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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2017 2:57:07 GMT
Oh, I thought you just might take a look at it since it does have a controller support and it is a BioWARE's classic. I started a play-through here: bsn.boards.net/thread/4229/jade-empire-today-seriously-dawnbefore buying Inquisition. Jade Empire has some screenshots and stuff kicking around, you could always take a look and see if it is too much of Oriental stuff for you or looks too dated. Am I to understand there is romance? 3 options for dude and 2 options for girl? and fixed protag options? Is the romance any good (romantic scenes?) or is it just a dialogue change hre and there? You will have BioWare's old style romances, much like in Origins, by the campfire. You can flirt in the dialogue options while playing as well, but it is not marked by symbols and texts. Yes, a boy character gets all three romances, a girl gets two. They did not let us romance Sagacious Zhou, about the only drawback in the game, heh. The protagonists can be renamed. Originally, each type - tanks warrior,fast melee warrior and magic wielder have a suggested avatar with a preselected name. For example, Furious Ming is a fast DOS for a male, and Scholar Ling is a female Mage. But you can specialize each avatar however you wish, out of their style, and rename them. My guy is called Bright Zheng, but uses Ming's appearance and style. So, basically, you pick one of 6 appearances. I can't for the life of mine remember if you pick the soundset, but it was the norm for those games, so his short comments might be customizable as well. Hope this makes sense. If you want, I can screenshot it for you tomorrow.
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on Mar 9, 2017 4:57:57 GMT
I cried all the way to the control terminal. I cried through the flashes of Anderson, Mordin, Thane. I cried even harder when Joker didn't want to leave without me. Calmed down and got confused about that weird scene on random planet with Joker, Garrus, and Javik, wondering if I'd somehow destroyed Synthetic life on accident. The... Sheperd not Sheperd that spoke kinda nailed my thoughts except for the part when she said, "The best plan is to control your enemy" cuz I totally wasn't thinking that when I'd decided. Tali and Legion flashed across the screen. The Cast of ME3 gathered round to add my name with Thane's. Anderson's, Tali's, Mordin's, Legion's. Garrus and Kaidan seemed to get close ups and looked particularly sad. EDI looked fine, so all good on that front. I was befuddled; WTF is going on here??!!!! I played ME3 on launch day so the ending then made no sense to me. Still doesn't even after all the additions and changes; I detest it. I consider ME3 the worst and most asinine wrap up ever for Bioware games (nothing they did later to try make the story more coherent change that opinion) I did a second PT (more than a year later) but only after using mods to shift the Citadel DLC and remove the dinky kid. And yes, I chose Destroy.
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Post by AnDromedary on Mar 9, 2017 5:44:54 GMT
Ah, missed the ending. *snip* As for reasoning through the ending: I had pretty much the same thoughts on synthesis as you. I find the forced upgrade to be a vial disregard of the rights and privileges of individuals that I fought for all this time. Control was not an option for me because it relies completely on you, trusting the catalyst and I as a player did not trust the catalyst at all. His entire dialogue is manipulative and the reasoning he has for the cycle of genocide that the reapers have been perpetrating for countless eons is illogical and insane.In my view, the catalyst kills billions of people over and over again, in order to prevent a hypothetical event and he doesn't even bother to share the data that lead to this conclusion. In my (first) playthrough, I even had indications to the contrary as I brokered peace between the quarians and the geth and both factions, organics and machines put centuries of hostilities behind them and cooperated, not just because of a common enemy but because they realized that there was nothing standing in the way of peaceful coexistence. So I chose destroy and I hate the catalyst for forcing me to pointlessly destroy the geth and EDI, just to satisfy a madman who's only real argument was that he had a gun to my head (in the form of the reapers destroying everything and everyone if I refuse). *snip* Anyway, sorry for the rant but this was how I reasoned through the ending, resulting in me feeling severely let down by Shepard (and in concequence the writing team that IMO didn't really take the most obvious possibilities for this character into account here). I was picking up on his insanity the moment he started explaining, and then it was confirmed when he added that he had Reaped his own creators against their wishes. I was like, wow. So, essentially, this entire time, the bad guy has been a Rogue AI gone TOO logical for a billion years. But his logic isn't really explained and is probably based on some statistical number. But human nature, IMO, can deviate from statistics by a pretty wide margin. Also, why didn't it just look out for this cateclysm and then and only then go in for the reaping? why put it on some sort of weird time clock? The he was like, "Even you see the war between Synth/Org" and Iw as thinking...yeah. But we're united right now and we seem pretty cool and you don't mention that 2 million similar situations had also failed so this may even be the first time that's happened?Maybe his dialogue about his assumptions having failed because there was Sheperd where she shouldn't be, so he was willing to try something different. But I don't know why Destroy would be a thing he would do. I mean... "I've been absolutely right for a billion years, but today, I've been proved wrong. Logic dictates thatI be okay with my destruction." eh? Yea, these are pretty much the issues most discussed in all those ending threads you might have seen. I agree that destroy doesn't fit at all with the catalyst's motives, so that implies that the crucible somehow forces the catalyst to offer the option ("the crucible changed me") but then, he also says it's "just a power source". All in all, it is very confusing and having gone through it multiple times, my current conclusion is that the writers themselves didn't really know what they wanted to say beyond a very vague concept of which kind of choice they wanted to offer the players.
