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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 23, 2017 23:50:18 GMT
Context
They're back:
BioWare is bringing back the best aspects of the trilogy.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: tehprincessj
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Post by tehprincessj on Feb 23, 2017 23:52:51 GMT
I love Angry Joe. Not a big fan of snooping to pick up side quests, tho.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
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Post by RoboticWater on Feb 23, 2017 23:59:31 GMT
I actually liked the example brought up in the Giant Bomb video. If there's a crime scene, I definitely want in on that. As long as those are the only kinds of popup quests we get, and not the "damn, this pizza really needs some hot sauce" sort of thing, I'll be satisfied.
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Post by Petroshenko on Feb 24, 2017 0:02:51 GMT
I actually liked the example brought up in the Giant Bomb video. If there's a crime scene, I definitely want in on that. As long as those are the only kinds of popup quests we get, and not the "damn, this pizza really needs some hot sauce" sort of thing, I'll be satisfied. Eactly. If they're part of a larger mix of aquiring side quests and ain't used as content-filler like in ME3 it's totally fine to have some pop ups.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 24, 2017 0:05:22 GMT
God dammit BioWare. This is not a huge deal to me in the grand scheme of things considering it did not actually effect my enjoyment or non enjoyment of Mass Effect three....but GD it BioWare.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 24, 2017 0:07:09 GMT
I actually liked the example brought up in the Giant Bomb video. If there's a crime scene, I definitely want in on that. As long as those are the only kinds of popup quests we get, and not the "damn, this pizza really needs some hot sauce" sort of thing, I'll be satisfied. My reaction is that at least it isn't a pop-up notification that leads to a fetch quest this time. However, how exactly do you introduce a murder subplot with Ryder as a detective as a little "Oh yeah, you've got a new quest notification, dude!"? In the Batman games it makes sense cuz Batman is a detective. In Witcher it makes sense because Geralt needs to solve monster-problems and he needs some bloody money. In Andromeda, I really don't see given our Pathfinder role what a murder matters to Ryder? Perhaps it's because it's murder of an MW thing but why does Ryder have to check it out?
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Post by Revan Reborn on Feb 24, 2017 0:08:12 GMT
Honestly, while it may have seem out of place with the original trilogy, "notification-popup-quests" actually make a lot of sense in Mass Effect Andromeda. We are the Pathfinder. One of our main tasks is to investigate and accumulate data to determine a suitable home for humanity. I don't really have a problem with the "snooping to get missions" approach as it also encourages you to explore and engage with any NPC you come across.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 24, 2017 0:08:26 GMT
God dammit BioWare. This is not a huge deal to me in the grand scheme of things considering it did not actually effect my enjoyment or non enjoyment of Mass Effect three....but GD it BioWare. It didn't? It sure did to me. I was actively boring myself with bad activities that I knew were necessary for my EMS, not to mention I like to solve what's in my quest-log.
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 24, 2017 0:10:56 GMT
I love Angry Joe. Not a big fan of snooping to pick up side quests, tho. Good thing you never had to do that, then.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 24, 2017 0:12:20 GMT
Honestly, while it may have seem out of place with the original trilogy, "notification-popup-quests" actually make a lot of sense in Mass Effect Andromeda. We are the Pathfinder. One of our main tasks is to investigate and accumulate data to determine a suitable home for humanity. I don't really have a problem with the "snooping to get missions" approach as it also encourages you to explore and engage with any NPC you come across. That's another issue. Instead of getting a notification you used to get conversations that introduce a side-quest with proper context until ME3 introduced those low-quality things. Also, radio-chatter is not good enough. Everything felt so detached when you were running around the Citadel in ME3 and almost every quest objective or delivery just leads to someone, somewhere, talking. As I see it any form of this notification introduction to a quest unless it's "Quest log updated, go talk to concerned guy" or something or "Someone's been murdered, investigate, then meet witness" is bad. If it's an excuse to create objectives that have "context" but with no real character or engaging, world-building component to it, it's completely useless to me. I'm playing a BioWare game not a mobile phone app that wastes my time with checkboxes.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 24, 2017 0:12:33 GMT
God dammit BioWare. This is not a huge deal to me in the grand scheme of things considering it did not actually effect my enjoyment or non enjoyment of Mass Effect three....but GD it BioWare. It didn't? It sure did to me. I was actively boring myself with bad activities that I knew were necessary for my EMS, not to mention I like to solve what's in my quest-log. Not really. I mean they were badly written and executed and a lot of them were fetch quests but they were not too invasive and could be ignored, given certain circumstances.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 24, 2017 0:12:52 GMT
I love Angry Joe. Not a big fan of snooping to pick up side quests, tho. Good thing you never had to do that, then. Unless you wanted to play Multiplayer to get the best ending
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 24, 2017 0:13:28 GMT
It didn't? It sure did to me. I was actively boring myself with bad activities that I knew were necessary for my EMS, not to mention I like to solve what's in my quest-log. Not really. I mean they were badly written and executed and a lot of them were fetch quests but they were not too invasive and could be ignored, given certain circumstances. Anything that enters my quest log that I haven't actively pursued myself is invasive and if I can't beat it it'll bug me the entire game. Here we go again, but Witcher 3 had so many quests it's impossible to do it all unless you're a bigger nerd than me, so I actively decided to skip several obvious NPCs with quest introductions just to be able to get the adventure I wanted. Every quest I had save those collection-things were completed because I had chosen them. ME1 is the same. Don't care about Helena Blake, go away. Thank god it kept it constrained in that game with how many side-quests were automatically put into my quest log and the same with pretty much every ME2 side-quest. I only get the objective to deliver X thing on Illium if I picked up that strange thing during Samara's side mission.
