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Post by Cypher on Feb 16, 2017 4:01:12 GMT
Open world doesn't mean the game isn't linear. Open world just means that the level is big. That's all it is. Inquisition was quite linear, Skyrim is not. That's because Skyrim is an open world sandbox. The operative word is sandbox, meaning you can pretty much do whatever you want and not be beholden to the narrative completely for progression. GTA is a sandbox due to the variety of side activities that you can do and what you can achieve without really progressing the story. MGS5 is open world, because even though there's a focus on infiltrating areas for your missions and doing them as you see fit, the bits in between those missions are quite linear. Final Fantasy 7 with bigger hubs that you could run around in wouldn't be open world just because the hubs are bigger, nor is it open world because you could freely explore the world map; everything about that game is about getting you toward the next beat in the story. Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, and RPGs like them are pretty much a refinement of what JRPGs like FF7/FF8, Breath of Fire, Suikoden, and so on tried to achieve or spoof via their world map linked hub locations, except with better technology to make places actually the size they look in the game. Nice clarification, but there are still people who don't even care for any open world elements let alone sandbox. The biggest issue I have is not so much of the game being a sandbox, its the idea that you couldn't revisit previous game areas or world in ME2 or ME3 because they were just scripted linear shooting experiences. I think you should create a world/game where your locations hold more value. You could travel back to previous areas in Final Fantasy and all of the Dark Souls games (very linear in design). You couldn't come back to Tuchanka in ME3 like you can't revisit any areas in Uncharted 4. It becomes a scripted movie where you make dialogue choices and cannot deviate from the path of the game to actually Role Play with your imagination But what does that have to do with Andromeda, especially if Andromeda is taking after DA:I in regards to level design? All major hubs in Inquisition were slapped in the middle of bigass levels that you could wander around in during and after questlines. Mass 1 --the other game they're taking inspiration from-- was essentially the same, not in regards to major hubs being on the uncharted worlds, but that the vast majority of the hubs could be revisted after you were done.
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Post by warlorejohn on Feb 16, 2017 4:01:59 GMT
Should of had an option with a little of both.
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Post by Cypher on Feb 16, 2017 4:09:06 GMT
Should of had an option with a little of both. As I've already stated, they're not mutually exclusive concepts. The game will likely be both just like Dragon Age Inquisition and Mass Effect 1 were both.
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Post by projectpatdc on Feb 16, 2017 4:09:52 GMT
Nice clarification, but there are still people who don't even care for any open world elements let alone sandbox. The biggest issue I have is not so much of the game being a sandbox, its the idea that you couldn't revisit previous game areas or world in ME2 or ME3 because they were just scripted linear shooting experiences. I think you should create a world/game where your locations hold more value. You could travel back to previous areas in Final Fantasy and all of the Dark Souls games (very linear in design). You couldn't come back to Tuchanka in ME3 like you can't revisit any areas in Uncharted 4. It becomes a scripted movie where you make dialogue choices and cannot deviate from the path of the game to actually Role Play with your imagination But what does that have to do with Andromeda, especially if Andromeda is taking after DA:I in regards to level design? All major hubs in Inquisition were slapped in the middle of bigass levels that you could wander around in during and after questlines. Mass 1 --the other game they're taking inspiration from-- was essentially the same, not in regards to major hubs being on the uncharted worlds, but that the vast majority of the hubs could be revisted after you were done. Never played Inquisition. I'm going off the old Mass Effect games and how people have an issue/worried about ME:A turning out to be similar to DA:I. And many people are either for more exploration, side quests, free roam, etc as opposed to the hand holding linear story of ME3
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Post by projectpatdc on Feb 16, 2017 4:11:25 GMT
Should of had an option with a little of both. As I've already stated, they're not mutually exclusive concepts. The game will likely be both just like Dragon Age Inquisition and Mass Effect 1 were both. I realize their not mutually exclusive. It's going on the fact of whether you want the open world hybrid or would rather have the straight cut of ME2 and ME3.
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Post by projectpatdc on Feb 16, 2017 4:12:15 GMT
Should of had an option with a little of both. That would be the second option with the open world and story hybrid.