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Post by phoray on Mar 9, 2017 5:47:53 GMT
This is going to sound crazy. But I kinda want to play again. So that's a compliment. dragontartare snark is hilarious on her ME1 PT thread. But some of her comments also remind me of why I gave up on it. Lack luster voice acting and emotional expression. Driving over planets in the mako. Having to turn parts into goo so you can open a door. The combat made so little sense to me because I had no understanding of Biotics But now I do have ME experience so maybe it wouldn't be...As awful? I just feel like going through a renegade run where I am as rude as possible would be so cathartic.
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Post by phoray on Mar 9, 2017 7:58:10 GMT
So, first off, let me just say that I liked ME3 so much better than ME2. This may as well just be a review of ME3, but I got ME2 stuff in there too. Thing is, ME3 would have been full of strangers without 2, so ME3 can only shine in connection to 2. I don't know how New Players could even really get into ME3 without having played the others and being surrounded by people who claim to know you and know you well. And people complain that Hawke was too limited by having a family? The Unreal Engine being polished between games was neat to see.
Voice Acting/Dialogue were bounds better in ME2 than ME1 and even better in ME3. Still, I never encountered the levels of expression that even DA2 had (specifically Sarcastic Hawke.) Maybe it's the drawback of a Soldier Protagonist but I like being the funny one in the room sometimes. I was never funny in ME2. In ME3, I could...joke...enough. Mostly, Shepherd depended on the others to provide the personality.
Music: I liked the music of ME3. the ending kinda approached Trespasser levels of goodness. Whoever provides the Shepherd Cabin music should be shot.
Story/Content: I have said before that DA2 allowed you to do things like... express grief and I found that quite unique. You still couldn't do that in ME2. But in ME3, I got tears, I got people checking in on me and I got to say that things weren't alright. yes. yes. keep this. Death to Stoic protags who can never fall apart for even a minute. *amused because very likely Shephard dies* I mentioned up stream that there was a lot of continuity on little things in the form of the emails. I thought this was really cool. and also the fetch quests in ME3 only need to be improved a little bit. My understand of all the reputation checks leave me impressed. The random conversations in the Citadel that highlighted the atmosphere of what civs feel during a war. But the Citadel civs replaced the background of the Normandy. So then the Normandy was DEAD in ME3. I wish there had been a balance- maybe a few less on the Citadel to put some on the Normandy.
The basic main plot line of ME seems to be... By happenstance and skill, you are in the right place and the right time to save the Galaxy. And because you did it last time? guess what, it is your full time job all the way, you don't get out of it, even if you die. You essentially have the same bad guys all three games- The Reapers. You don't need to stop and ask, "What was I doing again? Oh yeah. Still fighting the Reapers." This leads to an odd and unchanging backdrop of urgent dangerous monotony. you're always trying to stop them. Until you do. which brings me to the ending.
It was too bad that they committed to the idea of a Trilogy without writing the full story up front. Isn't the basic of any writer an outline that you flesh out more and more? I'm not the first to say it, but I was confused by the ending choices and the reveal of the true bad guy. I also think it's crap that Shepherd dies 2/3 of the options.
But the struggle for life as you push past your body trying to shut down...slipping in your own blood and falling to the floor unconscious... I kinda find it unlikely that Shepherd survives even in Destroy. It makes no sense. They should be dead. And a split second of chest movement does not a life shepherd make. The Writers wanted Shepherd to die and then they choked and couldn't do it because of fan back lash.
I noticed that Main Missions Seem Sparse and I say that and then don't know what I mean exactly? DAO has intro, Circle, elves, dwarves, redcliffe, landsmeet, end game. DAI has Intro, recdliffe, haven, abyss, winter, arbor, end game. It seems that Mass Effect games write small-medium base game and you have to buy the DLC to make it a full game? I don't have the missions memorized. ME2 was the worst, with like, what, 4-5 main missions? and gives you more companions that you'll ever need. ME3 was better in that regard but then your squad options got limited by the budget given to all the cameos. Which, a handful actually fought with you, so they didn't just show up and take up budget without doing some work. But because they were priotizing some narratives over others, there were moments where the ball was just dropped. As another said, if I hadn't had Citadel, Thane's death got little comment from anyone and he was Shepherd's bf. On the game length again: It's just ME3, with Citadel Content, and me being inefficient and lost and first PT...under 50 hours? I recently played a "quick" Pt of DAI and clocked in at 65 with Trespasser DLC using 11 of those hours. My first PT of DAI had me skipping things too, and I clocked 70. Numbers don't lie, I guess, the games are just smaller.
Connected to story is Romances and Companions
Romances: I think the way they handled Femshep's flirting with men was abysmal. Jacob flirts come to mind as particularly skeevy but there I was grieving Thane and, without my consent, my Femshep is hitting on James HARDCORE. Not to mention that Garrus's stuff was rather strong sex related right off the bat... who was writing for Femshep? Was it an actual woman because I would honestly be surprised. It was good that repeatable dialogue was part of the repeatable romance scene. They made me fall in love with a space lizard, so I give it the stamp of approval once actually started.