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Post by vonuber on Feb 24, 2017 0:15:38 GMT
Obligatory:
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Post by colfoley on Feb 24, 2017 0:16:23 GMT
Not really. I mean they were badly written and executed and a lot of them were fetch quests but they were not too invasive and could be ignored, given certain circumstances. Anything that enters my quest log that I haven't actively pursued myself is invasive. With respect though you do have to actively pursue it, by listening and being in a position to evesdrop, because most of those quests did not actually enter your journal until you listened to the entire conversation. Which is what made them creepy, to me.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Revan Reborn on Feb 24, 2017 0:17:37 GMT
Honestly, while it may have seem out of place with the original trilogy, "notification-popup-quests" actually make a lot of sense in Mass Effect Andromeda. We are the Pathfinder. One of our main tasks is to investigate and accumulate data to determine a suitable home for humanity. I don't really have a problem with the "snooping to get missions" approach as it also encourages you to explore and engage with any NPC you come across. That's another issue. Instead of getting a notification you used to get conversations that introduce a side-quest with proper context until ME3 introduced those low-quality things. Also, radio-chatter is not good enough. Everything felt so detached when you were running around the Citadel in ME3 and almost every quest objective or delivery just leads to someone, somewhere, talking. As I see it any form of this notification introduction to a quest unless it's "Quest log updated, go talk to concerned guy" or something or "Someone's been murdered, investigate, then meet witness" is bad. If it's an excuse to create objectives that have "context" but with no real character or engaging, world-building component to it, it's completely useless to me. I'm playing a BioWare game not a mobile phone app that wastes my time with checkboxes. In fairness, ME3 had an incredibly short development cycle and BioWare did not have very much time to make the game. Choices had to be made to get as much content in as possible. I wouldn't be surprised if this "streamlining" of this feature was a compromise just to get side quests into the game. BioWare could also justify this approach by suggesting SAM has provided Ryder with augmented capabilities being able to overhear these conversations and deducing whether investigating these potential issues could be a benefit to the Pathfinder crew or not. It's really all about execution, and unlike ME3, BioWare has had a lot of time to get this game right.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 24, 2017 0:19:36 GMT
I browsed back Twitter recently (and this isn't an attempt to slander any one individual) and I read that it was Patrick Weekes who was very proud that he had come up with "Ambient quest", "ambient dialogue" and "ambient conversation" for the Citadel... and apparently BioWare just gobbled it up and thought it was "Really clever" design.
So much so that even though people hated it in ME3 or made fun of it (at least the ambient quests) BioWare keeps doing it in their next game. Ugh. When do they realize they were on to something with ME1 but improved its mechanics and fun-factor in 2 and should've kept going with those designs than to needlessly change things that make it all worse? It's pure bastardization. What is happening to this company sometimes?
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 24, 2017 0:20:10 GMT
God dammit BioWare. This is not a huge deal to me in the grand scheme of things considering it did not actually effect my enjoyment or non enjoyment of Mass Effect three....but GD it BioWare. It didn't? It sure did to me. I was actively boring myself with bad activities that I knew were necessary for my EMS, not to mention I like to solve what's in my quest-log. That's a problem with the scanning minigame rather than the quest mechanics, isn't it? As for the quest log, I always thought that these activities shouldn't be flagged as missions in the first place.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 24, 2017 0:20:52 GMT
Anything that enters my quest log that I haven't actively pursued myself is invasive. With respect though you do have to actively pursue it, by listening and being in a position to evesdrop, because most of those quests did not actually enter your journal until you listened to the entire conversation. Which is what made them creepy, to me. How are you supposed to know which random ambient conversation is quest-related ahead of time? The Citadel was full of random conversations that just happened no matter where you went. Then suddenly you get a quest-update and you're like "What? I didn't listen, who was talking about what? Why did I get a quest?"
