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Post by ladiesman777 on Feb 20, 2017 18:21:11 GMT
With Andromeda now being on the newer consoles/PCs having better tech every year I think we are now at a time where we have less limitations and can explore several new gameplay mechanics and POVs from different characters. No matter how crazy the scenario It can be a dlc campaign where you play as the Archon from his Pov before we invaded the Andromeda galaxy. As Javik holding off Reapers and escaping at the last minute from several worlds. A prequel mini campaign about the first contact war from a human or turians POV. Or my best idea I think, playing the Illusive man capturing the Citadel and bringing it to Earth In a Cerberus POV mini campaign dlc you would control the Illusive man capturing the Citadel with his Cerberus soldiers and fighting alliance, civilians and other well known characters. The closest I can compare it to would be RAAMs shadow dlc from Gears of War Kai Leng would be at Cerberus HQ so he wouldnt be a squadmate, but maybe you could choose from a Phantom swordgirl, Shield Soldier, Sniper, Engineer, Centurian soldier to make up a squad to capture the Citadel. Playing as the Illusive man you could pick your skill tree. Do you want to put more stats into his biotics, reaper control powers or gun skills. You would fight alliance soldiers for a change, C-Sec, etc. Maybe even have bossfights with a gunship, Commander Bailey, Aria T Loak since last we saw her she was on the Citadel even after Omega dlc. Heck maybe even the Council, werent they last all on the Citadel too? There could be brief dialogue choices, Illusive man smoking, bossfights that determine the fate of certain characters after you defeat them or choose to ignore them. It would be a whole crazy side we have never seen but only theorized about what happened and how Illusive man did it and got to Shepard at the end of ME3. Heck go even crazier towards the end of it in a what if scenario. Illusive man killing your Shep in a bossfight, then attempting to take Control of the Reapers. He fails trying to take control of all the Reapers, then gets enraged and sacrifices his last living squadmates. Then in a sudden end there sacrifice and his biotics allow him to take control of a single Reaper capital ship. He boards it and has a final bossfight with Harbinger in a vehicle scenario where you control a Reaper capitol ship to fight him. What do you think, too much? Would you love mini Dlcs where you control a different character other then your player for a time?
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 20, 2017 18:25:32 GMT
I want talented modders to make all sorts of single player modifications like that. I'd also love it, if it had been possible or feasible to add a series of missions or dialogues to ME3 (or just text-driven stuff) that expands Cerberus and lets you side with them in order to build the Crucible more efficiently, even though you'll still be working for the Alliance.
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ladiesman777
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Post by ladiesman777 on Feb 20, 2017 18:29:24 GMT
Right Linkenski and with swords usable in single player and the ability to change our armor color I think we can get pretty close in making Sara Ryder into a Cerberus phantom ninjagirl lookalike lol
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2017 18:29:35 GMT
With Andromeda now being on the newer consoles/PCs having better tech every year I think we are now at a time where we have less limitations and can explore several new gameplay mechanics and POVs from different characters. No matter how crazy the scenario It can be a dlc campaign where you play as the Archon from his Pov before we invaded the Andromeda galaxy. As Javik holding off Reapers and escaping at the last minute from several worlds. A prequel mini campaign about the first contact war from a human or turians POV. Or my best idea I think, playing the Illusive man capturing the Citadel and bringing it to Earth In a Cerberus POV mini campaign dlc you would control the Illusive man capturing the Citadel with his Cerberus soldiers and fighting alliance, civilians and other well known characters. The closest I can compare it to would be RAAMs shadow dlc from Gears of War Kai Leng would be at Cerberus HQ so he wouldnt be a squadmate, but maybe you could choose from a Phantom swordgirl, Shield Soldier, Sniper, Engineer, Centurian soldier to make up a squad to capture the Citadel. Playing as the Illusive man you could pick your skill tree. Do you want to put more stats into his biotics, reaper control powers or gun skills. You would fight alliance soldiers for a change, C-Sec, etc. Maybe even have bossfights with a gunship, Commander Bailey, Aria T Loak since last we saw her she was on the Citadel even after Omega dlc. Heck maybe even the Council, werent they last all on the Citadel too? There could be brief dialogue choices, Illusive man smoking, bossfights that determine the fate of certain characters after you defeat them or choose to ignore them. It would be a whole crazy side we have never seen but only theorized about what happened and how Illusive man did it and got to Shepard at the end of ME3. Heck go even crazier towards the end of it in a what if scenario. Illusive man killing your Shep in a bossfight, then attempting to take Control of the Reapers. He fails trying to take control of all the Reapers, then gets enraged and sacrifices his last living squadmates. Then in a sudden end there sacrifice and his biotics allow him to take control of a single Reaper capital ship. He boards it and has a final bossfight with Harbinger in a vehicle scenario where you control a Reaper capitol ship to fight him. What do you think too much? Would you love mini Dlcs where you control a different character other then your player for a time? Not really a big fan of those types of DLCs. Mostly biased from my negative experiences with GTA IV's Lost and the Damned DLC pack up to the point I avoided Ballad of Gay Tony like the plague.