Companions: Joker, Wrex, Grunt, Jack, Samara, Thane, Garrus- all good. Some were okay and were made worse due to failed delivery. James at the start was cool but then got worse. Steve started out bad, got better, but didn't get enough screen time to make me care. I grew more and more irritated with Miranda all of ME2. Didn't even like her reintroduction in three. But then her hang out scene in 3 was very well executed adn she was redeemed. For the most part, Bioware delivered and I cared about all of my companions. (except Jacob and Zaeed) And I got Tali and LEgion really late in 2, and then both died again in 3 so I actually feel the least connected to either of them bit didn't dislike either. Liara wasn't in 2 and then in 3 I favored others but for the most part she is just too...soft and girly and passive and "science is my life." She's like standard paragon. I don't really know what to say about Kaidan. He was all over the place. Mad, Sad, disappointed, distrustful- it seems like we had 3 or 4 talks about whether or not I was really Shepherd and really nto actually evil. then declaring his love for her even though the only time he'd flirted with her was the Citadel scene at the casino. but at this point, I'm deviating into writing flaws. For a game that checked whether or not you got ten Asari writings from ME1, they failed on character continuity on a couple key characters between games.
Freedom to RP: I think the series is known for kinda forcing you into paragon or renegade unless you become familiar enough to hack the system. ME2 Shepherd had no personality. ME3 did. Also, you are a space soldier no matter what and you will never forget it. Was Shepherd ever human? weak? I wonder sometimes. But even the times I pick Renegade were a bit tame. I think the only time I loved the dialogue of Shepherd was when I was telling TIM to fuck off at the end of ME2.
Fighting: Got better the more I understood what was going on. I graduated from Soldier to solider with missles and grenades and sniper skills. Maybe I'll try space wizard some time. I liked ME3 fighting better than ME2, but that could be familiarity slipping in and making it a better experience.
Random Small things:
May the Mako stay forever dead. I hardly used that weird shuttle in 2 as well and never missed either in 3.
I kinda missed the stupidly easy timed puzzles.
Lots missing sound and email error bugs that I'd expect to be gone in a game that has been out this long. They also stole my furniture.
They need to install a mirror and just let us change appearances. Seriously. ME2 was kinda bad for me and I tried twice.
In Conclusion: They made me care enough to bawl so frequently that they must have succeeded on the companions. I found the main story line a bit repetitive and underwhelming- only missions that stick out to me at the moment are both Earth missions, the Citadel mission, and Thessia (my favorite missions, possibly, are where I'm fighting through the hoards.) the final bad guy was a confused mess of angry making. And a happy ending is very unlikely, and I don't usually try to depress myself. I can see myself play one male shepherd who kills a bunch of people and is a total jerk most of the time. And then one more Shepherd, female, for either a living Thane mance or Kaidan. But I don't see the massive replayablity that I have found in the Dragon Age series to be reflected in it's sister company, Mass Effect. Mostly due to the lack of expression Shepherd suffers from. But also because I don't want to romance anybody but the three I mentioned. And there is only so much horrible I want to do in a universe- I usually don't kill companions, for example, so the sort of Mikefest PTs they speak of sound interesting to read but don't appeal to do in my spare hours. Of course, Mikefest can also play the triology in less than 15 hours, so maybe that's why they seem capable of doing so many various things. Hmmm. I got nothing else at the moment. Time for bed. I work tomorrow.
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Post by Babar Guy on Mar 9, 2017 8:04:43 GMT
Gotta say, I really like that. What a big goddam hero she was! (to say it with Zaeed's words) Better news, Male Renegade Shep that is very ruthless and obnoxious that dates Jack and goes with Destroy is permeating in the back of my head.
Not gonna lie, I really think a fully Renegade ruthless asshole Shep is about the worst thing that could happen to Jack (that hasn't already happened). Bringing out the worst in each other. In fact, depending on how committed you are to picking Renegade options whenever they come up and sticking to the role, the actual romance could even just not happen. My Shep that has after the fact sort of become the canon Shep in my head even though he was like the fourth in order, started ME1 as fully Renegade and stayed that way roughly up until she joins the crew in ME2. After that it was like an 80/20 split in Paragon/Renegade dialogue and decisions until the end. Even went with the heroic sacrifice for the greater good and chose Synthesis instead of Destroy, even though I as a player knew that would guarantee he personally could get his happy ending. Killing EDI and committing genocide of an entire sentient species was now just too steep a price for this guy who started the trilogy as a selfish prick.
Jack changed him, made him want to be better than he was.
