Mihura
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“Major Wulf Khan and the 903rd Catachan ‘Night Shrikes’…”
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Post by Mihura on Feb 14, 2017 20:17:57 GMT
Interesting idea. Suggested compromise: make skill/personality variations in pairs and allow the player to choose of the pairs at character creation. Other sibling gets the road not taken. Result: You don't miss out on anything due to gender and you still get sibling chipping in on various tasks (I rather like that idea, particularly since the sibling is theoretically never out of contact since presumably you both have SAM implants). Yup that could be nice, I dislike how they handle Fallout4. I mean apart of forcing marriage on the PC, I had to be a lawyer which makes sense if you RP it right but going on a Power Armor and shooting military grade weapons like it was nothing... it was really weird.
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Feb 14, 2017 23:21:03 GMT
Honestly, I would rather the differences between Sara and Scott be little things rather than a huge difference in personality. For example, maybe one of them prefers soccer and the other prefers basketball. Maybe Scott had a shitty ex (whose gender is not made clear in-game for reasons), while Sara doesn't say anything about having a shitty ex-girlfriend or ex-boyfriend. Unfortunately, we already have a difference in backstory (Scott did this while Sara did that), so it might be too late to hope it's just the small stuff.
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Post by Kian on Feb 14, 2017 23:52:48 GMT
OP, what you're suggesting is basically "gender-locked classes". Please no. Many people have been raging at the asian game devs to stop with this nonsense in games for a very long time, and it is working, albeit very slowly lol.
If we want super duper realism, then what you say makes sense, of course. But even the hardcore realism players often skip this one. It's just an unnecessary hussle. Painstakingly move around Fallout 4 map without fast travel, with almost no heal, having to eat food and whatever else (I never tried survival mode lol and I don't care too, but those are a few of the things you need to do I think) will make your game x times longer than it should be. And some people like that. That "realism". However, put a gender-lock on the protagonist for various classes/professions/whatever, and I'm sure most people will only be pissed of by it. It just adds restrictions based on the devs' preconceptions or stereotypes with no positive impact on the player whatsoever.
Anywho, like I said, I get where you're coming from, but, if you want to rp those varieties, isn't it better to do it on your own, instead of asking for arbitrary restrictions that may or may not even be to your liking in the end?
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Post by Kian on Feb 14, 2017 23:57:17 GMT
Honestly, I would rather the differences between Sara and Scott be little things rather than a huge difference in personality. For example, maybe one of them prefers soccer and the other prefers basketball. Maybe Scott had a shitty ex (whose gender is not made clear in-game for reasons), while Sara doesn't say anything about having a shitty ex-girlfriend or ex-boyfriend. Unfortunately, we already have a difference in backstory (Scott did this while Sara did that), so it might be too late to hope it's just the small stuff. Scott talking about an ex-boyfriend would be amazing. You could have this triggered in game by a few choices made at char creation. Something like making a small background for him, like you do for his abilities. A checklist. What I'm suggesting is a "subtle" way for the player to determine sexuality lol, which the game can later use with tiny details like that. And yeah, I agree with the small differences being better. Big differences wouldn't make sense, in my opinion.
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Feb 15, 2017 0:00:29 GMT
Honestly, I would rather the differences between Sara and Scott be little things rather than a huge difference in personality. For example, maybe one of them prefers soccer and the other prefers basketball. Maybe Scott had a shitty ex (whose gender is not made clear in-game for reasons), while Sara doesn't say anything about having a shitty ex-girlfriend or ex-boyfriend. Unfortunately, we already have a difference in backstory (Scott did this while Sara did that), so it might be too late to hope it's just the small stuff. Scott talking about an ex-boyfriend would be amazing. You could have this triggered in game by a few choices made at char creation. Something like making a small background for him, like you do for his abilities. A checklist. What I'm suggesting is a "subtle" way for the player to determine sexuality lol, which the game can later use with tiny details like that. And yeah, I agree with the small differences being better. Big differences wouldn't make sense, in my opinion. It'd be great if our male player character can say "I'm gay." Remember how in the Dreamfalls Chapters, after various eps of fans not understanding that Kian is gay, he finally says he's gay? Like that, except with the characters in ME:A. Like it doesn't have to be a "thing" where they angst about being gay. Just, if you get hit on, you can be like "Sorry, I'm gay" or if you hit on a gay person as the opposite gender, they go "Nah I'm gay."
