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Post by projectpatdc on Feb 16, 2017 1:44:49 GMT
I am starting a thread solely for the purpose for members to debate the pros and cons of open world gaming vs linear gaming. Discuss what elements you believe the Mass Effect games will benefit from going forward. Use examples from past games to support your argument and give scenarios of your ideal experience.
What makes an open world game great? What makes one suck? Same for linear experiences? Considering the fans are typically split between those who want the same great cinematic experience of Mass Effect 3 and those that want more open world RPG elements of ME1, which side do you typically leans toward.
At the end of the day, it sounds like we are getting a good balance/hybrid in Mass Effect Andromeda, but is this necessarily a good thing?
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Post by Mihura on Feb 16, 2017 1:48:03 GMT
Without a doubt a more close map but less linear story and focus on characters, open world is great if you have money and resources to populate it with stories. If not let other do it and focus on good story telling.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 16, 2017 1:56:12 GMT
I prefer Lopen world.
It's where the game happens in one seamless map where some areas become levels and the world has different phases as the story progresses and it's not so huge you never get to see all of it.
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Post by mango1smoothie on Feb 16, 2017 2:11:10 GMT
I'm way more into great story, characters, and choices when it comes to rpg games. I can forgive game play if the story and the role playing choices keep me engaged. Even alpha protocol with some of the most horrendus gameplay I've ever played in a video game kept me playing because of the story.
Not an excuse for bad gameplay, but I would rather see story and rpg take priority.
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Post by n7vakarian on Feb 16, 2017 2:20:31 GMT
I'm getting sick of open world games with quite frankly nothing but a empty space to run in.
More close focused on the story and characters and the gameplay itself please.
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Post by projectpatdc on Feb 16, 2017 2:23:09 GMT
I'm way more into great story, characters, and choices when it comes to rpg games. I can forgive game play if the story and the role playing choices keep me engaged. Even alpha protocol with some of the most horrendus gameplay I've ever played in a video game kept me playing because of the story. Not an excuse for bad gameplay, but I would rather see story and rpg take priority. This brings up a good point. You say story and RPG, but ME2 and ME3 were barely an RPG in a sense. Yes you make decisions in the story but everything else was bare bones. Minimum crafting, very basic progression, not a ton of side quests to go do, no exploration, barely any collecting, barely any looting, and no reason to keep playing after you've finished the main story because there was only the main story.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 2:24:42 GMT
Open world is not that great. Witcher 3 started to get on my nerves after some time tbh. I think because we have so many planets to visit, it's fine the way it is. DAI was not open, but felt really empty, especially when you started to explore. Character development and good stories will always top side quests and wandering aimlessly imo. For future MEA games I hope they keep to this style.
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Post by projectpatdc on Feb 16, 2017 2:25:21 GMT
I'm getting sick of open world games with quite frankly nothing but a empty space to run in. More close focused on the story and characters and the gameplay itself please. So no wide open space exploration or planet exploration? You just want a 3rd person shooter, movie-style game?
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Post by isaidlunch on Feb 16, 2017 2:27:43 GMT
I hate open world and I don't think it has any place in story-heavy RPGs. It's turned into a buzzword where developers have to include it whether they like it or not, just like crafting.
I'm hoping MEA will at least do away with the boring points of interests I've seen in other games like TW3 or DAI. Players should be encouraged to explore the world through side quests or interesting locations, not through boring chores.
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Post by Cypher on Feb 16, 2017 2:29:10 GMT
Open world doesn't mean the game isn't linear. Open world just means that the level is big. That's all it is.
Inquisition was quite linear, Skyrim is not. That's because Skyrim is an open world sandbox. The operative word is sandbox, meaning you can pretty much do whatever you want and not be beholden to the narrative completely for progression. GTA is a sandbox due to the variety of side activities that you can do and what you can achieve without really progressing the story. MGS5 is open world, because even though there's a focus on infiltrating areas for your missions and doing them as you see fit, the bits in between those missions are quite linear.