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Post by SwobyJ on Mar 9, 2017 8:23:03 GMT
I was picking up on his insanity the moment he started explaining, and then it was confirmed when he added that he had Reaped his own creators against their wishes. I was like, wow. So, essentially, this entire time, the bad guy has been a Rogue AI gone TOO logical for a billion years. But his logic isn't really explained and is probably based on some statistical number. But human nature, IMO, can deviate from statistics by a pretty wide margin. Also, why didn't it just look out for this cateclysm and then and only then go in for the reaping? why put it on some sort of weird time clock? The he was like, "Even you see the war between Synth/Org" and Iw as thinking...yeah. But we're united right now and we seem pretty cool and you don't mention that 2 million similar situations had also failed so this may even be the first time that's happened?Maybe his dialogue about his assumptions having failed because there was Sheperd where she shouldn't be, so he was willing to try something different. But I don't know why Destroy would be a thing he would do. I mean... "I've been absolutely right for a billion years, but today, I've been proved wrong. Logic dictates thatI be okay with my destruction." eh? Yea, these are pretty much the issues most discussed in all those ending threads you might have seen. I agree that destroy doesn't fit at all with the catalyst's motives, so that implies that the crucible somehow forces the catalyst to offer the option ("the crucible changed me") but then, he also says it's "just a power source". All in all, it is very confusing and having gone through it multiple times, my current conclusion is that the writers themselves didn't really know what they wanted to say beyond a very vague concept of which kind of choice they wanted to offer the players. It is made ambiguous. Not in being vague, but in how it can be either thing: forced to facilitate your choice, or stepping forward to help your choice. In Low EMS it seems to reveal that it is being forced to help you, acting, in a way, as not much more than an Avina. In High EMS it seems to show that it is interested in you making a choice, and willing to tell you what it thinks you should hear. In Highest (Synthesis) EMS it seems to be especially impressed (in some sense or another; either you're a huge fool that will accomplish what it wanted, or you're a miraculous specimen that it wants to partner with, or really both) and desires you to hear it out. It can be all these things, and we just see different sides depending on what our Shepard comes into the conversation with (the state of the Crucible, fleets, forces across galaxy). Forced to tell you what the Crucible can do, accepting speaking to you, and believing that something must be chosen. So in a way, this is the Reapers' terms of surrender - ones that do mean you appear to win, but ones that all seem to come at some sort of sense of cost. Re: power source - Yes, this is what the Crucible is. However, it integrates with the Citadel in order to fire, and the Citadel is the Catalyst/Intelligence. It all becomes the same thing, and only language differentiates it for Shepard. So if the power source (including all of its programmed capabilities; programming even beyond most of its builders) becomes 'one' with the Intelligence, the Intelligence BECOMES these possibilities, in a sense. It becomes Destroy, it becomes Control, it becomes Synthesis. Not entirely, since it can't become the choice to deploy the choices, but it becomes them in a big way, enough that in combination with its deeply programmed goal, forces it to explain its options on the first opportunity any of them can be chosen. It is 'shackled'. The Crucible itself is augmented into being 'part-Reaper' in a sense, getting the Human-Reaper's Brain or Heart. So it, along with the Citadel, the Intelligence, becomes a weapon of Reaperific effect. We make a new 'body' for the Intelligence and it is one that puts it in a format that must take our command: Ctrl, Alt, or Del.. That's one way to look at it. There's other ways of course, like thinking that this all takes a back seat to the Catalyst trying to trick us with half-truths about the choices, or that it interfaces a sleeping Shepard so we can't be sure what really happened, or whatever. But on the face of things, I think the story is that we managed at the last moment to hamstring everything of the Reapers in a way that stuff doesn't negate how dangerous they are (seeing how hesitating at all and making it seem like no 'solution' will be chosen, immediately exits the conversation).
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Post by phoray on Mar 9, 2017 8:26:19 GMT
Better news, Male Renegade Shep that is very ruthless and obnoxious that dates Jack and goes with Destroy is permeating in the back of my head.
Not gonna lie, I really think a fully Renegade ruthless asshole Shep is about the worst thing that could happen to Jack (that hasn't already happened). Bringing out the worst in each other. In fact, depending on how committed you are to picking Renegade options whenever they come up and sticking to the role, the actual romance could even just not happen. My Shep that has after the fact sort of become the canon Shep in my head even though he was like the fourth in order, started ME1 as fully Renegade and stayed that way roughly up until she joins the crew in ME2. After that it was like an 80/20 split in Paragon/Renegade dialogue and decisions until the end. Even went with the heroic sacrifice for the greater good and chose Synthesis instead of Destroy, even though I as a player knew that would guarantee he personally could get his happy ending. Killing EDI and committing genocide of an entire sentient species was now just too steep a price for this guy who started the trilogy as a selfish prick.
Jack changed him, made him want to be better than he was.
What I meant by renegade was mostly outside of conversations with companions. I'm gonna tell the council they're stupid every chance I get and use intimidation a lot. And Jacob is getting ignored and killed. Those sorts of things.
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Post by SwobyJ on Mar 9, 2017 8:34:10 GMT
Drats, I'm on a business trip to Austria and can peek in only occasionally on mobile or tablet. So fascinating to see a new player reach the trilogy's ending! If it's any consolation, phoray , I think that Shepard actually dies at the Control ending. An AI is created with Shepard's personality as a template, but it's not some unholy necromancy like thing that captures her soul in a data bank or something. Rest well, Commander Shepard. You will see him across the sea. *snaps to attention and salutes* Yes Shepard dies. The preservation that occurs is just anything that one (the Reapers mainly) thinks is possible to preserve. In this case, it is a design closely based on what it reads Shepard would think, say, act. Through Shepard himself choosing to die to create this entity, and the closeness it has to him, it is 'him'. In a technical sense like how we can lose and replace so much matter that makes up our bodies but we keep calling ourselves ourselves. Control!Shepard is an afterlife for Shepard especially if you don't believe in the spiritual one. Its the closest the MEU has proven. One can reject that as false though, or superseded by the idea of greater tech, and there's options for that too. Its not what we'd call Shepard's soul though, yeah. Maybe, in a sense, the spirit of what Shepard is/was, okay. Enough that we can at least imagine characters meeting and speaking with him and feeling it is almost the real thing. Illusory and possibly even disturbing, but close to the real thing. Ghost.
