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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 13, 2017 18:04:03 GMT
Blast it. You know when you're going to copy paste a link and you end up erasing your entire post? That just happened so I'll give you a less impressive argument. I've recently purchased Kingdoms of Amalur, a game I played the demo of back in 2011 as a promo to ME3 to unlock that shitty armor, and I didn't think much of the game back then but I recently bought a used copy and it's kinda enjoyable. However, I make this post because I've picked up on a few things where I find it to be similar to Andromeda. I also know that part of the Montreal team that is making Andromeda are former leads on this game in question. I've noticed three things that give a distinct deja-vu to the KoA-developer's style that has influenced MEA: - The UI design (or just the implementation)
- The 'approach' to RPG
- The facial animations across cinematics and conversation segments
I told you it would be a shortened argument, so I'll just show you the videos now that I've lost so much text.
The Animation:
Cinematic animation: Systematic animation: Try comparing the way these characters talk to what we've seen of Andromeda, both the TGA footage and the 4K trailer. Another thing is the UI design. Across both games it looks a bit... amateur somehow. One thing is the way it looks if you are to take still images of it. MEA looks decidedly more cartoony to me than the trilogy, and when you see it move it's as if it's missing a few transitional animations or something. It just appears kinda pop-in like most of the time and when it does move it looks a little jittery. Lastly there's the approach to RPG and this is where I kinda had found just the right words and a nicely concise paragraph for it but then I deleted it by accident and CTRL-Z apparantely does nothing on this board when that happens so fuck it. All you need to know is that the decision to move to free-form class-building in MEA seems like a thing KoA strongly incentivised too, becuase it has the traditional high fantasy RPG classes like Warrior, Rogue and Mage but allows you to freely switch between them both in equipment and weapons and especially the combat is handled deliberately to make you try out mixes of rogue gameplay with mage gameplay and etc. Anyway, I just picked that up about this new Mass Effect game. It not only has 2-3 (and some that left) leads off of 38s studios that made KoA but is now defunct, working at Montreal, but it also seemed some of 38s studios' design philosophy to the action-RPG has carried over to redesigning Mass Effect in its fourth entry. What do you think? EDIT: Replaced example #2 because the former was shit.
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Post by PermTrouble on Feb 13, 2017 18:34:10 GMT
I always meant to try it but never did.
The idea of Salvatore and McFarlane teaming up on something sounded pretty neat
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Post by lastpawn on Feb 13, 2017 18:43:32 GMT
Excellent gameplay, but not much else to remember it by.
But I really cannot say enough about how reactive and smooth and crunchy that combat was.
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Post by dutchsghost7 on Feb 13, 2017 19:14:44 GMT
KoA showed off long uncut gameplay almost a year before release. In contrast, 37 days left and we still have nothing for andromeda.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 13, 2017 19:19:29 GMT
KoA showed off long uncut gameplay almost a year before release. In contrast, 37 days left and we still have nothing for andromeda. This has nothing to do with anything. It's just a different time and a different approach to development and marketing. It doesn't change that what they have shown has signs of KoA-like design in it. Also, I recommend anyone who's in a need of a game to play until MEA comes out to actually try KoA. It's rough in some ways but the fantasy setting is every bit as well-realized as you'd expect knowing who the author is and so far the question is more than the fetch-quest-ridden bleh I was fearing. You can tell there's similarities to DA:I since I just had a quest with the objective of "find and destroy 10 crates" but the difference is that each quest starts and ends in a properly zoomed-in conversation and I've had one choice so far where I felt like it actually changed the outcome of the quest. It also has nice Elder Scrolls-esque things like stealth and being able to steal things in shops and being thrown to jail if you're seen (unless you wanna kill the guards). It also lets you kill any NPC that doesn't have any mandatory content left.
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Post by themikefest on Feb 13, 2017 19:32:44 GMT
I remember that game. I liked it.
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Post by projectpatdc on Feb 13, 2017 19:33:32 GMT
KoA showed off long uncut gameplay almost a year before release. In contrast, 37 days left and we still have nothing for andromeda. Your posts are all worded in a way to actually sound like the Man in Black. It's awesome. I guess the forum doesn't really have a real villain so perfect fit.
