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Post by brian on Mar 2, 2017 19:59:12 GMT
I've seen lots of haters and whiners make seemingly good cases about game after game... which rarely end up resonating with my experience.
So I dub thee irrelevant, OP
i remember the ancient days when video games were stored on cassette tapes. So I guess my old man perspective helps keep me from being a spoiled whiny brat like most of you seem to be.
i would love to put you all over my knee.
now get off my lawn
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VanSinn
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: VanSinn77
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Post by VanSinn on Mar 2, 2017 21:07:14 GMT
I would like to say, once again, that people saying that the 17 minute video was recorded only a day or three before the game went gold are misunderstanding something. How large an impact this will have is unknown until we see the finished game, but people need to understand how far behind the development branch of a game a frozen branch can be.
AI can be among the most complex coding pieces of a combat game. Tweaks to this system can very easily lead to unintended consequences (like breaking the logic chain, etc) that can lead to the combat being nigh impossible to play. Quite often, a developer will freeze a solid build of a game a couple of weeks before press release so that there's at least something playable to present. We've heard of over 5000 bugs that were squashed between when the press release was frozen to the time the press actually played the (buggy) release. How many of those related to the combat AI suites is obviously unknowable unless Bioware tells us, but it would not surprise me that quite a few of them had some relation.
I'm fully in agreement with the OP and others with negative opinions on the state of the enemy and squad AI's in the footage we've been shown. How far the press release was behind the development branch in this particular area is unknown, however. It could very well be that the footage we've seen is close to the final build, and if so, I'll be quite disappointed. Not so much so that it will seriously hinder my enjoyment of the game, I play BW games for story and characters, for the most part, but if the enemy and squad AI aren't at least SOMEWHAT improved, ME:A will definitely lose some points in my opinion.
Having said that, though, I think everyone who's upset by what we've seen so far should take a step or two back, take a breath, and see if the final game is any better, either by buying it and trying it (as I probably will) if combat isn't quite as big of a deal for you, or by waiting and seeing what others say before you make the purchase. I believe your concerns are valid, but there has been more time available to fix these issues than people seemingly think there's been.
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Post by vonuber on Mar 2, 2017 21:30:28 GMT
i remember the ancient days when video games were stored on cassette tapes. Ah the joys of having to adjust pitch and the volume to get it to load. Kids don't know they are born nowadays.
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Gray Jedi
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Post by Gray Jedi on Mar 2, 2017 21:33:46 GMT
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glitch89
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I'm sorry. Yes. Energy field good.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ByteHalf
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Post by glitch89 on Mar 3, 2017 0:36:09 GMT
I don't think I can really take you seriously. You haven't posted a single positive thing about this game unless you were called out for being a troll. Its like that's your defence mechanism. Whatever, its not going to diminish my enjoyment of the game so I might as well attempt to put this into perspective. Horizon Zero Dawn tends to have creatures that are designed to (usually) operate alone or in groups of a single type (herds of the same 'animal' so to speak). This means that each type needs to be able to fulfil various criteria in order to keep the player engaged in combat. Dark Souls is a hardcore style game that is almost entirely built on the enemy design. As such, its pretty obvious there's a giant focus on having different enemies capable of different things. Otherwise nobody would really care all that much about the game. Also remember that the game focuses heavily on attack patterns. Bloodborne is pretty much the same as that ^ Mass Effect Andromeda, like previous installments, does not need a single enemy type to fulfil multiple roles nor is the game entirely propped up by its enemy design (among the fact that it isnt designed as a hardcore melee oriented experience). In fact, the enemy design is done in such a way that you get multiple enemies of the roughly same visual appearance (species or such) but with a focus on a specific type of combat (snipers, grenadiers, assault, support, etc). They do this because the idea is that the enemy will fight you as a group and thus will be stronger as a whole rather than as individuals. (granted there are some exceptions when it comes to the tougher enemy types) This promotes the idea of picking your targets, especially on higher difficulties. That isn't bad design. Notice how there are different design philosophies at play here? Each game requiring a different approach? Yeah, so you really shouldn't compare games that are obviously different in their approach. If you want to compare, at least try a bit harder to find a game that more closely resembles the Mass Effect experience. (No, Inquisition does not count because it is not a shooter nor does it rely on any kind of cover mechanic) [Keep in mind that, as the developers have said, difficulty plays into how the AI reacts. We saw the game played on narrative difficulty and on normal difficulty. We haven't seen any of the higher difficulties yet.] Edit: Got a bit salty, removed profanity. Blah blah blah A lovely and flawless explanation if I do say so myself. People are still going to complain. I don't see the enemies being any different then past ME games.