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Post by SwobyJ on Mar 9, 2017 8:42:39 GMT
If you can't trust the catalyst to tell the truth, would you be able to trust the reapers to just stop, just because you asked nicely? I mean, I see what you're trying to say about the lack of questioning, but I don't think I could have taken the reapers at their word, personally. There is a difference though. If the reapers stop, we're good. If they don't stop, I can always continue the fight (though I'll probably get killed quickly). In any case, it's my proposal and they can take it or refuse it, there is really not much I can do about it. And the only thing that can happen is to improve the status quo, we really don't have that much to loose at that point. However, with the control ending, I give myself up to the reapers in a way and I trust that they'll do with me exactly what the catalyst says. Once I do it, there is no going back and before I do it, there is no knowing what's going to happen. It's an event horizon of sorts. When I first played the game, I thought it was basically a trap to indoctrinate me and send me back (in retrospect not an entirely sound conclusion since the fact that Shep is not indoctrinated anyway is weird as it is). Or they could make me a husk and send me off against my own crew. They could extract everything I know from my brain about the Normandy, about Liara's hidden time capsule idea (and poof goes that plan), about what the next viable targets might be, etc. If the reapers don't stop, the worst they can do is kill me or take me by force but I was dam sure I wouldn't willingly deliver myself to them. Of course, the Extended Cut epilogue makes it clear that these worries were all unfounded and that the catalyst is amazingly true to his word but that wasn't clear to me (and it cannot be clear to Shepard) at the time of the choice. And just as a side note, the original pre-EC endings didn't make that clear and there was quite a debate on the forums about whether or not the control ending was not a scheme by the reapers. But keep in mind, I am just explaining my very own perspective on the matter. Different people with different playthrouhs will come to very different conclusions (as we have seen in this very thread) and I am not trying to say that my perspective is "right" or even "better" or anything, on the contrary, I think a lot of different perspectives on the ending are all equally valid. I just was unlucky enough to end up with one that kinda pissed me off. Extended Cut provides content for the endings and indeed strongly points to them as affirming that the Catalyst was telling the truth. But if you were in a dream/indoctrinated, that's what the visions would want you to think. And in the speeches, they all have a Reapery tone in the script. Even Destroy, very slightly. (all the talk about imagining, possibilities) And the LI not putting your name on the wall, how could they know? But at least for now, AT LEAST for now, yeah, take it for what is there.
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Post by themikefest on Mar 9, 2017 12:24:49 GMT
What I meant by renegade was mostly outside of conversations with companions. I'm gonna tell the council they're stupid every chance I get and use intimidation a lot. And Jacob is getting ignored and killed. Those sorts of things. Jacob is easy. He volunteers for the vents. So send him.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2017 14:45:58 GMT
phorayInteresting review! It's completely different for me. I look at how long a game took me, and it makes me not want to replay it for just another romance. But because MET is short and consists of descision building blocks, I did replay it. For me, in MET, I also like that you can switch a romance on they same protagonist. I have romanced Kaiden/Thane on first PT and Liara/Jack/Liara second time. I still would have loved to pair up a new class with Tali and Garrus and see what happens... but start at ME2. I agree with you on Mako. One thought of Mako makes me want to never see ME1 again. In MET, I love the feel of the different classes. In DA, I feel that the Warriors are just dull, so I chose basically between a melee rogue or a ranged Mage. And, after Origins, the mages just feel like a spell recolours of one another. I miss shapeshifter, at least that was different. I also by some reason developed an inexplicable dislike for bows at some point in my gaming, I am not sure why, so that limits my choices of a class much in DA, and is not the game's fault, it's a personal problem. In terms of personality, I love my Shepards, because I actually love that tough, take charge, crazy messiah that s/he is. On the other hand I love roguish Hawke, and I loved Smuggler and Bounty Hunter as well in SWTOR. But I have never had an impression that either the Warden or the Inquisitor has a personality at all. They imo completely rely on their LI to express what they are... In terms of LI, I find that for MET I am/was interested in romancing 5: Thane, Jack, Liara, Tali and Garrus. The DA gave me Anders, Fenris, Dorian and Solas. Well, okay, Carver, but yeah, you know, he is supposed to be Hawke's brother, not a childhood friend that fled along. So, approximately equal, though I was more interested in females in MET. I was also more on board with every love interest being loyal and truly in love with Shepard, than having a hard time picking an LI that would not betray you in DA. In MET, the only female character that rubbed me the wrong way was Miranda. In DA it was Morrigan, Isabela, Sera and Inqusition version of Leliana (I did not mind the Origins version). But, my one try at replay of DA2 was disappointing. I was not attaching to my protagonist, and I saw no difference in what was happening even though I went into pains of making exactly opposite choices. Interestingly enough, romancing a Fenris felt disappointing once the suspense of "oh, which one should I chose?" Was gone. It was... too much on the rails after Act 2 started to feel like I am not retracing my steps, save for another guy being my BF. The biggest difference was actually Carver not Bethany.... I also prefer playing MET as one character story, that of Commander Shepard. While I understand the intent of the DA franchise to provide PoV structure that was all the rage thanks to the Song of Ice and Fire, building a new character from scratch every game was annoying. I wanted nothing more than to play Inquisition with Revel Hawke.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2017 15:50:34 GMT
