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Post by nikkolas on Aug 12, 2016 7:20:01 GMT
So we have a few threads for companions which is only natural but these games are great for all the characters, even the minor ones. One minor character I've loved ever since I firs tplayed Origins was the late King Cailan. While not a victim of quite as much hate as major characters like Anders or Sera, he also gets a really unfair reputation in the fandom.
To listen to people talk online, you would think he was a drooling oaf who, when you first met him, was dancing around naked shouting for darkspwn to come fight him. Yes, he was self-assured and confident but you can even bring up this point to Wynne at Ostagar and she says: "The king mus talways seem confident. His behavior affects the troops' morale."
We might be invincible player characters but for the poor mooks standing there, facing down a horde of pure evil, knowing you are all that stands between them and the absolut edestruction of your loved ones, your country and everything else you might hold dear? I think these guys need something...someone to give them heart and courage. Cailan did that. We know he specifically spent mos tof his time at Ostagar with his troops, in fact.
But in spite of all his bravado, Cailan was no fool. This is why I can never think of him as the blithering idiot so many others do. He is the main reason Ferelden wasn't destroyed. Anora tells us that Cailan was well aware of who Alistair was and guess who specifically ordered Alistair away from the battlefield, to a location he thought would be safe? That's right, it was Cailan. If no tfor Cailan, the Theirlin bloodline would have ended there, every last Ferelden Warden would be dead and Ferelden itself would be swallowed up by the Blight. But you see, he's the dope here while Loghain is the genius....
But getting away from matters of the mind, I first fell in love with Cailan because of the kind of man he was. Genius or buffoon, he was a good man. No matter your origin, he always treats you with the utmost respect and courtesy. Even on my second run where I played a human-hating (and rather evil) City Elf who mouthed off to him, and Duncan reprimanded me, Cailan brushed off the insult. He was genuinely shocked and horrified by the kinds of atrocities that went on in the alienage. I hear he also vows to punish Howe for what he did in the Human Noble origin.
Also, while Duncan's opening narration and random NPC comments make it clear most people couldn't care less about the Grey Wardens unless darkspawn are currently in the processing of knocking down your door, Cailan volunteered everything he had for this noble cause. Gloryhound or not, he did the right thing by supporting the Wardens and he did it all on his own. Nobody needed to shove ancient treaties in his face or do him a bunch of favors to get him off his ass.
So....yeah. Not a pivotal character in the history of Thedas but I think he was a highly likable one. He was young, inexperienced, felt he had a huge chip on his shoulder to live up to his father's legacy but in spite of his "soft" upbringing, he was a good and valiant man who might have gotten more practical with time and wisdom. He is Alistair's brother after all and we all know Al is smarter and more capable than he lets on.
What do you all think?
P.S. What do you do with his body in Return to Ostagar? The "throw it to the wolves" option almost makes me mor esick than jus tleaving it there. The fact Loghain supports this is jus textremely petty. The dude is dead, get over it. The least we can do is give him a proper funeral. Save
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2016 7:25:33 GMT
What wait? Cailan's an idiot. He just rushed into battle without a second though. Fricken Alistair wouldn't do such a haste thing...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2016 9:39:25 GMT
I'm fairly certain at one point my Canon Cousland had sexual relations with Cailan, lol. Although, it really was brief and my Cousland wasn't too terribly interested in him though. Her main love as teenager was Nathienal Howe, and they had a really very strong relationship, until the blight torn them apart, and Rendon killed her parents and all of that - and Alistair of course. She loved him, like twice as much as she ever did Nathienal, and ended up marrying Alistari in the end though. I do image she and Howe had a bit of a affair in Awakening though, just to finish up there past relationship though - they ended up on good friendly non romantic terms in the end though.
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Post by Panda on Aug 12, 2016 12:52:39 GMT
I didn't actually know he was aware of Alistair being his half-brother, so something new for me ^^ I wonder how i missed that, I have played Origins quite many times through after all.
