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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2017 22:37:36 GMT
They actually updated Sara's design? I admit, I wasn't expecting them to actually listen. All they did was to change camera angle & lighting, and give the model a different posture. The design wasn't updated. Sometimes I wonder whether some people are able to identify themselves in two different photographs.
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Post by kaind on Feb 19, 2017 22:41:09 GMT
Delicious double standards. I enjoy talking "the game" itself with you, but our "standards" on other things are clearly miles apart. I have no double standards; just my standards. If I seem like some ultra-conservative weirdo with double standards because of the above interaction, I'm okay with that. Hopefully, we'll still have enjoyable conversations about MEA. Obviously I have standards in my life, but this is just game, this is where people get to live how they cannot in real life and have fun. Just look for a second at what we are allowed to do in this games: DA:origins - let a bunch of people rape our betrothed and cousin for money, Kotor - mind control people into committing suicide, even the regular stuff like stealing everything from everyone and just murdering thousands upon thousands, very often for no good reason. But then suddenly pedophilia is so much more evil, we cannot allow that in video games, think of the children! I'm not a pedophile btw, if that thought somehow sinked into your head, but I do love my freedom in games very much, and I believe that if I want MY freedom I should not deny it to someone else who has different ideas on how to use that freedom. I honestly believe that the more freedom and options you have the higher quality of roleplay you can have, and you don't always have roleplay a character that would do what YOU would do.
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Post by Element Zero on Feb 19, 2017 22:53:29 GMT
I enjoy talking "the game" itself with you, but our "standards" on other things are clearly miles apart. I have no double standards; just my standards. If I seem like some ultra-conservative weirdo with double standards because of the above interaction, I'm okay with that. Hopefully, we'll still have enjoyable conversations about MEA. Obviously I have standards in my life, but this is just game, this is where people get to live how they cannot in real life and have fun. Just look for a second at what we are allowed to do in this games: DA:origins - let a bunch of people rape our betrothed and cousin for money, Kotor - mind control people into committing suicide, even the regular stuff like stealing everything from everyone and just murdering thousands upon thousands, very often for no good reason. But then suddenly pedophilia is so much more evil, we cannot allow that in video games, think of the children! I'm not a pedophile btw, if that thought somehow sinked into your head, but I do love my freedom in games very much, and I believe that if I want MY freedom I should not deny it to someone else who has different ideas on how to use that freedom. I honestly believe that the more freedom and options you have the higher quality of roleplay you can have, and you don't always have roleplay a character that would do what YOU would do. I assumed you're not a pedo. I just disagree that actual pedos should be allowed to live out their fantasies via VGs. Such empowerment impels them to act in real life, rather than dulling or sating their sick desires. This is not really a conversation for this thread, though. I agree that RP should be reasonably open. These characters can do a great many things that we'd never do in real life, as you say. I abstain from a few of these options because they're just not my cup of tea, even if they aren't nearly as far beyond the pale as the example Nashimura introduced into the discussion. Some things are just too far. Sex crimes and crimes against children are generally considered across that line, and I absolutely agree with that thinking. My personal line is probably less lenient, but I generally try to only police my own choices.
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Post by projectpatdc on Feb 19, 2017 22:55:26 GMT
So Sara looks great now (Liked her before too though). I think she looks 10x better the fem shepard but that's just my opinion. I wish there was more of an outcry about Cora though since you know, we can't actually do anything to adjust her looks unlike Sara......... I don't particularly like the hair style (more into the long wavy brunettes and occasional gingers), but it's growing on me. I just wish her face looked, i dunno, younger? Maybe it's just Character kits, and I'll probably still fall for her. I just hope she has a kick ass personality that compliments Scott. I'd rather romance a squad mate who is around all the time, but if there's a particular hot honey on the Nexus, I guess I can fly there on the weekends like I do in real life anyways
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Post by Cyonan on Feb 19, 2017 23:00:18 GMT
I agree with all of this but there are guys that are runners too and light weight. This is not exclusive to women or anyone really. I just for once wanted for both to be on the same thematic for body strength. Idk I would like someone more close to Sarah Williams or at least some options for everyone, so I do not get stuck over and over again with lean bodies for women. That's fine enough to ask for, although that is unfortunately where the "They're making both characters to look attractive" comes in. I know people have their preferences but looking at averages, muscles are more attractive on men then they are on women. Having a choice is always nice but I suppose they didn't want to create all the extra models needed to do it for both Scott and Sara(it seemed like they were already struggling with some animations only having the one model for each, to be honest). Though in all likelihood Sara is still athletic, just with a lean body instead of a buff one. It at least makes more sense for Sara than for FemShep who was actually a soldier and not an explorer.
