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Post by dutchsghost7 on Mar 8, 2017 17:26:46 GMT
All humans look Lebanese to me anyway. Lebs look very African too.
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Post by dutchsghost7 on Mar 8, 2017 17:27:22 GMT
Personally I wouldn't mind the majority being white. But I think Bioware wouldn't do this.
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Post by dutchsghost7 on Mar 8, 2017 17:29:11 GMT
I don't understand the fixation with race or diversity or whatever. I prefer to judge people on the content of their character rather than the color of their skin. Who's fixated? We're just observing that Bio's designers have been doing a poor job of matching the background characters to either a plausible projection of future population trends or to ME's own lore. It's not like they have to go out of their way to hire extras of different races. It's as easy to get this right as it is to get it wrong. Getting it wrong is a setting consistency fail. The charitable explanation is that Bio needs to match the demographics of their primary markets. The uncharitable explanation is that nobody there has thought about this. Most of the OT humans weren't white. Stop screeching that they were.
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Post by dutchsghost7 on Mar 8, 2017 17:34:25 GMT
I live in New York. Try again on your presumptions. Think again, buddy.
You live in the United States so you are the racial majority and nearly all characters are white so my assumption is correct. Even for a black man from Detroit nearly all characters on TV, movies, comics, etc. are white. On a state level whites make up the majority of NY residents. And narrowing down the field even more, based on boroughs, unless you live in the Bronx you are the racial majority. Don't you even know your own city's demographics?
It's easy for you to say, "What does it matter?", considering your group is the most represented. Your children aren't going to be shunning white dolls or feeling like some other race of people are better because all their heroes and they people they want to be like are non-white. You don't have to deal with any inferiority complex derived from being raised as a minority.
Boohooo. I used the think Anglos were superior to me but now I think they're just subhumans that got a lucky break in world conquest and technological advancement.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Mar 8, 2017 17:37:44 GMT
All humans look Lebanese to me anyway. Lebs look very African too. Naturally we look like everyone because everyone looks like us. We are the master race after all.
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Post by dutchsghost7 on Mar 8, 2017 17:48:45 GMT
No you're being unreasonable. You're suggesting that every instance of a "negative" portrayal of a character that is a minority is always done with some agenda in mind and that there is no other logical reason for this to occur. That is called a conspiracy theory. Conspiracy theories are out of touch with reality. They usually include people who like to wear tin foil hats and pretend that their remote control is a tricorder. Do you think Tupac is still alive? Do you think the moon landing was a hoax? Do you think juice bottles are making the frogs gay? If you do you might just be a conspiracy theorist. And if so there is little reason to take you seriously anymore. Have a nice day sir. No, i'm suggesting that the mass media is ignorant and callous enough to thoughtlessly portray non-whites in whatever subordinate capacity they see fit. Usually to the detriment of these characters. And you of course are numbly comfortable enough in your privilege to lap it all up. Let's take a little head count of the end states of every recognisable non-white characters in the ME Franchise shall we? Jacob - cheater Anderson - stereotypical black leader, also dead Udina - evil, dead Emily Wong - killed offscreen as part of a marketing campaign Kai Leng - Evil, loser, dead Kaleesa al-Jahlani - punched (twice) Name me one significant Black woman or Asian man (Kai Leng excepted for obvious reasons) in this series. Go on Udina was a white boi.
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Post by dutchsghost7 on Mar 8, 2017 17:50:02 GMT
Lebs look very African too. Naturally we look like everyone because everyone looks like us. We are the master race after all. Isn't Lebanon beside Somalia? Don't lebanese look like a mix of Somali and Ethiopian? I certainly don't look Lebanese.
