexi, with everybody else having very one-sided things tied to them. /rantoff
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Post by Blue-Slates on Mar 3, 2017 10:22:57 GMT
Regarding the whole "NPCs can't compare to squadmates" thing And also with respect, I disagree, but that's subjective and really only part of the issue issue at least for me personally. While it may turn out that crewmates/planet side NPCs - and their romances - have just as much content as squaddies, the fact that mlm don't appear to have the choice between NPCs and squadmates is a cause for concern, especially if every other orientation gets at least one romance on the squad. There are people who would really like to romance a squaddie, there are those who like NPC romances but it's rather disheartening to those in the first group to not get that option. And traditionally - until recently, and only for a few - NPCs have had less content that squadmates/companions, so there's a precedent set that causes people to worry. I know I don't like feeling stuck with only NPCs.
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Post by jjdxb on Mar 3, 2017 11:44:31 GMT
Yeah I agree. Gil is the bloody chief engineer, how is that "being relegated to minor NPC"? He's one of the most important people on the ship. Just because players have ignored these kinds of people in previous games doesn't mean they aren't important. Um... Are you sure you played ME3? Do you remember amount of content Adams had? He was a bloody chief enineer and except for 2 starting dialogues and one final he had no content. Oh, ye, he was seen with Chakwas once. That's all. /ranton Normandy crew overall got little to no content. The only one who got relatively close to companions was Joker, and even he had tons of autodialogues and almost no cutscenes (one at the start with EDI involved, one with Garrus involved, and one at the end if I am to count "memorable ones"). Oh, and one meetup with the DLC. Much content. ME series always was quite awful with crewmates content. DAI with Cullen and Josephine romances... Cullen already had large fanbase and quite big (for a series with different protagonist every time) amount of content linked to him. Giving him more cutscenes was a no-brainer - that'd be good for making more money, since some peeps decide solely based on romance option and that would appeal to his fanbase. Josie, on the other hand... she had much content, but it was very one-sided. Bit similar to Liara - either you are choking on amount of sugar and disney poured at her content, or you are playing as a complete dickhead. Feels a bit bland to me. But yep, she had content. She and Cullen. Harding, Crem, anybody else in Skyhold had almost no content (I'm not counting repetitive similar dialogues). Now we have Kallo, Suvi, Gil and Lexi and I wouldn't be surprised if all will be given to Lexi, with everybody else having very one-sided things tied to them. /rantoff Just because they don't interact with you doesn't mean they aren't important. I'm disagreeing with the idea that they aren't important because you don't interact with them. It's up to BW to make sure that there is enough interaction BUT please use a different word that isn't "important". Because many of the squaddies themselves are hardly as critical as the chief engineer in actually running anything. Like seriously, Ashley could have been any grunt and it wouldn't have made a damn difference to the outcome of any mission. People are confusing "important" and "plot-critical" with "I can interact with them" EDIT: Chakwas and Joker were both important and highly interactive but the fact they weren't squaddies doesn't detract from their in-game importance.
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Post by megs80 on Mar 3, 2017 12:03:05 GMT
On a more positive note maybe the smaller squad will lead to more crew interaction/development .
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Post by Suaimhneas on Mar 3, 2017 12:04:56 GMT
I'm just going to face the music here: Leaks aside, all the evidence points to M/M getting the shaft (and not in the way we'd like). Ask about M/F or to a lesser extent F/F romances: "OMG SO MUCH SEXY TIMEZ LOL!!! YOU CAN KEEEEESS DEM!!! ALL DA KEESES!!!"Ask about M/M romances: "..."or "ROMANCES ARE SUPER SECRET! YOU MUST DISCOVER THEM ON YOUR OWN! KEEP IN MIND WE DIDN'T WANT THEM TO BE VIDEO-GAMEY!"The ME team didn't release this information because the romances are very skewed and unfair (especially against M/M) -- they know it, and they really don't feel like doing damage control in the ever so important pre-release phase when the hype is at its height. I'd love for BW to prove me wrong in every facet, but I have a sinking feeling that they won't. First, none of the sexualities has been confirmed for any of the characters that are being teased, so I don't know where you're getting the assumption that it has to be m/f or f/f. The people who are asking about m/m wants to know which characters that are available to them. Teasing about sexy time doesn't equal their gender preference. Second, the last game that came out had some great NPCs with some really good romance arc. Plus, if I remember correctly, M/f and F/f had one companion romance while M/m had two of them. With F/m having the most romance available as companion. Bioware has already stated countless time that the NPCs onboard the Tempest have just as content as the Squad member. Even some of the articles that came out praised the Npc onboard the Tempest. But, you guys are all adults with mind of y'all own. Keep thinking Bioware is personally attacking you, when they've been making LGBT characters just as important as the straight characters. Companion wise, Still hope you guys can at least get Jaal. nah im just kidding
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