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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 26, 2017 18:31:56 GMT
www.bombadradio.com/e/episode-268-brian-kindregan-the-art-of-storytelling-from-space-jam-to-mass-effect/Begins at 37 minute mark more or less. The idea of reposting this for you is that the interview is recent, but also because I have an interest in the development process of all three games, and I figured many of you do too  Excerpts/Snippets: - ME2's direction "Gather team and go on suicide mission" was surely a product of internal discussions of Drew and Casey - Casey Hudson and his approach to Mass Effect in general was kinda like "Brad Bird" of gaming. Clear, strong idea of where things should go, but allows input from team still - Him and other seniors had more influence on the characters than the story of ME2 - Brian wrote one of the crit-path missions of ME2 because Drew was too busy at the time - He wrote a lot of Grunt too until Luke Kristjanson handled the rest of his character Jack:- When he got assigned to Jack it had already been decided she was a convict covered in tattoos. Matt Rhodes came up with her design before the writing process began. The rest was up to Kindregan, same with the other senior writers and their characters. - Courtenay Taylor gave Brian a hug when she found out he was writing her because she felt like Jack was written for her. - Brain says observation is one of the best skills writers should have. Observe people around you and think about the way people interact and take from it. Jack came from people Brian knew, and the rest was empathy for what character he was shaping. "Imagine they're real people" Samara:- He felt people that wouldn't get Samara wouldn't think much of her but those that did would relate very much with her. - The core of who Samara is, is "wisdom" and "self-control". This is why she's "old", because she's got life-experience. - There's an "easter-egg" scene where she says that self-control is all she has. (anybody know which one?) Brain left in 2009 when he was all done with work on ME2. He thinks BioWare intended to have him for the trilogy but he left to work on with Blizzard. Jack was passed on to Patrick Weekes and Samara was passed on to Sylvia Feketekuty for ME3.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2017 19:47:11 GMT
- There's an "easter-egg" scene where she says that self-control is all she has. (anybody know which one?) Samara's "easter egg" line triggers if a paragon Shepard hits on her (1:17 in the following video): |
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Post by mrfixit on Feb 26, 2017 20:13:12 GMT
Linkenski, I gotta say your avatar is very nifty. Mac Walters gives off some serious Kevin Spacey vibes.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 26, 2017 20:22:01 GMT
I knew I had to capture it the second I saw it. Mac looks smug and it's... well, it's Mac so it's totally avatar-worthy
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Post by opuspace on Feb 27, 2017 7:18:14 GMT
That was fascinating what was mentioned about Samara. Do you think it speaks to the loss of control she felt when her daughters lost their future and she took up the role of a Justicar to gain some sense of control back?
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 27, 2017 21:39:46 GMT
That was fascinating what was mentioned about Samara. Do you think it speaks to the loss of control she felt when her daughters lost their future and she took up the role of a Justicar to gain some sense of control back? Her daughters and the Ardat Yakshi are all products of her theme. They and Samara's reactions are developed around Kindregan's ideas of "self-control" I believe. To answer your question, basically yes. I also had her daughters in mind when he talked about it. I really think Brian's characters are overlooked. I know Jack gets love in ME3. She was full of resolve in that game and slightly toned down from her asocialness if not completely. She also couldn't swear because... Patrick is pretty Vanilla (look at Tali's writing). Jack is also someone I thought was interesting in ME2. Her arc reminded me of Taxi Driver's Travis Bickle in that it's also about an individual who is deeply troubled by her perception of the world and how it deludes her into self-destructive behavior but the writing had the subtlety to not outright explain this (like any Christopher Nolan movie would've) and Samara is kind of the same. You just empathise with her. You can sense the sadness she must feel when she stoically talks about her daughters and her code. I love how everything comes together with Samara once you learn about her kids. I think it's because Morinth is like the antithesis to Samara (extremely dangerous but no self-control) but because she's also her daughter there's a lot of "Samara" in her and it makes Samara sad but shows her self-control because she doesn't show that sadness. Furthermore, that she's willing to erase a part of herself in almost cold-blood to show to what lengths she'll go to fulfill the ways of a justicar, it's pretty heavy stuff. |
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Post by opuspace on Feb 27, 2017 21:49:23 GMT
Link"Guess"skiI do agree in that I think Samara and Jack are frequently misunderstood. Jack doesn't quite fit the label of unstable because she has clear triggers that don't run contrary and remain consistent. Once she's in a place she feels safe enough in, she's far more mellow than she's given credit for. Her ability to feel empathy for the other kids is another indicator that makes me hesitate to call her psychotic. She's practically almost normal, just with a lot of understandably unhealthy background. I'm willing to bet that Samara was exactly like Morinth in her younger days when it comes to that hedonistic wild side, just with a conscience. Part of me wondered if the Code was another way of her relying upon something when she could not trust herself to get something right.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2017 22:00:55 GMT
I can't get behind Samara's arc at all. A parent hunting down and murdering her own child just sits wrong with me. I could understand not sheltering such a child from law even ensuring that the law catches up to them... but becoming a vigilante blindly following an ancient black and white code... just to take one of them out of this world. No.