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Post by _Wolf Rider_ on Feb 13, 2017 19:37:47 GMT
KoA showed off long uncut gameplay almost a year before release. In contrast, 37 days left and we still have nothing for andromeda. This has nothing to do with anything. It's just a different time and a different approach to development and marketing. It doesn't change that what they have shown has signs of KoA-like design in it. Also, I recommend anyone who's in a need of a game to play until MEA comes out to actually try KoA. It's rough in some ways but the fantasy setting is every bit as well-realized as you'd expect knowing who the author is and so far the question is more than the fetch-quest-ridden bleh I was fearing. You can tell there's similarities to DA:I since I just had a quest with the objective of "find and destroy 10 crates" but the difference is that each quest starts and ends in a properly zoomed-in conversation and I've had one choice so far where I felt like it actually changed the outcome of the quest. It also has nice Elder Scrolls-esque things like stealth and being able to steal things in shops and being thrown to jail if you're seen (unless you wanna kill the guards). It also lets you kill any NPC that doesn't have any mandatory content left.
Funny that you should say that, at the moment I am playing Kingdoms of Amalur to hold me over till Mass Effect: Andromeda releases. Kingdoms of Amalur's a fun game, it's a little rough around the edges and that level cap still bothers me, but still it's pretty fun to play. Right now I'm rocking a warrior who uses a poison longbow for long range and then switches to a flaming longsword for up close and personal. If Mass Effect: Andromeda is a little similar to Kingdoms of Amalur I would be fine with that, but in the end I do not really think it will be anything like Kingdoms of Amalur.
- Wolf
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Post by Beerfish on Feb 13, 2017 19:41:35 GMT
Isn't that the game that Curt Schilling lost a fortune on?
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Post by CHRrOME on Feb 13, 2017 19:41:38 GMT
I really liked that game, for the gameplay mainly. The story I couldn't never get myself into. The lore was complicated, and they never fleshed it out properly so never really payed to much attention to it. The main point of the game was the typical loot-RPG with a pretty fun combat.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 13, 2017 19:47:36 GMT
Isn't that the game that Curt Schilling lost a fortune on? yep. Hence the name of the studio matches his baseball number.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2017 20:53:10 GMT
I guess Andromeda being similar to KoA wouldn't bother me that much... though KoA was honestly really unpolished. It was fine, but... eh. My main gripe with it was honestly the art style. It had that WoW heavily stylized hyper masculine characters and the armor with massive pauldrons style. I literally hate that look, so it was really hard for me to get into it. MEA doesn't have that, thank God, so taking some notes from KoA wouldn't bother me a lot.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Feb 13, 2017 21:08:20 GMT
KoA showed off long uncut gameplay almost a year before release. In contrast, 37 days left and we still have nothing for andromeda. Using KoA as an example of a marketing gold standard when it ended up bankrupting its creators due to low sales is pretty fucking hilarious.
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Post by mango1smoothie on Feb 13, 2017 22:00:50 GMT
Ugh I hope not, was not a fan of KOA at all. Way too much emphasis gameplay, and it wasn't even that fun in my opinion. Amounted to a boring game that tried too hard to impress me with it's gameplay.
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Post by SofNascimento on Feb 13, 2017 22:14:29 GMT
KoA showed off long uncut gameplay almost a year before release. In contrast, 37 days left and we still have nothing for andromeda. This has nothing to do with anything. It's just a different time and a different approach to development and marketing.That's the best, and less likely, scenario.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 13, 2017 22:16:03 GMT
This has nothing to do with anything. It's just a different time and a different approach to development and marketing.That's the best, and less likely, scenario. how is it not likely? I think the only obvious scenario.