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Post by Blackheart on Mar 3, 2017 12:12:46 GMT
I've seen lots of haters and whiners make seemingly good cases about game after game... which rarely end up resonating with my experience. So I dub thee irrelevant, OP i remember the ancient days when video games were stored on cassette tapes. So I guess my old man perspective helps keep me from being a spoiled whiny brat like most of you seem to be. i would love to put you all over my knee. now get off my lawn Typical "I'm older than you, so I'm automatically right and you should show me respect even if I don't deserve it." attitude. Btw, I also remember cassettes, so what's your point?
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TheGodlyFist
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Post by TheGodlyFist on Mar 3, 2017 12:38:47 GMT
You seem to be ignoring all of the people saying that it's not a release build, and the one playing wasn't properly controlling the squad. And the AI is not garbage by any means. It's no Alien from Alien Isolation, but the enemies and your squad seem competent enough to get you through the mission without problems. Your trying to make mountains out of molehills. The video was recorded a day or two before game went gold. And I think people mostly have problem with enemy AI rather than squaddie (it's also in the title of the thread). While squaddie AI is ofc also quite bad, but that's not such an issue as is bad enemy AI, which ruins combat experience, because it doesn't provide challenge. Unless you decide to just simply ignore videos that we got so far in order to prove your point, you would clearly realise enemy AI is terrible. On multiple occassion you can see they are confused and don't know how to respond or simply just standing there taking everything you throw at them. It's very very likely that higher difficulty won't change that, because so far in whole trilogy and in almost any other game out there, difference in difficulty is only about damage input and output + maybe agressivness and such. So, AI won't all of sudden learn how to properly take cover and not bounce back and forth over cover like a retard for example. Take another look at the videos, not just the latest one, but every video that shows combat and you will surely see that enemy AI doesn't look anyway near impressive. I don't know what you guys were doing for the 17 minutes of the video, but if all you were doing was watching your squad I think you need to straighten your priorities. I doubt that even if they shipped it with this "broken AI" you would hardly notice as you would have to go out of your way to do so. The saddest part is that I know that everyone complaining on this thread will buy the game and play it to completion anyways. So if this criticism isn't enough to stop you from buying the game then I don't think it's important enough to rant about.
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Post by Blackheart on Mar 3, 2017 12:54:12 GMT
The video was recorded a day or two before game went gold. And I think people mostly have problem with enemy AI rather than squaddie (it's also in the title of the thread). While squaddie AI is ofc also quite bad, but that's not such an issue as is bad enemy AI, which ruins combat experience, because it doesn't provide challenge. Unless you decide to just simply ignore videos that we got so far in order to prove your point, you would clearly realise enemy AI is terrible. On multiple occassion you can see they are confused and don't know how to respond or simply just standing there taking everything you throw at them. It's very very likely that higher difficulty won't change that, because so far in whole trilogy and in almost any other game out there, difference in difficulty is only about damage input and output + maybe agressivness and such. So, AI won't all of sudden learn how to properly take cover and not bounce back and forth over cover like a retard for example. Take another look at the videos, not just the latest one, but every video that shows combat and you will surely see that enemy AI doesn't look anyway near impressive. I don't know what you guys were doing for the 17 minutes of the video, but if all you were doing was watching your squad I think you need to straighten your priorities. I doubt that even if they shipped it with this "broken AI" you would hardly notice as you would have to go out of your way to do so. The saddest part is that I know that everyone complaining on this thread will buy the game and play it to completion anyways. So if this criticism isn't enough to stop you from buying the game then I don't think it's important enough to rant about. Is this how you make arguments, by assuming bunch of things? First, what I was doing for 17min? Um, watching the video and spoting things I like and things I don't like. This topic is about bad enemy AI, so I put my opinion on it, since I agree with OP in this aspect. Doesn't mean I haven't seen other things in the video. Sorry, your assumption failed. Second, I wouldn't notice if there is a bad AI? Do you even understand how ridiculous that sounds? And third, again you assume I will buy a game, which is quite an overrated assumption that I keep seeing. It's quite hilarious indeed. First of all, I never preorder games, so I'm going to wait till release. I will check youtube videos and decide if the game is worth buying. If other missions will have cheesy, cringy dialogue as well, if AI will not be fixed and will act the way we have seen so far, and bunch of other things, then I'm not going to buy the game, sorry. I don't know why is it so hard to accept the fact that we all have our preferences, expectations and opinions. I'm not goning to pay 60 bucks for something that in the most part I wouldn't enjoy. So, any more baseless assumptions from you?