Final Fantasy 7 with bigger hubs that you could run around in wouldn't be open world just because the hubs are bigger, nor is it open world because you could freely explore the world map; everything about that game is about getting you toward the next beat in the story. Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, and RPGs like them are pretty much a refinement of what JRPGs like FF7/FF8, Breath of Fire, Suikoden, and so on tried to achieve or spoof via their world map linked hub locations, except with better technology to make places actually the size they look in the game.
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Post by projectpatdc on Feb 16, 2017 2:31:45 GMT
Open world is not that great. Witcher 3 started to get on my nerves after some time tbh. I think because we have so many planets to visit, it's fine the way it is. DAI was not open, but felt really empty, especially when you started to explore. Character development and good stories will always top side quests and wandering aimlessly imo. For future MEA games I hope they keep to this style. What do you do after the story is done? And on those many planets, you want to just do quick linear missions with nothing but shooting and talking then leave forever in that play through? IMO, Witcher 3 is meant to be w game where you go do everything while playing the story. It has all this little content so that when you are playing or out free roaming, you always have something to do. I take it you didn't like Red Dead Redemption?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 2:35:33 GMT
Open world is not that great. Witcher 3 started to get on my nerves after some time tbh. I think because we have so many planets to visit, it's fine the way it is. DAI was not open, but felt really empty, especially when you started to explore. Character development and good stories will always top side quests and wandering aimlessly imo. For future MEA games I hope they keep to this style. What do you do after the story is done? And on those many planets, you want to just do quick linear missions with nothing but shooting and talking then leave forever in that play through? IMO, Witcher 3 is meant to be w game where you go do everything while playing the story. It has all this little content so that when you are playing or out free roaming, you always have something to do. I take it you didn't like Red Dead Redemption? Wait for DLC? LOL actually from what we were told, the quests are nearly endless in this game, so I have a lot to do, and when the game ends new stuff opens up! I just can't replay it. I beat it and it was fun, but I just find no point in playing it again. I still find myself playing Oblivion and Skyrim over and over again though, and love every moment of them! I never played that game. Not my style.
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Post by mango1smoothie on Feb 16, 2017 2:36:25 GMT
I'm way more into great story, characters, and choices when it comes to rpg games. I can forgive game play if the story and the role playing choices keep me engaged. Even alpha protocol with some of the most horrendus gameplay I've ever played in a video game kept me playing because of the story. Not an excuse for bad gameplay, but I would rather see story and rpg take priority. This brings up a good point. You say story and RPG, but ME2 and ME3 were barely an RPG in a sense. Yes you make decisions in the story but everything else was bare bones. Minimum crafting, very basic progression, not a ton of side quests to go do, no exploration, barely any collecting, barely any looting, and no reason to keep playing after you've finished the main story because there was only the main story. And I have problems with ME2 and ME3 for these reasons, and while I still enjoy those games I wish both had put more emphasis on story and rpg. Andromeda will also be more focused on the gameplay elements like ME2 and ME3 were, but that doesn't mean I won't like it because of that. I just would prefer if it went a little more down the rpg path.