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Post by sageoflife on Feb 15, 2017 0:02:37 GMT
I doubt the differences will be as extreme as the OP is suggesting, due to the resulting roleplaying restrictions. I expect differences more similar to Shepard's reaction to Conrad's stalker shrine, where MaleShep sounded like he was resigned to the insanity of it all while FemShep sounded like she was on her last nerve with him.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2017 0:05:25 GMT
Interesting idea. Suggested compromise: make skill/personality variations in pairs and allow the player to choose of the pairs at character creation. Other sibling gets the road not taken. Result: You don't miss out on anything due to gender and you still get sibling chipping in on various tasks (I rather like that idea, particularly since the sibling is theoretically never out of contact since presumably you both have SAM implants). I like that, but I can't really imagine it ever being actually implemented. The way I proposed my idea was a way that I felt was something Bioware may have actually done, but even then I have no idea. They may have just made both Ryders gender swapped clones of one another, haha.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2017 0:07:56 GMT
OP, what you're suggesting is basically "gender-locked classes". Please no. Many people have been raging at the asian game devs to stop with this nonsense in games for a very long time, and it is working, albeit very slowly lol. If we want super duper realism, then what you say makes sense, of course. But even the hardcore realism players often skip this one. It's just an unnecessary hussle. Painstakingly move around Fallout 4 map without fast travel, with almost no heal, having to eat food and whatever else (I never tried survival mode lol and I don't care too, but those are a few of the things you need to do I think) will make your game x times longer than it should be. And some people like that. That "realism". However, put a gender-lock on the protagonist for various classes/professions/whatever, and I'm sure most people will only be pissed of by it. It just adds restrictions based on the devs' preconceptions or stereotypes with no positive impact on the player whatsoever. Anywho, like I said, I get where you're coming from, but, if you want to rp those varieties, isn't it better to do it on your own, instead of asking for arbitrary restrictions that may or may not even be to your liking in the end? .............. The hell are you even talking about? None of that has anything to do with what I said.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2017 0:10:30 GMT
Honestly, I would rather the differences between Sara and Scott be little things rather than a huge difference in personality. For example, maybe one of them prefers soccer and the other prefers basketball. Maybe Scott had a shitty ex (whose gender is not made clear in-game for reasons), while Sara doesn't say anything about having a shitty ex-girlfriend or ex-boyfriend. Unfortunately, we already have a difference in backstory (Scott did this while Sara did that), so it might be too late to hope it's just the small stuff. Scott talking about an ex-boyfriend would be amazing. You could have this triggered in game by a few choices made at char creation. Something like making a small background for him, like you do for his abilities. A checklist. What I'm suggesting is a "subtle" way for the player to determine sexuality lol, which the game can later use with tiny details like that. And yeah, I agree with the small differences being better. Big differences wouldn't make sense, in my opinion. That isn't really "subtle". That's blatantly stating it for no reason. In fact, that's literally the opposite of subtle.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2017 0:11:22 GMT
Honestly, I would rather the differences between Sara and Scott be little things rather than a huge difference in personality. For example, maybe one of them prefers soccer and the other prefers basketball. Maybe Scott had a shitty ex (whose gender is not made clear in-game for reasons), while Sara doesn't say anything about having a shitty ex-girlfriend or ex-boyfriend. Unfortunately, we already have a difference in backstory (Scott did this while Sara did that), so it might be too late to hope it's just the small stuff. This is exactly what I was asking for.