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Post by TheGodlyFist on Mar 3, 2017 13:22:07 GMT
I don't know what you guys were doing for the 17 minutes of the video, but if all you were doing was watching your squad I think you need to straighten your priorities. I doubt that even if they shipped it with this "broken AI" you would hardly notice as you would have to go out of your way to do so. The saddest part is that I know that everyone complaining on this thread will buy the game and play it to completion anyways. So if this criticism isn't enough to stop you from buying the game then I don't think it's important enough to rant about. Is this how you make arguments, by assuming bunch of things? First, what I was doing for 17min? Um, watching the video and spoting things I like and things I don't like. This topic is about bad enemy AI, so I put my opinion on it, since I agree with OP in this aspect. Doesn't mean I haven't seen other things in the video. Sorry, your assumption failed. Second, I wouldn't notice if there is a bad AI? Do you even understand how ridiculous that sounds? And third, again you assume I will buy a game, which is quite an overrated assumption that I keep seeing. It's quite hilarious indeed. First of all, I never preorder games, so I'm going to wait till release. I will check youtube videos and decide if the game is worth buying. If other missions will have cheesy, cringy dialogue as well, if AI will not be fixed and will act the way we have seen so far, and bunch of other things, then I'm not going to buy the game, sorry. I don't know why is it so hard to accept the fact that we all have our preferences, expectations and opinions. I'm not goning to pay 60 bucks for something that in the most part I wouldn't enjoy. So, any more baseless assumptions from you? Coming from the one assuming this is the release product of MEA and that no tampering of the game was made for the purpose of advertising. I do know you will buy the game, everyone on these forums will buy the game so get off the pedestal. And no... no normal person when playing the game will purposely sit there and stare at the AI not playing it. The one complaint you have you are blowing way out of proportion acting like it is Total War: Rome II or something. Finally, you seem to have the thought in your head that opinions can't be wrong, which they can. If 17 minutes of not the final product will discourage you from buying the game then fine, have fun playing nothing then.
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Post by Blackheart on Mar 3, 2017 14:37:04 GMT
Is this how you make arguments, by assuming bunch of things? First, what I was doing for 17min? Um, watching the video and spoting things I like and things I don't like. This topic is about bad enemy AI, so I put my opinion on it, since I agree with OP in this aspect. Doesn't mean I haven't seen other things in the video. Sorry, your assumption failed. Second, I wouldn't notice if there is a bad AI? Do you even understand how ridiculous that sounds? And third, again you assume I will buy a game, which is quite an overrated assumption that I keep seeing. It's quite hilarious indeed. First of all, I never preorder games, so I'm going to wait till release. I will check youtube videos and decide if the game is worth buying. If other missions will have cheesy, cringy dialogue as well, if AI will not be fixed and will act the way we have seen so far, and bunch of other things, then I'm not going to buy the game, sorry. I don't know why is it so hard to accept the fact that we all have our preferences, expectations and opinions. I'm not goning to pay 60 bucks for something that in the most part I wouldn't enjoy. So, any more baseless assumptions from you? Coming from the one assuming this is the release product of MEA and that no tampering of the game was made for the purpose of advertising. I do know you will buy the game, everyone on these forums will buy the game so get off the pedestal. And no... no normal person when playing the game will purposely sit there and stare at the AI not playing it. The one complaint you have you are blowing way out of proportion acting like it is Total War: Rome II or something. Finally, you seem to have the thought in your head that opinions can't be wrong, which they can. If 17 minutes of not the final product will discourage you from buying the game then fine, have fun playing nothing then. You're desperate. Just because you keep saying same things, doesn't mean they gonna suddenly become true. But go ahead and believe what you want and make over the top arguments. Like you have to stare at AI to see if it's good or not. Oh my god, this is just... mind blowing. If you run towards the enemy to melee him and he doesn't do anything but stand there and wait to get wrecked, that doesn't require one to stand still, focus and observe AI for a minute to come to that conclusion. (I guess your slow brain needs it). There are videos, not just one, but multiple, that prove the point, but you still refuse to acknowledge that. That was just ONE example, I could find plenty. Unfortunately, people like you are such ridiculous fanboys that you are unable to seperate a hater from critic. We're not just babbling and saying random shit, we are basing our feedback on something that can be proven. At no point I said game is gonna suck. I was just expressing my feedback to the videos we've seen so far and gave my concerns. People can make positive assumption and comments before game comes out, but they are not allowed to make negative ones? Yes, videos are marketing and their exact purpose is to provide viewers with soemthing on which they can make their judgments on and decide for themselves if game is worth it or not. What elese would be purpose for these videos? Bioware was bored and decided to spend resources to make videos? And, no I am not assuming that this is a release product. This is something you pulled out of your ass to prove your point. I know that it's not a release product, but the video was recorded a day or two before game went gold. Are you saying Bioware will rewrite the whole AI script to fix this? And Like I said already, it's a smll chance that higher difficulty would change AI aside from them having more health and damage. Now, tell me something and be honest: Have you ever watched a trailer for a movie, didn't like it, so you decided you won't go see a movie, because it doesn't look good froma trailer? If your answer is yes, then you just fucked your whole argument. Can't believe you thought you would make such a good argument by ignoring all my previous posts, start assuming things and defend poor AI by "hey, you can barely notice it, so it's not a big deal". Hilarious really.