Personally I don't see Cailan brilliant guy, but he's not as foolish as he first appears- like Wynne said I think some of his bravado is just trying to keep moral up though probably not all of it. He is definitely one of my fav characters as well, too bad he died so soon. On the DLC- I think his burial is only right choice unless you are paying asshole Warden. He is the king, he believed in Grey Wardens and at least fought bravely to his end.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2016 18:57:20 GMT
Despite his foolish ways I liked Cailan as an acquaintance. Like Duncan he is with you for a short time, not enough to feel like Alistair does, but enough to feel emotional when they die. As the Warden we are not aware of anything until Return to Ostagar and even then it's hinted that he was tormented over doing what's right and what his heart wanted. The crumpled and then smoothed out paper expressed this. He was a sort of puppet in the hands of Eamon, but unlike Alistair, he did not do what Eamon wanted. I think he knew he would die. His false bravado did not fool me. As Wynne said, he must be that way. Deep inside he knew it was a losing battle and he wanted to go out in glory. Oh he want out spectacularly, but not in glory.
I let him burn in the pyre. He WAS a royal even though Loghain was unhappy with me and I refuse to treat him as anything but what he was in blood and title.
One thing bugged me though... how he died and how he looked does not connect. A crushed body will not look perfect like that! I think showing us his body was wrong. We should have just found buried remains in the snow off camera and then saw a pyre burning something indistinguishable.
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Post by BevH on Aug 12, 2016 20:44:35 GMT
I didn't actually know he was aware of Alistair being his half-brother, so something new for me ^^ I wonder how i missed that, I have played Origins quite many times through after all. Personally I don't see Cailan brilliant guy, but he's not as foolish as he first appears- like Wynne said I think some of his bravado is just trying to keep moral up though probably not all of it. He is definitely one of my fav characters as well, too bad he died so soon. On the DLC- I think his burial is only right choice unless you are paying asshole Warden. He is the king, he believed in Grey Wardens and at least fought bravely to his end. Alistair, I believe, mentions seeing Cailan once in Recliffe. Cailan didn't give him the time of day. In talking to Anora at Eamon's Denerim estate, she will mention that she and Cailan knew of Alistair. As for what I do with Cailan's body at Ostagar, I always take it down and give him a proper funeral.
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Post by WardenKelda on Aug 15, 2016 13:40:07 GMT
No, no he doesn't. I'll admit his tactics are a bit haphazard (no seriously, don't charge past the choke point if the mindless hoard of the enemy will just throw themselves at you) but when Loghain threatens to pull his forces from the battle Cailan's response is 'Okay, we'll wait for the Orlesian forces then'. That's not charging into battle without a second thought. It is only after Loghain promises his forces to the fight that Cailan plans to go ahead with the battle. Assuming Loghain hadn't decided to nope out of there, drawing your enemy out and smashing them from the side with a second force is a reasonable tactic. I mean, it wouldn't have been a fantastic victory - not with the archdemon turning up - but I reckon the Ferelden forces would have won at least enough to hold back the horde for a little while longer.
Besides that, he's won enough victories prior to the Warden turning up that they're still holding Ostagar.
Second of all, look who he has to look up to. His father took back Ferelden from Orlais with a tiny force. That's a hell of a legacy to feel like you have to live up to, especially when you've got your father's best mate (who's also your father in law and one of the most powerful men in the kingdom) looking over your shoulder. Not to mention you've got your uncle, who's also one of the most powerful men in the kingdom disagreeing with your father in law. Cailan isn't in a particularly enviable position, especially since he doesn't have a legitimate heir yet.
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Post by mattig89ch on Aug 30, 2016 23:16:31 GMT
I always saw him as a bit of a boy playing at being a man. Talking about the old stories of a king standing with the grey wardens against the blight. And being disappointed that there was no sighting of an arch demon he could ride with the grey wardens against.
I don't view him as bad, more as incompetent. He should have never been standing with the grey wardens, that should have been Logains place. But instead, he wanted to fight with the heros of the old tales, and died as a result.