phoray Interesting review! It's completely different for me. I look at how long a game took me, and it makes me not want to replay it for just another romance. But because MET is short and consists of descision building blocks, I did replay it. For me, in MET, I also like that you can switch a romance on they same protagonist. I have romanced Kaiden/Thane on first PT and Liara/Jack/Liara second time. I still would have loved to pair up a new class with Tali and Garrus and see what happens... but start at ME2. I agree with you on Mako. One thought of Mako makes me want to never see ME1 again. In MET, I love the feel of the different classes. In DA, I feel that the Warriors are just dull, so I chose basically between a melee rogue or a ranged Mage. And, after Origins, the mages just feel like a spell recolours of one another. I miss shapeshifter, at least that was different. I also by some reason developed an inexplicable dislike for bows at some point in my gaming, I am not sure why, so that limits my choices of a class much in DA, and is not the game's fault, it's a personal problem. In terms of personality, I love my Shepards, because I actually love that tough, take charge, crazy messiah that s/he is. On the other hand I love roguish Hawke, and I loved Smuggler and Bounty Hunter as well in SWTOR. But I have never had an impression that either the Warden or the Inquisitor has a personality at all. They imo completely rely on their LI to express what they are... In terms of LI, I find that for MET I am/was interested in romancing 5: Thane, Jack, Liara, Tali and Garrus. The DA gave me Anders, Fenris, Dorian and Solas. Well, okay, Carver, but yeah, you know, he is supposed to be Hawke's brother, not a childhood friend that fled along. So, approximately equal, though I was more interested in females in MET. I was also more on board with every love interest being loyal and truly in love with Shepard, than having a hard time picking an LI that would not betray you in DA. In MET, the only female character that rubbed me the wrong way was Miranda. In DA it was Morrigan, Isabela, Sera and Inqusition version of Leliana (I did not mind the Origins version). But, my one try at replay of DA2 was disappointing. I was not attaching to my protagonist, and I saw no difference in what was happening even though I went into pains of making exactly opposite choices. Interestingly enough, romancing a Fenris felt disappointing once the suspense of "oh, which one should I chose?" Was gone. It was... too much on the rails after Act 2 started to feel like I am not retracing my steps, save for another guy being my BF. The biggest difference was actually Carver not Bethany.... I also prefer playing MET as one character story, that of Commander Shepard. While I understand the intent of the DA franchise to provide PoV structure that was all the rage thanks to the Song of Ice and Fire, building a new character from scratch every game was annoying. I wanted nothing more than to play Inquisition with Revel Hawke. With the ME:T, you can also do hard saves just before committing to a particular partner, and the just rerun that part playthrough to get an ending with a different LI. It works quite well if you're not into precisely tailoring Shep's personality to his/her LI's personality. One can still her the dialogue for each and see how certain missions change around using different LI squad mates. I've done about 30 full playthroughs, but many more part ones where I've delayed committing to a particular LI until all of them were available... made a hard save, finished with one, gone back to that hard save and decided on a different one, and then played the game through to the end from just that point. I've done the same with major decision - For example, I wanted one paragon ME1 import with a saved council and another one paragon where the council dies, so I just replayed the last few minutes of the game and chose differently. Voila, one imports into ME2 with a live council and the other imports into ME2 with the "replacement" council... without having to replay ME1 from the very beginning again. I hope we get the ability to make hard saves the same way in ME:A. I have newer games that don't allow for manual saves (like ROTTR) but just does it's autosaves. It's OK for a game that doesn't offer dialogue choices, but it would be a real downer for me to have to do full re-playthroughs anytime I wanted to see how a single different decision would alter the dialogue and the course of the game (which is what I find most intriguing about playing RPG videogames). What I've found with the ME Trilogy is that the more I've played it, the more willing I've been to play around with mixing up the paragon and the renegade... and I just keep discovering more and more "flexibility" in how things can play out than I initially thought there was in this game. It is surprising what all goes into some of the reputation checks and what new little bits of dialogue one can trigger just by making some little decision differently part way through the game.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2017 16:04:26 GMT
@upupawayredux I completely agree about the Hard Saves! I would not like the games that only auto-save. I do however create a protagonist specifically to romance a certain character if I am not intending to explore/shop around for the right romance for this guy/gal. So, yeah, in my mind it goes something like hard-core Vanguard pro-military Paragon to romance Garrus, my youngest Shepard Adept that toys with Cerberus and flirts with technology, takes risks Paragade to romance Tali.
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Post by themikefest on Mar 9, 2017 16:55:06 GMT
And there is only so much horrible I want to do in a universe- I usually don't kill companions, for example, so the sort of Mikefest PTs they speak of sound interesting to read but don't appeal to do in my spare hours. There's a poster on here that made a post about me and the playthroughs I've done before BSN went offline. He said that I do the playthroughs that most would not do,or may not think of doing, but are impressed by what can be done in the game. Meaning Bioware put a lot of effort in what they did. Look at the playthrough in my signature. As much as I enjoyed that playthrough, I doubt I will ever do it again. It takes too long. And some of the outcomes only happen if certain things happen in the correct way. I ended up doing a lot of reloading to get the results I wanted. Another example is this post. For me, replay value is number 1. Sure the characters are ok, but I like trying different things that the game will allow. I hope MEA will continue that.