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Post by kaind on Feb 19, 2017 23:00:37 GMT
I assumed you're not a pedo. I just disagree that actual pedos should be allowed to live out their fantasies via VGs. Such empowerment impels them to act in real life, rather than dulling or sating their sick desires. This is not really a conversation for this thread, though. I agree that RP should be reasonably open. These characters can do a great many things that we'd never do in real life, as you say. I abstain from a few of these options because they're just not my cup of tea, even if they aren't nearly as far beyond the pale as the example Nashimura introduced into the discussion. Some things are just too far. Sex crimes and crimes against children are generally considered across that line, and I absolutely agree with that thinking. My personal line is probably less lenient, but I generally try to only police my own choices. This is exactly the same kind of logic like that strawman that suggests that we all should start killing people in real life very soon, since we kill so many in video games, video games make us violent right? Do you just draw the line on what you personally think is too far, or how do you come to the conclusion of where the line is? And do you really feel like sex crimes are worse than torture and murder? Also I guess if you don't want to continue the conversation here you you can stop, or pm me.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2017 23:02:11 GMT
I'm worried I got eye herpes after skimming over that pamphlet. Damn. Indeed, which is why i hate the Internet now. Everything is about politics. And its mostly that if you like something that others are intent on trashing you're a beta male sjw cuck! Its great! Maybe i am weird, but i would much rather be with a woman who looks like Sara, than someone that looks like Miranda, Morrigan, Ashley etc.
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Post by Element Zero on Feb 19, 2017 23:07:20 GMT
So Sara looks great now (Liked her before too though). I think she looks 10x better the fem shepard but that's just my opinion. I wish there was more of an outcry about Cora though since you know, we can't actually do anything to adjust her looks unlike Sara......... I don't particularly like the hair style (more into the long wavy brunettes and occasional gingers), but it's growing on me. I just wish her face looked, i dunno, younger? Maybe it's just Character kits, and I'll probably still fall for her. I just hope she has a kick ass personality that compliments Scott. I'd rather romance a squad mate who is around all the time, but if there's a particular hot honey on the Nexus, I guess I can fly there on the weekends like I do in real life anyways Let's not wish for a Cora uprising! I'm not a fan of her hair, but she looks okay, otherwise. She looks lifelike, and that's what I'm looking for in a character. I'd assumed, based upon rank, that she has a few years on the twins. That's likely why she looks a tad older. I'd not given it any thought, really, until you mentioned it. They all look young and smooth-faced, to me. Those kits aren't great. The devs said that they aren't yet familiar or skilled with the tech. If they redid Cora and Liam, as they did Scott and Sara, I'm sure the former would look improved. We can't put much stock in those kits. They're for cosplayers, essentially, not to represent game experience. Cora looks way better in-game, to me, as does everyone else ( except Sara).
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Mihura
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Mihura on Feb 19, 2017 23:11:52 GMT
I agree with all of this but there are guys that are runners too and light weight. This is not exclusive to women or anyone really. I just for once wanted for both to be on the same thematic for body strength. Idk I would like someone more close to Sarah Williams or at least some options for everyone, so I do not get stuck over and over again with lean bodies for women. That's fine enough to ask for, although that is unfortunately where the "They're making both characters to look attractive" comes in. I know people have their preferences but looking at averages, muscles are more attractive on men then they are on women. Having a choice is always nice but I suppose they didn't want to create all the extra models needed to do it for both Scott and Sara(it seemed like they were already struggling with some animations only having the one model for each, to be honest). Though in all likelihood Sara is still athletic, just with a lean body instead of a buff one. It at least makes more sense for Sara than for FemShep who was actually a soldier and not an explorer. Yes I agree, although Sara was still enlisted in the Systems Alliance military. I guess her work was more light than an N7. I think in the end I just hate how restrictive is the whole concept of beauty for women, and the devs do not stray from it even when it makes sense lore wise for Shepard for example. At least Fallout 4 did something right on that regard.
