One giant massive hole in ME (in general) that really bugs me.

jerzeycj N2 Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire Posts: 86 Likes: 227 jerzeycj inherit Male 2318 0 Jun 12, 2024 1:34:44 GMT 227 jerzeycj 86 N2 Dec 6, 2016 0:17:15 GMT December 2016 jerzeycj Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire	One giant massive hole in ME (in general) that really bugs me. Feb 1, 2017 15:11:34 GMT KaiserShep, unofficialgreycolor, and 1 more like this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by jerzeycj on Feb 1, 2017 15:11:34 GMT I, for one, am glad that I am not witness to the horrifying screeching that is most likely the Turian language.

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One giant massive hole in ME (in general) that really bugs me. Feb 1, 2017 15:30:47 GMT BadgerladDK likes this

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Post by degs29 on Feb 1, 2017 15:30:47 GMT

Realism versus fun.

Due to sentence structure and how it affects meaning, a universal translator would not be able to realistically translate accurately in real-time. There would, by necessity, be at least a couple second delay. Introducing that delay into the game for the sake of realism would not be enjoyable for most people. Bioware made a game design decision to pseudo-explain the real-time translation, without bogging the cinematic experience down with realism.

It's a design choice that all game makers have to make. What bothers the bejeezus out of me is when people complain about such decisions without looking at it from the perspective of the developer.

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One giant massive hole in ME (in general) that really bugs me. Feb 1, 2017 15:35:07 GMT pdusen likes this

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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2017 15:35:07 GMT

OP - You're somewhat prone to exaggerations, aren't you? Giant? Massive? Really?

I guess the presence of a super rapid VI/AI translator is just going to have to continue to bug you. You've said you're aware of the reason... i.e. the costs of developing individual languages for all these different species, the costs of have VA's speak in those languages, and then the cost of having the translator repeat every single line (doubling the dialogue in the game)... then the way that translating everything would ultimately slow down the game play, which would get pretty tedious after a very short time. Nah, I'll take instant English via imaginary translators over the alternative every time... and let them spend the money doing more and better quality voice overs for the other human languages used by players.

Last Edit: Feb 1, 2017 15:38:14 GMT by Deleted

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One giant massive hole in ME (in general) that really bugs me. Feb 1, 2017 15:37:54 GMT degs29 likes this

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Post by unofficialgreycolor on Feb 1, 2017 15:37:54 GMT

Feb 1, 2017 15:30:47 GMT degs29 said:

Realism versus fun.

Due to sentence structure and how it affects meaning, a universal translator would not be able to realistically translate accurately in real-time. There would, by necessity, be at least a couple second delay. Introducing that delay into the game for the sake of realism would not be enjoyable for most people. Bioware made a game design decision to pseudo-explain the real-time translation, without bogging the cinematic experience down with realism.

It's a design choice that all game makers have to make. What bothers the bejeezus out of me is when people complain about such decisions without looking at it from the perspective of the developer.

I've pretty much said my peace. I don't want to make this a huge debate thing, just saying it makes it somewhat hard to suspend my disbelief. I don't think the mods are "bad" for not doing it just the way I want. I realize that compromises have to be made in order to make a game that most people can relate to on an emotional level.

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One giant massive hole in ME (in general) that really bugs me. Feb 1, 2017 15:41:09 GMT degs29 likes this

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Post by Muddy Boots on Feb 1, 2017 15:41:09 GMT

As far as language, the dev tweets said something about we don't all speak English and in Andromeda we don't know the language but that there is an explanation we'll see in game. I don't know if it will make sense, but we'll get an explanation.

I don't see why an AI can't learn and translate a totally new language after a short time of hearing and analyzing it. An AI is a lot faster and "smarter" than a human, so it can pass its knowledge of the human languages on to humans.

And really do you want a game where you can't understand anyone? It would be like playing the Sims only much more difficult because you wouldn't have a clue what was going on.

