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Post by XCPTNL on Feb 21, 2017 4:03:19 GMT
Excuse me but... dafuq are you talking about with RHA in ME? This is a thing in some variation in almost every 3rd person shooter. If you consider this cheating maybe you should not even play any game with a 3rd person view because you can see more of your surrounding than in a first person shooter.
It's pretty much a standard tactic to stay in cover sometimes if you have to and still be able to shoot at the enemies. And if you are a good player you won't even do this very often because most of the time you are not in cover but right on the battlefield fighting. With any class and kit by the way, even on platinum.
Yes, I probably sound like an arrogant elitist pro now, but in this case I actually don't mind. Because to me the idea of knowing about and using some gameplay mechanics being considered cheating is just a bit ridiculous. Also... if you really wanted a dick measuring contest amongst the team in terms of higher scores, this soft cover stuff does not even give you an advantage over your "competition" because first of all everyone can use pretty easily and second you will never be as fast at killing stuff like your crazy teammates who run around the battlefield and only take some cover every now and then. On the other hand this mechanic can be more useful if you play solo-runs and if you consider it cheating as in "it's unfair for the enemy AI" then you might think ablut the fact that they play vs one player instead of four. And like I said before: to some degree this mechanic is part of almost any 3rd person shooter. This discussion is the reload cancel drama that has been going on since ME2 all over again.
Aside from using external hacks or altering gamefiles I think that intentionally causing a glitch that alters gameplay mechanics like maybe make you invincible, have unlimited ammo or in ME3MP's case shooting missiles nonstop can safely be considered cheating and has been by the devs because back in the day they did swing the banhammer for exactly those people.
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zorinho20
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: Zorinho20
Posts: 609 Likes: 1,597
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Post by zorinho20 on Feb 21, 2017 6:10:30 GMT
Gracious goodness,this thread was blown out of proportion since I went to bed.
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Post by SalMasRac on Feb 21, 2017 6:28:54 GMT
If ISIS invades my house, I'm going to "Camp" around the corner above the stairs and "exploit" right hand advantage by poking my gun around the corner and firing down the stairs while they can't see me. Call me a "cheater", oh wait, you won't be able to, because when they invade YOUR house, you'll be dead, because you jumped right out onto the top stair right in front of them. At least you died "fair". I have no idea what this has anything to do with a video game where you are killing waves of NPCs. This isn't a life or death situation. You are literally cheating and taking the easy way out because you refuse to play the game as intended. There are no similarities here with your over-the-top example. That's rich coming from a guy who whores himself out to both sides of The Force. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2017 6:38:11 GMT
Goes to the boob size thread and calls me out for trolling.
Comes to MP section and starts trolling.
At least I am so over the top about my trolling you know where I stand.
L2P
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Post by SalMasRac on Feb 21, 2017 6:43:01 GMT
It's safe to assume that Bioware is well aware of your "issues" by now. So if it's still possible to use soft cover in MEA, it's because they didn't give a rat's ass and don't consider it cheating.  |
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zorinho20
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: Zorinho20
Posts: 609 Likes: 1,597
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Post by zorinho20 on Feb 21, 2017 7:52:44 GMT
It's safe to assume that Bioware is well aware of your "issues" by now. So if it's still possible to use soft cover in MEA, it's because they didn't give a rat's ass and don't consider it cheating. I see you are on a roll today.  |
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Gileadan
N5
Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ALoneGretchin
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Post by Gileadan on Feb 21, 2017 8:15:10 GMT
"Reload canceling" was just a clumsy implementation of what other shooters call "active reload" and therefore not an exploit. I would have preferred it to be bound to the reload button.
Given how BioWare is still kinda new to the Frostbite engine, I expect that they will avoid messing too much with its internal handling of game mechanics - just look at DAI's hit box implementation for an idea of how well that worked out last time. Instead, they might pick up a basic game implementation from DICE and modify it to an extend. Most likely candidate: Star Wars Battlefront (2015). This shooter is fairly fast paced, can be played in first and third person (but third person is preferable for greater situational awareness) and already supports jet pack mechanics and the allocation of powers/gadgets for the player character.