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Post by BadgerladDK on Feb 13, 2017 22:48:20 GMT
I guess Andromeda being similar to KoA wouldn't bother me that much... though KoA was honestly really unpolished. It was fine, but... eh. My main gripe with it was honestly the art style. It had that WoW heavily stylized hyper masculine characters and the armor with massive pauldrons style. I literally hate that look, so it was really hard for me to get into it. MEA doesn't have that, thank God, so taking some notes from KoA wouldn't bother me a lot. Yeah, I couldn't get over the wow look either, to the point I just left the demo running and watched movies to get the play time to unlock the me3 stuff.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2017 23:04:53 GMT
I guess Andromeda being similar to KoA wouldn't bother me that much... though KoA was honestly really unpolished. It was fine, but... eh. My main gripe with it was honestly the art style. It had that WoW heavily stylized hyper masculine characters and the armor with massive pauldrons style. I literally hate that look, so it was really hard for me to get into it. MEA doesn't have that, thank God, so taking some notes from KoA wouldn't bother me a lot. Yeah, I couldn't get over the wow look either, to the point I just left the demo running and watched movies to get the play time to unlock the me3 stuff. I did eventually buy the game because so many people were surprised by it actually being good. Honestly, it's packed with content, it's just that most of it isn't super interesting. Coupled with the fact that I loathe the art direction just leads to an underwhelming experience overall. I would say it's fine if you like open-world RPGs... Though, I'm getting sick of open-world lately. They're so tedious because of the amount of boring sidequests you have to slog through. It basically adds an extra 30 hours to your experience without offering anything substantial. It's like snack foods. I ended up just kinda quitting KoA at the 30 hour mark. I usually at least push through to the ending, but for some reason I was just completely over it. I didn't know what was going on, I didn't care, and I absolutely did not want to explore any more giant open areas with nothing in them. Like I said, Andromeda can take notes, but the art is different, there's more of a focus on story, and the combat is more action oriented. Andromeda will most certainly be better than KoA, just based on my own preferences. Though, admittedly that's just me being hopeful.
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Post by havox on Feb 13, 2017 23:26:29 GMT
The closest KOA reminds me is Divinity OS. Same cartoony oversaturated graphics. Same simplistic streamlined RPG elements. Both have generic high fantasy world setting with no memorable features. In Divinity OS defense, side content is better done, KOA world is monstrously sized, with the most dull quests this side of Dragon Age Inquisition. That said, Dragon Age Origins is subjectively better then either of those, back when last few capable game devs still hadn't run away from Bioware.
Not sure what any of this has got to do with Mass Effect series, a space opera dating sim shooter thing.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 14, 2017 0:42:00 GMT
Ugh I hope not, was not a fan of KOA at all. Way too much emphasis gameplay, and it wasn't even that fun in my opinion. Amounted to a boring game that tried too hard to impress me with it's gameplay. I always held off on it because I thought it looked really boring, and it kinda is but it's very casually enjoyable at the same time and because I always had such a low opinion of it from an outside-perspective I was pleasantly surprised by what it was. But wouldn't you agree though, that the high emphasis on action seems to be present as well as the "switch to anything you'd like" of Andromeda? So far they seem to have been marketed the combat the most, which makes sense but it's also a lot of particle-fiesta and many different abilities and craziness on the screen, just like this game. Either way I feel like it's been to be expected for a while that ME:A will have a lot of segments where combat is the default over dialogue or varied quest design. We don't know that yet, but that's kinda DA:I's problem and ME3's problem as well and I just don't see them skimping on it since BioWare has leaned more and more towards just focusing on enjoyable gameplay and slowly emphasising it more than their RPG systems in the last 5 years. I just don't expect a Fallout or Witcher game here where dialogue ever gets a chance to be the primary thing you do for more than an hour.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 14, 2017 0:44:12 GMT
The closest KOA reminds me is Divinity OS. Same cartoony oversaturated graphics. Same simplistic streamlined RPG elements. Both have generic high fantasy world setting with no memorable features. In Divinity OS defense, side content is better done, KOA world is monstrously sized, with the most dull quests this side of Dragon Age Inquisition. That said, Dragon Age Origins is subjectively better then either of those, back when last few capable game devs still hadn't run away from Bioware. Not sure what any of this has got to do with Mass Effect series, a space opera dating sim shooter thing. This is the high-fantasy standard. That's why you find it bland. Me too honestly, but at the same time mildly enjoyable. Not something you can really get invested in, but there's enough to enjoy it and just enough to make exploration interesting (at least to begin with) That said, KoA's level-design is laughable. It's all flat areas with not a lot going on and you can't jump so it's almost like a JRPG meets Western RPG. It's very WoW-esque actually but with gameplay that feels more exciting and quests that feel slightly more immersive.
