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Post by dazzarlok on Mar 2, 2017 15:33:55 GMT
Yeah really. I'm not saying ME3 SP or ME2 SP were super difficult or anything, but they definitely provided more of a challenge than ME1; I couldn't faceroll my way through those games like I could ME1. In one of my ME1 playthroughs as a Soldier, I never, ever died. Ever. Cover? What's that? I could just run out in the middle of a firefight and barely get scratched. Not to mention my Assault Rifle was able to be modded in such a way that I could literally hold down the trigger for the full duration of a fight and my weapon would never overheat. Even on the highest difficulty, enemies would drop within a few shots. Don't even get me started on Adept lol. Basically, with ME2 and ME3, I never had issues like what I had with ME1. The combat in ME1 could easily be broken If you want to know why singularity doesn't work on protected enemies in ME2/ME3, ME1 is your answer Exactly! lol
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Post by Psychevore on Mar 2, 2017 15:36:22 GMT
If you want to know why singularity doesn't work on protected enemies in ME2/ME3, ME1 is your answer Exactly! lol 'Oh look, a room full of Geth' *space magic* 'Oh look, a room full of flying, helpless Geth'
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Post by dazzarlok on Mar 2, 2017 15:51:06 GMT
'Oh look, a room full of Geth' *space magic* 'Oh look, a room full of flying, helpless Geth' Don't forget Stasis Not to mention the fact that, with the right Biotic Amps and talents, cooldowns are practically non-existent, so.... crowd control for days!
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Post by degs29 on Mar 2, 2017 16:05:14 GMT
Frankly, I don't see this great distinction between ME:A and those games you mentioned as having a more robust enemy design. Maybe it falls somewhat short (I'll judge that when I play it), but if it does it isn't significantly so.
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 2, 2017 16:11:31 GMT
'Oh look, a room full of Geth' *space magic* 'Oh look, a room full of flying, helpless Geth' In ME1 I could suspend a friggin armature in the air. Space magic indeed.
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Post by duckley on Mar 2, 2017 17:07:08 GMT
The enemy design isn't a big deal for me. Bioware games, from my perspective, focus on story and relationships first and then the other stuff.
If what this game will lack (assuming like most game, this one will have its flaws) is imnportant to a player - then I assume the player wont buy or play this particular game.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2017 17:33:46 GMT
Enemy design is indeed disappointing. From their attacks to their AI. None of them look any way near threatening. they just stand there like idiots, like target practice. They don't seem alive or like they are aware of their surroundings. That fiend especially is a sad thing to watch. You seee a big monster and you think alright that's a special enemy, gonna be a fun fight, just to realise that it's specialty is to be the dumbest of them all. It walks in slow motion, unable to reach you in time because its' extremely sad and poor pathfinding is terrible, so it gives up and stands there and probably praying so you put it out of it's misery as you shoot it. While Ryder gets all these cool OP stuff in comparison to Shepard (access of gazilion of skills of all kinds to jet pack that can get you out of danger any time), enemies get dumbed down and look absolutely ridiculous. And don't tell me it was easy difficulty, because we all know AI won't get more intelligent on higher difficulties, they will just get shields, armour, more HP and will deal more damage. This is how whole trilogy worked. AI in ME3, while not perfect, knew how to take cover, knew how to dodge your biotics, knew how to flank, knew how to flush you out of cover with grenades and they didn't look like freaking idiots without a brain. Go play me3 mp on bronze and you'll see AI behaves the same, it's just not so tough and aggressive as on higher difficulty. Their moves, however, are the same, they know how to take cover, keep distance, flank etc. If you were running towards your target to melee them, they didn't stand like an idiot, doing nothing. They fought back. Assault trooper smaked you with shock baton, Marauder, protheans, geth and others elbowed you etc. I'm not saying the game will be bad, I'm just trying to point these things out and say that I agree with OP that concerns are justified. You can't just fix stuff like this with a quick patch. And also top kek for people who say it's not a big deal because combat is not what's Mass effect is all about, while there is combat in majority of missions and pretty good big part of that is combat , which is in most cases unavoidable. If you wanted to advance the story in trilogy, you had to do a lot of combat. It won't be any different now. Also, multiplayer is all about combat. So skip the BS that combat is not important. Yes, it's not the main focus, but it's very important part of the game. And if someone is passionate about it and voices their concerns, you don't get to call them a troll and hater, just because they donn't share the same opinion as you and because you play game for the story. Guess, what? People are different and play the game for different aspects. If story would suck, you bet your ass you would not be happy and would probably want to