All they need to do here is to implement the typical Mass Effect powers and replace enemy players with the none too bright AI we saw in the trailer.
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Post by Alfonsedode on Feb 21, 2017 8:53:24 GMT
Isnt RHA a common feature of Third Person Shooters ?
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Post by SalMasRac on Feb 21, 2017 9:01:59 GMT
Isnt RHA a common feature of Third Person Shooters ? More or less, yeah. Some of them your bullets come out of your center of mass, rather than your gun, making RHA trickier to use, but that's kind of derpy. |
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Post by Pounce de León on Feb 21, 2017 9:48:45 GMT
Hey bait-takers, what's up? I feel like having fish today. Thoughts?
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Post by SalMasRac on Feb 21, 2017 10:04:21 GMT
Hey bait-takers, what's up? I feel like having fish today. Thoughts? Fish is full of mercury and Fukushima radiation. Shrimp is smaller and doesn't retain as much. |
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Post by Pounce de León on Feb 21, 2017 10:14:44 GMT
Hey bait-takers, what's up? I feel like having fish today. Thoughts? Fish is full of mercury and Fukushima radiation. Shrimp is smaller and doesn't retain as much. I'm allergic to crustipedos. |
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Post by SalMasRac on Feb 21, 2017 10:19:04 GMT
On the rare occasion I do have fish, I saute in butter, then after I flip them I cover them in Veganaise and parmesan cheese, then cover so it gets all nice and melty.
Typically with steamed veggies on the side.
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zorinho20
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: Zorinho20
Posts: 609 Likes: 1,597
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Post by zorinho20 on Feb 21, 2017 11:01:15 GMT
On the rare occasion I do have fish, I saute in butter, then after I flip them I cover them in Veganaise and parmesan cheese, then cover so it gets all nice and melty. Typically with steamed veggies on the side. Doesn't all that stuff kill the taste of fish? I like it really simple-just fish with olive oil and salt. |
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Post by Pounce de León on Feb 21, 2017 11:26:20 GMT
Personally I like cured and pickled fish. Served with olive oil and lemon. Really nice in summer.
Then again there are these days when I would like a fried or grilled fish with some butter or lemon and oil.
Or smoked fish - hellyeah - I could munch on a nice one right now.
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Post by Alfonsedode on Feb 21, 2017 11:33:16 GMT
"poisson braisé a la camerounaise" (cameroun braised fish) rules  |
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zorinho20
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: Zorinho20
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Post by zorinho20 on Feb 21, 2017 11:35:11 GMT
Personally I like cured and pickled fish. Served with olive oil and lemon. Really nice in summer. Then again there are these days when I would like a fried or grilled fish with some butter or lemon and oil. Or smoked fish - hellyeah - I could munch on a nice one right now. Yeah,I agree. Generally I like sea fish more than lake fish,but in winter smoked fish (like carp ) is a great choice. |
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Post by Cirvante on Feb 21, 2017 18:09:16 GMT
Hey bait-takers, what's up? I feel like having fish today. Thoughts? I love eating fish. And by fish I mean steak, of course.  |
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Sailears on Feb 21, 2017 19:01:56 GMT
Damn, this thread has taken a turn for making me hungry.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Feb 21, 2017 19:28:35 GMT
Not trying to mock you, but I just don't see what's so skillful about exploiting a game and not playing as BioWare intended. When I started playing ME3MP, I didn't know about soft cover or RHA. The average pug doesn't know about it either. It's a skill you have to learn in order to play well on higher difficulties. It's not just about hugging corners, but mainly about positioning. If there's an enemy to my left, I may position myself in such a way that he doesn't have LoS on me while I quickly dispatch the one in front of me. Even if the enemy could still target your right shoulder around a corner it wouldn't make much of a difference, since his three friends to the left can't see you. But if you aim out of hard cover, they will. If you think that staying out of the enemy's LoS is cheating, then you're an idiot. Go play Puggernaut and face-tank your opponents in honorable combat. You play by the rules in a PVE