Jack I can learn to sympathize with; but not Samara. I frequently take Morinth on board and allow her to redeem herself on the SM by selecting her as the second 2nd fire team leader. She dies saving the others.
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Post by AnDromedary on Feb 27, 2017 22:09:55 GMT
The one thing that irritated me about Jack in ME2 was that my first Shepard (who was a very paragon) wanted to try and help her and somehow got hijacked into a romance with her. That wasn't entirely clear to me at the time and suddenly she showed up in the cabin. If you refuse her then, it's pretty horrible scene, so my Shep ended up with Jack but the headcanon that I had in mind for that Shepard got completely messed up.
IMO, there were some dialogue options missing there. Otherwise, I thought she was a very interesting character in ME2, though her visual design was ridiculous.
I also thought her turn in ME3 - while heartwarming and generally bringing a smile to my face - is a bit too much, too ... convenient. Especially that scene with her Varren in Citadel was definitely over the top (though it probably was meant to be as a joke).
Samara was interesting in the sense that her character showed how different morality can be for the Asari (who otherwise seem so open and approachable). I always thought that the justicars were the natural reaction to this trait of the species. A compensatory mechanism if you will, where such a tolerant species needs (or at least needed) to be policed by a strict code when necessary in order to enjoy their freedoms otherwise.
I completely got the self-control theme but she never appeared to me as particularly wise. A person who dedicates herself to such a strict set of rules in such a fanatical way as Samara did cannot portray wisdom for me. Rather she always gave me a sense of compensating for personal insecurity (which would also make sense in Samara's case as she is so conflicted about her daughters).
Anyway, thanks for sharing that interview. Always interesting to hear this sort of stuff.
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Post by dmc1001 on Feb 28, 2017 0:06:16 GMT
I can't get behind Samara's arc at all. A parent hunting down and murdering her own child just sits wrong with me. I could understand not sheltering such a child from law even ensuring that the law catches up to them... but becoming a vigilante blindly following an ancient black and white code... just to take one of them out of this world. No. Jack I can learn to sympathize with; but not Samara. I frequently take Morinth on board and allow her to redeem herself on the SM by selecting her as the second 2nd fire team leader. She dies saving the others. I can get behind it but only because every child of Samara's was Ardat-Yakshi. If it had just been one, then maybe she'd pass on the hunting, but it's all of them. She feels responsible for bringing something monstrous into the world. She is also seemingly alone, with no second parent around to help shoulder the burden. And when we hear things like "astronomical body count" in reference to Ardat-Yakshi, it's clear why they have to be stopped. When I actually look at the behavior of Morinth, it's like a split personality. She's this hedonistic but almost loving person. She wants to enjoy herself and make things very pleasurable for her partners. But then there's that other side of her. She switches gears and can't seem to help murdering her victims. The one part truly does want to be good to others but the other doesn't care. Once the victim is dead, the good side comes back and sweeps aside any idea of wrongdoing. It's sort of fascinating and heartbreaking but nevertheless an Ardat-Yakshi who refuses to accept the damage they do has to be put down. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2017 0:31:01 GMT
I can't get behind Samara's arc at all. A parent hunting down and murdering her own child just sits wrong with me. I could understand not sheltering such a child from law even ensuring that the law catches up to them... but becoming a vigilante blindly following an ancient black and white code... just to take one of them out of this world. No. Jack I can learn to sympathize with; but not Samara. I frequently take Morinth on board and allow her to redeem herself on the SM by selecting her as the second 2nd fire team leader. She dies saving the others. I can get behind it but only because every child of Samara's was Ardat-Yakshi. If it had just been one, then maybe she'd pass on the hunting, but it's all of them. She feels responsible for bringing something monstrous into the world. She is also seemingly alone, with no second parent around