give your negative feedback to Bioware. Let others do the same. As you read through the thread, it becomes obvious that most posters/biodrones immediately look for a way to shut down any sort of criticism (without discussing about it) then proceed to their usual circle-jerk. The points you've made are good; to reiterate, - Gazilion of gameplay choices/mobility (12 abilities + infinite jet-pack for ridiculous amounts of vertical+horizontal mobility) - yet the enemy design doesn't take that into account. - Enemy AI - what goes on top of the underlying enemy design - is basically complete garbage. The whole enemy package is lackluster. For biodrones reading this, please try to refute this. Protip: you can't. I've yet encountered any valid argument proving my claims to be wrong. The typical "ME3 did it, so MEA doesn't need to improve" has been thrown around so many times I've lost count. If you're really comparing MEA to a game from 2012, which arguably does things even better, then you're a very sad person. I've also seen more of the "gameplay doesn't matter, what matters is the story!" bullshit. That kingjuly post that everyone agrees with? Just bashes the OP and misses the entire point of my complaint.
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Post by Psychevore on Mar 2, 2017 18:13:33 GMT
Enemy design is indeed disappointing. From their attacks to their AI. None of them look any way near threatening. they just stand there like idiots, like target practice. They don't seem alive or like they are aware of their surroundings. That fiend especially is a sad thing to watch. You seee a big monster and you think alright that's a special enemy, gonna be a fun fight, just to realise that it's specialty is to be the dumbest of them all. It walks in slow motion, unable to reach you in time because its' extremely sad and poor pathfinding is terrible, so it gives up and stands there and probably praying so you put it out of it's misery as you shoot it. While Ryder gets all these cool OP stuff in comparison to Shepard (access of gazilion of skills of all kinds to jet pack that can get you out of danger any time), enemies get dumbed down and look absolutely ridiculous. And don't tell me it was easy difficulty, because we all know AI won't get more intelligent on higher difficulties, they will just get shields, armour, more HP and will deal more damage. This is how whole trilogy worked. AI in ME3, while not perfect, knew how to take cover, knew how to dodge your biotics, knew how to flank, knew how to flush you out of cover with grenades and they didn't look like freaking idiots without a brain. Go play me3 mp on bronze and you'll see AI behaves the same, it's just not so tough and aggressive as on higher difficulty. Their moves, however, are the same, they know how to take cover, keep distance, flank etc. If you were running towards your target to melee them, they didn't stand like an idiot, doing nothing. They fought back. Assault trooper smaked you with shock baton, Marauder, protheans, geth and others elbowed you etc. I'm not saying the game will be bad, I'm just trying to point these things out and say that I agree with OP that concerns are justified. You can't just fix stuff like this with a quick patch. And also top kek for people who say it's not a big deal because combat is not what's Mass effect is all about, while there is combat in majority of missions and pretty good big part of that is combat , which is in most cases unavoidable. If you wanted to advance the story in trilogy, you had to do a lot of combat. It won't be any different now. Also, multiplayer is all about combat. So skip the BS that combat is not important. Yes, it's not the main focus, but it's very important part of the game. And if someone is passionate about it and voices their concerns, you don't get to call them a troll and hater, just because they donn't share the same opinion as you and because you play game for the story. Guess, what? People are different and play the game for different aspects. If story would suck, you bet your ass you would not be happy and would probably want to give your negative feedback to Bioware. Let others do the same. As you read through the thread, it becomes obvious that most posters/biodrones immediately look for a way to shut down any sort of criticism (without discussing about it) then proceed to their usual circle-jerk. The points you've made are good; to reiterate, - Gazilion of gameplay choices/mobility (12 abilities + infinite jet-pack for ridiculous amounts of vertical+horizontal mobility) - yet the enemy design doesn't take that into account. - Enemy AI - what goes on top of the underlying enemy design - is basically complete garbage. The whole enemy package is lackluster. For biodrones reading this, please try to refute this. Protip: you can't. I've yet encountered any valid argument proving my claims to be wrong. The typical "ME3 did it, so MEA doesn't need to improve" has been thrown around so many times I've lost count. If you're really comparing MEA to a game from 2012, which arguably does things even better, then you're a very sad person. I've also seen more of the "gameplay doesn't matter, what matters is the story!" bullshit. That kingjuly post that everyone agrees with? Just bashes the OP and misses the entire point of my complaint. You know this from 17 minutes of gameplay. From a section that seemed to be largely a tutorial on a difficulty setting that's not supposed to be hard. Marvelous.