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Post by ladiesman777 on Feb 20, 2017 18:33:07 GMT
In Lost and the Damned you arnt really bad guys per say. Your a biker gang and kill people no more then Niko did. Gay Tony you played a dominican with a diverse crew and diverse missions, working for a gay nightclub owner trying to survive the gangs and familys of Liberty City. Have you ever played RAAMs shadow?
Hmmm and what other games let you play as the badguys for a bit, no matter how long or short. Hmm hard to think of many
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2017 18:35:35 GMT
Like DAO ... playing as Darkspawn? It was different. But too brief to really flesh out the character ... though with Darkspawn, maybe there wasn't much character to flesh out.
They didn't worry about a canon ending ... the point was to defeat the HoF and company ... which was fine.
The original MET is done, but we could see something like this in ME:A ... really depends on how much character development could occur in the DLC.
Take the same idea to DA2 ... play the role of the Arishok ... that would be fun ... translate that to the Archon in ME:A ... I would get that DLC.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2017 18:38:21 GMT
'Reaper Rampage' -- now that would be a great Game&Watch game... Imagine the octopus below replaced with a cuttlefish, that sort of thing. Eating flashing people'n'stuff.
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ladiesman777
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Post by ladiesman777 on Feb 20, 2017 18:50:14 GMT
Oh yea I forgot Darkspawn dlc, see Bioware has experience with this!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2017 18:53:13 GMT
In Lost and the Damned you arnt really bad guys per say. Your a biker gang and kill people no more then Niko did. Gay Tony you played a dominican with a diverse crew and diverse missions, working for a gay nightclub owner trying to survive the gangs and familys of Liberty City. Have you ever played RAAMs shadow? Hmmm and what other games let you play as the badguys for a bit, no matter how long or short. Hmm hard to think of many My problem with the DLC is it just felt like a monumental waste of time and it really didn't add much to the overall experience other than being a tedious slog.
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Post by bekkael on Feb 20, 2017 18:55:14 GMT
Darkspawn dlc was boring as all get out. I hope they don't waste time and effort on something like that again unless they put some actual storytelling effort into it.
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Feb 20, 2017 19:00:21 GMT
Only if the bad guys topple the good guys. Otherwise pointless.
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Post by Sanunes on Feb 20, 2017 19:13:53 GMT
I don't think it would work in a BioWare game since it would be an ignored DLC since people just want more with the crew they already have. I remember with Omega how upset people were that they couldn't bring their favorite squadmember along with them on the mission and could only see that being worse with something like that while focusing on the "bad side".
There are also technical problems along the way as well, I remember reading ages ago (so it might have changed with this generation) that the playable character has a lot more animations and other behind the scenes done for them because they have access to more powers/weapons/actions (such as pressing buttons). So they could have to spend a lot of time building all those animations for whoever you are playing. After they they would also have to develop and script personalities for the people in the squad and probably invent all types of new NPCs for us to fight. Now for a less story driven game probably with a FPS perspective instead of a third person I could see it being more possible then what BioWare does.