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Post by hammerstorm on Mar 8, 2017 18:00:36 GMT
Naturally we look like everyone because everyone looks like us. We are the master race after all. Isn't Lebanon beside Somalia? Don't lebanese look like a mix of Somali and Ethiopian? I certainly don't look Lebanese. Sweden lies beside Finland, Norway and Denmark. That doesn't makes me less awesome.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Mar 8, 2017 18:17:03 GMT
Isn't Lebanon beside Somalia? Don't lebanese look like a mix of Somali and Ethiopian? I certainly don't look Lebanese. We lie on the crossroads of Europe, Africa, and Asia We are as close to Somalia as we are to Italy, Russia, and India. We don't look like anything, for we are a true melting pot of all races, cultures, and religions. Why do you think the country's a mess? With that much differences, nobody gets along
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Post by darcon on Mar 8, 2017 18:25:39 GMT
What people are forgetting is that you market to your largest demographic not a smaller one, I don't expect jrpgs to represent me in them so why should anyone else expect it anywhere else, they shouldn't. If your issue is there isn't enough diversity then the problem isn't the game but you. World of Warcraft mostly other spieces entirely doesn't matter, Horizon Zero Dawn again mostly white, doesn't matter, Neir Automata mostly Asian doesn't matter. It didn't matter before all this diversity crap happened it doesn't matter now and it won't matter in the future, I don't care about the color of skin background characters have I care about how well written the characters are. If this is caused by marketing, then yeah, we have to put up with it. We can't fire the players and appoint new ones. But, again, getting the demographics of the MEU wrong is a world-building error. The MEU, according to its own lore, should have different demographics than what we are observing in-game. If the lore said that, say, China and India had a thermonuclear war which devastated the populations of Asia, or even terrible economic setbacks which left the region unable to participate much in the Alliance, that would make what we're seeing consistent. But that didn't happen. Its not an error, for lore purposes they mention that there are others but because its a western studio aimed towards a western market the most shown will normally be white, but I don't care to much about seeing humans anyways I prefer the aliens, so much more interesting. Still one of my favorite scenes was the one cook saying "Have you tried Ramen, its a delicacy back on earth" good way to sell but what a load of crap
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 8, 2017 19:00:50 GMT
Who's fixated? We're just observing that Bio's designers have been doing a poor job of matching the background characters to either a plausible projection of future population trends or to ME's own lore. It's not like they have to go out of their way to hire extras of different races. It's as easy to get this right as it is to get it wrong. Getting it wrong is a setting consistency fail. The charitable explanation is that Bio needs to match the demographics of their primary markets. The uncharitable explanation is that nobody there has thought about this. Most of the OT humans weren't white. Stop screeching that they were. Stop lying. I never said any such thing. This is a silly post even by your standards.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 8, 2017 19:03:09 GMT
If this is caused by marketing, then yeah, we have to put up with it. We can't fire the players and appoint new ones. But, again, getting the demographics of the MEU wrong is a world-building error. The MEU, according to its own lore, should have different demographics than what we are observing in-game. If the lore said that, say, China and India had a thermonuclear war which devastated the populations of Asia, or even terrible economic setbacks which left the region unable to participate much in the Alliance, that would make what we're seeing consistent. But that didn't happen. Its not an error, for lore purposes they mention that there are others but because its a western studio aimed towards a western market the most shown will normally be white, but I don't care to much about seeing humans anyways I prefer the aliens, so much more interesting. Still one of my favorite scenes was the one cook saying "Have you tried Ramen, its a delicacy back on earth" good way to sell but what a load of crap Would you prefer "inconsistency" to "error?" I usually equate the concepts since an inconsistent world is worse than it could have been, but I suppose you can make a case that "error" is the wrong word for something done deliberately and with full understanding of the consequences.
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Post by SofaJockey on Mar 8, 2017 20:18:31 GMT
If folk want to (A) discuss racial diversity in Andromeda, be my guest. If this is going to ( drift into a general discussion on race then: - This can easily be moved to the Lobby,
- Or locked with a redirect to the 'Politics' thread.
If it stays as option (A) then it can stay.