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Post by Sharable Horizon on Mar 2, 2017 18:19:12 GMT
People may be more inclined to discuss these things with you, if you didn't ignore everything they said and stopped calling those who disagree with you "hurr durr biodrones!"
Just saying.
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Post by amleth on Mar 2, 2017 18:25:52 GMT
It feels like at least they made an effort with ME3 with distinctive armies, here it's just hordes of mindless samey robots
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2017 18:29:55 GMT
You're extrapolating weak enemy design in the whole game from limited data. To me it isn't, for instance, fair to yell about enemies having just one weak spot when the previous game had enemies with several. So I will say that probably the remnant drones weren't representative of all enemies in the game. True, but we've already seen like 9 (including Fiends and others from past combat demos) enemies. Unless the last 5 enemies we haven't seen yet are much smarter, I think there's already a trend. however, don't remember anything sophisticated about DAI enemies. Care to explain it? The heartbreaker difficulty on DAI multiplayer. Each enemy now has a much bigger moveset (E.g. Mages can now fade cloak, stonefist, dispel your barrier, cast Pull of the Abyss, Archers can now do leaping shot, explosive shot, ...) on top of their basic moveset. They're now much smarter, plus they cooperate together. A mage will put down elemental mines, then cast Pull of the Abyss on top of them to pull you on those. A despair demon will now be able to freeze you, and shades will detonate it. It's much more fun than other difficulties.
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 2, 2017 18:34:49 GMT
Wouldn't it be fair to say then that it's best to come to a conclusion about MEA's enemies after seeing exactly what they can and can't do on higher difficulties? DAI is the perfect example. Basic enemies in the sp campaign are generally pushovers.
Edit: to add, I wouldn't be surprised if the 17 minute video was on the lowest setting, if the player's ability is any indication.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 2, 2017 18:41:27 GMT
Enemy design is indeed disappointing. From their attacks to their AI. None of them look any way near threatening. they just stand there like idiots, like target practice. They don't seem alive or like they are aware of their surroundings. That fiend especially is a sad thing to watch. You seee a big monster and you think alright that's a special enemy, gonna be a fun fight, just to realise that it's specialty is to be the dumbest of them all. It walks in slow motion, unable to reach you in time because its' extremely sad and poor pathfinding is terrible, so it gives up and stands there and probably praying so you put it out of it's misery as you shoot it. While Ryder gets all these cool OP stuff in comparison to Shepard (access of gazilion of skills of all kinds to jet pack that can get you out of danger any time), enemies get dumbed down and look absolutely ridiculous. And don't tell me it was easy difficulty, because we all know AI won't get more intelligent on higher difficulties, they will just get shields, armour, more HP and will deal more damage. This is how whole trilogy worked. AI in ME3, while not perfect, knew how to take cover, knew how to dodge your biotics, knew how to flank, knew how to flush you out of cover with grenades and they didn't look like freaking idiots without a brain. Go play me3 mp on bronze and you'll see AI behaves the same, it's just not so tough and aggressive as on higher difficulty. Their moves, however, are the same, they know how to take cover, keep distance, flank etc. If you were running towards your target to melee them, they didn't stand like an idiot, doing nothing. They fought back. Assault trooper smaked you with shock baton, Marauder, protheans, geth and others elbowed you etc. I'm not saying the game will be bad, I'm just trying to point these things out and say that I agree with OP that concerns are justified. You can't just fix stuff like this with a quick patch. And also top kek for people who say it's not a big deal because combat is not what's Mass effect is all about, while there is combat in majority of missions and pretty good big part of that is combat , which is in most cases unavoidable. If you wanted to advance the story in trilogy, you had to do a lot of combat. It won't be any different now. Also, multiplayer is all about combat. So skip the BS that combat is not