The Character Romance thread (Official)

Change how though?  Guaranteeing a certain amount of shelf space for LGBT writers? 

I'd say that's a start, of some sort. But you tell me, since you're in the majority.

Then I'm sorry for asking too much.

But to have progress for lgbt+ material in small increments; in small pushes for progress with lukewarm support for it, but for fear of offending the social conservatives isn't good enough.

Nonetheless, we carry on. In indie scenes. Or small bursts of exposure in the mainstream.

Hmmm, I didn't actually flirt with anyone for the 'rejection' line (because I already knew the orientations).

How were the 'rejection' lines in MEA?

I thought Sera's 'I'm just not into you' was rather well done, in DAI...

The only one I know is Gil's to Sara, where he tells her that Liam is more his speed.

I've never seen any of the rejections, for either DAI or MEA. I only flirt with people I plan to romance, and for both of those I already knew the orientations of everyone. It didn't matter in DA2. Are there same-sex flirts for Alistair and Morrigan in DAO? Most of Alistair's content is just about being nice to him anyway; I don't think there is much suggestive flirting.

Exactly. This wouldn't even be an issue if we had better representation in the first place. As it stands, Suvi isn't just the only lesbian main character, she's the only known lesbian in the entire game, and it's a stretch to even say "known" since her sexuality is as hidden as it can be without her rejecting Sara.

Considering everyone else has orientation-based rejections (except Jaal who doesn't have any rejections at all), it's pretty odd. Suvi wanting to have a professional relationship is fine in theory, but it comes across as a lie when you know she doesn't do that with Sara. And orientation isn't something you need to hide in this universe, and Gil doesn't. It's just odd.

And of course, her reason is just plain untrue. If it was, she'd reject Sara initially as well. And besides, nothing says "professional" like locking your co-workers out of a lab so you can have sex in it, right?


But the rejection line on its own doesn't really matter, it's that when you combine it with Suvi never even hinting at her orientation otherwise, she becomes an invisible lesbian, and invisible people don't make for good representation. And all of that is only an issue because she's the only lesbian. If there were other prominent lesbians, her orientation not being easily known wouldn't really matter.

Basically: Only lesbian + no mention of orientation = unfortunate implications. I'm not accusing Chee of anything, I know she's an ally. And it's not really her fault Suvi's the only lesbian either. But that's still how it turned out.

And aside from being inconsistent with all the other rejection lines, it's also part of a different issue. Something I wrote before:

It just rubs me the wrong way that her romance feels like it's almost afraid to acknowledge itself as what it is: A relationship between two women. No gendered dialogue, no physical attraction, nothing more than kisses... I know Sheryl Chee was trying to do right by us. And as I've said before, Suvi's character is fine in a vacuum, but because she's the only lesbian in ME:A, she has extra responsibility to represent us. All the more reason to have more, and varied, LGBT people in stories.

Gah, I feel like I'm not explaining myself properly. Well, I've ranted about this many times before, so hopefully my general point is clear by now.

Of course, at the time I wrote that I didn't hear the scuttlebutt that she was narrowly saved from being bi contrary to Chee's intention. Not sure if that was a factor in the above.

And yeah, you can still feel bad, or be apologetic, I don't think that's the issue. You can do that and mention orientation. "That's not going to work, I'm only interested in women." "I'm sorry, but I'm not into guys." If Liam can say it, why not her?

Cora bluntly, and in a rather annoyed tone, says she's not into women. Liam bluntly but nicely says he's not into guys, but he's flattered. Gil doesn't Say The Words™ directly, but makes it clear by saying "Liam's more his speed." Jaal doesn't have a rejection for Scott because Scott's locked out of flirting/friendship lines with him (a big reason for MakeJaalBi, since technically his orientation is unknown).

So it's only Suvi who doesn't mention her orientation. In fact, it's no different than Lexi wanting to Keep Things Professional™, except that's not the real reason for Suvi's rejection. Strange, huh?

(I'm going off the ones I saw. I know there are multiple rejections possible for some characters, depending on what conversation you try flirting in. Not sure if Suvi has another variation or if it's different - doubt it.)

Yes but the problem is the delicate little petal straight guys who are too insecure to be around gay and feel any remotely flirtacious remarks are them being unfairly ninjamanced and how it's heterophobia for them to be forced to acknowledge the existence of gay.

But it's ok for characters like Kelly and Pelessaria to ask for your d or v with no precursor whatsoever.

Yeeeaah, your garden variety double standard.

Lascivious female character can hit on your protagonist regardless of your sex, but as soon as it's a male character equally as sensual, all hell breaks loose.

Because I hadn't actually heard of most of these titles before, I decided to google them, and me being the binge personality that I am, I just read through all of Check, Please! in one sitting.

It was very enjoyable.  I'll definitely be checking out the others when I have more time.

So, thank you for mentioning them. 

My pleasure.

The thing with Check, Please!, is that although it's free to read online, the series does have two books in print (Bitty's freshman and sophomore years). BUT, they are difficult to come by, and those I've spoken to who are fans of the series, but missed out on the Kickstarter campaigns are disappointed that they got to wait for a certain time to possess them.

But thank God for crowdfunding, am I right?

Also, I have quite a list of recommendations, which I probably should compile somewhere...

Man, I'm so sorry. I wish things were that much easier, but here we are, having this conversation.

I hope your dog gets better soon, at least.

@ carloangelo, Salty Drell, thank you guys, I hope so too.

Sorry everyone for being too dramatic.