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Post by nolerhn on Feb 26, 2017 1:09:27 GMT
People seem to make a lot of comments about how good side content could be modeled after the witcher 3. I wonder though...has no one played Deus Ex HR, and MD?
To me that's a fantastic model of sidequesting to emulate. That's definitely quality over quantity in those 2 games. Virtually every side quest had some sort of story, and many of them wrapped into the ancillary points of the main plot.
Even what seemed to be a basic fetch quest almost always turned into something more in those two games.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 26, 2017 1:17:33 GMT
Witcher proved it can be done so the question becomes can bioware do it? Same goes for most Zelda games and no Horizon Zero Dawn. Bioware has the capability. They just need to go bigger. Deliver on the story like the old games and add to that. They don't need to reinvent how they tell stories. Pretty much. One of the reasons i am so confident is that ME 1 was their first shooter game. Wasn't that good in that respect. ME 2 was much better. Inquisition was their first open world game.
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Post by NUM13ER on Feb 26, 2017 1:28:34 GMT
Same goes for most Zelda games and no Horizon Zero Dawn. Bioware has the capability. They just need to go bigger. Deliver on the story like the old games and add to that. They don't need to reinvent how they tell stories. Pretty much. One of the reasons i am so confident is that ME 1 was their first shooter game. Wasn't that good in that respect. ME 2 was much better. Inquisition was their first open world game. That's a good point. There's no reason to believe they've not looked at what worked with DA:I, what fell short, and what other current gen RPG's have brought to the table. It's only common sense they would have cast a critical eye at the last Bioware game that was released or looked to recent RPG titles like Deus Ex: Mankind Divided and Witcher III.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2017 1:31:12 GMT
I'm worried the only thing worthy in this game will be the characters and the story is going to be weak.
To be honest, I should already expect that.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 26, 2017 1:33:05 GMT
Ever since DA:I I feel in interviews BioWare has been like "Of course, because it's a BioWare game, it has an epic story... BUT!".
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 26, 2017 1:43:18 GMT
I'm worried the only thing worthy in this game will be the characters and the story is going to be weak. To be honest, I should already expect that. According to Mac they started drafting the story-framework by making characters. It's not a good sign. Typically a writer makes a plot out of an idea-statement like "suppose if ______ happened". Obviously some of that is done for us because Mass Effect has Mass Effect but they needed to recreate that away from the Milky Way so as an alternative we get Remnant tech, but I have a feeling this is something they created later. We also know the very first encounter with the Kett immediately leads to shooting them in the face rather than trying to create nuance and intrigue. It's first-contact, basically. My biggest hope was that the writers had thought of ME:A's plot-statement as "Suppose if we meet a new alien galaxy and experiene first contact as a player" but then you also have "The protagonist is special" and you have "EVERY PLANET HAS A STORY" but ah well. I'm sure it has good moments and great ideas, but so did DA:I. DA:I actually peaked at times where I felt it was shaping up to be real interesting but eventually it let me down again by constantly erasing its own stakes that worked well. I'm so afraid that the Hyperion will be burning as we have to explore and colonize, be in conflict with the Kett, but then we just fix Hyperion at some point and the plot lets us meander around for the sake of exploration while Archon does villainy stuff you never see and everyone goes "Ryder, we must stop Archon. He's so terrible!", and then it all culminates with some bad encounter where you kick ass and not a real denoument. If they want a kick-ass "everyone works together against Archon" end mission at least make it like Suicide mission in that everyone is shown working together and the game reinforces the themes of Ryder being the hero and his squad being like a family.
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Post by SalMasRac on Feb 26, 2017 1:48:10 GMT
They also stated this is the biggest Bioware game yet. If they deliver on more quality than quantity and still have the large maps so it feels like you are exploring a planet and with a purpose. I will be okay with it. I would rather have quality side mission and main missions like say the Arkham games, but still have the vastness of planets. Basically instead of having the same outposts very often, have more unique outposts and missions that are more spread out. That feeling in ME1 like we are in the middle of no where but you can't stop staring at the screen bc it looks so awesome is an element I want in this game. I get the feeling that the "largest game ever" is just marketing speak in that the actual play area will be massive, but most of it will be just landscape that we fly by in the Nomad. Though we'll still have to see as to the quality of the side content. Sonic the Hedgehog on Sega Genesis used BLAST PROCESSING!