shooter? How very noble of you, we wouldn't want to hurt the AI's feelings after all. Who made these rules and where are they written down anyway? Bioware made the game the way it is. They saw people using RHA, shrugged and called it 'clever use of game mechanics'. Same for reload-canceling, reload-hiding and pizza running. The enemies in ME3MP are cheating shits anyway, they spawn on top of you, wallhack, double-tap, stunlock, ignore your powers and shoot you while knocked down or frozen. Atlases will shoot butt missiles at you and Phantoms will stab you after you break their blade. Why wouldn't you use the game mechanics, that weren't explicitly labeled as cheating by the devs, against them? It's not like we're exploiting against human opponents, like you did in Halo. Your basketball analogy was flawed. We're not playing against each other, but together against mindless zombies who don't really care about basketball and would rather eat our brains. If you want to kill them as efficiently as possible, you need to make use of their stupidity. I understand what you are doing. As I said, it's meant to make harder difficulties easier by "cutting corners," if you will. BioWare intended for you to use actual cover or to move by traditional means. They did not intend for you to find flaws in AI targeting by creating "soft cover." LOS, in itself, is obviously not cheating. That's the main means of how you avoid getting killed in any shooter. It's how you are specifically exploiting ME3 that makes your version of "LOS" questionable. Again, because this is a PvE multiplayer, BioWare probably does not care because it's not about skill anyway. If this was PvP, however, I guarantee you BioWare would probably have approached this entirely differently. All I'm saying is you are sucking out some of the fun of harder difficulties. By exploiting flaws in enemy AI, it's not nearly as fun or as challenging. Obviously, you are free to do what you want. It's only my personal opinion that I don't find that kind of behavior to be particularly exciting because you are circumventing some of the challenge of the game. |
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Post by Revan Reborn on Feb 21, 2017 19:36:12 GMT
Excuse me but... dafuq are you talking about with RHA in ME? This is a thing in some variation in almost every 3rd person shooter. If you consider this cheating maybe you should not even play any game with a 3rd person view because you can see more of your surrounding than in a first person shooter. It's pretty much a standard tactic to stay in cover sometimes if you have to and still be able to shoot at the enemies. And if you are a good player you won't even do this very often because most of the time you are not in cover but right on the battlefield fighting. With any class and kit by the way, even on platinum. Yes, I probably sound like an arrogant elitist pro now, but in this case I actually don't mind. Because to me the idea of knowing about and using some gameplay mechanics being considered cheating is just a bit ridiculous. Also... if you really wanted a dick measuring contest amongst the team in terms of higher scores, this soft cover stuff does not even give you an advantage over your "competition" because first of all everyone can use pretty easily and second you will never be as fast at killing stuff like your crazy teammates who run around the battlefield and only take some cover every now and then. On the other hand this mechanic can be more useful if you play solo-runs and if you consider it cheating as in "it's unfair for the enemy AI" then you might think ablut the fact that they play vs one player instead of four. And like I said before: to some degree this mechanic is part of almost any 3rd person shooter. This discussion is the reload cancel drama that has been going on since ME2 all over again. Aside from using external hacks or altering gamefiles I think that intentionally causing a glitch that alters gameplay mechanics like maybe make you invincible, have unlimited ammo or in ME3MP's case shooting missiles nonstop can safely be considered cheating and has been by the devs because back in the day they did swing the banhammer for exactly those people. Soft cover, in itself, is nothing new to 3rd person shooters. The problem here is you aren't going against other players, who can adjust to the soft cover tactics. You are going against AI that are programmed to shoot you when you are entirely out of cover, but they cannot. As I said, you are free to play how you like, but to me this particular tactic takes the fun out of doing harder difficulties. Those examples of exploits and bugs are certainly more egregious and are more warranted for negative action taken against one's account. That still doesn't change the fact that your clever use of mechanics is undermining the challenge of the harder difficulties. |