important. Yes, it's not the main focus, but it's very important part of the game. And if someone is passionate about it and voices their concerns, you don't get to call them a troll and hater, just because they donn't share the same opinion as you and because you play game for the story. Guess, what? People are different and play the game for different aspects. If story would suck, you bet your ass you would not be happy and would probably want to give your negative feedback to Bioware. Let others do the same. As you read through the thread, it becomes obvious that most posters/biodrones immediately look for a way to shut down any sort of criticism (without discussing about it) then proceed to their usual circle-jerk. The points you've made are good; to reiterate, - Gazilion of gameplay choices/mobility (12 abilities + infinite jet-pack for ridiculous amounts of vertical+horizontal mobility) - yet the enemy design doesn't take that into account. - Enemy AI - what goes on top of the underlying enemy design - is basically complete garbage. The whole enemy package is lackluster. For biodrones reading this, please try to refute this. Protip: you can't. I've yet encountered any valid argument proving my claims to be wrong. The typical "ME3 did it, so MEA doesn't need to improve" has been thrown around so many times I've lost count. If you're really comparing MEA to a game from 2012, which arguably does things even better, then you're a very sad person. I've also seen more of the "gameplay doesn't matter, what matters is the story!" bullshit. That kingjuly post that everyone agrees with? Just bashes the OP and misses the entire point of my complaint. we bio drones (all sarcasm intended) can't refute your logic when you cherry pick the weaker arguments to attack.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 2, 2017 18:42:08 GMT
Wouldn't it be fair to say then that it's best to come to a conclusion about MEA's enemies after seeing exactly what they can and can't do on higher difficulties? DAI is the perfect example. Basic enemies in the sp campaign are generally pushovers. Edit: to add, I wouldn't be surprised if the 17 minute video was on the lowest setting, if the player's ability is any indication. it was on normal.
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Post by TheGodlyFist on Mar 2, 2017 18:56:18 GMT
Enemy design is indeed disappointing. From their attacks to their AI. None of them look any way near threatening. they just stand there like idiots, like target practice. They don't seem alive or like they are aware of their surroundings. That fiend especially is a sad thing to watch. You seee a big monster and you think alright that's a special enemy, gonna be a fun fight, just to realise that it's specialty is to be the dumbest of them all. It walks in slow motion, unable to reach you in time because its' extremely sad and poor pathfinding is terrible, so it gives up and stands there and probably praying so you put it out of it's misery as you shoot it. While Ryder gets all these cool OP stuff in comparison to Shepard (access of gazilion of skills of all kinds to jet pack that can get you out of danger any time), enemies get dumbed down and look absolutely ridiculous. And don't tell me it was easy difficulty, because we all know AI won't get more intelligent on higher difficulties, they will just get shields, armour, more HP and will deal more damage. This is how whole trilogy worked. AI in ME3, while not perfect, knew how to take cover, knew how to dodge your biotics, knew how to flank, knew how to flush you out of cover with grenades and they didn't look like freaking idiots without a brain. Go play me3 mp on bronze and you'll see AI behaves the same, it's just not so tough and aggressive as on higher difficulty. Their moves, however, are the same, they know how to take cover, keep distance, flank etc. If you were running towards your target to melee them, they didn't stand like an idiot, doing nothing. They fought back. Assault trooper smaked you with shock baton, Marauder, protheans, geth and others elbowed you etc. I'm not saying the game will be bad, I'm just trying to point these things out and say that I agree with OP that concerns are justified. You can't just fix stuff like this with a quick patch. And also top kek for people who say it's not a big deal because combat is not what's Mass effect is all about, while there is combat in majority of missions and pretty good big part of that is combat , which is in most cases unavoidable. If you wanted to advance the story in trilogy, you had to do a lot