All this said, he never struck me as a bad person. After reading the first to dragon age novels, he seemed alot like his father. Overly trusting, rather lucky, leading with his heart. All things I'd respect and admire in a king. But his ability to be manipulated by his wife so easily (everyone said she was actually running things through him, and he wasn't able to tell her no ever since she batted her eyelashes at him), and his desire to be like the hero in the old tales led him to stand in a place he shouldn't have been. And Logains treason got him killed.
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Post by Sifr on Sept 5, 2016 8:28:04 GMT
No, no he doesn't. I'll admit his tactics are a bit haphazard (no seriously, don't charge past the choke point if the mindless hoard of the enemy will just throw themselves at you) but when Loghain threatens to pull his forces from the battle Cailan's response is 'Okay, we'll wait for the Orlesian forces then'. That's not charging into battle without a second thought. It is only after Loghain promises his forces to the fight that Cailan plans to go ahead with the battle. Assuming Loghain hadn't decided to nope out of there, drawing your enemy out and smashing them from the side with a second force is a reasonable tactic. Yes, he did foolishly charge without thinking and that's what got everyone killed. Cailan was to draw them into the valley and the defensive choke point, allowing Loghain's forces to swoop in from cover and flank them. That strategy was discussed in the War Council meeting right before the battle, where it was clearly spelled out to him precisely what the plan was. Cailan: Fine. Speak your strategy. The Grey Wardens and I will draw the darkspawn into charging our lines and then...? Loghain: You will alert the tower to light the beacon, signalling my men to charge from cover. Cailan: To flank the darkspawn, I remember. Cailan knew the strategy, so unless we're saying he somehow forgot it in the next ten minutes, he either intentionally ignored it, or let his bravado get to his head and think he knew better that to listen to Loghain and his "boring" strategies. As a result, because he jumped the gun and ordered his forces to charge, he moved everyone out of their position and broke his own defensive line, thus making it impossible for Loghain to properly flank them as intended. Loghain's refusal to join the fray can be seen as him realising the plan had already been botched beyond reckoning and the valley was now one giant meat grinder, so it'd have been recklessly irresponsible for him to send his people to their deaths. That's not to say that Cailan was a stupid man or even a bad king... but we cannot deny, he was a frigging awful military commander.
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Post by BevH on Sept 5, 2016 22:52:32 GMT
No, no he doesn't. I'll admit his tactics are a bit haphazard (no seriously, don't charge past the choke point if the mindless hoard of the enemy will just throw themselves at you) but when Loghain threatens to pull his forces from the battle Cailan's response is 'Okay, we'll wait for the Orlesian forces then'. That's not charging into battle without a second thought. It is only after Loghain promises his forces to the fight that Cailan plans to go ahead with the battle. Assuming Loghain hadn't decided to nope out of there, drawing your enemy out and smashing them from the side with a second force is a reasonable tactic. Yes, he did foolishly charge without thinking and that's what got everyone killed. Cailan was to draw them into the valley and the defensive choke point, allowing Loghain's forces to swoop in from cover and flank them. That strategy was discussed in the War Council meeting right before the battle, where it was clearly spelled out to him precisely what the plan was. Cailan: Fine. Speak your strategy. The Grey Wardens and I will draw the darkspawn into charging our lines and then...? Loghain: You will alert the tower to light the beacon, signalling my men to charge from cover. Cailan: To flank the darkspawn, I remember. Cailan knew the strategy, so unless we're saying he somehow forgot it in the next ten minutes, he either intentionally ignored it, or let his bravado get to his head and think he knew better that to listen to Loghain and his "boring" strategies. As a result, because he jumped the gun and ordered his forces to charge, he moved everyone out of their position and broke his own defensive line, thus making it impossible for Loghain to properly flank them as intended. Loghain's refusal to join the fray can be seen as him realising the plan had already been botched beyond reckoning and the valley was now one giant meat grinder, so it'd have been recklessly irresponsible for him to send his people to their deaths. That's not to say that Cailan was a stupid man or even a bad king... but we cannot deny, he was a frigging awful military commander. When put this way, it also makes Cailan responsible for the Wardens being late to light the signal fire. Granted, they were delayed because of having to fight darkspawn on their way up. But had Cailan not jumped the gun, they might have seen the signal to light the fire.