to help shoulder the burden. And when we hear things like "astronomical body count" in reference to Ardat-Yakshi, it's clear why they have to be stopped. When I actually look at the behavior of Morinth, it's like a split personality. She's this hedonistic but almost loving person. She wants to enjoy herself and make things very pleasurable for her partners. But then there's that other side of her. She switches gears and can't seem to help murdering her victims. The one part truly does want to be good to others but the other doesn't care. Once the victim is dead, the good side comes back and sweeps aside any idea of wrongdoing. It's sort of fascinating and heartbreaking but nevertheless an Ardat-Yakshi who refuses to accept the damage they do has to be put down. However, two of the three don't need to be hunted though. They chose seclusion and this is revealed in ME2 so it's not just a flip they made to the story line in ME3. Also, the whole line she gives in ME2 about there only being 3 in existence, all hers... really doubtful even then. If it were that rare, then no monastery for two of them to have chosen seclusion would exist since that would instantly put non-Ardat-Yakshi into contact with them to maintain the monastery. After one kills Morinth, Samara indicates that she'll keep hunting for Ardat-Yakshi because they might be more. Well, she should know there are more because two of her daughters are housed in a monastery especially built for Ardat-Yakshi. The story is further undermined in ME3 when Falere (in a non-imported file where Samara is not present) indicates quite clearly that the Reapers are only using Ardat-Yakshi to create banshees... and we certainly see a number of them dead in the monastery and we face more than 3 during the game... even though, after the monastery is destroyed, Falere should be the only one left. IMO, the whole situation is just not well constructed. It contradicts itself continually. |
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Post by opuspace on Feb 28, 2017 3:08:54 GMT
However, two of the three don't need to be hunted though. They chose seclusion and this is revealed in ME2 so it's not just a flip they made to the story line in ME3. Also, the whole line she gives in ME2 about there only being 3 in existence, all hers... really doubtful even then. If it were that rare, then no monastery for two of them to have chosen seclusion would exist since that would instantly put non-Ardat-Yakshi into contact with them to maintain the monastery. After one kills Morinth, Samara indicates that she'll keep hunting for Ardat-Yakshi because they might be more. Well, she should know there are more because two of her daughters are housed in a monastery especially built for Ardat-Yakshi. The story is further undermined in ME3 when Falere (in a non-imported file where Samara is not present) indicates quite clearly that the Reapers are only using Ardat-Yakshi to create banshees... and we certainly see a number of them dead in the monastery and we face more than 3 during the game... even though, after the monastery is destroyed, Falere should be the only one left. IMO, the whole situation is just not well constructed. It contradicts itself continually. Samara was phrasing it as "three in existence that she's aware of". It's not a lie, just carefully worded so that the lines by themselves are true. The Justicar Order is an officially acknowledged organization by the Asari government so Samara is NOT a vigilante taking matters into her own hands. She's underwent training and gone through the legal channels. Given that she's been hunting Morinth for 300 years, we can't say how it originally started. Perhaps Samara only intended to bring her to the Monastery alive but was met with resistance. We do know that Samara will exploit the Code as far as it allows to avoid unnecessary killing like with that police detective. Meanwhile, I have no sympathy for Morinth. Self-absorbed, lying, pities only her own situation and not what she puts others through, she goes and kills a girl who loved and trusted her with no remorse whatsoever. She even feeds Shepard a load of bull about Nef's experience being pleasant. 300 years to minimize the damage by selecting criminals and she doesn't even try to protect others unless she's getting something out of it. There's no evidence to trust her as she repeatedly lies and is clearly in it for herself. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2017 3:37:43 GMT