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Post by shepherdcommander on Mar 8, 2017 20:52:37 GMT
I'll do my part to pull this towards (A): I had done tons of math a long time ago for Generation Ships, these come in classes, colony-class generation ships have just enough people onboard to support the genetic diversity necessary to negate the negative effects of inbreeding indefinitely IF the breeding population is controlled (i.e. you do not get to choose who you reproduce with, and all men and women must necessarily reproduce). this figure comes out to as low as 2k, but 10k is the generally accepted estimated number. it seems to me that adromeda knew this and simply doubled the population to 20k as a failsafe and to give some credence to offset factions which could each be as low in number as 2k population. world-class generation ships are large enough to transport and indefinitely support hundreds of thousand or millions of people; the Nexus could be a generation worldship except that it is not supporting a single species but at least 6, one third of whom require a completely separate dextro-based environment. as others have said, it would not take long for a population of 20k to turn into goobacks, thats just a fact of life. If populations were in the hundreds of thousands or millions, it would be possible for traits to remain dominant among certain groups for extended periods, even indefinitely. andromeda will turn into goobacks unless they can re-establish connection with the milky way, or unless the 20k figure on the hyperion is dwarfed by the 200k+ people on the nexus. there is a way for people to survive with much smaller populations. there is a civilization, I forget the name off the top of my head, of only a few hundred people on some islands. they are cut off from the rest of the world and in order to survive they inbreed A LOT. they have a TON of still births and most of the children who survive birth do not survive to sexual maturity. the ones that DO survive to sexual maturity are almost always 100% healthy!! this is the ultimate 'survival of the fittest' that humans today experience. edit: looks like people are really focused on ( might wanna close it. edi2: I see people are talking about the low chance of black female LIs... I will tell you right now, as a straight white man, I would prefer a long haired pretty black woman to cora. any. day. of. the. week.
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Post by cloud9 on Mar 8, 2017 21:06:14 GMT
I don't understand the fixation with race or diversity or whatever. I prefer to judge people on the content of their character rather than the color of their skin. Uh-huh..
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Post by Cirvante on Mar 8, 2017 21:09:36 GMT
I hope we get a black female squadmate in the future games. I would like that very much. That will never happen. We had Vivienne in DAI, so it could happen.
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Post by pixiqui on Mar 8, 2017 21:10:55 GMT
I hope we get a black female squadmate in the future games. I would like that very much. Yea I've noticed that too. I've seen black male companions/love interests but I hardly see black female companions/love interests in video games I don't think I can even name one off the top of my head. I'm not saying there aren't any, but i hardly see it and we haven't had one in mass effect yet but hopefully we'll get one in the future.
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I'm sorry. Yes. Energy field good.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ByteHalf
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Post by glitch89 on Mar 8, 2017 21:15:28 GMT
I hope we get a black female squadmate in the future games. I would like that very much. Yea I've noticed that too. I've seen black male companions/love interests but I hardly see black female companions/love interests in video games I don't think I can even name one off the top of my head. I'm not saying there aren't any, but i hardly see it and we haven't had one in mass effect yet but hopefully we'll get one in the future. I hope we get one in the near future, but I don't think it's likely. Probably a 0% to 3% chance that will happen.
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Post by pixiqui on Mar 8, 2017 21:19:32 GMT
Yea I've noticed that too. I've seen black male companions/love interests but I hardly see black female companions/love interests in video games I don't think I can even name one off the top of my head. I'm not saying there aren't any, but i hardly see it and we haven't had one in mass effect yet but hopefully we'll get one in the future. I hope we get one in the near future, but I don't think it's likely. Probably a 0% to 3% chance that will happen. I think it's possible. why do you think there's such a small chance?
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Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
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Post by linksocarina on Mar 8, 2017 21:34:03 GMT
I live in New York. Try again on your presumptions. Think again, buddy.
You live in the United States so you are the racial majority and nearly all characters are white so my assumption is correct. Even for a black man from Detroit nearly all characters on TV, movies, comics, etc. are white. On a state level whites make up the majority of NY residents. And narrowing down the field even more, based on boroughs, unless you live in the Bronx you are the racial majority. Don't you even know your own city's demographics?
