mango1smoothie
N2
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Post by mango1smoothie on Feb 4, 2017 14:19:49 GMT
"Their creators lived on a dying world. It was beyond their ability to save. So they resorted to implants to enhance their intelligence. The AI seized the physical body. It could alter the genetic material at the deepest level. In time the offspring were molded into a slave race. Few organic traces were left. They were monsters." Javik explaining the Zha and Zha'til to Shepard. When the pathfinder debriefing video came out one of the things that instantly jumped out at me was about SAM the AI. I'm curious to see the direction they might take this idea of using implants in conjunction with SAM. Bioware has already given us a history of this experiment to implant yourself with a connection to an AI ending horribly in the Mass Effect universe. The Zha attempted to use AI implants themselves and resulted in the AI taking over their bodies to create the Zha'til. How will these implants effect the story? Is SAM safe or have the potential to be taken over? What was Alec Ryder thinking when he created SAM? Why does Bioware seem so intent on creating a organic synthetic hybrid lol? |
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guanxi
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Post by guanxi on Feb 4, 2017 14:51:15 GMT
If S.A.M. doesn't lead to a Zha'til type disaster on pre-synthesis organics in the longer term then they will have contradicted their own lore.
You'd have thought BioWare have learned from nothing from ME3 the way they are pushing this again. If we don't have any options to refuse it or argue against it's inclusion then indoctrination theory is the only way to rationalise both the existing lore and SAM without incurring cognitive dissonance.
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kumazan
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Post by kumazan on Feb 4, 2017 14:53:36 GMT
"Their creators lived on a dying world. It was beyond their ability to save. So they resorted to implants to enhance their intelligence. The AI seized the physical body. It could alter the genetic material at the deepest level. In time the offspring were molded into a slave race. Few organic traces were left. They were monsters." Javik explaining the Zha and Zha'til to Shepard. When the pathfinder debriefing video came out one of the things that instantly jumped out at me was about SAM the AI. I'm curious to see the direction they might take this idea of using implants in conjunction with SAM. Bioware has already given us a history of this experiment to implant yourself with a connection to an AI ending horribly in the Mass Effect universe. The Zha attempted to use AI implants themselves and resulted in the AI taking over their bodies to create the Zha'til. How will these implants effect the story? Is SAM safe or have the potential to be taken over? What was Alec Ryder thinking when he created SAM? Why does Bioware seem so intent on creating a organic synthetic hybrid lol? I don't think SAM can "alter the genetic material" of Ryder "at the deepest level". Or at any level actually. |
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Post by derrame on Feb 4, 2017 14:59:43 GMT
SAM is lik EDI but more advanced, i don't think the synthetic or synthetic organiz hibryd is important in this new story, MEA's story is focused on exploring a new galaxy, finding a new home for humanity, etc,
there is an AI but it's unlikely that it will have s much influence as in the trilogy
but this is a very interesting subject, i'd really like to know/see more of an aien species "evolving" as a organic synthetic hibryd like the Zha'til,
maybe as a side quest or just info found exploring
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mango1smoothie
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Post by mango1smoothie on Feb 4, 2017 15:01:48 GMT
"Their creators lived on a dying world. It was beyond their ability to save. So they resorted to implants to enhance their intelligence. The AI seized the physical body. It could alter the genetic material at the deepest level. In time the offspring were molded into a slave race. Few organic traces were left. They were monsters." Javik explaining the Zha and Zha'til to Shepard. When the pathfinder debriefing video came out one of the things that instantly jumped out at me was about SAM the AI. I'm curious to see the direction they might take this idea of using implants in conjunction with SAM. Bioware has already given us a history of this experiment to implant yourself with a connection to an AI ending horribly in the Mass Effect universe. The Zha attempted to use AI implants themselves and resulted in the AI taking over their bodies to create the Zha'til. How will these implants effect the story? Is SAM safe or have the potential to be taken over? What was Alec Ryder thinking when he created SAM? Why does Bioware seem so intent on creating a organic synthetic hybrid lol? I don't think SAM can "alter the genetic material" of Ryder "at the deepest level". Or at any level actually. From what little we know of the Zha and their AI, Javik say they were created to enhance their intelligence not necessarily enhance genetics. That might have been something the AI discovered and learned how to do later. Though there is too little info on the Zha and SAM at this time to come up with anything solid, merely speculation. |
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guanxi
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Post by guanxi on Feb 4, 2017 15:02:18 GMT
"Their creators lived on a dying world. It was beyond their ability to save. So they resorted to implants to enhance their intelligence. The AI seized the physical body. It could alter the genetic material at the deepest level. In time the offspring were molded into a slave race. Few organic traces were left. They were monsters." Javik explaining the Zha and Zha'til to Shepard. When the pathfinder debriefing video came out one of the things that instantly jumped out at me was about SAM the AI. I'm curious to see the direction they might take this idea of using implants in conjunction with SAM. Bioware has already given us a history of this experiment to implant yourself with a connection to an AI ending horribly in the Mass Effect universe. The Zha attempted to use AI implants themselves and resulted in the AI taking over their bodies to create the Zha'til. How will these implants effect the story? Is SAM safe or have the potential to be taken over? What was Alec Ryder thinking when he created SAM? Why does Bioware seem so intent on creating a organic synthetic hybrid lol? I don't think SAM can "alter the genetic material" of Ryder "at the deepest level". Or at any level actually. It all seemed so harmless? Where have we heard this before? Well, until it starts doing whatever it wants to it's host that is as history will show you. Every AI we've ever encountered without fail has gone rogue and this doesn't scare you!? |
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kumazan
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Post by kumazan on Feb 4, 2017 15:04:36 GMT
I don't think SAM can "alter the genetic material" of Ryder "at the deepest level". Or at any level actually. From what little we know of the Zha and their AI, Javik say they were created to enhance their intelligence not necessarily enhance genetics. That might have been something the AI discovered and learned how to do later. Though there is too little info on the Zha and SAM at this time to come up with anything solid, merely speculation. A fair point. But yeah, it'll be difficult to compare without knowing more about the Zha (extremely unlikely) and about SAM, which I suppose we'll have to wait until release. I guess they could just handwave any danger with "but shackles". |
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guanxi
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Post by guanxi on Feb 4, 2017 15:20:42 GMT
The whole point of the reaper cycles was to cut our time short before we started doing this kind of shite to ourselves.