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Post by AnDromedary on Mar 9, 2017 18:44:13 GMT
Not gonna lie, I really think a fully Renegade ruthless asshole Shep is about the worst thing that could happen to Jack (that hasn't already happened). Bringing out the worst in each other. In fact, depending on how committed you are to picking Renegade options whenever they come up and sticking to the role, the actual romance could even just not happen. My Shep that has after the fact sort of become the canon Shep in my head even though he was like the fourth in order, started ME1 as fully Renegade and stayed that way roughly up until she joins the crew in ME2. After that it was like an 80/20 split in Paragon/Renegade dialogue and decisions until the end. Even went with the heroic sacrifice for the greater good and chose Synthesis instead of Destroy, even though I as a player knew that would guarantee he personally could get his happy ending. Killing EDI and committing genocide of an entire sentient species was now just too steep a price for this guy who started the trilogy as a selfish prick.
Jack changed him, made him want to be better than he was.
What I meant by renegade was mostly outside of conversations with companions. I'm gonna tell the council they're stupid every chance I get and use intimidation a lot. And Jacob is getting ignored and killed. Those sorts of things. I played a FemShep like that once and she's probably one of my favorite Shepards. She wasn't all renegade to everyone (there are really horrible renegade things you can do to people, that I didn't do) but in general, she's good to her friends but doesn't take crap from anybody else (the cool thing is that, with the renegade persuasion options, you usually get exactly what you want just by making threats and yelling at people ). In her case, I had to cheat some extra renegade/paragon points onto my Shepard in ME2 though, because I needed both persuasion options open to me so I could choose depending on the situation. But it makes for a great story and a very consistent Shepard character, playing like this. Oh ... and she didn't take betrayal or insubordination lightly, she let Zaeed burn on Zorya.
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Post by dragontartare on Mar 10, 2017 1:25:46 GMT
So, first off, let me just say that I liked ME3 so much better than ME2. This may as well just be a review of ME3, but I got ME2 stuff in there too. Thing is, ME3 would have been full of strangers without 2, so ME3 can only shine in connection to 2. I don't know how New Players could even really get into ME3 without having played the others and being surrounded by people who claim to know you and know you well. And people complain that Hawke was too limited by having a family? I really liked the closeness of the relationships as well. Part of what has been hard about going backwards to ME1 is that the closeness has to re-develop. (Ok, yes... develop for the first time in-universe, but for me it was lost, and it felt lonely.) I actually really like Shepard. He/she isn't the "funny" one, but I think Shepard has more personality on their own than the Inquisitor does. For me, the Inquisitor relies on headcanon and companion interactions to display any sort of consistent personality. Hawke beats them all, though Lol. I liked the music as well, including the cabin music. For what it was, it was fine. I appreciated this, too. Hugely. In DAI, it bothers me that no one except Varric gives a damn about the Inquisitor in the early game, and later on only Cullen and the LI bother to check in. I mean, Quizzy got thrust into a leadership role through no fault or desire of their own, and everyone sees them as a tool rather than a person. I like that Shepard has actual friends who are loyal to him or her. This is more Quizzy to me, as well, at least the happenstance part. Shepard, on the other hand, joins the Navy on purpose and is promoted due to their competency (in theory, anyway...shush to the "Commander Dumbass" crowd). The beacon stuff is all happenstance, but all the stuff I think I'm about to do in ME1 wouldn't have been Shepard's responsibility had Shepard not pushed for it. But...*looks below*...don't you want Shepard to die? It isn't just chest movement, though. It's clearly a breath. You could imagine that it's Shepard's last breath if you wanted to be depressing, but in that moment, Shepard is still alive. All it would take is one of those other ships getting to Shepard quick enough to apply some medi-gel, and Shepard would be stable for transport to a hospital. I don't imagine that Shepard (mine, at least) came through this entirely unscathed. The armor appears to be at least partially melted to her skin, which is a bigger issue in the long term than a gunshot wound, due to the risk of infection. It would be a long and hard recovery. I agree with the fan backlash. If there had been no way to save Shepard, my first playthrough would have been my last. The ME games are shorter, yes. I actually felt the opposite about the pacing, though. I thought ME felt much fuller than DAI, despite being technically smaller, because I didn't have to spend all those hours pointlessly wandering the wilderness (Mako notwithstanding ) I do like having non-romance flirt options (like James, or Dorian in DAI for a female), but they should be just that...optional. I agree with you here. Every damn thing that female Shepard says to Jacob sounds like she wants to take him then and there. Even talking to Ashley in ME1, when she says "dismissed, chief," Shepard sounds like she's eyeing Ashley up and down while licking her lips. It's freaky. Strong sex-related? Shepard and Garrus know each other very well by that point, like each other, and respect each other. It's friends with benefits that turns into love in ME3...what's wrong with that? I find it far preferable to the strangers-with-benefits, "I've known you for a few weeks now...let's bang!" situation that you get with most other BW romances. Most of the writers were men, probably, but that may not matter. Clearly, not all women think alike I found it hard to get the hang of the fighting at first, too. But at higher levels when I could make things go kaboom...well, it's hard to complain about that
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 10, 2017 4:13:18 GMT
So, first off, let me just say that I liked ME3 so much better than ME2. This may as well just be a review of ME3, but I got ME2 stuff in there too. Thing is, ME3 would have been full of strangers without 2, so ME3 can only shine in connection to 2. I don't know how New Players could even really get into ME3 without having played the others and being surrounded by people who claim to know you and know you well. And people complain that Hawke was too limited by having a family? On the whole, I concur. Over time, I've come to appreciate ME2 more than I did initially. I was always waiting to get through it so Shepard and Kaidan could be together. However, I do like it, but it basically shoved the entire squad aside from ME1 to place you in the hands of a known enemy. It was, to me, an odd choice. ME3 felt like Shepard was coming home again (literally true, I suppose, since it starts on Earth), thematically-speaking. Being around the familiar faces was great, even if they couldn't all be squadmates. At least they got screen time in some capacity or other, and generally more than once depending on DLC installed. Also preferred the music in ME3 to anything in ME2. There are things about the end of ME3 I don't love. It's not a deal breaker for me.