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Post by Cypher on Feb 16, 2017 4:16:22 GMT
But what does that have to do with Andromeda, especially if Andromeda is taking after DA:I in regards to level design? All major hubs in Inquisition were slapped in the middle of bigass levels that you could wander around in during and after questlines. Mass 1 --the other game they're taking inspiration from-- was essentially the same, not in regards to major hubs being on the uncharted worlds, but that the vast majority of the hubs could be revisted after you were done. Never played Inquisition. I'm going off the old Mass Effect games and how people have an issue/worried about ME:A turning out to be similar to DA:I. And many people are either for more exploration, side quests, free roam, etc as opposed to the hand holding linear story of ME3 People are only concerned about ME:A turning out like DA:I in regards to the vast majority of sidequests being "go here, collect X, and then come back for a prompt on your screen that says quest complete". Something like that is entirely independent of a game being open world, sandbox, or anything else since those types of quests made up the bulk of ME3. But none of that matters since everything we've seen so far and everything Bioware has said so far points to Andromeda being more like ME1, and DA:I than either of the latter two trilogy games. As I've already stated, they're not mutually exclusive concepts. The game will likely be both just like Dragon Age Inquisition and Mass Effect 1 were both. I realize their not mutually exclusive. It's going on the fact of whether you want the open world hybrid or would rather have the straight cut of ME2 and ME3. Whether or not a game is open world or not has nothing to do with how linear or how not linear a game is. ME2 could have the bigass planets ME1 had with nothing else changing and the game would've literally turned out exactly the same.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 4:18:29 GMT
Never played Inquisition. I'm going off the old Mass Effect games and how people have an issue/worried about ME:A turning out to be similar to DA:I. And many people are either for more exploration, side quests, free roam, etc as opposed to the hand holding linear story of ME3 People are only concerned about ME:A turning out like DA:I in regards to the vast majority of sidequests being "go here, collect X, and then come back for a prompt on your screen that says quest complete". Something like that is entirely independent of a game being open world, sandbox, or anything else since those types of quests made up the bulk of ME3. But none of that matters since everything we've seen so far and everything Bioware has said so far points to Andromeda being more like ME1, and DA:I than either of the latter two trilogy games. We were told the side quests would be meaningful and they used Witcher 3 as an inspiration.
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Post by derrame on Feb 16, 2017 4:19:39 GMT
we already know that this game is no open world, so that is a good thing because it can be focused on the stosry adn character and more and better content isntead of huge boring maps
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Post by projectpatdc on Feb 16, 2017 4:19:39 GMT
Never played Inquisition. I'm going off the old Mass Effect games and how people have an issue/worried about ME:A turning out to be similar to DA:I. And many people are either for more exploration, side quests, free roam, etc as opposed to the hand holding linear story of ME3 People are only concerned about ME:A turning out like DA:I in regards to the vast majority of sidequests being "go here, collect X, and then come back for a prompt on your screen that says quest complete". Something like that is entirely independent of a game being open world, sandbox, or anything else since those types of quests made up the bulk of ME3. But none of that matters since everything we've seen so far and everything Bioware has said so far points to Andromeda being more like ME1, and DA:I than either of the latter two trilogy games. I guess we'll see. So far people are voting against wanting that structure which is interesting because the backlash from the community was a big reason for the changes from ME1 to ME2. And the person who posted above me obviously doesn't get it. People still want it to be story focused
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 4:21:04 GMT
People are only concerned about ME:A turning out like DA:I in regards to the vast majority of sidequests being "go here, collect X, and then come back for a prompt on your screen that says quest complete". Something like that is entirely independent of a game being open world, sandbox, or anything else since those types of quests made up the bulk of ME3. But none of that matters since everything we've seen so far and everything Bioware has said so far points to Andromeda being more like ME1, and DA:I than either of the latter two trilogy games. I guess we'll see. So far people are voting against wanting that structure which is interesting because the backlash from the community was a big reason for the changes from ME1 to ME2 Problem is ME1 and 2 were back in those days before open worlds were old news. Now it's been done already and it didn't go over quite as well as people thought it would.
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Post by Cypher on Feb 16, 2017 4:22:11 GMT
People are only concerned about ME:A turning out like DA:I in regards to the vast majority of sidequests being "go here, collect X, and then come back for a prompt on your screen that says quest complete". Something like that is entirely independent of a game being open world, sandbox, or anything else since those types of quests made up the bulk of ME3. But none of that matters since everything we've seen so far and everything Bioware has said so far points to Andromeda being more like ME1, and DA:I than either of the latter two trilogy games. We were told the side quests would be meaningful and they used Witcher 3 as an inspiration. I know that, but it's also a fact that's irrelevant to my point. When everyone first saw that Andromeda was space Inquisition, side quests were a prime concern. The fact that it's no longer a (significant) concern doesn't change the fact that it was something people were worried about.