However, two of the three don't need to be hunted though. They chose seclusion and this is revealed in ME2 so it's not just a flip they made to the story line in ME3. Also, the whole line she gives in ME2 about there only being 3 in existence, all hers... really doubtful even then. If it were that rare, then no monastery for two of them to have chosen seclusion would exist since that would instantly put non-Ardat-Yakshi into contact with them to maintain the monastery. After one kills Morinth, Samara indicates that she'll keep hunting for Ardat-Yakshi because they might be more. Well, she should know there are more because two of her daughters are housed in a monastery especially built for Ardat-Yakshi. The story is further undermined in ME3 when Falere (in a non-imported file where Samara is not present) indicates quite clearly that the Reapers are only using Ardat-Yakshi to create banshees... and we certainly see a number of them dead in the monastery and we face more than 3 during the game... even though, after the monastery is destroyed, Falere should be the only one left. IMO, the whole situation is just not well constructed. It contradicts itself continually. Samara was phrasing it as "three in existence that she's aware of". It's not a lie, just carefully worded so that the lines by themselves are true. The Justicar Order is an officially acknowledged organization by the Asari government so Samara is NOT a vigilante taking matters into her own hands. She's underwent training and gone through the legal channels. Given that she's been hunting Morinth for 300 years, we can't say how it originally started. Perhaps Samara only intended to bring her to the Monastery alive but was met with resistance. We do know that Samara will exploit the Code as far as it allows to avoid unnecessary killing like with that police detective. Meanwhile, I have no sympathy for Morinth. Self-absorbed, lying, pities only her own situation and not what she puts others through, she goes and kills a girl who loved and trusted her with no remorse whatsoever. She even feeds Shepard a load of bull about Nef's experience being pleasant. 300 years to minimize the damage by selecting criminals and she doesn't even try to protect others unless she's getting something out of it. There's no evidence to trust her as she repeatedly lies and is clearly in it for herself. If her other two daughters are in a monastery set up for Ardat-Yakshi, Samara must know that there are more than just her 2 daughters in that monastery (i.e that there are more than 2 in existence). The line is poorly written. She's part of an official order whose purpose is to protect the innocent, not to exclusively hunt down Ardat-Yakshi... that's Samara's own personal vendetta/cause what have you. I have no sympathy for mothers who desire to kill their children... and that is, unfortunately, an IRL disorder. |
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Post by opuspace on Feb 28, 2017 5:36:57 GMT
If her other two daughters are in a monastery set up for Ardat-Yakshi, Samara must know that there are more than just her 2 daughters in that monastery (i.e that there are more than 2 in existence). The line is poorly written. She's part of an official order whose purpose is to protect the innocent, not to exclusively hunt down Ardat-Yakshi... that's Samara's own personal vendetta/cause what have you. I have no sympathy for mothers who desire to kill their children... and that is, unfortunately, an IRL disorder. Of course she would know of other Ardat Yakshi. But of the type where their condition is lethal, she only knows three who have it. Her point was that, nothing more, nothing less. The Code itself is so strict about the truth that police officer Anaya could take Samara's vouch for Shepard as evidence. I think you're misinterpreting what the Asari intended the Justicar Code for. The Code was not created to spread enlightenment, according to Samara. It was meant to resolve dangerous matters in as absolute manner as possible. While innocent lives are given priority, they are not obligated to spare murderers like Morinth. We have seen Samara attempt mercy though. Like when she gave a mercenary a chance to live three times even with a weapon pointed at her face. If Samara acted the way other people thought she would, she should have killed the merc right then and there for attempting murder. We have seen Samara refuse to kill her last daughter, so what was it that would push her to kill Morinth? Maybe it could be like in "Of Mice and Men" where it's not a desire to kill Morinth but an obligation borne out of Morinth's CENTURIES OF SERIAL MURDER? Somehow I miss where Samara is a worse villain than Morinth's selfishness where she brainwashed entire villages to give her their children to kill as a drug high. |
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 28, 2017 16:45:14 GMT