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TheGodlyFist
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Post by TheGodlyFist on Mar 3, 2017 15:51:08 GMT
Coming from the one assuming this is the release product of MEA and that no tampering of the game was made for the purpose of advertising. I do know you will buy the game, everyone on these forums will buy the game so get off the pedestal. And no... no normal person when playing the game will purposely sit there and stare at the AI not playing it. The one complaint you have you are blowing way out of proportion acting like it is Total War: Rome II or something. Finally, you seem to have the thought in your head that opinions can't be wrong, which they can. If 17 minutes of not the final product will discourage you from buying the game then fine, have fun playing nothing then. You're desperate. Just because you keep saying same things, doesn't mean they gonna suddenly become true. But go ahead and believe what you want and make over the top arguments. Like you have to stare at AI to see if it's good or not. Oh my god, this is just... mind blowing. If you run towards the enemy to melee him and he doesn't do anything but stand there and wait to get wrecked, that doesn't require one to stand still, focus and observe AI for a minute to come to that conclusion. (I guess your slow brain needs it). There are videos, not just one, but multiple, that prove the point, but you still refuse to acknowledge that. That was just ONE example, I could find plenty. Unfortunately, people like you are such ridiculous fanboys that you are unable to seperate a hater from critic. We're not just babbling and saying random shit, we are basing our feedback on something that can be proven. At no point I said game is gonna suck. I was just expressing my feedback to the videos we've seen so far and gave my concerns. People can make positive assumption and comments before game comes out, but they are not allowed to make negative ones? Yes, videos are marketing and their exact purpose is to provide viewers with soemthing on which they can make their judgments on and decide for themselves if game is worth it or not. What elese would be purpose for these videos? Bioware was bored and decided to spend resources to make videos? And, no I am not assuming that this is a release product. This is something you pulled out of your ass to prove your point. I know that it's not a release product, but the video was recorded a day or two before game went gold. Are you saying Bioware will rewrite the whole AI script to fix this? And Like I said already, it's a smll chance that higher difficulty would change AI aside from them having more health and damage. Now, tell me something and be honest: Have you ever watched a trailer for a movie, didn't like it, so you decided you won't go see a movie, because it doesn't look good froma trailer? If your answer is yes, then you just fucked your whole argument. Can't believe you thought you would make such a good argument by ignoring all my previous posts, start assuming things and defend poor AI by "hey, you can barely notice it, so it's not a big deal". Hilarious really. Are you done? As much as my faith in humanity loves to be tested against people who complain about things and bring no compromises to any problems, or who speaks of allowing others to voice their mind but not doing it themselves I think it will simply ignore your attempt to derail the work of a talented team of people for a dedicated fan base. If you truly won't buy the game because of a couple nit picks on a few videos that are otherwise examples of a quality game then fine. Nobody loses anything from you missing out on a good experience.
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Post by Blackheart on Mar 3, 2017 16:50:19 GMT
You're desperate. Just because you keep saying same things, doesn't mean they gonna suddenly become true. But go ahead and believe what you want and make over the top arguments. Like you have to stare at AI to see if it's good or not. Oh my god, this is just... mind blowing. If you run towards the enemy to melee him and he doesn't do anything but stand there and wait to get wrecked, that doesn't require one to stand still, focus and observe AI for a minute to come to that conclusion. (I guess your slow brain needs it). There are videos, not just one, but multiple, that prove the point, but you still refuse to acknowledge that. That was just ONE example, I could find plenty. Unfortunately, people like you are such ridiculous fanboys that you are unable to seperate a hater from critic. We're not just babbling and saying random shit, we are basing our feedback on something that can be proven. At no point I said game is gonna suck. I was just expressing my feedback to the videos we've seen so far and gave my concerns. People can make positive assumption and comments before game comes out, but they are not allowed to make negative ones? Yes, videos are marketing and their exact purpose is to provide viewers with soemthing on which they can make their judgments on and decide for themselves if game is worth it or not. What elese would be purpose for these videos? Bioware was bored and decided to spend resources to make videos? And, no I am not assuming that this is a release product. This is something you pulled out of your ass to prove your point. I know that it's not a release product, but the video was recorded a day or two before game went gold. Are you saying Bioware will rewrite the whole AI script to fix this? And Like I said already, it's a smll chance that higher difficulty would change AI aside from them having more health and damage. Now, tell me something and be honest: Have you ever watched a trailer for a movie, didn't like it, so you decided you won't go see a movie, because it doesn't look good froma trailer? If your answer is yes, then you just fucked your whole argument. Can't believe you thought you would make such a good argument by ignoring all my previous posts, start assuming things and defend poor AI by "hey, you can barely notice it, so it's not a big deal". Hilarious really. Are you done? As much as my faith in humanity loves to be tested against people who complain about things and bring no compromises to any problems, or who speaks of allowing others