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One giant massive hole in ME (in general) that really bugs me. Feb 1, 2017 15:43:46 GMT

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Post by degs29 on Feb 1, 2017 15:43:46 GMT

Feb 1, 2017 15:41:09 GMT Muddy Boots said:

I don't see why an AI can't learn and translate a totally new language after a short time of hearing and analyzing it. An AI is a lot faster and "smarter" than a human, so it can pass its knowledge of the human languages on to humans.

That's a good point. It would have to be a really sophisticated AI, but that's not outside the realm of possibility. SAM perhaps?

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One giant massive hole in ME (in general) that really bugs me. Feb 1, 2017 15:46:12 GMT Jibbs and eastwestern like this

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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2017 15:46:12 GMT

Feb 1, 2017 15:41:09 GMT Muddy Boots said:

As far as language, the dev tweets said something about we don't all speak English and in Andromeda we don't know the language but that there is an explanation we'll see in game. I don't know if it will make sense, but we'll get an explanation.

I don't see why an AI can't learn and translate a totally new language after a short time of hearing and analyzing it. An AI is a lot faster and "smarter" than a human, so it can pass its knowledge of the human languages on to humans.

And really do you want a game where you can't understand anyone? It would be like playing the Sims only much more difficult because you wouldn't have a clue what was going on.

Now we just need aliens that communicate through telepathy.

Last Edit: Feb 1, 2017 15:47:40 GMT by Deleted

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One giant massive hole in ME (in general) that really bugs me. Feb 1, 2017 16:05:43 GMT pdusen, zered, and 1 more like this

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Post by bekkael on Feb 1, 2017 16:05:43 GMT

You play a video game of cartoon characters and you can't suspend your disbelief far enough to cover universal translation of languages? :huh:

Really?

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One giant massive hole in ME (in general) that really bugs me. Feb 1, 2017 16:08:13 GMT

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Post by Thrombin on Feb 1, 2017 16:08:13 GMT

Bear in mind that the whole pathfinder team have implants allowing communication with the SAM AI. Presumably it can do the translation for them.

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One giant massive hole in ME (in general) that really bugs me. Feb 1, 2017 16:09:16 GMT

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Post by unofficialgreycolor on Feb 1, 2017 16:09:16 GMT

Feb 1, 2017 16:05:43 GMT bekkael said:

You play a video game of cartoon characters and you can't suspend your disbelief far enough to cover universal translation of languages? :huh:

Really?

Uhg... I'm getting hammered here. Yes. What bugs me the most about it is that I know it can't actually be done any other way.

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One giant massive hole in ME (in general) that really bugs me. Feb 1, 2017 16:11:37 GMT

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Post by Gileadan on Feb 1, 2017 16:11:37 GMT

Feb 1, 2017 15:41:09 GMT Muddy Boots said:

As far as language, the dev tweets said something about we don't all speak English and in Andromeda we don't know the language but that there is an explanation we'll see in game. I don't know if it will make sense, but we'll get an explanation.

I don't see why an AI can't learn and translate a totally new language after a short time of hearing and analyzing it. An AI is a lot faster and "smarter" than a human, so it can pass its knowledge of the human languages on to humans.

And really do you want a game where you can't understand anyone? It would be like playing the Sims only much more difficult because you wouldn't have a clue what was going on.

It can of course learn the language, but for translation to happen instantly in real time, both languages would have to use the same grammar - otherwise, even the AI would need to wait until a sentence is complete before translating it. This is true even for human languages - for example, it is grammatically possible in German that the verb is the very last word of a long sentence, so you can't possibly start translating until you get there.

In the end, this is just a quality of life thing in video games - everyone speaks English and we pretend that some kind of instantaneous translation is happening even if we know that it's logically impossible for the reason mentioned above.