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Post by ToLazy4Name on Feb 19, 2017 23:12:00 GMT
what if the child consents tho
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Post by projectpatdc on Feb 19, 2017 23:15:59 GMT
Let's not wish for a Cora uprising! I'm not a fan of her hair, but she looks okay, otherwise. She looks lifelike, and that's what I'm looking for in a character. I'd assumed, based upon rank, that she has a few years on the twins. That's likely why she looks a tad older. I'd not given it any thought, really, until you mentioned it. They all look young and smooth-faced, to me. Those kits aren't great. The devs said that they aren't yet familiar or skilled with the tech. If they redid Cora and Liam, as they did Scott and Sara, I'm sure the former would look improved. We can't put much stock in those kits. They're for cosplayers, essentially, not to represent game experience. Cora looks way better in-game, to me, as does everyone else ( except Sara). I started a somewhat....passive thread in under the Characters and Romance section. Seems to be a completely different crowd. bsn.boards.net/thread/4183/customizing-squad-mates-appearancesYeah, age is hard to determine with Cora. (off topic) I have a theory on her that she's almost like another daughter to Alec. I'm pretty sure she is Jack Harper's daughter, and Jack and Alec may have been friends during the first contact wars. I don't think there's any mal intentions by cerberus being planned (Cerberus is like a lobbyist group with guns so to think there's no involvement by them in the intiative at all is naive), but I think the Illusive man may have personally been involved to make sure she goes with Alec (leaving the Asari commandos). So she probably is around the twins' age but maybe slightly older.
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Post by Trilobite Derby on Feb 19, 2017 23:16:20 GMT
what if the child consents tho Name.... Uh. Wrong thread. I hope. If I don't cosplay default Sarah Ryder at least once, I feel like I'll be missing an opportunity.
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Post by ToLazy4Name on Feb 19, 2017 23:17:23 GMT
what if the child consents tho Name.... Uh. Wrong thread. BUT WHAT IF
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Post by Trilobite Derby on Feb 19, 2017 23:19:42 GMT
Then... They can call Sarah Ryder ugly too, I guess. If they want. They'd be wrong though.
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Post by sgtreed24 on Feb 19, 2017 23:20:39 GMT
She looks great, I mean just look at who she's modeled after... there's no way she wouldn't look good.
Plus, most of the doubts I had (proportion wise... from the kits they released) were pretty much done away with once I saw her in that latest gameplay series video. She looked really good there to me.
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Post by sgtreed24 on Feb 19, 2017 23:22:51 GMT
I think she looks 10x better the fem shepard but that's just my opinion. This. She is by far a better female default character than any of the femsheps were.
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Post by Dark King on Feb 19, 2017 23:28:28 GMT
My response to that article more or less.
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Post by twalicious on Feb 19, 2017 23:32:26 GMT
I appreciate your post OP! Though, I mean, it wasn't really her facial features but the textures and that stare thing she had going on with her eyes. I mean, that is made of nightmare juice. Her permanent smile adds to the sketch too lol
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Post by Cyonan on Feb 19, 2017 23:33:04 GMT
Yes I agree, although Sara was still enlisted in the Systems Alliance military. I guess her work was more light than an N7. I think in the end I just hate how restrictive is the whole concept of beauty for women, and the devs do not stray from it even when it makes sense lore wise for Shepard for example. At least Fallout 4 did something right on that regard. I could go pretty in-depth into a lot of the why of the restrictions on that are, but that's for another thread. Given BioWare's standard for being the "inclusive RPG developer" these days I wouldn't actually be surprised if in future games you were able to pick body type of your character. This time around though they have noted they've struggled a bit with the tech since this is the first time the Mass Effect team has worked with the Frostbite engine. It'll be easier for them to create more models as they get more experienced and don't have to spend so much time polishing everything to not create the horribly uncanny valley facial animations we've seen in Sara(and Scott to an extent) in previous trailers. I also have to imagine both Scott and Sara may have suffered from a bit of muscle atrophy while in stasis. I wonder if they're even going to address that or if they'll just say "they were designed to not have that issue".
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2017 23:34:43 GMT
I also have to imagine both Scott and Sara may have suffered from a bit of muscle atrophy while in stasis. I wonder if they're even going to address that or if they'll just say "they were designed to not have that issue". Nah, they should be alright. The capsules were inside mass effect fields in any case.
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Post by ToLazy4Name on Feb 19, 2017 23:36:45 GMT
Then... They can call Sarah Ryder ugly too, I guess. If they want. They'd be wrong though. not if the child consents
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“Major Wulf Khan and the 903rd Catachan ‘Night Shrikes’…”
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Mihura on Feb 19, 2017 23:37:10 GMT
Yes I agree, although Sara was still enlisted in the Systems Alliance military. I guess her work was more light than an N7. I think in the end I just hate how restrictive is the whole concept of beauty for women, and the devs do not stray from it even when it makes sense lore wise for Shepard for example. At least Fallout 4 did something right on that regard. I could go pretty in-depth into a lot of the why of the restrictions on that are, but that's for another thread. Given BioWare's standard for being the "inclusive RPG developer" these days I wouldn't actually be surprised if in future games you were able to pick body type of your character. This time around though they have noted they've struggled a bit with the tech since this is the first time the Mass Effect team has worked with the Frostbite engine. It'll be easier for them to create more models as they get more experienced and don't have to spend so much time polishing everything to not create the horribly uncanny valley facial animations we've seen in Sara(and Scott to an extent) in previous trailers. I also have to imagine both Scott and Sara may have suffered from a bit of muscle atrophy while in stasis. I wonder if they're even going to address that or if they'll just say "they were designed to not have that issue".I know about the limitations but those really did not existed in the ME trilogy. I think is more a cultural thing, having lean female characters is just the norm and it is the default look. Also it is possible they will address the muscle atrophy, unless there is some magic lore reason for not having it.