to voice their mind but not doing it themselves I think it will simply ignore your attempt to derail the work of a talented team of people for a dedicated fan base. If you truly won't buy the game because of a couple nit picks on a few videos that are otherwise examples of a quality game then fine. Nobody loses anything from you missing out on a good experience. LOL. I allow everyone to give their opinion. You are the one that can't accept the critic I gave for this game, so you decided to try to defend it by ignoring the facts and start making assumptions and making things up. I only replied to correct you on your BS and provide you with facts, so you could see i'm not typing BS and hating, I'm just giving my honest opinion, which happens to be negative in this aspect of the game. I'm fully happy to be proven wrong by Bioware. I'm also happy to hear what others think of the topic. But if someone tries to label me as hater or assume things about me, just to prove their point, because they can't stand someone having bad opinion about the game, then I will call them out on their BS. You are either super ignorant or you have seriously poor reading comprehension skills. I'm derailing work of talented team, because I gave a negative feedback on enemy AI? You are unbelievable. Couple of nit picks? Again, your reading skills failed you. Combat is not nit picking, it's a huge part of game. You fight in almost everye missions, you fight when you explore etc. Dialogue as well, it effects whole game. If it will be as bad as in 17 min video, it can ruin the whole game for some. Why do you I have to repeat myself, because you keep ignoring what I said or turn what I said into something else. So basically, if we sum up our convo: I gave an honest feedback on what I think of enemy AI so far and you took that like I said that whole game is a failure and everyonething is bad about this game, it's gonna suck and no one should play it. That's how you act. And your assumptions. You don't even know what I think about the rest of the game. Maybe I like a lot of things about the game. Maybe I just don't like combat and dialouge and I decided to put feedback on this because I'm concerned fan. But no, let's make assumptions and start making shit up to wreck all the ney sayers without knowing thing about them. I suggest you stop replying and save yourself from further embarrasment.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: mmoblitz
PSN: NotPC
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Post by mmoblitz on Mar 3, 2017 19:14:59 GMT
When did people start playing bioware games for the combat? Since they started catering to that crowd starting with DAI. They should put more of the emphasis on story and characters, but it looks like more has gone into the combat this time around. Lets hope it's not at the expense of story and character. Though, I'm not very optimistic from what I have seen so far.
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Post by TheGodlyFist on Mar 6, 2017 13:19:23 GMT
Are you done? As much as my faith in humanity loves to be tested against people who complain about things and bring no compromises to any problems, or who speaks of allowing others to voice their mind but not doing it themselves I think it will simply ignore your attempt to derail the work of a talented team of people for a dedicated fan base. If you truly won't buy the game because of a couple nit picks on a few videos that are otherwise examples of a quality game then fine. Nobody loses anything from you missing out on a good experience. LOL. I allow everyone to give their opinion. You are the one that can't accept the critic I gave for this game, so you decided to try to defend it by ignoring the facts and start making assumptions and making things up. I only replied to correct you on your BS and provide you with facts, so you could see i'm not typing BS and hating, I'm just giving my honest opinion, which happens to be negative in this aspect of the game. I'm fully happy to be proven wrong by Bioware. I'm also happy to hear what others think of the topic. But if someone tries to label me as hater or assume things about me, just to prove their point, because they can't stand someone having bad opinion about the game, then I will call them out on their BS. You are either super ignorant or you have seriously poor reading comprehension skills. I'm derailing work of talented team, because I gave a negative feedback on enemy AI? You are unbelievable. Couple of nit picks? Again, your reading skills failed you. Combat is not nit picking, it's a huge part of game. You fight in almost everye missions, you fight when you explore etc. Dialogue as well, it effects whole game. If it will be as bad as in 17 min video, it can ruin the whole game for some. Why do you I have to repeat myself, because you keep ignoring what I said or turn what I said into something else. So basically, if we sum up our convo: I gave an honest feedback on what I think of enemy AI so far and you took that like I said that whole game is a failure and everyonething is bad about this game, it's gonna suck and no one should play it. That's how you act. And your assumptions. You don't even know what I think about the rest of the game. Maybe I like a lot of things about the game. Maybe I just don't like combat and dialouge and I decided to put feedback on this because I'm concerned fan. But no, let's make assumptions and start making shit up to wreck all the ney sayers without knowing thing about them. I suggest you stop replying and save yourself from further embarrasment. You are an entitled little cuss aren't you? You seem to believe that every word that comes out of your mouth is true, stop acting like people can't go up and read what you said. These "assumptions", which is a word you seem to like a lot, are simply my repeating what it is you said. Your "facts" are nothing more than conjecture based on nothing of substance. When you see something deserving of complaint, then you can. But they have shown nothing but a quality game in their trailers, so complaining about nothing is pointless. Edit: You also don't seem to know how arguememts work. These don't end or are "won" when you say. They are decided individually by the observers, so you can keep your suggestions to yourself.