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Post by colfoley on Feb 26, 2017 1:53:32 GMT
I'm worried the only thing worthy in this game will be the characters and the story is going to be weak. To be honest, I should already expect that. i find its far easier for strong characters to make up for a weak story then vice versa.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2017 1:56:34 GMT
I'm worried the only thing worthy in this game will be the characters and the story is going to be weak. To be honest, I should already expect that. i find its far easier for strong characters to make up for a weak story then vice versa. They shouldn't have to "make up" for it. I want quality in both aspects.
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Post by stealthfox94 on Feb 26, 2017 2:48:49 GMT
i find its far easier for strong characters to make up for a weak story then vice versa. They shouldn't have to "make up" for it. I want quality in both aspects. Well you're just speculating.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2017 2:49:46 GMT
They shouldn't have to "make up" for it. I want quality in both aspects. Well you're just speculating. Never said I wasn't. I'm worried the only thing worthy in this game will be the characters and the story is going to be weak. To be honest, I should already expect that.
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Post by Madflavor on Feb 26, 2017 2:56:02 GMT
Go into ME:A not expecting the writing to be as good as ME1. You'll save yourself from disappointment, and by managing your expectations, you'll probably enjoy it. That's not to say it'll be bad, but we've all known for awhile now Bioware writing isn't as good as it used to be.
If you ask me, the writing will probably be ME2 level.
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Post by Nightlife on Feb 26, 2017 4:38:32 GMT
I'm not intentionally starting 'doom' threads. I'm using you guys as my therapy and getting things off my chest. I appreciate the thoughtful discussion here, and see others had these concerns but pointed out other semi open-world games that did well (and that did not.) Yes I'm afraid it won't be the game I wanted. Can I be wrong? Sure - I hope I am. What do I want? Probably more of the same from the trilogy. But with new characters and story. I'm trying to figure out where to put my expectations. Probably better for me to go in with lower expectations, then be pleasantly surprised.
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Post by unofficialgreycolor on Feb 26, 2017 4:55:18 GMT
OP, you seem to be a bit paranoid that this game is going to be shit based off a couple of threads that I have seen you make. Why are you paranoid? I don't like the on rails experience. They can still do great story telling and missions without being so limiting. It was mostly an on rails experience because of the unfortunate technology limitations. That's one of the reasons why we are seeing more open world environments even for linear games. Edit: Dragon Age: Inquisition was Bioware's first attempt at the more open world design so naturally they are going to have some flaws. ME: Andromeda is not going to be perfect either. Hell Ubisoft is on their 20th+ open world design and they can't seem to understand that they need to innovate more. Final Fanatasy XV and Metal Gear Solid V also had issues with their first open world debut. Final Fantasy will only continue to improve on the formula. So will Bioware. Well said. A game "on rails" doesn't at all mean that the story is going to be better. Its not a correlation coefficient to say that a game on rails is going to have a better story than an open world game. FFXIII had a pretty shitty story compared to other FF games IMO and that was a game largely "on rails." TW3 was pretty much as open world as you can get and the story there was far above average. And I say this not as a TW3 fanboi but someone who is looking at things objectively. What "open world" does is not only open up the maps, but the story as well. I don't think a linear story, where there is a very precise sequence of events, is at all superior to an open story. Reason for this is because that is just not how rl works. In rl things tell a story through time. We don't focus on one thing until we find out everything there is to know about that one thing and then move on to something else, we take a little bit of this and a little bit of that until we understand things in a more holistic way. I will say that what a linear game gives is more focus for doing one thing at a time. That said, I think semi-open world is the best of both worlds here and that it allows for multiple stories to be told in one place all the while having stories to explore elsewhere as well. The devs at BW have said that the story doesn't feel constraining at all - you are free to do what you want, when you want, and that's a level of freedom that is a nice touch for an otherwise very Mass Effect, Mass Effect game.