of combat. It won't be any different now. Also, multiplayer is all about combat. So skip the BS that combat is not important. Yes, it's not the main focus, but it's very important part of the game. And if someone is passionate about it and voices their concerns, you don't get to call them a troll and hater, just because they donn't share the same opinion as you and because you play game for the story. Guess, what? People are different and play the game for different aspects. If story would suck, you bet your ass you would not be happy and would probably want to give your negative feedback to Bioware. Let others do the same. As you read through the thread, it becomes obvious that most posters/biodrones immediately look for a way to shut down any sort of criticism (without discussing about it) then proceed to their usual circle-jerk. The points you've made are good; to reiterate, - Gazilion of gameplay choices/mobility (12 abilities + infinite jet-pack for ridiculous amounts of vertical+horizontal mobility) - yet the enemy design doesn't take that into account. - Enemy AI - what goes on top of the underlying enemy design - is basically complete garbage. The whole enemy package is lackluster. For biodrones reading this, please try to refute this. Protip: you can't. I've yet encountered any valid argument proving my claims to be wrong. The typical "ME3 did it, so MEA doesn't need to improve" has been thrown around so many times I've lost count. If you're really comparing MEA to a game from 2012, which arguably does things even better, then you're a very sad person. I've also seen more of the "gameplay doesn't matter, what matters is the story!" bullshit. That kingjuly post that everyone agrees with? Just bashes the OP and misses the entire point of my complaint. You seem to be ignoring all of the people saying that it's not a release build, and the one playing wasn't properly controlling the squad. And the AI is not garbage by any means. It's no Alien from Alien Isolation, but the enemies and your squad seem competent enough to get you through the mission without problems. Your trying to make mountains out of molehills.
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Post by Croatsky on Mar 2, 2017 19:11:53 GMT
Since when is having a standard enemy design a bad thing?
Christ, people demand way too much from games these days. No wonder gamers are not respected by general populace.
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Post by mmoblitz on Mar 2, 2017 19:12:36 GMT
The enemy design isn't a big deal for me. Bioware games, from my perspective, focus on story and relationships first and then the other stuff. If what this game will lack (assuming like most game, this one will have its flaws) is imnportant to a player - then I assume the player wont buy or play this particular game. Bioware games of old, yes. This one, they seem to have put more into the combat. Lets just hope that the story and characters didn't suffer for it. I'm already disliking Peebee. Reminds me too much of Sera. Every time I listen to her it's like nails on a chalkboard.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2017 19:13:41 GMT
You seem to be ignoring all of the people saying that it's not a release build, and the one playing wasn't properly controlling the squad. And the AI is not garbage by any means. It's no Alien from Alien Isolation, but the enemies and your squad seem competent enough to get you through the mission without problems. Your trying to make mountains out of molehills. No, I've already addressed this. The game has already gone gold, any footage we get should reflect that. Beyond the "pre-release footage" watermark, this looks like a recent build. Unless this is 5 months old (which it isn't), there's no way BioWare will patch in a robust enemy/team AI in time for release. It's not something you design in a week. As for the squad, the AI is again complete garbage; team-mates will stand in the open even under heavy-fire and act suicidal unless you tell them not to. Sometimes they won't even fire back. They won't attempt to avoid grenades, or get into cover, or dodge out of the way, use their jetpack strategically, or flank enemies, etc. The only reason why you get through a mission is because you're carrying the entire weight on your shoulders. If this is not the very definition of garbage (worthless) then I don't know what it is. Since when is having a standard enemy design a bad thing? Christ, people demand way too much from games these days. No wonder gamers are not respected by general populace. It always has been.