Just my 2c.
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Post by SofaJockey on Feb 20, 2017 19:36:05 GMT
The Darkspawn Chronicles was probably a better idea than execution.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 20, 2017 20:03:10 GMT
The Darkspawn Chronicles was probably a better idea than execution. It was pretty dull. Sure, you got to go around killing villagers and familar characters and such, but there was nothing but combat with text messages from the archdemon. What a micromanaging shit he was.
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ladiesman777
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Post by ladiesman777 on Feb 20, 2017 20:11:25 GMT
Right Darkspawn dlc was dull. But imagine Illusive man bossfighting with Aria T loak and other crazy cutscene scenarios
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 20, 2017 20:22:49 GMT
Well, it wouldn't be Illusive Man, nor would it be Petrovsky for that matter, since he was in command but didn't do the actual fighting personally. It'd just be a Cerberus mook we've never heard of, perhaps leading a team of other troopers.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Feb 20, 2017 20:38:37 GMT
I suppose anything is possible, but BioWare has made it rather clear in the past it isn't interested in doing any perspective other than the hero. That is always the focus for BioWare stories and I doubt that will change. Honestly, I'd rather play a protagonist who is morally ambiguous rather than being a cookie cutter villain.
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Post by themikefest on Feb 20, 2017 20:50:25 GMT
How about playing as Harbinger? ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL. At least for part of the dlc. Here's a thread I made about that. Even has a poll included.
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Post by abedsbrother on Feb 20, 2017 20:55:50 GMT
Playing as the "bad guys" could work if it was done well, like Assassin's Creed Rogue.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Feb 20, 2017 21:06:04 GMT
Playing as the "bad guys" could work if it was done well, like Assassin's Creed Rogue. You aren't really a "bad guy" in Rogue, which is why that doesn't work. In fact, you are actually a good guy that ends up saving the world. You just happen to be in a morally questionable organization. It's no different from Shepard being part of Cerberus in ME2.
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Post by Nashimura on Feb 20, 2017 21:51:13 GMT
Id like it, hell... id like a whole game where its set up that you can be more of a bad guy, Kotor/Jade Empire had quite cool 'switch to evil' moments, id like that in future bioware games.
How cool would it be if they flipped it, if your goal wasn't to "save the world" or any such noble goals, and you can be an asshole but overall you goal is nobel, but was instead your goal starts evil/bad and the accepted most natural path is to be bad, where you have to strive to be good, uncorruptible instead of that being the baseline, your good choices would actually feel more good in that context even.
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Post by abedsbrother on Feb 20, 2017 21:53:19 GMT
Playing as the "bad guys" could work if it was done well, like Assassin's Creed Rogue. You aren't really a "bad guy" in Rogue, which is why that doesn't work. In fact, you are actually a good guy that ends up saving the world. You just happen to be in a morally questionable organization. It's no different from Shepard being part of Cerberus in ME2. I thought it worked. The brilliance of Rogue is that it showed the Assassins in pre-Revolutionary America were in many ways mirrors of the Templars. Contrast that to Cerberus, which is never depicted in ME2 as an inverse of the Alliance. As to whether Shay is bad or good, well, he killed all of his former comrades because a Templar convinced him it was morally justifiable to do so (the only one that might have deserved it was Achilles, and he lives ). Which is kind of cold. I think a part of his anger comes from frustrated ambition, in addition to other issues. On a related note, does Lucy Stillman's regret over Clay Kaczmarek suddenly make her one of the "good guys"? I don't think so. But she was trying to save the world too. Contrast this to Shepard, who never wavered in his purpose, espoused no new principles and never had to compromise his old principles to work for Cerberus - because TIM deliberately kept him in the dark. As Shep asserts in ME3, he never really worked for Cerberus (Chakwas understood that). I don't doubt TIM's plan was ease Shepard into "believing in what Cerberus stands for," but that backfired spectacularly with Miranda's resignation.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2017 22:08:03 GMT