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Post by projectpatdc on Feb 26, 2017 5:06:19 GMT
I would also say that I am not expecting this to be the best story in the series. After three games much like movies, it's hard to not tread on the familiar and pull something off that is truly incredible. I hope I am wrong and pleasantly surprised. My guess is it fall somewhere between ME1 and ME2's quality of story. It won't be anything like ME3 because ME3 was about a war where this is about exploration and mystery.
My hopes are that they deliver a good story that is about the length of ME2 with the impact and mystery of ME1, and I really want them to nail the mechanics more than anything. The gameplay really needs to be good with an intriguing, fun story. I hoping for something similar to the tone of the Star Trek reboot.
Edit: i also don't think the on rails story missions was Bioware's original vision or approach to this franchise. When EA came into the scene, things went in a completely different direction that appealed to a different fan base. I'm glad to see they are making an effort to return to the roots of ME1 but utilizing better technology and game play mechanics. In terms of skepticism, if you enjoyed ME1, you going to love this game even more.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Feb 26, 2017 5:13:31 GMT
I would also say that I am not expecting this to be the best story in the series. After three games much like movies, it's hard to not tread on the familiar and pull something off that is truly incredible. I hope I am wrong and pleasantly surprised. My guess is it fall somewhere between ME1 and ME2's quality of story. It won't be anything like ME3 because ME3 was about a war where this is about exploration and mystery. My hopes are that they deliver a good story that is about the length of ME2 with the impact and mystery of ME1, and I really want them to nail the mechanics more than anything. The gameplay really needs to be good with an intriguing, fun story. I hoping for something similar to the tone of the Star Trek reboot. Edit: i also don't think the on rails story missions was Bioware's original vision or approach to this franchise. When EA came into the scene, things went in a completely different direction that appealed to a different fan base. I'm glad to see they are making an effort to return to the roots of ME1 but utilizing better technology and game play mechanics. In terms of skepticism, if you enjoyed ME1, you going to love this game even more. I hope you are absolutely wrong in this regard. Considering ME2 had NO story, the last thing I want is for MEA to follow suit. The only thing ME2 did right was create compelling characters. Other than that, between the lack of a plot and the terrible resource minigame, it was a nightmare. The less similarities between the two, the better! I'm hoping loyalty missions are the only thing MEA is taking from ME2.
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Post by projectpatdc on Feb 26, 2017 5:26:12 GMT
I would also say that I am not expecting this to be the best story in the series. After three games much like movies, it's hard to not tread on the familiar and pull something off that is truly incredible. I hope I am wrong and pleasantly surprised. My guess is it fall somewhere between ME1 and ME2's quality of story. It won't be anything like ME3 because ME3 was about a war where this is about exploration and mystery. My hopes are that they deliver a good story that is about the length of ME2 with the impact and mystery of ME1, and I really want them to nail the mechanics more than anything. The gameplay really needs to be good with an intriguing, fun story. I hoping for something similar to the tone of the Star Trek reboot. Edit: i also don't think the on rails story missions was Bioware's original vision or approach to this franchise. When EA came into the scene, things went in a completely different direction that appealed to a different fan base. I'm glad to see they are making an effort to return to the roots of ME1 but utilizing better technology and game play mechanics. In terms of skepticism, if you enjoyed ME1, you going to love this game even more. I hope you are absolutely wrong in this regard. Considering ME2 had NO story, the last thing I want is for MEA to follow suit. The only thing ME2 did right was create compelling characters. Other than that, between the lack of a plot and the terrible resource minigame, it was a nightmare. The less similarities between the two, the better! I'm hoping loyalty missions are the only thing MEA is taking from ME2. I haven't played mE2 in years. Just as a whole, it sticks out as the most memorable/fun experience. There are parts of ME1's story that are by far my favorite though.