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Post by SalMasRac on Mar 6, 2017 13:24:11 GMT
I don't know what you guys were doing for the 17 minutes of the video, but if all you were doing was watching your squad I think you need to straighten your priorities. I doubt that even if they shipped it with this "broken AI" you would hardly notice as you would have to go out of your way to do so. The saddest part is that I know that everyone complaining on this thread will buy the game and play it to completion anyways. So if this criticism isn't enough to stop you from buying the game then I don't think it's important enough to rant about. Is this how you make arguments, by assuming bunch of things? First, what I was doing for 17min? Um, watching the video and spoting things I like and things I don't like. This topic is about bad enemy AI, so I put my opinion on it, since I agree with OP in this aspect. Doesn't mean I haven't seen other things in the video. Sorry, your assumption failed. Second, I wouldn't notice if there is a bad AI? Do you even understand how ridiculous that sounds?And third, again you assume I will buy a game, which is quite an overrated assumption that I keep seeing. It's quite hilarious indeed. First of all, I never preorder games, so I'm going to wait till release. I will check youtube videos and decide if the game is worth buying. If other missions will have cheesy, cringy dialogue as well, if AI will not be fixed and will act the way we have seen so far, and bunch of other things, then I'm not going to buy the game, sorry. I don't know why is it so hard to accept the fact that we all have our preferences, expectations and opinions. I'm not goning to pay 60 bucks for something that in the most part I wouldn't enjoy. So, any more baseless assumptions from you? For a player to not notice bad AI, means that the player is equally as bad. Judging from most ME3MP pugs, I'd say the AI is actually better than most players.
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Post by bryanky5 on Mar 6, 2017 13:26:27 GMT
Is this how you make arguments, by assuming bunch of things? First, what I was doing for 17min? Um, watching the video and spoting things I like and things I don't like. This topic is about bad enemy AI, so I put my opinion on it, since I agree with OP in this aspect. Doesn't mean I haven't seen other things in the video. Sorry, your assumption failed. Second, I wouldn't notice if there is a bad AI? Do you even understand how ridiculous that sounds?And third, again you assume I will buy a game, which is quite an overrated assumption that I keep seeing. It's quite hilarious indeed. First of all, I never preorder games, so I'm going to wait till release. I will check youtube videos and decide if the game is worth buying. If other missions will have cheesy, cringy dialogue as well, if AI will not be fixed and will act the way we have seen so far, and bunch of other things, then I'm not going to buy the game, sorry. I don't know why is it so hard to accept the fact that we all have our preferences, expectations and opinions. I'm not goning to pay 60 bucks for something that in the most part I wouldn't enjoy. So, any more baseless assumptions from you? For a player to not notice bad AI, means that the player is equally as bad.Judging from most ME3MP pugs, I'd say the AI is actually better than most players. I'll have you know I take that as a personal insult.