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Post by bear43 on Sept 9, 2016 15:04:08 GMT
That's not to say that Cailan was a stupid man or even a bad king... but we cannot deny, he was a frigging awful military commander. I wouldn't say he was an awful commander. He was a very inexperienced commander. That was why Loghain was so involved in the planning to begin with. That charge into the choke point was a mistake, no doubt about it. I feel that was part of Cailan's youthful exuberance and inexperience showing. He had the best of intentions but he should have been a bit more cautious. With teachers like Loghain and Eamon he had to know the significance of choke points in relation to military campaigns but he seemed to allow his excitement for battle overwhelm his sensibilities. I do think he did his best as King and he certainly seemed like a decent enough man. It is unfortunate he never got a chance to develop more. I think he would have done quite well in time.
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Post by deadlydwarf on Sept 17, 2016 11:18:51 GMT
I didn't actually know he was aware of Alistair being his half-brother, so something new for me ^^ I wonder how i missed that, I have played Origins quite many times through after all. Personally I don't see Cailan brilliant guy, but he's not as foolish as he first appears- like Wynne said I think some of his bravado is just trying to keep moral up though probably not all of it. He is definitely one of my fav characters as well, too bad he died so soon. On the DLC- I think his burial is only right choice unless you are paying asshole Warden. He is the king, he believed in Grey Wardens and at least fought bravely to his end. Allistair mentions meeting Cailan once when he visited Arl Eamon's castle, but I don't know if that necessarily means that Cailan knew who Alistair really was. Cailan's a romantic but not a complete idiot. If Duncan had leveled with him about why Wardens are necessary to kill the AD, the battle plans would've been different. With only a small force of Wardens, it would've been best to keep them in reserve until the AD appeared. Would Cailan still have led the main group into battle? Hard to say. He might have listened to Loghain and tried to eye the battle from a distance. But then again, he might not have felt right sending his troops into battle while he remained safe.
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Post by secretrare on Oct 12, 2016 23:28:33 GMT
Why he did not listened to Eamon and Loghain who told him plenty of times to not be in the middle of the coflict is beyond my understanding. For certain i liked him more than his whiny useless and traitor of a step brother,he was the only true heir of Maric and a noble not a bastard like Alistair.
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Post by secretrare on Oct 12, 2016 23:39:34 GMT
I didn't actually know he was aware of Alistair being his half-brother, so something new for me ^^ I wonder how i missed that, I have played Origins quite many times through after all. Personally I don't see Cailan brilliant guy, but he's not as foolish as he first appears- like Wynne said I think some of his bravado is just trying to keep moral up though probably not all of it. He is definitely one of my fav characters as well, too bad he died so soon. On the DLC- I think his burial is only right choice unless you are paying asshole Warden. He is the king, he believed in Grey Wardens and at least fought bravely to his end. Allistair mentions meeting Cailan once when he visited Arl Eamon's castle, but I don't know if that necessarily means that Cailan knew who Alistair really was. Cailan's a romantic but not a complete idiot. If Duncan had leveled with him about why Wardens are necessary to kill the AD, the battle plans would've been different. With only a small force of Wardens, it would've been best to keep them in reserve until the AD appeared. Would Cailan still have led the main group into battle? Hard to say. He might have listened to Loghain and tried to eye the battle from a distance. But then again, he might not have felt right sending his troops into battle while he remained safe. Duncan and Riordan were forced by David Gaider to act stupid,they decided to not tell the US not just to Cailan or Loghain but even to fellow GW,in fact Alistair was never informed about this by Duncan. All of this was decided by Mr Gaider to push the agenda of his pet Morrigan,yes Morrigan is the sole reason for these plot holes because being aware of the US earlier would have ruined the DR offer.