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Post by spacev3gan on Feb 26, 2017 5:36:35 GMT
Since Mass Effect was intended to be and ended up being a trilogy, plus the fact that Andromeda is nothing more than a spin-off that takes place somewhere in the space-time of Mass Effect Universe, one can expect it to differ in some aspects from the original trilogy.
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Post by unofficialgreycolor on Feb 26, 2017 5:44:31 GMT
I'm worried the only thing worthy in this game will be the characters and the story is going to be weak. To be honest, I should already expect that. According to Mac they started drafting the story-framework by making characters. It's not a good sign. Typically a writer makes a plot out of an idea-statement like "suppose if ______ happened". Obviously some of that is done for us because Mass Effect has Mass Effect but they needed to recreate that away from the Milky Way so as an alternative we get Remnant tech, but I have a feeling this is something they created later. I think this is a good thing because it means that the characters in the game will be superb since that is what they used as a framework for the story. Doesn't mean that its going to be a bad story either. That is not known for certain. One previewer at least said they did the opening without killing the Kett. Also, I recall another previewer saying there is some dialog options that dictate how the rest of the into mission goes. I am not worried about this at all.
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Post by snook on Feb 26, 2017 6:45:54 GMT
I think the semi-open world approach has a lot of potential to be great. I mean, through the whole 'on rails' experience of the original trilogy, I would always look at a skyline, skybox or some epic vista and think 'Man, I wish I could go there.' Now it sounds like I can.
Of course, the quality of storytelling is something I can only really judge when I play the game. So I'll wait on that. DAI had its fair share of well-written bits, it's just the rather uninspired bulk of the sidequests that washed that out. If they learned from that like they say they have, then I think the DAI formula could actually work well.
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Post by Arcian on Feb 26, 2017 8:15:38 GMT
Running Simulator: Andromeda.
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Post by kingjuly on Feb 26, 2017 13:57:49 GMT
Honestly Im not too concerned. Im inclined to believe them when they tell me that the side quests are much improved over Inquisition. As for the main story, again Im inclined to believe it'll be decent at the very least. So long as I get more Mass Effect, Im happy. I dont need them to revolutionise story telling.
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Post by Ivory Samoan on Feb 26, 2017 14:25:59 GMT
Games like The Witcher 3, Deus Ex, Horizon and Red Dead Redemption have shown that an open world can marry up with exquisite storytelling if done right...I'm hoping the main story stuff is a little on rails (it's my preference for narrative heavy parts of a RPG) but from a lot of the previews, the environmental storytelling is on point (ambient conversations, lore bits etc). The game is gated in ways that each planet has it's own story (mentioned in the Mac GI interview I think) so giving each planet a 'theme' or 'situation' could alleviate that sometime pitfall of open world games of 'too many markers, not enough focus'. I'm personally confident this is going to be good on the story front - I have a feeling there's gonna be some big ass twists re: the AI, it's motivations and who's good and who's not by the end. We don't know enough to worry about anything yet, the embargo on preview information has seen to that, so I guess it's better to remain hopeful, y'know...since we're all fans on a fan board n such
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 26, 2017 14:29:14 GMT
People seem to make a lot of comments about how good side content could be modeled after the witcher 3. I wonder though...has no one played Deus Ex HR, and MD? To me that's a fantastic model of sidequesting to emulate. That's definitely quality over quantity in those 2 games. Virtually every side quest had some sort of story, and many of them wrapped into the ancillary points of the main plot. Even what seemed to be a basic fetch quest almost always turned into something more in those two games. The difference is Witcher 3 generally has better writing, and empathy to its otherwise random quest NPCs, but I agree. Games like Deus Ex HR and MD, and I'll add in Fallout New Vegas have WAAAY better quest design.
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Post by Arcian on Feb 26, 2017 14:44:12 GMT
I'm worried the only thing worthy in this game will be the characters and the story is going to be weak. To be honest, I should already expect that. i find its far easier for strong characters to make up for a weak story then vice versa. Yeah, but ideally you want strong characters in a strong story.
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