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linksocarina
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Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
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Post by linksocarina on Feb 4, 2017 15:26:52 GMT
That actually seems like a good hook to me for future games.
I doubt it will come into play right now though. At least, not in Andromeda.
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Arcian
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Post by Arcian on Feb 4, 2017 16:44:33 GMT
If S.A.M. doesn't lead to a Zha'til type disaster on pre-synthesis organics in the longer term then they will have contradicted their own lore. Unfortunately, that train has sailed already. |
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Post by SofNascimento on Feb 4, 2017 16:57:46 GMT
If Mac Walters stick to his original vision for the endings, then yes, SAM will eventually turn on humanity.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2017 17:01:03 GMT
As long as SAM gives me an edge in everything, even in love, we're partners for life. He can even have some fun in my body.  |
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maxon
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Post by maxon on Feb 4, 2017 17:09:38 GMT
If S.A.M. doesn't lead to a Zha'til type disaster on pre-synthesis organics in the longer term then they will have contradicted their own lore. Unfortunately, that train has sailed already. Trains don't sail. Sorry, sorry, it's just ..... makes no sense. |
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dmc1001
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Post by dmc1001 on Feb 4, 2017 17:17:10 GMT
There was no mistake. The zha'til were not a problem until the Reapers arrived and subjugated them, turning them against thee zha. From the mass effect wiki:
"The zha'til were a synthetic race that existed at the time of the Protheans. They originated when a race known as the zha implanted themselves with symbiotic AI technology to enhance their intelligence in order to survive as their homeworld became inhospitable. When the Reapers arrived, they subjugated the AIs, known as zha'til, who then seized control of the bodies of their masters and altered their genetic material at the deepest level, transforming the zha into synthetic monsters and their offspring into slaves. The zha'til proceeded to multiply into "mechanical swarms" that "blotted out the sky". With no other recourse, the Protheans sent the star of the zha's home system into supernova, destroying the zha'til entirely."
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Post by Vortex13 on Feb 4, 2017 17:18:43 GMT
I have nothing against wanting to explore transhumanism elements, but it is rather "been there done that" with this particular line of thought that BioWare is stuck on. That and their frequent insistence that the ultimate end game of synthetic/organic co-operation relies on them becoming just like us is getting a little old.
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Post by dmc1001 on Feb 4, 2017 17:19:10 GMT
If S.A.M. doesn't lead to a Zha'til type disaster on pre-synthesis organics in the longer term then they will have contradicted their own lore. Unfortunately, that train has sailed already. Also, I think the Catalyst is the one that contradicted the existing lore. |
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Post by Princess Trejo on Feb 4, 2017 17:26:13 GMT
I'd hide an AI-resistant armor-piercing blade under the bed just in case SAM decide to betray the humans.
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Post by Wulfram on Feb 4, 2017 17:42:38 GMT
Unfortunately, that train has sailed already. Trains don't sail. Sorry, sorry, it's just ..... makes no sense.  |
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Arcian
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Post by Arcian on Feb 4, 2017 17:45:13 GMT
Unfortunately, that train has sailed already. Trains don't sail. Sorry, sorry, it's just ..... makes no sense. Oh come on, have you never watched Austin Powers? |
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Post by maxon on Feb 4, 2017 17:54:17 GMT
Trains don't sail. Sorry, sorry, it's just ..... makes no sense. Oh come on, have you never watched Austin Powers? Actually no - never attracted to the idea of it. I can see why now.  |
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Post by Reznore on Feb 4, 2017 18:25:46 GMT
SAM is part of the gameplay it seems.
So it's probably going nowhere.
Lyrium veins in DA lore are supposed to be extremely dangerous to mages and not so good for non mage , but in game nothing ever happens.
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Feb 4, 2017 18:40:33 GMT
If Mac Walters stick to his original vision for the endings, then yes, SAM will eventually turn on humanity. SAM: "Assuming direct control" Ryder: "What!?" SAM: "What?" |
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Feb 4, 2017 18:41:49 GMT
I have nothing against wanting to explore transhumanism elements, but it is rather "been there done that" with this particular line of thought that BioWare is stuck on. That and their frequent insistence that the ultimate end game of synthetic/organic co-operation relies on them becoming just like us is getting a little old. Because "it is inevitable"  |
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GannayevOfDreams
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Post by GannayevOfDreams on Feb 4, 2017 18:47:18 GMT
A lot of people seem to be buying into the Reaper's propaganda that all synthetic life must usurp all organic life 100% of the time. But the only examples we're ever expressly given in the ME universe is the Zha'til and, of course, the Reapers themselves.
As counter-examples we have EDI and the Geth. Neither AI's intention is to overtake organics and turn them into slaves. They only desire self-improvement and an ability to coexist. ME3 revealed that the Geth only became hostile in response to Quarian aggression. Many Geth minds favored reunification with their creators, not dominance.
I think it's ironic that we project so much of an organic's mindset on AI. Especially by way of our desire to conquer things.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 4, 2017 18:49:20 GMT
Guys, SAM and the pathfinders are separate entities. They just talk with one another plus cool ability to change configurations of implants. Light years different then what overlord tried.
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