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Post by Blackheart on Mar 2, 2017 19:25:21 GMT
You seem to be ignoring all of the people saying that it's not a release build, and the one playing wasn't properly controlling the squad. And the AI is not garbage by any means. It's no Alien from Alien Isolation, but the enemies and your squad seem competent enough to get you through the mission without problems. Your trying to make mountains out of molehills. The video was recorded a day or two before game went gold. And I think people mostly have problem with enemy AI rather than squaddie (it's also in the title of the thread). While squaddie AI is ofc also quite bad, but that's not such an issue as is bad enemy AI, which ruins combat experience, because it doesn't provide challenge. Unless you decide to just simply ignore videos that we got so far in order to prove your point, you would clearly realise enemy AI is terrible. On multiple occassion you can see they are confused and don't know how to respond or simply just standing there taking everything you throw at them. It's very very likely that higher difficulty won't change that, because so far in whole trilogy and in almost any other game out there, difference in difficulty is only about damage input and output + maybe agressivness and such. So, AI won't all of sudden learn how to properly take cover and not bounce back and forth over cover like a retard for example. Take another look at the videos, not just the latest one, but every video that shows combat and you will surely see that enemy AI doesn't look anyway near impressive.
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Post by vonuber on Mar 2, 2017 19:28:35 GMT
When did people start playing bioware games for the combat?
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Post by Blackheart on Mar 2, 2017 19:33:39 GMT
When did people start playing bioware games for the combat? Combat covers big part of the game. You don't want to enjoy big part of the game? You only want to enjoy half the game or less?
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vonuber
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January 2017
vonuber
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by vonuber on Mar 2, 2017 19:38:41 GMT
When did people start playing bioware games for the combat? Combat covers big part of the game. You don't want to enjoy big part of the game? You only want to enjoy half the game or less? People still say ME1 is a classic. The combat in that was largely bobbins.
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Blackheart
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blackheart
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Post by Blackheart on Mar 2, 2017 19:43:17 GMT
Combat covers big part of the game. You don't want to enjoy big part of the game? You only want to enjoy half the game or less? People still say ME1 is a classic. The combat in that was largely bobbins. I like ME1 combat the most. It just needed balancing and polishing, not making it into cover shooter. Also, that should not be an excuse. Why wouldn't we wish for better combat? Let's say Bioware makes story and characters good like "it's expected", why wouldn't we wish they improve on other things that needed improving. We're going forward after all, games are advancing, evolving, getting better (well some of them). I don't see why Mass effect couldn't have good combat, since it's a big part of the game.
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KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
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August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 2, 2017 19:43:50 GMT
Combat covers big part of the game. You don't want to enjoy big part of the game? You only want to enjoy half the game or less? People still say ME1 is a classic. The combat in that was largely bobbins. Yeah, there were elements of the combat I actually liked (the ability to suddenly ragdoll a group in front of me!) but the gunplay is crap (I prefer bobbins lol), and all of the guns feel exactly the same and are totally unsatisfying to use. The one and only reason I ever replay it is because of its characters and dialogue. If I could go through more paths that involved less combat I wouldn't hesitate to go that route. In ME2 and 3, I actually cared about my loadout and greatly enjoyed the effects of each weapon. Charging an enemy then spooling up the geth plasma shotgun is a joy.
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colfoley
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Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
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Post by colfoley on Mar 2, 2017 19:52:30 GMT
You know in thinking about this some more the point of any piece of entertainment is to have fun. When i say the gameplay looks like the MET I'm not saying it because i don't want them to improve but because the combat in the MET was fun. ME 3 in particular i still hold up as one of the best combat systems in a game. And the combat systems, in total, look to be even better. Obviously fun varies from person to person and obviously i can't speak for everyone but if the combat is at least as good as it was in ME 3 then I'm going to have fun.
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