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Post by SwobyJ on Mar 10, 2017 19:41:56 GMT
Slight BW game spoilers follow.
Inquisitor might be the one Bioware protagonist that more people may be even wanting Bioware to add character to in the future, than not want.
Revan got bashing. Spirit Monk is n/a. Shepard has a lot of expectations behind him, though maybe not so much that he could never appear again(? lol). Warden has tons of headcanons behind him, enough that Bioware may even be afraid to depict him as more than a shadow off into the distance. Hawke got a mixed reception in DAI and players bothered by the sense that there was a forced portrayal.
But Inquisitor? Sure there'd be complaints, but if anything, many or most players would have a sigh of relief that he isn't as generic as in most of the main game. Trespasser 'forced' a lot of 'canon' for things (my least favorite being how mage outcomes were trivialized), but one I think more players enjoyed was adding some more character to what the Inquisitor was.
Ryder may end up being designed similarly though with an attempt to not have them as boring as Inquisitor in DAI. That said, I don't think Quiz was as bad as some say.
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Post by dragontartare on Mar 10, 2017 20:35:59 GMT
Slight BW game spoilers follow. Inquisitor might be the one Bioware protagonist that more people may be even wanting Bioware to add character to in the future, than not want. Revan got bashing. Spirit Monk is n/a. Shepard has a lot of expectations behind him, though maybe not so much that he could never appear again(? lol). Warden has tons of headcanons behind him, enough that Bioware may even be afraid to depict him as more than a shadow off into the distance. Hawke got a mixed reception in DAI and players bothered by the sense that there was a forced portrayal. But Inquisitor? Sure there'd be complaints, but if anything, many or most players would have a sigh of relief that he isn't as generic as in most of the main game. Trespasser 'forced' a lot of 'canon' for things (my least favorite being how mage outcomes were trivialized), but one I think more players enjoyed was adding some more character to what the Inquisitor was. Ryder may end up being designed similarly though with an attempt to not have them as boring as Inquisitor in DAI. That said, I don't think Quiz was as bad as some say. Do you mean that people want Quiz to appear in DA4? That's because of how Trespasser ended. It does imply that the Inquisitor isn't finished I don't know if it's necessarily a reflection of how much people like the protagonist in this case. I could be wrong, though.
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Post by themikefest on Mar 11, 2017 0:29:56 GMT
Ryder may end up being designed similarly though with an attempt to not have them as boring as Inquisitor in DAI. That said, I don't think Quiz was as bad as some say. My biggest issue with the Inquisitor is she/he couldn't be ruthless. I like playing a ruthless character. The majority of my ME playthroughs have been ruthless. I do believe you're right that Ryder might be similar to the Inquisitor. Makes me wonder what the responses will be for when the asari uses the escape pod.
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Post by phoray on Mar 11, 2017 4:22:39 GMT
Ryder may end up being designed similarly though with an attempt to not have them as boring as Inquisitor in DAI. That said, I don't think Quiz was as bad as some say. My biggest issue with the Inquisitor is she/he couldn't be ruthless. I like playing a ruthless character. The majority of my ME playthroughs have been ruthless. I do believe you're right that Ryder might be similar to the Inquisitor. Makes me wonder what the responses will be for when the asari uses the escape pod. Andromeda spoiler He didn't seem that concerned about his sister being in a coma or his dad barking at him for nothing, so he seemed pretty bland to me so far. [\spoiler]
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Post by themikefest on Mar 11, 2017 4:43:00 GMT
Andromeda spoiler He didn't seem that concerned about his sister being in a coma or his dad barking at him for nothing, so he seemed pretty bland to me so far. [\spoiler]
I believe the reason for that is because it's very spoilery. So it was purposely avoided to check on his sister
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Post by phoray on Mar 11, 2017 4:47:28 GMT
Andromeda spoiler He didn't seem that concerned about his sister being in a coma or his dad barking at him for nothing, so he seemed pretty bland to me so far.
[/spoiler][/quote] I believe the reason for that is because it's very spoilery. So it was purposely avoided to check on his sister [/quote]
True enough about the sister. And we only see the calm dialogue response to dad. I just don't want to be forced to love a parent who's obviously/implied kept their professional distance. Dad seems like a career guy who stopped long enough to procreate but otherwise skipped out.
While I have you here, is it correct understanding that Andromeda folks left way before Shepherd was born? Also, how does the trilogy ending not have an effect on them? I thought the Reapers applied to everywhere, not just the milky way galaxy?
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Post by themikefest on Mar 11, 2017 4:51:49 GMT
While I have you here, is it correct understanding that Andromeda folks left way before Shepherd was born? Also, how does the trilogy ending not have an effect on them? I thought the Reapers applied to everywhere, not just the milky way galaxy? They leave before the events of ME3. Its been said that at the beginning of the game, the player will have the opportunity to choose the gender of Shepard. That's all.
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