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Post by Vall on Feb 15, 2017 0:46:30 GMT
I doubt the differences will be as extreme as the OP is suggesting, due to the resulting roleplaying restrictions. I expect differences more similar to Shepard's reaction to Conrad's stalker shrine, where MaleShep sounded like he was resigned to the insanity of it all while FemShep sounded like she was on her last nerve with him. That's what I suggested earlier, it just seems to have been ugnored because I made a jab at Sheploo being emotionless
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Post by Kian on Feb 15, 2017 10:51:20 GMT
OP, what you're suggesting is basically "gender-locked classes". Please no. Many people have been raging at the asian game devs to stop with this nonsense in games for a very long time, and it is working, albeit very slowly lol. If we want super duper realism, then what you say makes sense, of course. But even the hardcore realism players often skip this one. It's just an unnecessary hussle. Painstakingly move around Fallout 4 map without fast travel, with almost no heal, having to eat food and whatever else (I never tried survival mode lol and I don't care too, but those are a few of the things you need to do I think) will make your game x times longer than it should be. And some people like that. That "realism". However, put a gender-lock on the protagonist for various classes/professions/whatever, and I'm sure most people will only be pissed of by it. It just adds restrictions based on the devs' preconceptions or stereotypes with no positive impact on the player whatsoever. Anywho, like I said, I get where you're coming from, but, if you want to rp those varieties, isn't it better to do it on your own, instead of asking for arbitrary restrictions that may or may not even be to your liking in the end? .............. The hell are you even talking about? None of that has anything to do with what I said. You really don't get it? Wow. Ok, let me make it easier for you: You said: 1. So you propose Sara be more "tech" while Scott be more "military". (whatever that means outside silly stereotypes of "men is gorilla > smash stuff and woman is fluffy > giggle") 2. Sara is female. Scott is male. 3. So you propose the female be more "tech" while the male be more "military". 4. Being "tech" or "military", if it refers to skills/abilities/dialogue (minor or otherwise)/etc is basically classes as a classic rpg games system, whether you want to call them that or not. 5. So you are proposing gender-locked classes. 6. Meaning a male protagonist can't open that door there, because he is not "tech" enough. Only the female can. Phew. If that was STILL too complex let me know. I can do a drawing or something.
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Post by Kian on Feb 15, 2017 10:54:41 GMT
Scott talking about an ex-boyfriend would be amazing. You could have this triggered in game by a few choices made at char creation. Something like making a small background for him, like you do for his abilities. A checklist. What I'm suggesting is a "subtle" way for the player to determine sexuality lol, which the game can later use with tiny details like that. And yeah, I agree with the small differences being better. Big differences wouldn't make sense, in my opinion. It'd be great if our male player character can say "I'm gay." Remember how in the Dreamfalls Chapters, after various eps of fans not understanding that Kian is gay, he finally says he's gay? Like that, except with the characters in ME:A. Like it doesn't have to be a "thing" where they angst about being gay. Just, if you get hit on, you can be like "Sorry, I'm gay" or if you hit on a gay person as the opposite gender, they go "Nah I'm gay." Yeah that was great! And probably the ONLY time ever I heard that in a game Almost, ALMOST made me forgive them for the FORCED kiss Kian had to endure from that woman PS: And yes, the Kian name is not a coincidence
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2017 10:58:25 GMT
.............. The hell are you even talking about? None of that has anything to do with what I said. You really don't get it? Wow. Ok, let me make it easier for you: You said: 1. So you propose Sara be more "tech" while Scott be more "military". (whatever that means outside silly stereotypes of "men is gorilla > smash stuff and woman is fluffy > giggle") 2. Sara is female. Scott is male. 3. So you propose the female be more "tech" while the male be more "military". 4. Being "tech" or "military", if it refers to skills/abilities/dialogue (minor or otherwise)/etc is basically classes as a classic rpg games system, whether you want to call them that or not. 5. So you are proposing gender-locked classes. 6. Meaning a male protagonist can't open that door there, because he is not "tech" enough. Only the female can. Phew. If that was STILL too complex let me know. I can do a drawing or something. 1. Has literally nothing to do with gender stereotypes. Just their already established backstories. I also said that the paraphrased dialogue would be more or less the same. 2. Okay? 3. They already are. Canonically. 4. No, it doesn't refer to skills, abilities, or dialogue. I already described this. You just didn't read what I said. Or you didn't understand it. 5. No, that's not even close to what I described. 6. Again, no, that's not what it means. You either didn't read, or you didn't pay attention to what you read. It's complex because you're attributing random bullshit to what I said and trying to pretend like it's something I asked for. Even worse is the fact that you seem to be so lacking in self awareness that you're actually mocking me for you being unable to read what I wrote. It's quite annoying, honestly.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2017 11:19:28 GMT
I'm afraid Bioware implements the differences as something like this: Sara opens a closed door with her tech skills while Scott shoots the door open. Or she uses her science knowledge in order to make a defective machine working, while Scott puts randomly any buttons till it works.... I don't want to be the stupid or less intelligent sibling. Hopefully, they avoid differences like this.