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Post by Stinja on Feb 21, 2017 19:39:09 GMT
I heard there is an interesting discussion over in SP forum about size of Sara's party pillows. Link plz? ... and err... pics? (for science I mean  ) As for combat, it may be too early to say. Intro videos with devs playing usually have god-mode turned on, and what difficulty are we seeing? If insanity difficulty still has you hugging cover while neo-Harbinger's one-shotting your teammates, it may bring back all those "good" old memories. If nothing else a Novaguard Krogan is going to make me happy! I am confused though, OP says they didn't like ME3MP and didn't play it much, then seems to have played enough to know intricaties of platinum. |
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Abramsrunner
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy
Origin: Abramsrunner
Posts: 765 Likes: 3,906
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Post by Abramsrunner on Feb 21, 2017 19:52:05 GMT
I understand what you are doing. As I said, it's meant to make harder difficulties easier by "cutting corners," if you will. BioWare intended for you to use actual cover or to move by traditional means. They did not intend for you to find flaws in AI targeting by creating "soft cover." LOS, in itself, is obviously not cheating. That's the main means of how you avoid getting killed in any shooter. It's how you are specifically exploiting ME3 that makes your version of "LOS" questionable. Again, because this is a PvE multiplayer, BioWare probably does not care because it's not about skill anyway. If this was PvP, however, I guarantee you BioWare would probably have approached this entirely differently. All I'm saying is you are sucking out some of the fun of harder difficulties. By exploiting flaws in enemy AI, it's not nearly as fun or as challenging. Obviously, you are free to do what you want. It's only my personal opinion that I don't find that kind of behavior to be particularly exciting because you are circumventing some of the challenge of the game. I want you to do a Platinum solo video without doing any exploits, because I want to see these clean skills of a pure, & noble player such as yourself, for I am a dirty cheating exploiter, I want to be enlightened by your holy light, to show me the path of true skill. |
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revanreborn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Pax_Augusta
Heero the pilot
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Post by Revan Reborn on Feb 21, 2017 20:12:07 GMT
I heard there is an interesting discussion over in SP forum about size of Sara's party pillows. Link plz? ... and err... pics? (for science I mean ) As for combat, it may be too early to say. Intro videos with devs playing usually have god-mode turned on, and what difficulty are we seeing? If insanity difficulty still has you hugging cover while neo-Harbinger's one-shotting your teammates, it may bring back all those "good" old memories. If nothing else a Novaguard Krogan is going to make me happy! I am confused though, OP says they didn't like ME3MP and didn't play it much, then seems to have played enough to know intricaties of platinum. If I implied I did not play MP a lot, then I apologize. I played hundreds of hours of ME3MP between the Xbox 360 and PC. I simply found combat to become redundant and tedious due to the limitations of gameplay in ME3. MEA looks promising and potentially adds more variety, assuming AI has been overhauled and not being in cover is actually viable for periods at a time. I understand what you are doing. As I said, it's meant to make harder difficulties easier by "cutting corners," if you will. BioWare intended for you to use actual cover or to move by traditional means. They did not intend for you to find flaws in AI targeting by creating "soft cover." LOS, in itself, is obviously not cheating. That's the main means of how you avoid getting killed in any shooter. It's how you are specifically exploiting ME3 that makes your version of "LOS" questionable. Again, because this is a PvE multiplayer, BioWare probably does not care because it's not about skill anyway. If this was PvP, however, I guarantee you BioWare would probably have approached this entirely differently. All I'm saying is you are sucking out some of the fun of harder difficulties. By exploiting flaws in enemy AI, it's not nearly as fun or as challenging. Obviously, you are free to do what you want. It's only my personal opinion that I don't find that kind of behavior to be particularly exciting because you are circumventing some of the challenge of the game. I want you to do a Platinum solo video without doing any exploits, because I want to see these clean skills of a pure, & noble player such as yourself, for I am a dirty cheating exploiter, I want to be enlightened by your holy light, to show me the path of true skill. I'm not trying to prove anything to anyone. All I stated is I prefer to play the game as intended, largely because it's more challenging and fulfilling that way. Exploits happen and are abused because players want to avoid the challenge and make the experience easier. It's just a difference of opinion and that's perfectly fine. We are simply wired differently. |
