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Post by colfoley on Feb 11, 2017 0:46:07 GMT
,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
– DICE (the company that created Frostbite, the game's engine) helped too, they pitched in with the AI (since the AI in Battlefield is used to sandbox design). Somehow I doubt the combat AI can control your squad mates any better than in DA:I
– Frostbite was designed for FPS, which helps to make combat more spectacular than in the trilogy. Useless pyrotechnics that are overdone.
– BioWare noticed the complaints about facial animations and lip-syncing, this is their main focus for all the time that's left until launch. How could they not be aware of this? Maybe mgt spent more time tweeting than managing.
– ... other games that have that have been more successful [with regard to storytelling], like The Witcher III ... Glad to see they are willing to include successful side quests mechanics from other sources.
– The playable area is four times bigger than Mass Effect 3's Does this mean 4x bigger per planetary map or is it total area in ME3 vs total area in ME:A ?
– ...Fighting is faster and less methodical.... Obviously no tactics and a free-for-all bar-room fights equivalent. How the AI is better is beyond me.
– No load screens on the Tempest Load screens everywhere except in the Tempest. Be prepared for 30+ secs of wait time.
This is confirmation of what I already knew or reasonably postulated. FIFA helping is new to me.
Playing through the original trilogy this was a problem. Especially in Mass Effect 3 where you had the fire explosions that could cover the entire screen and blot out your enemies left right and center especially if you were sniping or were a vanguard Granted the biotic and tech stuff was a little low key in comparison but even then I have had all sorts of explosions which has kept me from effectively dealing with an opponent. Though on the flip side I get the feeling that sometimes this is what actual combat is like.
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 11, 2017 0:46:24 GMT
Hnestly the occasional clunky animation is just the risk of us playing games as opposed to watching movies. Especially in BioWare games. Never forget the whole 'Inquisitor clunkily kicks that guy out of the window at the Winter Palace' thing ,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
There is no excuse for a triple AAA game, imo.
Every rpg has not perfect animations. Even TW3 isn't comparable to the best games in other fields in this regards. Bioware has to get better, but their target range aren't games like Uncharted.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 11, 2017 0:47:16 GMT
Hnestly the occasional clunky animation is just the risk of us playing games as opposed to watching movies. Especially in BioWare games. Never forget the whole 'Inquisitor clunkily kicks that guy out of the window at the Winter Palace' thing ,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
There is no excuse for a triple AAA game, imo.
But its been a big part of tripple A gaming for a long while now and its not just BioWare that is guilty of this though they are perhaps the most noteworthy examples of it.
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Post by Sartoz on Feb 11, 2017 0:50:09 GMT
Sartoz : 1)It's not THAT Hard to do a better job then DAI's AI, regardless of how good it'll be. Being cautious is good, but you're saying as it's impossible to do better. 2) What AI has to do with the combat being less methodical? The latter can Be true with better AI. ,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
DA:O and DA2 were much better at it. Then FB3 enters the picture and amateurs took over. The combat overhaul in DA:I did not help either. I anticipate clueless squad mates in ME:A. If not, I will be pleasantly surprised and pleased. In the meantime, my experience with FB3+DA:I governs my expectations.
The forthcoming game play video ought to put this to rest one way or another.
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 11, 2017 0:54:13 GMT
Sartoz : 1)It's not THAT Hard to do a better job then DAI's AI, regardless of how good it'll be. Being cautious is good, but you're saying as it's impossible to do better. 2) What AI has to do with the combat being less methodical? The latter can Be true with better AI. ,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
DA:O and DA2 were much better at it. Then FB3 enters the picture and amateurs took over. The combat overhaul in DA:I did not help either. I anticipate clueless squad mates in ME:A. If not, I will be pleasantly surprised and pleased. In the meantime, my experience with FB3+DA:I governs my expectations.
The forthcoming game play video ought to put this to rest one way or another. That had little to do with the Frosbite (by that I mean they didn't have time to get enough accostumed with the engine to build what I'm saying). The default AI, without tactics, sucked in DAO and DA2 too. What made it work was the tactics system which was much better compared to DAI. This is either because they didn't have time, as I said, or for an intentional choice to streamlining the system. AI wasn't much better in the OT as well. So they can only improve on that, and the Frotsbite isn't that limit to it, or other things, as you implied many times.
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Post by Sartoz on Feb 11, 2017 0:54:22 GMT
,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
There is no excuse for a triple AAA game, imo.