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Post by SalMasRac on Mar 6, 2017 13:41:16 GMT
For a player to not notice bad AI, means that the player is equally as bad.Judging from most ME3MP pugs, I'd say the AI is actually better than most players. I'll have you know I take that as a personal insult.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Mar 6, 2017 14:58:01 GMT
I've seen lots of haters and whiners make seemingly good cases about game after game... which rarely end up resonating with my experience. So I dub thee irrelevant, OP i remember the ancient days when video games were stored on cassette tapes. So I guess my old man perspective helps keep me from being a spoiled whiny brat like most of you seem to be. i would love to put you all over my knee. now get off my lawn "So self-absorbed and egotistical. It's like these hip musicians with their complicated shoes!" - George Costanza
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Post by Blackheart on Mar 6, 2017 16:13:55 GMT
LOL. I allow everyone to give their opinion. You are the one that can't accept the critic I gave for this game, so you decided to try to defend it by ignoring the facts and start making assumptions and making things up. I only replied to correct you on your BS and provide you with facts, so you could see i'm not typing BS and hating, I'm just giving my honest opinion, which happens to be negative in this aspect of the game. I'm fully happy to be proven wrong by Bioware. I'm also happy to hear what others think of the topic. But if someone tries to label me as hater or assume things about me, just to prove their point, because they can't stand someone having bad opinion about the game, then I will call them out on their BS. You are either super ignorant or you have seriously poor reading comprehension skills. I'm derailing work of talented team, because I gave a negative feedback on enemy AI? You are unbelievable. Couple of nit picks? Again, your reading skills failed you. Combat is not nit picking, it's a huge part of game. You fight in almost everye missions, you fight when you explore etc. Dialogue as well, it effects whole game. If it will be as bad as in 17 min video, it can ruin the whole game for some. Why do you I have to repeat myself, because you keep ignoring what I said or turn what I said into something else. So basically, if we sum up our convo: I gave an honest feedback on what I think of enemy AI so far and you took that like I said that whole game is a failure and everyonething is bad about this game, it's gonna suck and no one should play it. That's how you act. And your assumptions. You don't even know what I think about the rest of the game. Maybe I like a lot of things about the game. Maybe I just don't like combat and dialouge and I decided to put feedback on this because I'm concerned fan. But no, let's make assumptions and start making shit up to wreck all the ney sayers without knowing thing about them. I suggest you stop replying and save yourself from further embarrasment. You are an entitled little cuss aren't you? You seem to believe that every word that comes out of your mouth is true, stop acting like people can't go up and read what you said. These "assumptions", which is a word you seem to like a lot, are simply my repeating what it is you said. Your "facts" are nothing more than conjecture based on nothing of substance. When you see something deserving of complaint, then you can. But they have shown nothing but a quality game in their trailers, so complaining about nothing is pointless. Edit: You also don't seem to know how arguememts work. These don't end or are "won" when you say. They are decided individually by the observers, so you can keep your suggestions to yourself. "Wahhhh wahhhh, someone has a complaint about the game I love, wahhhhh." Stop crying like a bitch and start making sense. If you want a discussion, you will have to read and understand my points not just babble about whatever you feel like. "You seem to believe that every word that comes out of your mouth is true" No, I don't. I gave my honest opinion on what I think about AI. It is backed by videos and by common sense if you have played previous mass effects and if you watched Andromeda videos. Everything I described, you can clearly see. For example: you can clearly see that fiend is standing still on multiple occasions and not being agressive towards player. You can clearly see he's struggling with pathfinding when he goes back and forth. Same applies for enemy around cover. Those are just few examples. If you decide to ignore these, then I dont' know what to tell you man, you clearly are denying proof in order to prove your point. How much of a harder evidence can one give you? If your opinion is that it's not a big deal for you, you are ok with AI, that's perfectly fine, but don't insult opinion of others who don't think the same. Your arguing here is like arguing that various difficulties of different games. Some people are ok with normal difficulty, others are not, they want more. What's wrong with that? "stop acting like people can't go up and read what you said." I most definetly hope they will, so they can see how butthurt you are. "Your "facts" are nothing more than conjecture based on nothing of substance." Perfect example how you absolutely ignore whatever I say in order to prove your point. My facts are backed by the videos like I already mentioned above. If you choose to ignore proof, that's your problem. "When you see something deserving of complaint, then you can." So what is deserving of complaint? Only the things that you feel bad about? I can only complain about same things as you, because otherwise I'm a troll, hater, entitled etc? Besides you're such a blind fanboy that you probably wouldn't complain even if they sold you bag of dicks. "But they have shown nothing but a quality game in their trailers" This is as subjective as it can get. And since we are all human, we have different opinions and preferences. The fact that you can't accept idea that someone else doesn't like same thing that you like and that you're ready to insult and attack them for it is proving that you are huge ignorant moron. And since I can already predict that you're going to reply with "You just did the same, you don't accept others opinion", because that's all you do, I will answer you in advance: I accept others opinion. Just because I reply to you to correct you, doesn't mean I can't accept other opinions. I'm not correcting you on your opinion, I'm correcting you on BS you say that doesn't make sense, just like I'm doing now. I never went to other positive topics to start talking shit about someone, like you do. If I put a comment, I am writing on topic and giving my opinion about what topic is about. I never quote a person who is happy and writes good things about andromeda and say to them "you're wrong, the game sucks, your opinion is wrong blah blah" I never did that. Quote me on it, if you can, if you feel otherwise. I also put quite a few positive posts on the forum here. There are things I like about the game and things I don't like about it. So why can't I write what's the thing I don't like and why I don't like it? Because morons like you get triggered? For the extra facepalm, answer the next question that you previously so conveniently avoided. I'm going to spice it up some more. Here goes: Have you ever gave a negative feedback, opinion or comment about the game or a movie in any shape of form (by text, by voice or any other means)? Also: Have you ever watched a game or movie trailer and decided to not see a movie or not buy a game based on what you have seen, or that you will wait for reviews? We all know the answer to these questions, which obviously wrecks your whole argument.