I can't get behind Samara's arc at all. A parent hunting down and murdering her own child just sits wrong with me. I could understand not sheltering such a child from law even ensuring that the law catches up to them... but becoming a vigilante blindly following an ancient black and white code... just to take one of them out of this world. No. Jack I can learn to sympathize with; but not Samara. I frequently take Morinth on board and allow her to redeem herself on the SM by selecting her as the second 2nd fire team leader. She dies saving the others. I fail to remember if there were any Ardat Yakshi monestaries to speak of in ME2 or if it was just another lore contrivance in ME3, but regardless Morinth is a killer who actively seeks out victims. I'm for the idea that as a parent you'll support your kid no matter how far they sink but I understand those that don't. A parent is not accountable for every misdeed of their child and for Samara you could say perhaps other Ardat Yakshi than Morinth learn self regulation or go to monestaries to keep themselves from harming others -- morinth refused to stay in line and as such it's both a personal plight and an obligation by the code for Samara to kill her own child. You can tell it deeply affects her underneath her mask. I always saw it as is Samara is putting her daughter out of her misery. It's not unjust or wrong. It's just pretty sad. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2017 17:15:49 GMT
I'm not, necessarily, for parents supporting their kids no matter how far they sink. There is such a thing as a warped sort of "altruism" that causes some parents to murder their children; and I think there are seeds of that presented in Samara's character. The decision to either take Samara or Morinth onto the team is merely not, IMO, as cut and dried as many people make it out to be. It's a case, again, of Bioware trying to present opposing sides of a moral dilemma and then just leaving it to the player to decide. I certainly realize I'm not deciding in the same direction as the vast majority of players of this game. In ME2, Samara does clearly indicate that two of her daughters "chose seclusion"; and she also clearly states that "only three are known to be in existence." ( She does not state this as though she only knows of 3, she states it in a manner that clearly suggests that only three were known to exist by anyone. The codex in ME2 clearly stats Samara clearly lied to Shepard (or else the author of her didn't consult with the writer of the Codex). The whole situation broadly touches on a couple of very difficult psychological issues IRL... and it doesn't do it very well, IMO. |
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Post by dmc1001 on Feb 28, 2017 18:51:36 GMT
Samara clearly lied to Shepard (or else the author of her didn't consult with the writer of the Codex). The whole situation broadly touches on a couple of very difficult psychological issues IRL... and it doesn't do it very well, IMO. Wait, you really think BioWare was attempting to compare Samara to women who kill their children? I think you're misreading it. Samara felt responsible for bringing a monster into the world and felt it her duty to stop her. That is to say, Morinth truly is a monster. Samara didn't make it up. |
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Feb 28, 2017 19:48:00 GMT
This is not to mention how many chances Samara had probably already given Morinth. Their banter when they confront each other is telling that they've been through mom-daughter talks about her "misbehavior" before. Morinth full-well knows what she's doing is bad. It's just that she doesn't have the same freedom as most from being born with such a terrible impairment it drove her psychopathy, which the codex touches on too. Her other daughters are not dangerous, only Morinth and Samara both as a space-cop-agent thing and as a mom has the responsibility of stopping it. She has the choice of letting her daughter live and kill hundreds more on her conscience or she can end the life of her own child to avoid more murder.
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Post by AnDromedary on Feb 28, 2017 20:33:59 GMT
I do get that Samara wants to hunt down her daughter because she remains a dangerous individual for which she (Samara) feels some responsibility.
What I am not on board with is her dedication to killing her (and Samara's plan was to kill her even before the mission). I don't think Morinth deserves death. She has a psychological and physiological disorder. She definitely needs to be apprehended for the safety of the public but that should be the plan, not to kill her.