Every rpg has not perfect animations. Even TW3 isn't comparable to the best games in other fields in this regards. Bioware has to get better, but their target range aren't games like Uncharted. ,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
Quite true. Except... the closer you get to animating real faces the more jarring it becomes when facial animations fails.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 11, 2017 0:55:38 GMT
,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
DA:O and DA2 were much better at it. Then FB3 enters the picture and amateurs took over. The combat overhaul in DA:I did not help either. I anticipate clueless squad mates in ME:A. If not, I will be pleasantly surprised and pleased. In the meantime, my experience with FB3+DA:I governs my expectations.
The forthcoming game play video ought to put this to rest one way or another. That had little to do with the Frosbite (by that I mean they didn't have time to get enough accostumed with the engine to build what I'm saying). The default AI, without tactics, sucked in DAO and DA2 too. What made it work was the tactics system which was much better compared to DAI. This is either because they didn't have time, as I said, or for an intentional choice to streamlining the system. AI wasn't much better in the OT as well. So they can only improve on that, and the Frotsbite isn't that limit to it, or other things, as you implied many times. *equips Garrus with a sniper rifle...Garrus charges a Ravager* Garrus! *Garrus dies*
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 11, 2017 0:58:21 GMT
Every rpg has not perfect animations. Even TW3 isn't comparable to the best games in other fields in this regards. Bioware has to get better, but their target range aren't games like Uncharted. ,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
Quite true. Except... the closer you get to animating real faces the more jarring it becomes when facial animations fails.
It can still be improved. You just don't have to expect the same result as other games. That had little to do with the Frosbite (by that I mean they didn't have time to get enough accostumed with the engine to build what I'm saying). The default AI, without tactics, sucked in DAO and DA2 too. What made it work was the tactics system which was much better compared to DAI. This is either because they didn't have time, as I said, or for an intentional choice to streamlining the system. AI wasn't much better in the OT as well. So they can only improve on that, and the Frotsbite isn't that limit to it, or other things, as you implied many times. *equips Garrus with a sniper rifle...Garrus charges a Ravager* Garrus! *Garrus dies* Yep, the only way squadmates are useful in the OT is by spamming powers and be meatshields, except Garrus with the Typhoon, and that is more related to his weapon bonus then the AI.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 11, 2017 1:09:01 GMT
,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
Quite true. Except... the closer you get to animating real faces the more jarring it becomes when facial animations fails.
It can still be improved. You just don't have to expect the same result as other games. *equips Garrus with a sniper rifle...Garrus charges a Ravager* Garrus! *Garrus dies* Yep, the only way squadmates are useful in the OT is by spamming powers and be meatshields, except Garrus with the Typhoon, and that is more related to his weapon bonus then the AI. i tend to use them for defense strippers.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 11, 2017 1:15:25 GMT
*equips Garrus with a sniper rifle...Garrus charges a Ravager* Garrus! *Garrus dies* Yep, the only way squadmates are useful in the OT is by spamming powers and be meatshields, except Garrus with the Typhoon, and that is more related to his weapon bonus then the AI.
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Post by Sartoz on Feb 11, 2017 1:44:15 GMT
,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
DA:O and DA2 were much better at it. Then FB3 enters the picture and amateurs took over. The combat overhaul in DA:I did not help either. I anticipate clueless squad mates in ME:A. If not, I will be pleasantly surprised and pleased. In the meantime, my experience with FB3+DA:I governs my expectations.
The forthcoming game play video ought to put this to rest one way or another. That had little to do with the Frosbite (by that I mean they didn't have time to get enough accostumed with the engine to build what I'm saying). The default AI, without tactics, sucked in DAO and DA2 too. What made it work was the tactics system which was much better compared to DAI. This is either because they didn't have time, as I said, or for an intentional choice to streamlining the system. AI wasn't much better in the OT as well. So they can only improve on that, and the Frotsbite isn't that limit to it, or other things, as you implied many times. ,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
Hm... some history.
Unfortunately, it had everything to do with the new engine. The FB game editor was designed as a FPS and lacked the necessary RPG elements that DA:I required. Thus, according to Bio, the Edmonton studio spent 5 man years of work to develop them. That was the reason for the first 1 year delay. So, if I harp on its limitations is because of past history. BTW, if you go and read the old BSN archives, you'll come across this fact( ie: missing RPG).
Nevertheless, having said the above, it seems that the Montreal studio recognized their limitations with the engine and the other studios chipped in. This should mean a quality game. However, regarding the AI, I'll believe it when I see it.