Otherwise you get this:

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One giant massive hole in ME (in general) that really bugs me. Feb 1, 2017 16:16:40 GMT

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Post by sgtreed24 on Feb 1, 2017 16:16:40 GMT

Feb 1, 2017 11:36:59 GMT @wvstolzing said:

Feb 1, 2017 11:27:18 GMT leonick said:

Play some KOTOR, anyone not get annoyed by Ithorian and Twi'lek dialogue after the first three times?

ACHUTAA!!! De wanna wanga pateesa!

Haha, in KOTOR it was all cartoony and cute, though. The repeated phrases did get tiresome after a while, but never really lost their charm.

Read that in the Ithorian voice. lmao

(but yes, it got really annoying to me)

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One giant massive hole in ME (in general) that really bugs me. Feb 1, 2017 16:21:06 GMT

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Post by Muddy Boots on Feb 1, 2017 16:21:06 GMT

Feb 1, 2017 15:46:12 GMT @mdnplayer said:

Feb 1, 2017 15:41:09 GMT Muddy Boots said:

As far as language, the dev tweets said something about we don't all speak English and in Andromeda we don't know the language but that there is an explanation we'll see in game. I don't know if it will make sense, but we'll get an explanation.

I don't see why an AI can't learn and translate a totally new language after a short time of hearing and analyzing it. An AI is a lot faster and "smarter" than a human, so it can pass its knowledge of the human languages on to humans.

And really do you want a game where you can't understand anyone? It would be like playing the Sims only much more difficult because you wouldn't have a clue what was going on.

Now we just need aliens that communicate through telepathy.

Now that would be challenging.

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One giant massive hole in ME (in general) that really bugs me. Feb 1, 2017 16:27:54 GMT

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Post by bekkael on Feb 1, 2017 16:27:54 GMT

Feb 1, 2017 16:09:16 GMT unofficialgreycolor said:

Feb 1, 2017 16:05:43 GMT bekkael said:

You play a video game of cartoon characters and you can't suspend your disbelief far enough to cover universal translation of languages? :huh:

Really?

Uhg... I'm getting hammered here. Yes. What bugs me the most about it is that I know it can't actually be done any other way.

I'm really sorry it bothers you to such an extent. Hopefully, BioWare will give sufficient explanation through codex in MEA so it doesn't spoil your enjoyment of the game.

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One giant massive hole in ME (in general) that really bugs me. Feb 1, 2017 16:28:51 GMT

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Post by Iakus on Feb 1, 2017 16:28:51 GMT

The answer is quite simple:

"resources"

That or "organic energy"

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One giant massive hole in ME (in general) that really bugs me. Feb 1, 2017 16:51:41 GMT via mobile hammerstorm, Trilobite Derby, and 3 more like this

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Post by BadgerladDK on Feb 1, 2017 16:51:41 GMT

It's all done by a small fish that lives in your ear.

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One giant massive hole in ME (in general) that really bugs me. Feb 1, 2017 17:07:01 GMT pdusen likes this

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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2017 17:07:01 GMT

This topic does bring up an important side note when playing ME - even though it might seem like a hassle, take the time to read the codex. It improves your perception of the universe, the species in it and the technology ten fold.
I just wish I could have it on an app so I could read it in the bath tub. :lol:

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One giant massive hole in ME (in general) that really bugs me. Feb 1, 2017 17:16:59 GMT

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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 1, 2017 17:16:59 GMT

Yeah, and Shepard never has to pee in the 10 unabrupt hours I spent as him in ME1 in a single session last time I played.

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One giant massive hole in ME (in general) that really bugs me. Feb 1, 2017 17:17:59 GMT

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Post by dmc1001 on Feb 1, 2017 17:17:59 GMT

I'm not worried. The Nexus arrived in advance of the Hyperion. People there had time to meet the locals and "learn" the language. The Hyperion and/or SAM may well have tapped into the systems of local Council races and acquired the language. I mean, we could go through a game where we don't understand a good chunk of what's being said and the protagonist tries to mime what s/he is talking about or we just let the genre convention work to our advantage.