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Post by projectpatdc on Feb 16, 2017 4:23:30 GMT
we already know that this game is no open world, so that is a good thing because it can be focused on the stosry adn character and more and better content isntead of huge boring maps It's not one giant sand, box but it does have large open world segments to explore along with many side quests like Dragon Age (but more meaningful to separate stories).
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Post by rudelove on Feb 16, 2017 4:23:33 GMT
I usually think a more linear approach is better for rpg focused games but I do like a little bit of open world thrown in! I don't want the hybrid DA:I had, but the right amount of openness could really make an impression. Aside from the story, ME:A's goal is also exploration - I want to be able to feel that, but only if the places we explore are bountiful and not boring/dead or repetitive.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 4:24:50 GMT
We were told the side quests would be meaningful and they used Witcher 3 as an inspiration. I know that, but it's also a fact that's irrelevant to my point. When everyone first saw that Andromeda was space Inquisition, side quests were a prime concern. The fact that it's no longer a (significant) concern doesn't change the fact that it was something people were worried about. I know. That's why I think this open world want died out long ago. People didn't want an open world, they wanted a world large enough to explore, but wasn't empty or had pointless fetch quests. Once they said that those types of things were gone, I have yet to see a lot of people demand MEA to be open world.
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Post by lextrags on Feb 16, 2017 4:25:49 GMT
I am so glad they are not taking a direct design route from Bethesda games, I have never enjoyed their "Create your own story, so we don't have to" approach. Call me a heathen, but I did not enjoy any projects they have released...
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Post by projectpatdc on Feb 16, 2017 4:27:50 GMT
I usually think a more linear approach is better for rpg focused games but I do like a little bit of open world thrown in! I don't want the hybrid DA:I had, but the right amount of openness could really make an impression. Aside from the story, ME:A's goal is also exploration - I want to be able to feel that, but only if the places we explore are bountiful and not boring/dead or repetitive. I want some areas to feel dead, vast and empty because we're exploring unknown worlds in outer space, not established civilizations everywhere. Agree on eliminating the repetitiveness. Each location/mission should unique. Not 20 deliver this package mission or clear out this same looking outpost that I've seen on 5 other worlds.
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Post by Cypher on Feb 16, 2017 4:32:21 GMT
I know that, but it's also a fact that's irrelevant to my point. When everyone first saw that Andromeda was space Inquisition, side quests were a prime concern. The fact that it's no longer a (significant) concern doesn't change the fact that it was something people were worried about. I know. That's why I think this open world want died out long ago. People didn't want an open world, they wanted a world large enough to explore, but wasn't empty or had pointless fetch quests. Once they said that those types of things were gone, I have yet to see a lot of people demand MEA to be open world. Inquisition's major issue were the fetch quests. If they fixed that, but kept the random dungeons (which they probably did based on Remnant vaults) random wildlife (they did), and random enemy spawns on the map (I hope they did), then those in combination with the reworking of sidequests to where they're not a seemingly infinite supply of fetch quests, then there's no issues. What people don't want is MMORPG style space padding; something that has nothing to do with whether or not levels are confined spaces or big environments since ME3 did MMORPG style quests while being a corridor shooter. People aren't against open world games, they're against fake sandboxes.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 4:36:58 GMT
I know. That's why I think this open world want died out long ago. People didn't want an open world, they wanted a world large enough to explore, but wasn't empty or had pointless fetch quests. Once they said that those types of things were gone, I have yet to see a lot of people demand MEA to be open world. Inquisition's major issue were the fetch quests. If they fixed that, but kept the random dungeons (which they probably did based on Remnant vaults) random wildlife (they did), and random enemy spawns on the map (I hope they did), then those in combination with the reworking of sidequests to where they're not a seemingly infinite supply of fetch quests, then there's no issues. What people don't want is MMORPG style space padding; something that has nothing to do with whether or not levels are confined spaces or big environments since ME3 did MMORPG style quests while being a corridor shooter. People aren't against open world games, they're against fake sandboxes. I admit I am a bit concerned with how they implied our journal will be overflowing with quests. If done right, that's fine with me, but did they really make a ton of quests and each and every one significant? Seems a bit of a stretch to me, so I think some quests might still be meaningless and skipped by some. And I agree with what you've said btw.