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Post by unofficialgreycolor on Feb 11, 2017 1:49:07 GMT
Play (UK), out since january 26th, spoke with Mac Walters and Fabrice Condominas.– The Need for Speed team helped with the Nomand, but they also got help from the PGA Tour (you know, golf) team with 'environments and the quality of the vegetation of the grass'. – DICE (the company that created Frostbite, the game's engine) helped too, they pitched in with the AI (since the AI in Battlefield is used to sandbox design).– Frostbite was designed for FPS, which helps to make combat more spectacular than in the trilogy. – Even the FIFA team helped! ME:A is using animation systems from the football game. 'It really goes both ways.'
– The FIFA expertise came in handy because for the first time ever BioWare did 'full perfomance capture'. So they captured the movement of multiple actors at the same time. And since people can change gender and party member, they had to re-record those scenes over and over in different combinations.
– Mac Walters thinks the character design is great, thanks to Frostbite. 'The realism level in them is phenomenal and we're going to continue to work on that and polish that in the coming days.'– No VR add-on is currently planned for Mass Effect: Andromeda – BioWare noticed the complaints about facial animations and lip-syncing, this is their main focus for all the time that's left until launch.
– Mac Walters says they've learned from Inquisitions' open world and many of the same developers from that game work on Andromeda's open worlds. 'I think they had some good lessons that were learned after it was shipped about how to do an open world properly. They got some fan reaction and we’ve taken that into account.'
– BioWare is hoping to make its side missions and stories feel more connected to the main narrative while also offering a satisfying, self-contained experience: 'Each of those planets has its own big choice that you have to make on.'
– 'We’ve really looked at other games that have that have been more successful [with regard to storytelling], like The Witcher III lately, as far as quest density and how much the quests are intertwined to the critical story. That’s something that we’re pushing much harder on this game.'
– While there’s some intensity to the main narrative thread of Andromeda, there is not any apparent time pressure on your quest, so wandering around the galaxy doesn't feel strange.
– For every species that is in the game, you will see both male and female characters (unlike in most of the original games). – Why did some split off from the Initiative? Walters: 'I will give you a hint, if you’ve been following some of the news about the recent novels that have come out then you’ll notice that the very first one is called Nexus Uprising. There’s a little clue there.' – Mac Walters might have a major role in the development of the Mass Effect movie. Unknown if it will tie in with the Shepard trilogy or the new setting in Andromeda. – You can create settlements. 'Find a suitable planet and on that planet a good spot and you can create your own little communities scattered through the systems.' There is a limit, because there is a limit of people on the Hyperion.
– Walters on pre-released character creation system: 'I think it’s something that we would consider, but at this point we don’t have a plan to do that and if that changes we’ll talk about it in the future. We know that our fans want it, but right now we’re focused on everything that we can do for the game itself.' GamesMaster, a hysterically designed magazine I didn't know existed, also has Mass Effect: Andromeda on the cover this month. They also spoke with Fabrice Condominas and Mac Walters.– The playable area is four times bigger than Mass Effect 3's.
– No procedural generation, the planets are handcrafted into detail.
– Condominas: 'The nature of cover changed the minute we introduced the jump ability. Now enemies can spawn behind, or on the side, making it way closer to Mass Effect 3 multiplayer. Fighting is faster and less methodical.' – Walters: 'We're not a corridor shooter any more.' – Most cover you see is destructible. – You're not a single class. Instead, your class shifts and mutates alongside your playstyle. Progressions earns a pool of points you're free to invest in any skill you choose, and by doing so you'll unlock profiles. These are the equivalent of classes, but what's different this time around is that you can switch between them from mission to mission.
– You can't fly the Tempest manually. But navigation is more exciting because you'll see the location the ship is through the big window of the bridge. – No load screens on the Tempest. – 'You will be able to add stuff, decorate stuff, put a bit of personality in [the Tempest].' (Condominas). – You can do the loyalty missions after the main story if you want.
– There are four respones in the dialogue wheel: heart, head, professional and casual. – Andromeda Initiative leaves in 2185. Green: I'm so happy I could cry.
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Post by Wulfram on Feb 11, 2017 1:53:26 GMT
Four times the playable area than Mass Effect 3 sound really very small for an open world game, particularly one with a presumably reasonably fast vehicle.
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 11, 2017 2:02:44 GMT
That had little to do with the Frosbite (by that I mean they didn't have time to get enough accostumed with the engine to build what I'm saying). The default AI, without tactics, sucked in DAO and DA2 too. What made it work was the tactics system which was much better compared to DAI. This is either because they didn't have time, as I said, or for an intentional choice to streamlining the system. AI wasn't much better in the OT as well. So they can only improve on that, and the Frotsbite isn't that limit to it, or other things, as you implied many times. ,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
Hm... some history.