It's easy for you to say, "What does it matter?", considering your group is the most represented. Your children aren't going to be shunning white dolls or feeling like some other race of people are better because all their heroes and they people they want to be like are non-white. You don't have to deal with any inferiority complex derived from being raised as a minority.
If you have an inferiority complex due to race, the problem is in yourself for presuming an attack everywhere you go. Such pre-judgements are made on yourself because of skin color, and not the passer-by in the street. You know so little about me, and apparently so little about New York (narrowing down demographics of the boroughs is irrelevant, this is a city where you can have ten conversations in twenty languages down a street block on a daily basis, regardless of where you live) yet you choose to presume a LOT about something said in the context of a very irrelevent question about a video game. I wonder what sociology text it came from; it sounds like a poor attempt at intersectional analysis that presumes where one lives defines their outlook on social topics. Here is why it doesn't matter in the context of the game- they are all humans and racial hangups are irrelevant to them when aliens are walking around, and have been irrelevant for the whole series. Here is why it shouldn't matter in real life- we are all humans playing a videogame where we can choose that representation as need be for ourselves. The issue of race only becomes an issue when folks like yourself make it one. Doesn't matter if you are black or white to me, you're arguing something based on the presumption of an attack. Your assumptions are not only wrong, but dangerously on the verge of presuming non-whites all suffer from an inferiority complex because of racial hangups. Perhaps you should choose your words more carefully, or get over your own apparent hangups that you may have. As for me, I am going to enjoy a video game when it releases and not give a fuck about what the color of your skin is. Maybe you should too.
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Post by Cirvante on Mar 8, 2017 21:58:43 GMT
I hope we get one in the near future, but I don't think it's likely. Probably a 0% to 3% chance that will happen. I think it's possible. why do you think there's such a small chance? Main audience is white males and many of them might not want a black female love interest. If you look at dating site statistics, you'll find out that black females are usually the least desired group of people. So they'd have to create another (white) female love interest to cater to their main audience. Which may not be feasible when they also want to add x number of aliens to the crew and cap the total number at 6. When one of their main selling points is their characters, they need to make sure to hit their target audiences. And if they don't then I'm sure at some point during the creative process a suit from EA will tell them to. The same goes for the overrepresentation of white people, realism simply has to take a backseat due to marketing.
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N3
I'm sorry. Yes. Energy field good.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ByteHalf
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Post by glitch89 on Mar 8, 2017 22:00:04 GMT
Think again, buddy.
You live in the United States so you are the racial majority and nearly all characters are white so my assumption is correct. Even for a black man from Detroit nearly all characters on TV, movies, comics, etc. are white. On a state level whites make up the majority of NY residents. And narrowing down the field even more, based on boroughs, unless you live in the Bronx you are the racial majority. Don't you even know your own city's demographics?
It's easy for you to say, "What does it matter?", considering your group is the most represented. Your children aren't going to be shunning white dolls or feeling like some other race of people are better because all their heroes and they people they want to be like are non-white. You don't have to deal with any inferiority complex derived from being raised as a minority.