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Post by mango1smoothie on Feb 14, 2017 1:19:05 GMT
Ugh I hope not, was not a fan of KOA at all. Way too much emphasis gameplay, and it wasn't even that fun in my opinion. Amounted to a boring game that tried too hard to impress me with it's gameplay. I always held off on it because I thought it looked really boring, and it kinda is but it's very casually enjoyable at the same time and because I always had such a low opinion of it from an outside-perspective I was pleasantly surprised by what it was. But wouldn't you agree though, that the high emphasis on action seems to be present as well as the "switch to anything you'd like" of Andromeda? So far they seem to have been marketed the combat the most, which makes sense but it's also a lot of particle-fiesta and many different abilities and craziness on the screen, just like this game. Either way I feel like it's been to be expected for a while that ME:A will have a lot of segments where combat is the default over dialogue or varied quest design. We don't know that yet, but that's kinda DA:I's problem and ME3's problem as well and I just don't see them skimping on it since BioWare has leaned more and more towards just focusing on enjoyable gameplay and slowly emphasising it more than their RPG systems in the last 5 years. I just don't expect a Fallout or Witcher game here where dialogue ever gets a chance to be the primary thing you do for more than an hour. The emphasis on Action game play does worry me greatly with Andromeda. I feel tactical depth and rpg elements will be reduced in favor of more high paced action run and gun. Don't get me wrong I'm super excited for Andromeda, but I do miss the feeling of being tactical during combat. Something I feel will be missing in Andromeda, but I hope I'm wrong.
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Post by The Elder King on Feb 14, 2017 1:23:26 GMT
That's the best, and less likely, scenario. how is it not likely? I think the only obvious scenario. His theory for a while is that the game is being rushed and they're not showing much because of that.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 14, 2017 1:26:12 GMT
how is it not likely? I think the only obvious scenario. His theory for a while is that the game is being rushed and they're not showing much because of that. ah.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 14, 2017 1:40:21 GMT
I always held off on it because I thought it looked really boring, and it kinda is but it's very casually enjoyable at the same time and because I always had such a low opinion of it from an outside-perspective I was pleasantly surprised by what it was. But wouldn't you agree though, that the high emphasis on action seems to be present as well as the "switch to anything you'd like" of Andromeda? So far they seem to have been marketed the combat the most, which makes sense but it's also a lot of particle-fiesta and many different abilities and craziness on the screen, just like this game. Either way I feel like it's been to be expected for a while that ME:A will have a lot of segments where combat is the default over dialogue or varied quest design. We don't know that yet, but that's kinda DA:I's problem and ME3's problem as well and I just don't see them skimping on it since BioWare has leaned more and more towards just focusing on enjoyable gameplay and slowly emphasising it more than their RPG systems in the last 5 years. I just don't expect a Fallout or Witcher game here where dialogue ever gets a chance to be the primary thing you do for more than an hour. The emphasis on Action game play does worry me greatly with Andromeda. I feel tactical depth and rpg elements will be reduced in favor of more high paced action run and gun. Don't get me wrong I'm super excited for Andromeda, but I do miss the feeling of being tactical during combat. Something I feel will be missing in Andromeda, but I hope I'm wrong. At this point you just can't let it surprise you. I mean, really? We've had 3-4 games now to show that BioWare has increasingly moved away from making their games about making the game world interactive and using combat as just another tool to explore it. They've prioritized combat more and more ever since ME2 then DA2 too, then a step further with ME3 and then DA:I and now another step futher (probably) or just like DA:I which also resolved almost everything with either combat or some poorly-ass contrived gameplay mechanics like the "collect clues" part in DA:I. Instead of making a systematized roleplaying system where the interface for making choices and interacting with the world is consistent we get a lot of "fun" mechanics instead like "mingle" in the Citadel DLC instead of creating a scenario where we can talk to the guards and create various outcomes like the Samara mission in ME2 or, IDK, anything in Fallout New Vegas or other great RPGs like, I don't know KOTOR? I feel like they're making games with RPG systems but then at every turn prefer to make another combat level or some new mechanic that makes it "fun" to solve some plot-related problem. I'm just not expecting ME:A to suddenly turn the tide.
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