Unfortunately, it had everything to do with the new engine. The FB game editor was designed as a FPS and lacked the necessary RPG elements that DA:I required. Thus, according to Bio, the Edmonton studio spent 5 man years of work to develop them. That was the reason for the first 1 year delay. So, if I harp on its limitations is because of past history. BTW, if you go and read the old BSN archives, you'll come across this fact( ie: missing RPG).
Nevertheless, having said the above, it seems that the Montreal studio recognized their limitations with the engine and the other studios chipped in. This should mean a quality game. However, regarding the AI, I'll believe it when I see it.
The RPG limitation was because it was the first rpg made for the engine. Thet spent more time because they have to implement all the assets and features, not because it can't handle said feature. It's the reason why they said it was easier to work in Andromeda, and it'll become easier with each game. Again, the AI being bad has nothing to do with the engine. The AI, without tactics, is bad in DAO, DA2. Its bad in the trilogy. I dare you to play DAO and DA2 with no tactics or even the basic the default ones, and see how good the companions act without input. The advantage the first two has was the tactic system, which we have no clue why it was like that. It could easily be due streamlining, as other combat features. Regardless, it is more related to the fact they need more time to be more accostumed with it then the engine being limited. It's one thing to say DAI suffered because the engine was brand new and they couldn't implement all the past features (which might be true if it was the reason behind the lackluster tactic system). It's another to say the engine limited for its design the rpg features or the AI, which is ridicolous.
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 11, 2017 2:04:49 GMT
Four times the playable area than Mass Effect 3 sound really very small for an open world game, particularly one with a presumably reasonably fast vehicle. Yeah, I think that it might be a wrong estimation, expecially because there are likely more planets to explore the inquisition. I'd actually be fine if the average area size is smaller compared to the average one in DAI, but based on that number the average should be much smaller.
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Post by unofficialgreycolor on Feb 11, 2017 2:14:42 GMT
1. Glad to see this confirmed. It's about time! 2. Um, Mac, that isn't a hint at all. Allow me to rephrase the question to illustrate: "Why was there an uprising in the Nexus?" "I'll give you a hint, a book is called Nexus Uprising!" Yes, we already knew there was one, hence the question... 3. Glad we'll get to customize the Tempest to some extent! 4. This implies that there are (almost) always 4 dialogue options. I hope so, since that would be an improvement over any voiced Bioware game! I wouldn't. Let's stay away from Shepard and the main plot for a potential movie. There's no way it would do it justice, not by a long shot. And having a movie canon would be incredibly lame. Plus, what would be the point? I'd rather just play the trilogy with my own character and choices, and it would be much longer and more in-depth. Better to do an anthology movie with mostly new characters. You're misreading. 4x the playable space means that if you add up all of the ingame areas you can play in, ME:A is 4x larger than ME3 (which frankly seems much smaller than expected considering the emphasis on open world). Physical, digital space. It has nothing to do with story length or playthrough time. Oh thank you for the clarification. I think I need to go see how big ME 3 is when I get home. lol. I don't think its going to be a problem, honestly.
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Post by Thrombin on Feb 11, 2017 3:10:25 GMT
– Walters on pre-released character creation system: 'I think it’s something that we would consider, but at this point we don’t have a plan to do that and if that changes we’ll talk about it in the future. We know that our fans want it, but right now we’re focused on everything that we can do for the game itself.' I'm confused. What is a 'pre-released character creation system' ?
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Post by Cyonan on Feb 11, 2017 3:13:32 GMT
– Walters on pre-released character creation system: 'I think it’s something that we would consider, but at this point we don’t have a plan to do that and if that changes we’ll talk about it in the future. We know that our fans want it, but right now we’re focused on everything that we can do for the game itself.' I'm confused. What is a 'pre-released character creation system' ? If I remember right they did it for Dragon Age Origins where you could actually go through character creation prior to the game being released, then save the character and import it into the main game when it actually came out. It's done so that the people who spend 2-3 hours making their character can do so early and immediately jump into the game when it releases. Given that we're this close to release and they have no plans for it, I seriously doubt we'll get one for ME:A.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 11, 2017 3:31:44 GMT
Ugh. I really don't fucking want Mac to muck up the movie too if that ever gets made. Just stick to continuing the derailing of the game franchise Drew K said to me he wants to write the script for the movie if they let him. Step aside Mac. They're so making the wrong choice with the way they designed the game's focus on individual planetary stories too. I hope each planet's story ties into the main plot in a meaningful way and otherwise I'm just looking forward to shooting things and crafting stuff and the game looking pretty and all that. I don't have a lot of faith in this plot/premise. The ideas are there but I'm consistently doubting whether BioWare takes advantage of them. Also the comment about Mac liking the designs and graphics and stuff just made me laugh. He took one glance at the scene they showed at TGA and went "yup, fine, it's a wrap!". He doesn't give two shits that face animation was utter crap or maybe the animation team has become so incompetent he's just giving up. I mean, they didn't notice how bad that was before showing it? They're not going to "polish" the game into being good if they need their audience as directors.