I bet any Asari psychologist would love to study her, especially given that she seems to be a psychopath as well as an Ardath'Yakshi. How do these two issues correlate, are they causal? Is there some treatment that might work?
I see Morinth as much a victim of her condition as I see Samara as a victim of her own guilt about something she clearly had and has only limited control over.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2017 21:44:55 GMT
Samara clearly lied to Shepard (or else the author of her didn't consult with the writer of the Codex). The whole situation broadly touches on a couple of very difficult psychological issues IRL... and it doesn't do it very well, IMO. Wait, you really think BioWare was attempting to compare Samara to women who kill their children? I think you're misreading it. Samara felt responsible for bringing a monster into the world and felt it her duty to stop her. That is to say, Morinth truly is a monster. Samara didn't make it up. 1) She expressly rejects finding out anything about the people she kills beyond the fact that they've done wrong ("If I must kill a man because he has done wrong, do I really wish to know that he is a devoted father?") 2) She's does not say that she's doing this to protect society, she's doing it for her own redemption ("Morinth's conditiion is my fault and my redemption lies in killing her.) 3) She herself admits to killing people before she became a justicar. ("I spent my youth on the move adventuring. I killed people, mated with them, or just danced the night away.") There is no indication of need for those killings and no sign that she bears any remorse for it. In fact, she sounds very much like a young Morinth herself. 4) Finally she declares her life purpose, not as being an administrator of justice, but rather: "I sat in a med lab while a near-sighted doctor droned at me and I learned that nothing was as I thought it would be. I gave up all that I possessed. I own nothing, claim nothing, all my knowledge will die with me. Now my purpose is to destroy my own children."Note her use of the plural here... despite knowing that two of her children chose seclusion and only 1 ran; and therefore, 2 of her children would not need to be destroyed. Also, what it says in the ME2 Codex is in direct contradiction to her claim that there are only 3 in existence and all 3 are her children. Sorry, something is very wrong with Samara's "logic." Yes, there is an element of "guilt" but it's disproportionate to the problem as Samara herself depicts it. From this conversation, there is little doubt in my mind that she doesn't want to stop at just killing Morinth... she tells me point blank that she's out to destroy her CHILDREN (not child) and not for what they done; but moreso because what she dreamed for herself was taken away. ... and this is the only conversation Shepard has to go on BEFORE doing the loyalty mission where he/she must choose between the two. The other conversations come after the choice has been made. |
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Post by mrfixit on Feb 28, 2017 22:38:22 GMT
What I am not on board with is her dedication to killing her (and Samara's plan was to kill her even before the mission). I don't think Morinth deserves death. She has a psychological and physiological disorder. She definitely needs to be apprehended for the safety of the public but that should be the plan, not to kill her. If we are talking about a society that allows death penalty, then Morinth absolutely deserves to die. She is a remorseless murderer that has killed dozens if not hundreds of innocent people throughout her "career"; a serial killer of astounding proportions. She is also not insane nor does she have a psychological condition that would make her unaccountable and could serve as "insanity defense". Morinth is most likely a psychopath (which, contrary to what the name implies, is not an illness). |
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Post by AnDromedary on Feb 28, 2017 22:56:11 GMT
What I am not on board with is her dedication to killing her (and Samara's plan was to kill her even before the mission). I don't think Morinth deserves death. She has a psychological and physiological disorder. She definitely needs to be apprehended for the safety of the public but that should be the plan, not to kill her. If we are talking about a society that allows death penalty, then Morinth absolutely deserves to die. She is a remorseless murderer that has killed dozens if not hundreds of innocent people throughout her "career"; a serial killer of astounding proportions. She is also not insane nor does she have a psychological condition that would make her unaccountable and could serve as "insanity defense". Morinth is most likely a psychopath (which, contrary to what the name implies, is not an illness). Even in a society that allows the death penalty, this kind of penalty (especially this kind) should be dealt out only after apprehending the subject and a proper trial where the guilt of the individual, all the circumstances of their deeds and the merit of the penalty in this case are laid out and argued over in a court of law. Sending a killer after her (especially one that is clearly emotionally involved in the case) definitely cannot be the way to go here. Besides, this is only if you condone the death penalty in the first place and if you assume that it would fit here. I am not entirely sure if that last part about a psychological condition (in combination with the physiological condition of being an AY) is not a mitigating circumstance to some extent, that is something that should be determined by Asari specialists. But as I wrote before, that is all applying human moral standards to an alien culture. It may very well be that for the Asari, all of this is perfectly fine, due to their own biological and cultural evolution. As Is said, that perspective is what I find most interesting about Samara's arc. Doesn't mean I have to be on board with her actions though. |