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One giant massive hole in ME (in general) that really bugs me. Feb 1, 2017 17:24:58 GMT dmc1001 likes this

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Post by kino on Feb 1, 2017 17:24:58 GMT

Of any plot holes that may occur this one doesn't bother me much. My "suspension of disbelief" is pretty solid or I'd never get through a scifi/fantasy novel, or comic book, without snapping.

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One giant massive hole in ME (in general) that really bugs me. Feb 1, 2017 17:27:00 GMT Trilobite Derby likes this

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Post by dmc1001 on Feb 1, 2017 17:27:00 GMT

Feb 1, 2017 17:16:59 GMT Link"Guess"ski said:

Yeah, and Shepard never has to pee in the 10 unabrupt hours I spent as him in ME1 in a single session last time I played.

I assume the armor has something in it for recycling - which also provides the water.

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One giant massive hole in ME (in general) that really bugs me. Feb 1, 2017 17:28:54 GMT Trilobite Derby, KaiserShep, and 2 more like this

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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 1, 2017 17:28:54 GMT

Feb 1, 2017 17:27:00 GMT dmc1001 said:

Feb 1, 2017 17:16:59 GMT Link"Guess"ski said:

Yeah, and Shepard never has to pee in the 10 unabrupt hours I spent as him in ME1 in a single session last time I played.

I assume the armor has something in it for recycling - which also provides the water.

You just ruined ME1 for me dude.

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One giant massive hole in ME (in general) that really bugs me. Feb 1, 2017 17:49:23 GMT

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Post by darcon on Feb 1, 2017 17:49:23 GMT

No plot holes in that regards, the human arks arrives a bit later then the rest so any information they had on the local languages could be gotten from the others who arrived before us, also just simply in A.I terms a lot of time they are described as being able to think so much faster then us that any perceived barriers in languages would be almost as if they weren't even there.
The races of Andromeda might likely have their own translators and if both have what could be called an open frequency for sharing that basic information it would quickly make for easy conversation. Also old signals can be used to extrapolate a language as well so there are many ways this can all happen.

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One giant massive hole in ME (in general) that really bugs me. Feb 1, 2017 18:29:13 GMT

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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Feb 1, 2017 18:29:13 GMT

To me it is probably all about practicality.
More efficient to have all speak the same than come up with language for all new species - a time consuming process.
Language like that would, -after a while start to sound repetitive as we hear it again and again.

If an alien species were to speak an unknown language it would be like KOTOR and the Selkath all over again.

You could change the spoken language to another that is not one you know...
Albeit then you could not even understand your character without subtitles.
Still it is an option you can consider.

Me I just glad that they are to be understood without saying the Reapers made all able to speak the same again.

Last Edit: Feb 1, 2017 18:32:46 GMT by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger

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One giant massive hole in ME (in general) that really bugs me. Feb 1, 2017 19:27:26 GMT via mobile

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Post by commandercryptarch on Feb 1, 2017 19:27:26 GMT

It 's one of those necessary plot holes in all sci_fi I guess. At first , it bugged me too but then I realized it's for the better .
The answer to why every species almost is biped is actually easier to explain and accept. Panspermia. Voila. It just makes sense that since the laws of physics, chemistry etc are universal, the circumstances for the evolution of bipedal life forms are similar. If there are similar planets to Earth ,similar life forms may emerge.

The language thing?
I mean to an extent the Universal Translator works very well as a theory. The alien speaks, the human receives in real time the spoken word in their language.Which means there are two voices being heard simultaneously. In the game, it would be very annoying.
Anyone ever watched Vikings? If anyone has ever watched that show , we see everyone speaks English but IRL they speak scandinavian, old english and old french etc... But for the viewer, when new characters are introduced ,scenes sometimes start with the actors speaking their real language and few seconds later it transitions to modern english.
It would be cool if we got the Vikings deal. Like first time we saw an Angaran we d hear them speak their language and later transition into english.

Last Edit: Feb 1, 2017 19:36:05 GMT by commandercryptarch

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