If you have an inferiority complex due to race, the problem is in yourself for presuming an attack everywhere you go. Such pre-judgements are made on yourself because of skin color, and not the passer-by in the street. You know so little about me, and apparently so little about New York (narrowing down demographics of the boroughs is irrelevant, this is a city where you can have ten conversations in twenty languages down a street block on a daily basis, regardless of where you live) yet you choose to presume a LOT about something said in the context of a very irrelevent question about a video game. I wonder what sociology text it came from; it sounds like a poor attempt at intersectional analysis that presumes where one lives defines their outlook on social topics. Here is why it doesn't matter in the context of the game- they are all humans and racial hangups are irrelevant to them when aliens are walking around, and have been irrelevant for the whole series. Here is why it shouldn't matter in real life- we are all humans playing a videogame where we can choose that representation as need be for ourselves. The issue of race only becomes an issue when folks like yourself make it one. Doesn't matter if you are black or white to me, you're arguing something based on the presumption of an attack. Your assumptions are not only wrong, but dangerously on the verge of presuming non-whites all suffer from an inferiority complex because of racial hangups. Perhaps you should choose your words more carefully, or get over your own apparent hangups that you may have. As for me, I am going to enjoy a video game when it releases and not give a fuck about what the color of your skin is. Maybe you should too. That just how video games are period. You won't find a lot black female characters as important characters/squadmates in most video games. I don't think Bioware is any different. You got Vivienne as a squadmate in DA:I, that's about it. I don't feel like that's going to change anytime soon. Doesn't bother me much, it is what it is. The thread is about racial diversity in Andromeda and I just mentioned it as something I would like to see in the future, being that Mass Effect is my favorite franchise out of the two.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 8, 2017 22:09:47 GMT
I'll do my part to pull this towards (A): I had done tons of math a long time ago for Generation Ships, these come in classes, colony-class generation ships have just enough people onboard to support the genetic diversity necessary to negate the negative effects of inbreeding indefinitely IF the breeding population is controlled (i.e. you do not get to choose who you reproduce with, and all men and women must necessarily reproduce). this figure comes out to as low as 2k, but 10k is the generally accepted estimated number. it seems to me that adromeda knew this and simply doubled the population to 20k as a failsafe and to give some credence to offset factions which could each be as low in number as 2k population. world-class generation ships are large enough to transport and indefinitely support hundreds of thousand or millions of people; the Nexus could be a generation worldship except that it is not supporting a single species but at least 6, one third of whom require a completely separate dextro-based environment. as others have said, it would not take long for a population of 20k to turn into goobacks, thats just a fact of life. If populations were in the hundreds of thousands or millions, it would be possible for traits to remain dominant among certain groups for extended periods, even indefinitely. andromeda will turn into goobacks unless they can re-establish connection with the milky way, or unless the 20k figure on the hyperion is dwarfed by the 200k+ people on the nexus. there is a way for people to survive with much smaller populations. there is a civilization, I forget the name off the top of my head, of only a few hundred people on some islands. they are cut off from the rest of the world and in order to survive they inbreed A LOT. they have a TON of still births and most of the children who survive birth do not survive to sexual maturity. the ones that DO survive to sexual maturity are almost always 100% healthy!! this is the ultimate 'survival of the fittest' that humans today experience. edit: looks like people are really focused on ( might wanna close it. Interesting, but nobody's using generation ships. The whole project works on stasis pods, so this is a discussion for sequels. What's the etymology of "goobacks," anyway?
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Post by amleth on Mar 8, 2017 22:16:50 GMT
No, i'm suggesting that the mass media is ignorant and callous enough to thoughtlessly portray non-whites in whatever subordinate capacity they see fit. Usually to the detriment of these characters. And you of course are numbly comfortable enough in your privilege to lap it all up. Let's take a little head count of the end states of every recognisable non-white characters in the ME Franchise shall we? Jacob - cheater Anderson - stereotypical black leader, also dead Udina - evil, dead Emily Wong - killed offscreen as part of a marketing campaign Kai Leng - Evil, loser, dead Kaleesa al-Jahlani - punched (twice) Name me one significant Black woman or Asian man (Kai Leng excepted for obvious reasons) in this series. Go on Udina was a white boi. He it's hispanic, so latino? still not white.
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Post by cloud9 on Mar 8, 2017 22:22:04 GMT
I hope we get a black female squadmate in the future games. I would like that very much. Yea I've noticed that too. I've seen black male companions/love interests but I hardly see black female companions/love interests in video games I don't think I can even name one off the top of my head. I'm not saying there aren't any, but i hardly see it and we haven't had one in mass effect yet but hopefully we'll get one in the future. I mentioned that on the Vivienne thread and they'll never would be one and even if there is they'll write up some shit to set it off like they did with Jacob.
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