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Post by Sifr on Oct 13, 2016 0:05:30 GMT
Duncan and Riordan were forced by David Gaider to act stupid,they decided to not tell the US not just to Cailan or Loghain but even to fellow GW,in fact Alistair was never informed about this by Duncan. Riordan does explain that the final blow ideally is struck by the most Senior Warden present as they are already closer to the Calling, which would have meant that Duncan would have probably been up for the chop if he'd survived Ostagar. Duncan didn't tell anyone because the Wardens value secrecy and at that point, they had no way of knowing whether the Archdemon itself would even show up with the horde that were descending upon Ostagar. As far as we can tell, it was still safely directing it's troops from within the Deep Roads at that point. The information was meant to be need to know and at that point, no-one needed to know. Riordan's YOLO moment onto it's back was a bit reckless, but it did succeed in crippling the Archdemon's wing and forcing it to the ground. With the Griffons having died out in the last Blight, the Ferelden forces had no means to attack it (save for ballistas) while it was in flight, so you can't exactly fault Riordan for taking what might be the only opportunity to try to bring it down.
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Post by secretrare on Oct 13, 2016 2:06:19 GMT
Duncan and Riordan were forced by David Gaider to act stupid,they decided to not tell the US not just to Cailan or Loghain but even to fellow GW,in fact Alistair was never informed about this by Duncan. Riordan does explain that the final blow ideally is struck by the most Senior Warden present as they are already closer to the Calling, which would have meant that Duncan would have probably been up for the chop if he'd survived Ostagar. Duncan didn't tell anyone because the Wardens value secrecy and at that point, they had no way of knowing whether the Archdemon itself would even show up with the horde that were descending upon Ostagar. As far as we can tell, it was still safely directing it's troops from within the Deep Roads at that point. The information was meant to be need to know and at that point, no-one needed to know. Riordan's YOLO moment onto it's back was a bit reckless, but it did succeed in crippling the Archdemon's wing and forcing it to the ground. With the Griffons having died out in the last Blight, the Ferelden forces had no means to attack it (save for ballistas) while it was in flight, so you can't exactly fault Riordan for taking what might be the only opportunity to try to bring it down. Riordan and Duncan made several mistakes during the main plot,mistakes that were OOC for the both of them and I'm sure it was just bad writing to force the ending-drama. Duncan decided to not explain the US to the GW Alistair in 6 months of time for no reason(other than to force the Alistair|Loghain drama at the landsmeet and the DR tie-up)while he knew that there was a blight and the possibility that the AD could have showed up at Ostagar in fact he was not certain that the dragon would have not supported the darkspawns directly,so it was only logical to have all the GW informed about it including the PC. Also by not informing about the US both Cailan and Loghain there was the Huge risk that if one of their thousands of soldiers defeated the AD they would have allowed the dragon to reborn without being aware of that rather than wait for a GW to finish it off,and this is way keep the secret of the US is very much insane. Riordan did not informed about his plans to be the first sacrifice to the Warden at Eamon estate in Denerim for no reason, and for no reasons he decided that he did not wanted to recruit others GW with Loghain after the Landsmeet by searching among our companions. The writing of his jump as a way to disable Urthemiel was idiotic for several reasons: 1)He had no way to know that the Archdemon would have decided to fly exactly under the building in whom he was waiting (keep in mind that Denerim is a big city)unless he is a secret Evanuris who can foresee the future. 2)A Flying opponent who is flying on a very low altitude can be forced on the terrain via long ranged weapons,such as arrows and fireballs,lighting bolts ecc...is what in DAI we all do all the time vs the flying High dragons there was no need to risk one of the few GW for that. Overall i think that what he and Duncan did was illogical as it was illogical their writing and the way in which the writers arbitrarly decided to kill him just because they did not wanted to allow to a secondary NPC to kill the boss of the game to push Morrigan and her subplot. there was no reason as for why Riordan needed to fail in killing the archdemon other than to force the DR temptation,and in fact players like me need to lose characters like Loghain for these kind of writing.
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Post by phoray on Oct 13, 2016 16:25:59 GMT
Yeah, Duncan (and all the other Grey Wardens Alistair met) not telling Alistair about the US requirements was super stupid.
