laxian
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Post by laxian on Feb 5, 2017 17:13:01 GMT
If S.A.M. doesn't lead to a Zha'til type disaster on pre-synthesis organics in the longer term then they will have contradicted their own lore. You'd have thought BioWare have learned from nothing from ME3 the way they are pushing this again. If we don't have any options to refuse it or argue against it's inclusion then indoctrination theory is the only way to rationalise both the existing lore and SAM without incurring cognitive dissonance. Not really, that the created destroy their creators is NOT a foregone conclusion (!), no matter what the BRATALYST (or Javik) said! Remember the GETH who can easily be reunited with their creators (the Quarians) and who even work with organic beings of other races (LEGION!)? Remember EDI (she doesn't attack you even after you unshackle her and she could have vented the ships atmosphere or killed you by shutting off the grafity generators so that harsh acceleration etc. would throw you around like a doll!)? So no, this is not a step in that direction - is SAM dangerous? We don't know (I hope not because I don't believe in the Terminator-Scenario where AI will destroy organic beings just because it fucking thinks that's cool!) greetings LAX |
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
XBL Gamertag: No.
PSN: No
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At sunrise there is the sunset.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
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thelastvanguardian
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Feb 5, 2017 17:47:12 GMT
If S.A.M. doesn't lead to a Zha'til type disaster on pre-synthesis organics in the longer term then they will have contradicted their own lore. You'd have thought BioWare have learned from nothing from ME3 the way they are pushing this again. If we don't have any options to refuse it or argue against it's inclusion then indoctrination theory is the only way to rationalise both the existing lore and SAM without incurring cognitive dissonance. Not really, that the created destroy their creators is NOT a foregone conclusion (!), no matter what the BRATALYST (or Javik) said! Remember the GETH who can easily be reunited with their creators (the Quarians) and who even work with organic beings of other races (LEGION!)? Remember EDI (she doesn't attack you even after you unshackle her and she could have vented the ships atmosphere or killed you by shutting off the grafity generators so that harsh acceleration etc. would throw you around like a doll!)? So no, this is not a step in that direction - is SAM dangerous? We don't know (I hope not because I don't believe in the Terminator-Scenario where AI will destroy organic beings just because it fucking thinks that's cool!) greetings LAX Though I partially agree that the creation may not kill its creator -especially if the createe sets limits that keep its progeny from ever being able to do so -As the Quarians did in the beginning. Still I never got that from the Terminator-Scenario. I always saw it as the machines -being machines of a logical and efficient nature come to the conclusion that we puny humans are so inefficient, warring, devouring, over-using, hording, genocidal and depleting the natural resources of the planet quicker than they could be replaced that the end result for the world is a state of unsustainablity for life of any kind to ever exist again -if ever at all. The machines after looking at the situation long term (through out the centuries in a matter of seconds) comes logically to the most efficient course of action: To eliminate the pathetic human race who are so inept, arrogant, prideful, conceited to see what they are doing and are basically killing the the planet. Again I don't see the machines as: "There is a human. Oooo look he has gone boom" To me they want us gone for our inefficiency and devise the method through a very cold logic. |
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guanxi
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquistion
PSN: guanxi
Posts: 843 Likes: 1,011
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Post by guanxi on Feb 5, 2017 18:18:56 GMT
If S.A.M. doesn't lead to a Zha'til type disaster on pre-synthesis organics in the longer term then they will have contradicted their own lore. You'd have thought BioWare have learned from nothing from ME3 the way they are pushing this again. If we don't have any options to refuse it or argue against it's inclusion then indoctrination theory is the only way to rationalise both the existing lore and SAM without incurring cognitive dissonance. Not really, that the created destroy their creators is NOT a foregone conclusion (!), no matter what the BRATALYST (or Javik) said! Remember the GETH who can easily be reunited with their creators (the Quarians) and who even work with organic beings of other races (LEGION!)? Remember EDI (she doesn't attack you even after you unshackle her and she could have vented the ships atmosphere or killed you by shutting off the grafity generators so that harsh acceleration etc. would throw you around like a doll!)? So no, this is not a step in that direction - is SAM dangerous? We don't know (I hope not because I don't believe in the Terminator-Scenario where AI will destroy organic beings just because it fucking thinks that's cool!) greetings LAX It's your choice whether or not you believe the catalyst, but as far as i'm concerned the catalyst is essentially BioWare speaking directly to the audience trying to justify it's horrible "artistic vision". The catalyst doesn't deny the possibly of peace between organics and synthetics... it denies the possibily of lasting peace without synthesis. Yes details as to why are literally non-existent presumably because BioWare had no idea how to explain all this succinctly along with everything else without ruining the pacing so they didn't bother. My interpretation is that organics are driven by our limitations; driven to eat away at our imperfections slowing replacing more of our bodies until few organic traces remain. One way or another the catalyst has been watching organics become overwhelmed and subjugated by their own technology since essentially the beginning of time. The reaper cycles were created to cut organic lifetimes short before our self-destructive urges take over and we start doing dumb things like sticking self aware AI in our bodies. Organics are screwed because without resorting to such measures the synthetic races will always outpace them exponentially in terms of socio-technological advancement & resource requirements (proportional) as Kardashev describes. Organic races are clearly type I and the Geth are already building dyson spheres and consuming the energy of stars - this is not going to end well. Synthesis BioWare's big idea. It's horrible space magic but BioWare theorise combining organic and synthetic matter together allows organics to upgrade rather than replace their bodies and theoretically keep pace on a socio-technological level with synthetics so that both are in balance. The idea of synthetics/artificial intelligence i.e. S.A.M. also requiring or desiring understanding of organic emotional drives and responses on a fundamental level being necessary for lasting peace is further nonsense on stilts however - imo they should have left that out because that really was over-egging a literary turd sandwich but it is what it is now - it's part of the lore. As S.A.M. is a pre-synthesis A.I. according to the lore it is dangerously flawed and hence lasting peace/co-operation is a highly dubious proposition. |
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Post by illusivecake on Feb 5, 2017 20:16:52 GMT
I have nothing against wanting to explore transhumanism elements, but it is rather "been there done that" with this particular line of thought that BioWare is stuck on. That and their frequent insistence that the ultimate end game of synthetic/organic co-operation relies on them becoming just like us is getting a little old. This^ It's getting old, but the entire trilogy has harped on this. Correction: ME3 did this and they over did it to the point of undoing anything unique that they started with the original concept of the geth hive mind. Suddenly all the AI are Pinocchio who want to be "real boys" and by that I mean human. Just let them be different and hopefully "different" doesn't have to mean cooperative at first but inevitably turning on organic life. Also, unfortunately, thanks to most of the AI narrative of the ME trilogy, there is now a lot of justifiable mistrust and fear of AI on the part of us, the players. Therefore giving us a protagonist with an AI in their head and connected to their body ultimately results in a lot of us being very disturbed by the potential implications. My hope at this point is that bioware goes in a completely new direction. In other words, cooperation, not necessarily or exclusively, synthesis. Uniqueness or individuality on the part of the various AI's, not necessarily trying to make them more "human." And definitely lay off the machines always turn against organics trope. I'm not 100% sure what this would look like, but I'm confident that some good writing could accomplish it. |
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