You aren't really a "bad guy" in Rogue, which is why that doesn't work. In fact, you are actually a good guy that ends up saving the world. You just happen to be in a morally questionable organization. It's no different from Shepard being part of Cerberus in ME2. Eh, I thought it worked. The brilliance of Rogue is that it showed the Assassins in pre-Revolutionary America were in many ways mirrors of the Templars. Contrast that to Cerberus, which is never depicted in ME2 as an inverse of the Alliance. As to whether Shay is bad or good, well, he killed all of his former comrades because a Templar convinced him it was morally justifiable to do so (the only one that might have deserved it was Achilles, and he lives). Which is kind of cold. I think a part of his anger comes from frustrated ambition, in addition to other issues. On a related note, does Lucy Stillman's regret over Clay Kaczmarek suddenly make her one of the "good guys"? I don't think so. This is wildly off-topic; but here goes a bunch of Assassin's Creed stuff -- Well, already in AC3 but mostly around the time Rogue and Unity came out, ubisoft was trying to recast the Templars in the mold of 'the inverse Assassins', but the idea that the two orders are similar, etc., didn't hold water at the end -- so in Syndicate, they went back to depicting Templars as the mustache-twirling cartoon evil guys, which is what they had to do in the interests of consistency. Templars up to Unity/Rogue are involved in slave trading, exploiting the poor, abusing power under the bullshit pretext of law and order, etc. etc. etc. The writing in Rogue was pretty much at the level of a fanfic, and Shay essentially went from clueless dunce to easily brainwashed dunce. Now the spoiler-within-a-spoiler: As to Lucy -- yeah, there's no justification or eventual atonement for what she did to Kaczmarek. Too bad ubisoft tried to sell the bulk of that story as DLC, and many people did not get to know about it.
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Post by abedsbrother on Feb 20, 2017 22:18:54 GMT
Eh, I thought it worked. The brilliance of Rogue is that it showed the Assassins in pre-Revolutionary America were in many ways mirrors of the Templars. Contrast that to Cerberus, which is never depicted in ME2 as an inverse of the Alliance. As to whether Shay is bad or good, well, he killed all of his former comrades because a Templar convinced him it was morally justifiable to do so (the only one that might have deserved it was Achilles, and he lives). Which is kind of cold. I think a part of his anger comes from frustrated ambition, in addition to other issues. On a related note, does Lucy Stillman's regret over Clay Kaczmarek suddenly make her one of the "good guys"? I don't think so. This is wildly off-topic; but here goes a bunch of Assassin's Creed stuff -- Well, already in AC3 but mostly around the time Rogue and Unity came out, ubisoft was trying to recast the Templars in the mold of 'the inverse Assassins', but the idea that the two orders are similar, etc., didn't hold water at the end -- so in Syndicate, they went back to depicting Templars as the mustache-twirling cartoon evil guys, which is what they had to do in the interests of consistency. Templars up to Unity/Rogue are involved in slave trading, exploiting the poor, abusing power under the bullshit pretext of law and order, etc. etc. etc. The writing in Rogue was pretty much at the level of a fanfic, and Shay essentially went from clueless dunce to easily brainwashed dunce. Now the spoiler-within-a-spoiler: As to Lucy -- yeah, there's no justification or eventual atonement for what she did to Kaczmarek. Too bad ubisoft tried to sell the bulk of that story as DLC, and many people did not get to know about it. That's too bad about Syndicate, thought that approach to the Templars had promise. And it's not too far off-topic; OP's topic is about playing as the "bad guys." Rogue is imo a great example of that.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2017 22:24:21 GMT
That's too bad about Syndicate, thought that approach to the Templars had promise. And it's not too far off-topic; OP's topic is about playing as the "bad guys." Rogue is imo a great example of that. They were way out of their depth supposedly exploring the 'grey areas' in moral judgment etc. After AC1, there was some hope of expanding into a more nuanced story, but after AC2's Templars (not just the Borgia, but everything we learnt about the Templar Order in that game) the options were extremely limited. (They could have 'retconned' the AC2 portrayal by suggesting that it was mostly the product of Clay Kaczmarek's mental illness, but they didn't do that.)
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