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Post by Nashimura on Feb 19, 2017 23:46:23 GMT
Obviously I have standards in my life, but this is just game, this is where people get to live how they cannot in real life and have fun. Just look for a second at what we are allowed to do in this games: DA:origins - let a bunch of people rape our betrothed and cousin for money, Kotor - mind control people into committing suicide, even the regular stuff like stealing everything from everyone and just murdering thousands upon thousands, very often for no good reason. But then suddenly pedophilia is so much more evil, we cannot allow that in video games, think of the children! I'm not a pedophile btw, if that thought somehow sinked into your head, but I do love my freedom in games very much, and I believe that if I want MY freedom I should not deny it to someone else who has different ideas on how to use that freedom. I honestly believe that the more freedom and options you have the higher quality of roleplay you can have, and you don't always have roleplay a character that would do what YOU would do. I assumed you're not a pedo. I just disagree that actual pedos should be allowed to live out their fantasies via VGs. Such empowerment impels them to act in real life, rather than dulling or sating their sick desires. This is not really a conversation for this thread, though. I agree that RP should be reasonably open. These characters can do a great many things that we'd never do in real life, as you say. I abstain from a few of these options because they're just not my cup of tea, even if they aren't nearly as far beyond the pale as the example Nashimura introduced into the discussion. Some things are just too far. Sex crimes and crimes against children are generally considered across that line, and I absolutely agree with that thinking. My personal line is probably less lenient, but I generally try to only police my own choices. I used it since i thought there was no way in hell anyone would consider it ok.... guess i was wrong.
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Post by Element Zero on Feb 19, 2017 23:47:03 GMT
Yes I agree, although Sara was still enlisted in the Systems Alliance military. I guess her work was more light than an N7. I think in the end I just hate how restrictive is the whole concept of beauty for women, and the devs do not stray from it even when it makes sense lore wise for Shepard for example. At least Fallout 4 did something right on that regard. I could go pretty in-depth into a lot of the why of the restrictions on that are, but that's for another thread. Given BioWare's standard for being the "inclusive RPG developer" these days I wouldn't actually be surprised if in future games you were able to pick body type of your character. This time around though they have noted they've struggled a bit with the tech since this is the first time the Mass Effect team has worked with the Frostbite engine. It'll be easier for them to create more models as they get more experienced and don't have to spend so much time polishing everything to not create the horribly uncanny valley facial animations we've seen in Sara(and Scott to an extent) in previous trailers. I also have to imagine both Scott and Sara may have suffered from a bit of muscle atrophy while in stasis. I wonder if they're even going to address that or if they'll just say "they were designed to not have that issue". If they were at complete metabolic rest, totally "frozen", then there'd be no atrophy. I can't imagine how they'd be able to survive a 600 year voyage unless atrophy was reduced to nearly zero. There are so many other processes, as well... better to just hand-wave it as a "total stasis". I look forward to greater customization in future games. I, like Mihura, would enjoy making a slightly more imposing female lead. I do like that Sara is different from what we've seen before, though. She looks more like an athlete than an underwear model, to me. I might be projecting a bit, since I'm a lean guy built similarly to Scott (maybe I'm taller), but one can be extremely athletic without being huge. That applies to men and women. The body customization issue was raised continuously on Twitter with Ian. He invariably answered, "Can't answer that, yet". I don't doubt that they tried to make it happen, but just had too much on their plates, as you say. They're aware of the fans' desire for the feature. Assuming we get another ME game, there's a decent chance they'll be able to add some body options for us.
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Post by commandercryptarch on Feb 19, 2017 23:47:45 GMT
I hate these kind of complaints too because they can get super annoying ,especially since it is something that wont affect gameplay. As a woman, seeing people insisting that default Sara is ugly kinda makes me think "If she is ugly ,then they think Jayde Rossi is ugly and if Jayde Rossi is ugly then...what does that make me?" and upon that dreadful realization I start to feel bad BUT then again I remember that people in general, tend to judge the looks of what they see on a screen -whether it be a video game character or even a celebrity- way harsher than they would judge a 'real person' because that is how the brain works for some reason, I know I am guilty of that too.Standards in real life and standards in make believe are different ,it is like our brains start functioning differently because we examine looks from different kind of lenses.
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