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Post by Thrombin on Feb 11, 2017 3:31:52 GMT
– Walters on pre-released character creation system: 'I think it’s something that we would consider, but at this point we don’t have a plan to do that and if that changes we’ll talk about it in the future. We know that our fans want it, but right now we’re focused on everything that we can do for the game itself.' I'm confused. What is a 'pre-released character creation system' ? If I remember right they did it for Dragon Age Origins where you could actually go through character creation prior to the game being released, then save the character and import it into the main game when it actually came out. It's done so that the people who spend 2-3 hours making their character can do so early and immediately jump into the game when it releases. Given that we're this close to release and they have no plans for it, I seriously doubt we'll get one for ME:A. Ah, I get it now. It was the typo that threw me!
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Post by unofficialgreycolor on Feb 11, 2017 3:36:19 GMT
– Walters on pre-released character creation system: 'I think it’s something that we would consider, but at this point we don’t have a plan to do that and if that changes we’ll talk about it in the future. We know that our fans want it, but right now we’re focused on everything that we can do for the game itself.' I'm confused. What is a 'pre-released character creation system' ? If I remember right they did it for Dragon Age Origins where you could actually go through character creation prior to the game being released, then save the character and import it into the main game when it actually came out. It's done so that the people who spend 2-3 hours making their character can do so early and immediately jump into the game when it releases. Given that we're this close to release and they have no plans for it, I seriously doubt we'll get one for ME:A. I actually think the option to play the game for 10 hours before the game is released is way better than just being able use the CC, but maybe that is just me?
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Post by Nashimura on Feb 11, 2017 7:50:44 GMT
"But navigation is more exciting because you'll see the location the ship is through the big window of the bridge" Certainly sounds exciting to me!
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 11, 2017 10:04:37 GMT
Ugh. I really don't fucking want Mac to muck up the movie too if that ever gets made. Just stick to continuing the derailing of the game franchise Drew K said to me he wants to write the script for the movie if they let him. Step aside Mac. They're so making the wrong choice with the way they designed the game's focus on individual planetary stories too. I hope each planet's story ties into the main plot in a meaningful way and otherwise I'm just looking forward to shooting things and crafting stuff and the game looking pretty and all that. I don't have a lot of faith in this plot/premise. The ideas are there but I'm consistently doubting whether BioWare takes advantage of them. Also the comment about Mac liking the designs and graphics and stuff just made me laugh. He took one glance at the scene they showed at TGA and went "yup, fine, it's a wrap!". He doesn't give two shits that face animation was utter crap or maybe the animation team has become so incompetent he's just giving up. I mean, they didn't notice how bad that was before showing it? They're not going to "polish" the game into being good if they need their audience as directors. I'd rate Drew and Mac on the same level. Both did some dumb stuff, and both ideas for the end of the trilogy sucked pretty bad. The only advantage with Drew is that we'll have the certainly that Cerberus won't be involved . I disagree on the planets' plots. I don't need a direct tie in a 'meaningful' way. It wouldn't work in this game in any case, since there's not a main plot revolving about a bad guy to stop. We have to expand in the cluster and find humanity new homes, which I think in any case the plots might be vaguely related about.
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Post by NRieh on Feb 11, 2017 10:27:31 GMT
Uhm..sorry, WUT? Are they saying that UNREAL Engine had not been 'designed for FPS' and something prevents\prevented it from 'looking spectacular'?..
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Post by sinkingfish on Feb 11, 2017 10:43:23 GMT
I'm sorry, but am I the only one who thinks some major porkies are being told here? You're telling me a guy from PGA golf came in and sat there for X amount of hours individually placing trees and fauna on the landscape, rather than using a tree placing tool? I don't believe you Bioware.
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