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Post by Cannibal on Feb 15, 2017 11:40:02 GMT
Where does this science geek stuff come from. She was a glorified security guard through the military, so was Scott. He guarded a space station, she guarded a research station. And most likely that's just default, we should have the choice.
Also only our character will be able to change classes on the fly because only we will be upgraded to Alex's chip.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2017 11:48:40 GMT
Where does this science geek stuff come from. She was a glorified security guard through the military, so was Scott. He guarded a space station, she guarded a research station. And most likely that's just default, we should have the choice. Also only our character will be able to change classes on the fly because only we will be upgraded to Alex's chip. I really think there are some differences based on their background...otherwise it wouldn't be difficult to give us the possibility to choose our background and give our sibling the other background that we didn't chose... but I guess it would be too much work to record each different line for each sibling twice, and that's why it's based on our gender which background (and knowledge) our character has. That's why I think there will be differences based on their knowledge...and since Sara had worked with scientists it's likely that she'll have more science based knowledge than Scott.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2017 11:57:46 GMT
I'm afraid Bioware implements the differences as something like this: Sara opens a closed door with her tech skills while Scott shoots the door open. Or she uses her science knowledge in order to make a defective machine working, while Scott puts randomly any buttons till it works.... I don't want to be the stupid or less intelligent sibling. Hopefully, they avoid differences like this. That's not really what I was implying. I was mostly just nudging towards the idea that each character would have something that sets them apart from the other sibling, and choosing random examples to demonstrate that. Shepard did have some locked in traits, but we were still able to define him however we wanted. I'm saying that I hope the Ryder twins also have some already defined traits, but that these traits are different between the two characters, because they both exist in the world at the same time, and I would like them to feel distinct, and not just like two clones.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2017 12:02:19 GMT
Where does this science geek stuff come from. She was a glorified security guard through the military, so was Scott. He guarded a space station, she guarded a research station. And most likely that's just default, we should have the choice. Also only our character will be able to change classes on the fly because only we will be upgraded to Alex's chip. "Science geek" might've been a bit of an exaggeration on my part, if I did actually say that, though I remember hearing something about her being involved in Prothean ruins. According to you, though, she was just a security guard. If that's the case, the twins are less different than I had thought, lol. But again, I'd like everyone to move away from the idea of classes. I never said anything about locked in classes. I feel like people are focusing way too heavily on that, and I'm not sure why. Think simpler, more basic traits. I want each Ryder sibling to have very simple defining traits that separates them from one another. Nothing as major as classes or personalities, but just... little things. Like Shepard had. Shepard, while being player defined, also had some things the player couldn't choose. I would like Sara and Scott to have traits like this, but have those traits be different from one another. Like, again, the example of Scott being able to cook, and Sara being bad at it. Just little bits of character flavor that keeps them from being too similar.
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Post by Cannibal on Feb 15, 2017 12:17:46 GMT
Where does this science geek stuff come from. She was a glorified security guard through the military, so was Scott. He guarded a space station, she guarded a research station. And most likely that's just default, we should have the choice. Also only our character will be able to change classes on the fly because only we will be upgraded to Alex's chip. I really think there are some differences based on their background...otherwise it wouldn't be difficult to give us the possibility to choose our background and give our sibling the other background that we didn't chose... but I guess it would be too much work to record each different line for each sibling twice, and that's why it's based on our gender which background (and knowledge) our character has. That's why I think there will be differences based on their knowledge...and since Sara had worked with scientists it's likely that she'll have more science based knowledge than Scott. I'd be very surprised if they don't give us the choice of background, but it's not going to be massive differences, it'll be a few lines here and there. Look at Shepard, 3 completely different origins but yet they're still the same person.