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DisturbedPsic0
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR
Posts: 64 Likes: 347
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Post by DisturbedPsic0 on Feb 21, 2017 20:22:41 GMT
Excuse me but... dafuq are you talking about with RHA in ME? This is a thing in some variation in almost every 3rd person shooter. If you consider this cheating maybe you should not even play any game with a 3rd person view because you can see more of your surrounding than in a first person shooter. It's pretty much a standard tactic to stay in cover sometimes if you have to and still be able to shoot at the enemies. And if you are a good player you won't even do this very often because most of the time you are not in cover but right on the battlefield fighting. With any class and kit by the way, even on platinum. Yes, I probably sound like an arrogant elitist pro now, but in this case I actually don't mind. Because to me the idea of knowing about and using some gameplay mechanics being considered cheating is just a bit ridiculous. Also... if you really wanted a dick measuring contest amongst the team in terms of higher scores, this soft cover stuff does not even give you an advantage over your "competition" because first of all everyone can use pretty easily and second you will never be as fast at killing stuff like your crazy teammates who run around the battlefield and only take some cover every now and then. On the other hand this mechanic can be more useful if you play solo-runs and if you consider it cheating as in "it's unfair for the enemy AI" then you might think ablut the fact that they play vs one player instead of four. And like I said before: to some degree this mechanic is part of almost any 3rd person shooter. This discussion is the reload cancel drama that has been going on since ME2 all over again. Aside from using external hacks or altering gamefiles I think that intentionally causing a glitch that alters gameplay mechanics like maybe make you invincible, have unlimited ammo or in ME3MP's case shooting missiles nonstop can safely be considered cheating and has been by the devs because back in the day they did swing the banhammer for exactly those people. Soft cover, in itself, is nothing new to 3rd person shooters. The problem here is you aren't going against other players, who can adjust to the soft cover tactics. You are going against AI that are programmed to shoot you when you are entirely out of cover, but they cannot. As I said, you are free to play how you like, but to me this particular tactic takes the fun out of doing harder difficulties. Those examples of exploits and bugs are certainly more egregious and are more warranted for negative action taken against one's account. That still doesn't change the fact that your clever use of mechanics is undermining the challenge of the harder difficulties. You keep saying Bioware didn't intend RHA...how can you prove that? It's not exactly a new thing, and I'm pretty sure it's been part of all their single player campaigns. So if we can use it there against AI, what's the issue in MP? There are advantages of hard cover (avoiding atlas rocket, ignoring pratorian lasors, completing difficult hacks and escorts by ignoring enemy fire, reducing DOT). The advantage of soft cover is map awareness and faster and easier aim and reducing incoming fire. To say the latter is unfairly superior and unintended is kind of silly. As others have said, phantom sync kills with broken swords, triple tapping rocket troopers, spawns on your head, frozen enemies shooting you, these are all unintended advantages of the enemies, but they still use them. I just don't get why you're so upset that putting cover between you and an enemy stops them from shooting you. I also don't get why you're upset that bullets come out of the end of your gun and not out of your chest (the whole reason RHA works). If you don't use it, fine. But don't call it cheating or exploiting or anything else. It's not. The devs don't care. |
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