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Post by projectpatdc on Feb 16, 2017 2:44:21 GMT
Open world doesn't mean the game isn't linear. Open world just means that the level is big. That's all it is. Inquisition was quite linear, Skyrim is not. That's because Skyrim is an open world sandbox. The operative word is sandbox, meaning you can pretty much do whatever you want and not be beholden to the narrative completely for progression. GTA is a sandbox due to the variety of side activities that you can do and what you can achieve without really progressing the story. MGS5 is open world, because even though there's a focus on infiltrating areas for your missions and doing them as you see fit, the bits in between those missions are quite linear. Final Fantasy 7 with bigger hubs that you could run around in wouldn't be open world just because the hubs are bigger, nor is it open world because you could freely explore the world map; everything about that game is about getting you toward the next beat in the story. Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, and RPGs like them are pretty much a refinement of what JRPGs like FF7/FF8, Breath of Fire, Suikoden, and so on tried to achieve or spoof via their world map linked hub locations, except with better technology to make places actually the size they look in the game. Nice clarification, but there are still people who don't even care for any open world elements let alone sandbox. The biggest issue I have is not so much of the game being a sandbox, its the idea that you couldn't revisit previous game areas or world in ME2 or ME3 because they were just scripted linear shooting experiences. I think you should create a world/game where your locations hold more value. You could travel back to previous areas in Final Fantasy and all of the Dark Souls games (very linear in design). You couldn't come back to Tuchanka in ME3 like you can't revisit any areas in Uncharted 4. It becomes a scripted movie where you make dialogue choices and cannot deviate from the path of the game to actually Role Play with your imagination
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Post by projectpatdc on Feb 16, 2017 2:46:30 GMT
What do you do after the story is done? And on those many planets, you want to just do quick linear missions with nothing but shooting and talking then leave forever in that play through? IMO, Witcher 3 is meant to be w game where you go do everything while playing the story. It has all this little content so that when you are playing or out free roaming, you always have something to do. I take it you didn't like Red Dead Redemption? Wait for DLC? LOL actually from what we were told, the quests are nearly endless in this game, so I have a lot to do, and when the game ends new stuff opens up! I just can't replay it. I beat it and it was fun, but I just find no point in playing it again. I still find myself playing Oblivion and Skyrim over and over again though, and love every moment of them! I never played that game. Not my style. Exactly! You still play skyrim and oblivion and love because of what reason? And wouldn't you want Mass Effect to have some of those same reasons?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 2:50:55 GMT
Wait for DLC? LOL actually from what we were told, the quests are nearly endless in this game, so I have a lot to do, and when the game ends new stuff opens up! I just can't replay it. I beat it and it was fun, but I just find no point in playing it again. I still find myself playing Oblivion and Skyrim over and over again though, and love every moment of them! I never played that game. Not my style. Exactly! You still play skyrim and oblivion and love because of what reason? And wouldn't you want Mass Effect to have some of those same reasons? Well they have lots of quests and you can always choose another path (not as detailed as in a BW game though) and lots of story and character development. DAI lacked life in those vast places and MEA would probably end up the same way. At least in TES you always ran into someone even when exploring. BW would need to add more of that if they want to go the open world route. It's not the idea of an open world I dislike, it's how empty they can be.
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Post by projectpatdc on Feb 16, 2017 2:53:12 GMT
This brings up a good point. You say story and RPG, but ME2 and ME3 were barely an RPG in a sense. Yes you make decisions in the story but everything else was bare bones. Minimum crafting, very basic progression, not a ton of side quests to go do, no exploration, barely any collecting, barely any looting, and no reason to keep playing after you've finished the main story because there was only the main story. And I have problems with ME2 and ME3 for these reasons, and while I still enjoy those games I wish both had put more emphasis on story and rpg. Andromeda will also be more focused on the gameplay elements like ME2 and ME3 were, but that doesn't mean I won't like it because of that. I just would prefer if it went a little more down the rpg path. I'm confused. ME2 and ME3 did put more emphasis on story. That's why they were so linear. The RPG path imo is more of the small things that build up your character and the atmosphere/world around them (Collecting, building, developing, exploring, helping, relaxing and talking, etc) instead of just doing a story and primary fighting gameplay.
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Post by projectpatdc on Feb 16, 2017 2:59:48 GMT
Exactly! You still play skyrim and oblivion and love because of what reason? And wouldn't you want Mass Effect to have some of those same reasons? Well they have lots of quests and you can always choose another path (not as detailed as in a BW game though) and lots of story and character development. DAI lacked life in those vast places and MEA would probably end up the same way. At least in TES you always ran into someone even when exploring. BW would need to add more of that if they want to go the open world route. It's not the idea of an open world I dislike, it's how empty they can be. So on account that this game takes place in outer space on new worlds that are typically uninhabited but hostile, I would say a certain amount of emptiness would fit well. Having a reason to collect things and having tons of various sized quests with a purpose in an infinitely replayable manner would fit nicely in an open world space adventure. Would it not? Or would you still just go for a quick awesome experience like playing an uncharted game then let it collect dust?