When you give the documents to Riodan, he straight up says that they have neither time nor recruits to be making into Grey Wardens. Then changes his mind at Loghain's duel.
Loghain also absolutely didn't want to wait for the Orlesian forces. And if you think of the timing of Jowan, Loghain had to have intervened and hired Jowan BEFORE the battle at Ostagar. You know what also happens before the battle of Ostagar? Howe killing all the Couslands and seizing their lands<- Sure Loghain didn't miss his right hand doing that, and certainly didn't punish him when it came to light. Howe also did the same thing to Vaugn's lands.
In return to Ostagar, we see the field of battle. Cailan stayed in the bottle neck, just like he was supposed to. Now, there were the sheer numbers they hadn't accounted for. Also the fact that the tunneling spawn had found a way to go under and around.
In the end, though, Loghain says that all his assumptions were wrong, and he regrets them, although he'll never admit to outright trying to kill Cailan. He admits to slavery and Ser Cauthrien admits to knowing Howe was torturing nobles which is as good as Loghain knowing although he denies knowledge at the Landsmeet.
But the OP is about King Cailan. I think the man was naive. I think he shouldn't have fought directly on the battlefield. But I think any man can be betrayed by someone he trusts. And he trusted Loghain. It's sad, because Loghain was so very devoted to Maric, it was a hardcore bromance. Loghain kept comparing Cailan to Maric but they had drastically different childhoods and hardships and they are just very different people. The more Cailan wasn't Maric, the more Loghain hated him.
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Post by Anders Was Right on Oct 31, 2016 0:14:57 GMT
Poor Cailan thinks he's the main character in a traditional fantasy, when he's a sacrifical lamb in a crapsack world. He's a bit genre blind.
Still, he deserved better.
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Post by Sifr on Oct 31, 2016 14:22:28 GMT
It could have been a better plot-twist for Cailan to have been revealed to have barely survived the battle, albeit gravely wounded. Duncan in this version was mortally wounded saving him from the Ogre.
Most of the game's events are the same, until the Landsmeet is called. We are sent to rescue Anora as in the game, who explains her was trying to rescue Cailan, who she'd discovered was alive and being imprisoned/tortured by Howe in his dungeons.
(Jerk Wardens have the option to kill him, if they wish, in which case the game proceeds as normal)
Rather than Anora as in the game, Cailan is the surprise ally we bring to the Landsmeet, which immediately ends all support for Loghain's regency. Riordan gives us the same option to recruit Loghain into the Wardens, rather than execute him, if we want. To end further Civil War in case anything happens to him, Cailan legitimises Alistair's claim to the throne.
The endgame happens roughly the same way as in the normal game. Cailan takes part in the battle, but due to his ordeal and torture, he's not as hot on his feet as before. He ends up going out a hero (as he wanted) valiantly holding the roof entrance to Fort Drakon, allowing the Warden to finish the Archdemon without interruption, before succumbing to his wounds.
(Also I'd have had Riordan cripple the Archdemon's wing with a ballista before it roasted him with flame.)
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BevH
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Post by BevH on Oct 31, 2016 15:01:51 GMT
It could have been a better plot-twist for Cailan to have been revealed to have barely survived the battle, albeit gravely wounded. Duncan in this version was mortally wounded saving him from the Ogre. Most of the game's events are the same, until the Landsmeet is called. We are sent to rescue Anora as in the game, who explains her was trying to rescue Cailan, who she'd discovered was alive and being imprisoned/tortured by Howe in his dungeons. (Jerk Wardens have the option to kill him, if they wish, in which case the game proceeds as normal) Rather than Anora as in the game, Cailan is the surprise ally we bring to the Landsmeet, which immediately ends all support for Loghain's regency. Riordan gives us the same option to recruit Loghain into the Wardens, rather than execute him, if we want. To end further Civil War in case anything happens to him, Cailan legitimises Alistair's claim to the throne. The endgame happens roughly the same way as in the normal game. Cailan takes part in the battle, but due to his ordeal and torture, he's not as hot on his feet as before. He ends up going out a hero (as he wanted) valiantly holding the roof entrance to Fort Drakon, allowing the Warden to finish the Archdemon without interruption, before succumbing to his wounds. (Also I'd have had Riordan crippled the Archdemon's wing with a ballista before it roasted him with flame) I like your version! Can we have it please? I just don't believe that Cailan was as stupid as everyone thinks. Inexperienced, certainly, thus the reason for his too soon charge on the darkspawn.