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Post by Cypher on Feb 16, 2017 4:49:07 GMT
Inquisition's major issue were the fetch quests. If they fixed that, but kept the random dungeons (which they probably did based on Remnant vaults) random wildlife (they did), and random enemy spawns on the map (I hope they did), then those in combination with the reworking of sidequests to where they're not a seemingly infinite supply of fetch quests, then there's no issues. What people don't want is MMORPG style space padding; something that has nothing to do with whether or not levels are confined spaces or big environments since ME3 did MMORPG style quests while being a corridor shooter. People aren't against open world games, they're against fake sandboxes. I admit I am a bit concerned with how they implied our journal will be overflowing with quests. If done right, that's fine with me, but did they really make a ton of quests and each and every one significant? Seems a bit of a stretch to me, so I think some quests might still be meaningless and skipped by some. And I agree with what you've said btw. Unlnless they heavily compressed the audio and spent the bulk of the last five years making a shit ton of sidequests, there's no way for the journal to overflow without there being a bunch of "go kill X 15 times and get 30 rocks for me" to go along with the sidequests with plots. I'm perfectly fine with that give and take, because sometimes I just want to wander around and kill things, lol.
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Post by projectpatdc on Feb 16, 2017 4:51:02 GMT
I admit I am a bit concerned with how they implied our journal will be overflowing with quests. If done right, that's fine with me, but did they really make a ton of quests and each and every one significant? Seems a bit of a stretch to me, so I think some quests might still be meaningless and skipped by some. And I agree with what you've said btw. Which is completely ok because they don't miss out on anything important, and it still provides more meat to the game for others who want more. Without even the meaningless side quests, walking around the open areas after you beat the game would seem even more dead.
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Post by rudelove on Feb 16, 2017 5:11:38 GMT
I want some areas to feel dead, vast and empty because we're exploring unknown worlds in outer space, not established civilizations everywhere. Agree on eliminating the repetitiveness. Each location/mission should unique. Not 20 deliver this package mission or clear out this same looking outpost that I've seen on 5 other worlds. Ahh I have to agree with that, but only in very certain situations. I don't think I can stand another 'The Western approach' or 'The hissing wastes' from DA:i, although they looked very pretty.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 5:15:52 GMT
I want some areas to feel dead, vast and empty because we're exploring unknown worlds in outer space, not established civilizations everywhere. Agree on eliminating the repetitiveness. Each location/mission should unique. Not 20 deliver this package mission or clear out this same looking outpost that I've seen on 5 other worlds. Ahh I have to agree with that, but only in very certain situations. I don't think I can stand another 'The Western approach' or 'The hissing wastes' from DA:i, although they looked very pretty. lol agreed! It was like no matter how fast or far you ran, nothing was coming closer! So much unnecessary running and gaps between locations. That's what made me tire of it when I did a completionist playthrough.
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Post by projectpatdc on Feb 16, 2017 5:22:16 GMT
I want some areas to feel dead, vast and empty because we're exploring unknown worlds in outer space, not established civilizations everywhere. Agree on eliminating the repetitiveness. Each location/mission should unique. Not 20 deliver this package mission or clear out this same looking outpost that I've seen on 5 other worlds. Ahh I have to agree with that, but only in very certain situations. I don't think I can stand another 'The Western approach' or 'The hissing wastes' from DA:i, although they looked very pretty. I think a big theme is the wild west (space revolvers, johnny cash music in the first trailer) but in outer space so....... Andromeda is the new frontier!
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Post by jrpN7 on Feb 16, 2017 6:34:51 GMT
I hate open worlds. They give me literal headaches and sore eyes because I just see it as one giant expanse for me to run around in. I also hate nothing more than spending two hours in a map running around and having the story progress nowhere. Dragon Age: Inqusition was born from my nightmares. My desire to explore insists I check every boulder, crevice and shrub in the massive map and yet it brings little enjoyment since theres little engagement. Linear stories where the maps are small but has direction and engagement is simply more enjoyable because my brain is simply stimulated. In summary: Open world: no stimulation. Linear world: stimulation.
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