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Post by wright1978 on Feb 15, 2017 12:37:30 GMT
Honestly, I would rather the differences between Sara and Scott be little things rather than a huge difference in personality. For example, maybe one of them prefers soccer and the other prefers basketball. Maybe Scott had a shitty ex (whose gender is not made clear in-game for reasons), while Sara doesn't say anything about having a shitty ex-girlfriend or ex-boyfriend. Unfortunately, we already have a difference in backstory (Scott did this while Sara did that), so it might be too late to hope it's just the small stuff. If the game isn't going to give me a choice as to the characters sporting preference they should stay silent and leave it to the player. Neither do i think locking the player into a fixed relationship history serves any benefit.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2017 12:57:42 GMT
I really think there are some differences based on their background...otherwise it wouldn't be difficult to give us the possibility to choose our background and give our sibling the other background that we didn't chose... but I guess it would be too much work to record each different line for each sibling twice, and that's why it's based on our gender which background (and knowledge) our character has. That's why I think there will be differences based on their knowledge...and since Sara had worked with scientists it's likely that she'll have more science based knowledge than Scott. I'd be very surprised if they don't give us the choice of background, but it's not going to be massive differences, it'll be a few lines here and there. Look at Shepard, 3 completely different origins but yet they're still the same person. They've already stated that the background is based on whether we play as Sara or Scott. We have no choice in it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2017 13:07:33 GMT
Honestly, I would rather the differences between Sara and Scott be little things rather than a huge difference in personality. For example, maybe one of them prefers soccer and the other prefers basketball. Maybe Scott had a shitty ex (whose gender is not made clear in-game for reasons), while Sara doesn't say anything about having a shitty ex-girlfriend or ex-boyfriend. Unfortunately, we already have a difference in backstory (Scott did this while Sara did that), so it might be too late to hope it's just the small stuff. If the game isn't going to give me a choice as to the characters sporting preference they should stay silent and leave it to the player. Neither do i think locking the player into a fixed relationship history serves any benefit. "whose gender is not made clear in-game for reasons"....That wouldn't even work in my language (which would finally lead to a translation of a heterosexual ex-girlfriend of Scott if I don't wanna play the game in original language)... no thanks And yes, I think they should really leave this to the player. There are people after all who don't want Scott to have an ex girl/boyfriend or who don't want him to play soccer/basketball...
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Post by illusivecake on Feb 17, 2017 2:11:20 GMT
I'm reposting something I posted in a different thread because I think it fits in with this discussion to some degree:
I see a lot of people are hoping for a snarky/teasing sibling and a few people seem to want a sort of protective sibling. Personally I think it would be cool if you could choose a base personality for the npc sibling ala Hawke from Dragon Age 2. Like choose between humorous/diplomatic/blunt and while the convos all pretty much end up in the same place, some of the dialogue and the delivery would differ based on the personality chosen. And then of course you get to choose how to react/respond.
This way, we'd all have different relationships with the siblings. You can have the more teasing/sibling rivalry type of relationship, the sweet, protective big brother or sister relationship or the weird awkward cousin type that no one wants to talk to at the family reunions.. This would also increase replay value for me
I realize we're not likely to get an option like this in game, but it would really help in differentiating our player character from the npc sibling across multiple playthroughs.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2017 9:01:59 GMT
I'm reposting something I posted in a different thread because I think it fits in with this discussion to some degree: I see a lot of people are hoping for a snarky/teasing sibling and a few people seem to want a sort of protective sibling. Personally I think it would be cool if you could choose a base personality for the npc sibling ala Hawke from Dragon Age 2. Like choose between humorous/diplomatic/blunt and while the convos all pretty much end up in the same place, some of the dialogue and the delivery would differ based on the personality chosen. And then of course you get to choose how to react/respond.
This way, we'd all have different relationships with the siblings. You can have the more teasing/sibling rivalry type of relationship, the sweet, protective big brother or sister relationship or the weird awkward cousin type that no one wants to talk to at the family reunions.. This would also increase replay value for meI realize we're not likely to get an option like this in game, but it would really help in differentiating our player character from the npc sibling across multiple playthroughs. I do like things like this, but as you said, it's not super likely. The reason I worded my original post the way I did was because I figured it was one of the most likely ways Bioware might try to implement some kind of difference between the Ryders. I know my idea isn't the most ideal, but I thought it was the most realistic. Unfortunately, that's the best I could come up with. Of course, they may just choose to do nothing to differentiate them at all, which would be disappointing for me, but oh well.
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