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Post by doflamingodonquijote on Nov 1, 2016 6:19:46 GMT
Cailan had to die because otherwise there wouldn't be an option for me to take his throne. Duncan instead was not killed in-screen his death is ambiguos as the one of Calpernia,also i do remember him mourning something in the end game,he shouldn't be able to speak if he is dead.
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Post by Sifr on Nov 1, 2016 11:32:29 GMT
Duncan instead was not killed in-screen his death is ambiguos as the one of Calpernia,also i do remember him mourning something in the end game,he shouldn't be able to speak if he is dead. Sadly, Duncan was confirmed by the devs to be canonically dead. (Long explanation); He was already mortally wounded fighting the Ogre and the last time we saw him on-screen he was giving a death glare to the Hurlock about to behead him with a giant battle-axe. His tarot card in Inquisition (and label for Nightmare Difficulty) even depicts him holding his own decapitated head with multiple arrows in his body, so that pretty much confirms that he didn't make it as far as the writer's are concerned.
Duncan's narration of the prologue, the Warden's respective origin and the ending are simply there as artistic license. Same reason why Seneschal Varel narrates in Awakening, Leliana in Leliana's Song, Varric throughout DA2 and Morrigan in Witch Hunt and the epilogue of Inquisition.
His body is missing from Ostagar however, something that's commented on by Riordan, who went there to identify any dead Wardens, as well as in Return to Ostagar.
The most likely explanation is that Duncan's body was recovered by the Darkspawn. Either this was regular Darkspawn who dragged him off for food, or Awakened Darkspawn serving the Architect, who we later find out was recovering Warden corpses for his experiments. Shame that Duncan was around for longer, makes me wonder how he'd have handled things during the Fifth Blight?
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Post by doflamingodonquijote on Nov 1, 2016 19:32:47 GMT
Ah yes probably the Architect took him for the blood,he was already doomed with the calling so he did not lost any great future.... Duncan would have recruited Loghain and then if Alistair still insisted to leave he would have killed Alistair.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2017 3:19:47 GMT
I disagree that it was an obvious Andraste given that Cailan was suppose to stay away from battle. A King who forwards himself as a military leader will never win respect of the troops or gain the necessary battle experience to command competently by always hiding in the bushes while letting everyone else shed blood.
The world of DA is a violent one where being able to defend your borders by physically being there at the head of the army inspires loyalty and gains the King his prestige with both military whose morale is raised by King's presence and with civilians who'd feel safer.
It's easy to judge from the computer screen after the battle was done, but I'm pretty sure from the Ferelden belief system a guy who sits out all battles on the hill gets dubbed an ultimate loser and a coward. In Ferelden valour is held to the highest regard and it is expected of the King to lead in battle - unless of course he has positioned himself as some library building inspired scholar or hardcore minister of finances type then they won't be in battle at all and would send a general to fight for Ferelden.
What kind of reputation would Cailan have earned had he stayed away from that battle, allowing his army to die, and then ran back to hide in the capital? Who would have followed him after a thing like that? All the nobles would have called him a loser and ambitious ones would have staged a coup against him - especially when there was already one of the way. Howe for sure would have jumped his throat.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2017 3:51:55 GMT
Yes, he did foolishly charge without thinking and that's what got everyone killed. Can you please offer PROOF that he charged and left the choke point? I have two screenshots and it doesn't look to me like it judging by them. Cailain has that encircling part of the Ostagar wall right at his back that's deep inside that narrow corridor and he was supposedly at the front lines. It looks to me like he followed his part of the plan.  
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