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Madflavor
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire
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Post by Madflavor on Feb 24, 2017 0:21:48 GMT
But here was the problem with ME3's Notification Pop Up Quests:
Step 1: Walk past somebody. Step 2: "Oh crap, I forgot my favorite stuffed turtle when we evacuated off of Planet X." Step 3: Fly to planet. Step 4: Scan planet and acquire stuffed turtle. Step 5: Walk up to npc. Step 6: "Excuse me...I think you left this back home."
The vast majority of them led to scanning bullshit. I think there's a clear difference between that, and walking by an NPC on the Nexus who goes "Fuck dude! We're lucky we escaped those Pirates on Planet Z. That distress signal was a trap."
So I think context is important here. The way Brad described walking back a murder scene, and getting a quest to investigate it, sounds good to me.
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 24, 2017 0:21:58 GMT
Good thing you never had to do that, then. Unless you wanted to play Multiplayer to get the best ending The complaint was about snooping for the sidequests, not doing them. You never had to snoop for them.
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RoboticWater
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
Posts: 219 Likes: 552
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Post by RoboticWater on Feb 24, 2017 0:23:04 GMT
I actually liked the example brought up in the Giant Bomb video. If there's a crime scene, I definitely want in on that. As long as those are the only kinds of popup quests we get, and not the "damn, this pizza really needs some hot sauce" sort of thing, I'll be satisfied. My reaction is that at least it isn't a pop-up notification that leads to a fetch quest this time. However, how exactly do you introduce a murder subplot with Ryder as a detective as a little "Oh yeah, you've got a new quest notification, dude!"? In the Batman games it makes sense cuz Batman is a detective. In Witcher it makes sense because Geralt needs to solve monster-problems and he needs some bloody money. In Andromeda, I really don't see given our Pathfinder role what a murder matters to Ryder? Perhaps it's because it's murder of an MW thing but why does Ryder have to check it out? How do RPG protagonists ever get caught up in anything? Generally it's because we're the most capable person in a un- or mis-governed region, and that's usually a good enough excuse to shove us into any old situation the writers think would be fun. Sure, BioWare could make it their mission of deconstructing the game's power fantasy: box players into their specific role, give them jurisdictional boundaries, etc., and I'm sure we'd get a more cohesive narrative. I'm sure the end result would be good too, but BioWare doesn't need to do it. I'll take that concession if it means I get to go on a murder mystery in my space game. I like murder mysteries. But hell, as Pathfinders, we're entirely justified jumping in on a case. It's either in a law-less or -lite area, it's cowboy rules, and if it's within the jurisdiction of the Initiative, we're basically Spectres, so there's not any managerial oversight that'll stop us.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
XBL Gamertag: No.
PSN: No
Posts: 5,220 Likes: 5,079
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At sunrise there is the sunset.
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To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
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thelastvanguardian
Bottom
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
No.
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Feb 24, 2017 0:23:13 GMT
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Post by colfoley on Feb 24, 2017 0:25:02 GMT
But here was the problem with ME3's Notification Pop Up Quests: Step 1: Walk past somebody. Step 2: "Oh crap, I forgot my favorite stuffed turtle when we evacuated off of Planet X." Step 3: Fly to planet. Step 4: Scan planet and acquire stuffed turtle. Step 5: Walk up to npc. Step 6: "Excuse me...I think you left this back home." The vast majority of them led to scanning bullshit. I think there's a clear difference between that, and walking by an NPC on the Nexus who goes "Fuck dude! We're lucky we escaped those Pirates on Planet Z. That distress signal was a trap." So I think context is important here. The way Brad described walking back a murder scene, and getting a quest to investigate it, sounds good to me. Actually that could work because this was a cool thing about FO 4 and Skyrim. And I was actually surprised/ pissed off at how few quests it seems I got like this in FO when it seemed to be such a huge part of the Skyrim system. Perfect example of this though was the one with the Batarian Prophet. I would have loved to fly down to Khar'shan and actually retrieve the thing while under fire.
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tehprincessj
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: tehprincessj
Posts: 250 Likes: 533
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by tehprincessj on Feb 24, 2017 0:25:12 GMT
Unless you wanted to play Multiplayer to get the best ending The complaint was about snooping for the sidequests, not doing them. You never had to snoop for them. Really? Because eavesdropping is in NO WAY snooping to you? OK.
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