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Post by n7vakarian on Feb 16, 2017 3:03:37 GMT
I'm getting sick of open world games with quite frankly nothing but a empty space to run in. More close focused on the story and characters and the gameplay itself please. So no wide open space exploration or planet exploration? You just want a 3rd person shooter, movie-style game? I'm all for having large areas to explore but the main thing with this gen has been "Open World" as in lots of space and nothing that fills it at all. Lots of empty nothing that brings nothing to the overall aspect of the game, just an open space we have to run through. Open world games lack Structure more than anything. Open world games are fast becoming the "FPS Boom" that there was in the last generation
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Post by Larry-3 on Feb 16, 2017 3:13:34 GMT
If there is an overabundance of meaningful side-quest throughout the map, then I would not mind it being Open World.
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Post by projectpatdc on Feb 16, 2017 3:14:29 GMT
So no wide open space exploration or planet exploration? You just want a 3rd person shooter, movie-style game? I'm all for having large areas to explore but the main thing with this gen has been "Open World" as in lots of space and nothing that fills it at all. Lots of empty nothing that brings nothing to the overall aspect of the game, just an open space we have to run through. Open world games lack Structure more than anything. Open world games are fast becoming the "FPS Boom" that there was in the last generation Yeah I fucking hate structure in pretty much anything, but I also agree open worlds need to have substance. Let me play and make my own structure. Just don't allow the options to drop in quality. Also no other game has been able to do what Red Dead Redemption did. It took would have a gorgeous empty sandbox/open world game, and add meaningful, well scripted random events all through out the world. You always had the option to engage them in addition to fleshed out side quests, gang outposts/hideouts, mini games, etc. Ubisoft's idea of open world games is fucking terrible though. Same with all the copy cats
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Post by Madflavor on Feb 16, 2017 3:22:39 GMT
The backlash against Open World games is starting to grow louder every year. I was honestly sick of them by late 2015, so I'm glad to see more people are gonna fed up. That's not to say Open World is generally bad, but when all franchises start jumping on the train, it grows very tiring, because the vast majority of the content in these games, are dicking around collecting scrap, discovering codexes, revealing more of the map, and unremarkable side quests.
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Post by clips7 on Feb 16, 2017 3:49:26 GMT
I prefer the more streamlined approach....however it was crafted in ME2. You had options to do sidequests and you wasn't under a timeclock to do it regardless of the Collector threat. I liked that the game allowed you to proceed at your own pace.
Open world design can be great as well if it's designed properly. You can easily get sidetracked with mindless sidequests and start another sidequest or collect items for another sidequest while venturing on the current sidequest. Not saying Bioware would do that, but you can run the risk of that scenario happening. The story becomes an after thought if the open world segment isn't contained or structured properly.
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Post by projectpatdc on Feb 16, 2017 3:53:46 GMT
I prefer the more streamlined approach....however it was crafted in ME2. You had options to do sidequests and you wasn't under a timeclock to do it regardless of the Collector threat. I liked that the game allowed you to proceed at your own pace. Open world design can be great as well if it's designed properly. You can easily get sidetracked with mindless sidequests and start another sidequest or collect items for another sidequest while venturing on the current sidequest. Not saying Bioware would do that, but you can run the risk of that scenario happening. The story becomes an after thought if the open world segment isn't contained or structured properly. Again, why force structure. It's assuming all gamers are idiots and cannot choose to follow the main story only if that's their intentions. Leave that up to gamer instead of holding their hand.
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Post by lastpawn on Feb 16, 2017 3:54:38 GMT
In 2 decades of gaming I played maybe, what 3-4 open world games that were actually good. And I'm including the original Fallout.
"Open world" is a marketing thing, and it became a thing mostly because of Bethesda's runaway success in creating massive playground worlds largely devoid of interesting stories or characters. Since I prefer interesting stories to playground worlds, hearing that a game is "open world" usually conjures the blandness of Oblivion or boredom of Inquisition.
Anyway, I think I prefer balance in this, as I imagine most players would.
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