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Post by mrfixit on Feb 28, 2017 23:12:27 GMT
I don't disagree with any of that. I replied to you saying "I don't think Morinth deserves death". My personal opinion is that a serial killer with her resume does deserve death in a legal system where death penalty exists.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2017 23:44:55 GMT
I don't disagree with any of that. I replied to you saying "I don't think Morinth deserves death". My personal opinion is that a serial killer with her resume does deserve death in a legal system where death penalty exists. I agree... and when I do take her aboard the ship, she dies "redeeming" herself by saving the others as my second 2nd fire team leader. But I also think that we are being told that Samara is also potentially a "remorseless murderer"... one who decided for herself that her children (all of them) deserved death because of the hopes and dreams she lost when she found out they were AY. I can imagine that "near-sighted" (i.e. short-sighted) doctor giving her the stats - 1% of all asari are AY and only a small percentage of those are so big a problem that they have to be executed... and I can imagine Samara just not listening to the hope there but just hearing that she had 3 "defective" children. Her desire to hunt them down and kill them was so great that she gave up everything in order to insert herself into a position of unaccountable authority in order to carry out that objective. Furthermore, she admitted to Shepard that she killed people before she eve became a justicar; and she offered no justification or gave any sign of remore for those killings (however many there were). |
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Post by AnDromedary on Mar 1, 2017 0:11:14 GMT
I don't disagree with any of that. I replied to you saying "I don't think Morinth deserves death". My personal opinion is that a serial killer with her resume does deserve death in a legal system where death penalty exists. I agree... and when I do take her aboard the ship, she dies "redeeming" herself by saving the others as my second 2nd fire team leader. But I also think that we are being told that Samara is also potentially a "remorseless murderer"... one who decided for herself that her children (all of them) deserved death because of the hopes and dreams she lost when she found out they were AY. I can imagine that "near-sighted" (i.e. short-sighted) doctor giving her the stats - 1% of all asari are AY and only a small percentage of those are so big a problem that they have to be executed... and I can imagine Samara just not listening to the hope there but just hearing that she had 3 "defective" children. Her desire to hunt them down and kill them was so great that she gave up everything in order to insert herself into a position of unaccountable authority in order to carry out that objective. Furthermore, she admitted to Shepard that she killed people before she eve became a justicar; and she offered no justification or gave any sign of remore for those killings (however many there were). For me, with the Shepards that are supposed to most represent my own stance on things, I roleplay them to get somewhat sucked into Samara's LM. As in: They hope that during the mission they will find a way to capture rather than kill Morinth. However, when the situation happens as it does, they do side with Samara because at this point, the choice has boiled down to decide which one should live and wich one should die. I'll take the self-righteous pseudo-religious fanatic, which has at least sworn herself to my service for now over the unpredictable psychopathic serial killer succubus with mind control powers any day but it's not a great choice and it doesn't mean I like Samara or condone her actions. However, I do have to disagree with your asertion that Samara wants all her children dead. You are correct about this line of dialogue but IMO it's a weird line and possibly an oversight by Kindregan. There is nothing else there indicating that she wants Falere and Rila dead. All indications even in ME2 say the opposite (look e.g. at the Shadow Broker terminal). She seems torn about having to kill Morinth as well. ME3 then makes it very very clear that she'd rather kill herself than her daughters. So yea, while that one line is there, where it should have been "child", overall, I don't get the impression that this is about Samara wanting to kill all her daughters. Would have been an interesting question to ask in the interview though. |
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