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Post by TheGodlyFist on Mar 6, 2017 19:24:28 GMT
You are an entitled little cuss aren't you? You seem to believe that every word that comes out of your mouth is true, stop acting like people can't go up and read what you said. These "assumptions", which is a word you seem to like a lot, are simply my repeating what it is you said. Your "facts" are nothing more than conjecture based on nothing of substance. When you see something deserving of complaint, then you can. But they have shown nothing but a quality game in their trailers, so complaining about nothing is pointless. Edit: You also don't seem to know how arguememts work. These don't end or are "won" when you say. They are decided individually by the observers, so you can keep your suggestions to yourself. "Wahhhh wahhhh, someone has a complaint about the game I love, wahhhhh." Stop crying like a bitch and start making sense. If you want a discussion, you will have to read and understand my points not just babble about whatever you feel like. You seem to be the only one "crying", although that's not the word I'd use. I've been being civil this entire discussion, but your the one making personal attacks and have been taking it to divisive levels. "You seem to believe that every word that comes out of your mouth is true" No, I don't. I gave my honest opinion on what I think about AI. It is backed by videos and by common sense if you have played previous mass effects and if you watched Andromeda videos. Everything I described, you can clearly see. For example: you can clearly see that fiend is standing still on multiple occasions and not being agressive towards player. You can clearly see he's struggling with pathfinding when he goes back and forth. Same applies for enemy around cover. Those are just few examples. If you decide to ignore these, then I dont' know what to tell you man, you clearly are denying proof in order to prove your point. How much of a harder evidence can one give you? If your opinion is that it's not a big deal for you, you are ok with AI, that's perfectly fine, but don't insult opinion of others who don't think the same. Your arguing here is like arguing that various difficulties of different games. Some people are ok with normal difficulty, others are not, they want more. What's wrong with that? Your evidence isn't hard though, unless you have the game and are willing to post some footage of it then it's not the final version and doesn't relate to what we'll see on release."stop acting like people can't go up and read what you said." I most definetly hope they will, so they can see how butthurt you are. Like I said before, you are the only one taking it to the extreme and seem to be the only one offended."Your "facts" are nothing more than conjecture based on nothing of substance." Perfect example how you absolutely ignore whatever I say in order to prove your point. My facts are backed by the videos like I already mentioned above. If you choose to ignore proof, that's your problem. Except those videos aren't enough, they aren't the final game and what was shown wasn't even that bad. You... are... blowing... them...out... of ...proportion."When you see something deserving of complaint, then you can." So what is deserving of complaint? Only the things that you feel bad about? I can only complain about same things as you, because otherwise I'm a troll, hater, entitled etc? Besides you're such a blind fanboy that you probably wouldn't complain even if they sold you bag of dicks. Something that is actually game breaking or even noticeable would be complaint worthy. Not the nitpicks that can be taken from these videos. "But they have shown nothing but a quality game in their trailers" This is as subjective as it can get. And since we are all human, we have different opinions and preferences. The fact that you can't accept idea that someone else doesn't like same thing that you like and that you're ready to insult and attack them for it is proving that you are huge ignorant moron. You're the only one who has thrown insults.And since I can already predict that you're going to reply with "You just did the same, you don't accept others opinion", because that's all you do, I will answer you in advance: I accept others opinion. Just because I reply to you to correct you, doesn't mean I can't accept other opinions. I'm not correcting you on your opinion, I'm correcting you on BS you say that doesn't make sense, just like I'm doing now. I never went to other positive topics to start talking shit about someone, like you do. If I put a comment, I am writing on topic and giving my opinion about what topic is about. I never quote a person who is happy and writes good things about andromeda and say to them "you're wrong, the game sucks, your opinion is wrong blah blah" I never did that. Quote me on it, if you can, if you feel otherwise. I also put quite a few positive posts on the forum here. There are things I like about the game and things I don't like about it. So why can't I write what's the thing I don't like and why I don't like it? Because morons like you get triggered? Because you not being reasonable the moment I tried to argue for the game, you immediately went off for no good reason, even though nothing I said was directly pointed towards you. Then you continued to degrade this argument.
Me You For the extra facepalm, answer the next question that you previously so conveniently avoided. I'm going to spice it up some more. Here goes: Have you ever gave a negative feedback, opinion or comment about the game or a movie in any shape of form (by text, by voice or any other means)? YesAlso: Have you ever watched a game or movie trailer and decided to not see a movie or not buy a game based on what you have seen, or that you will wait for reviews? YesWe all know the answer to these questions, which obviously wrecks your whole argument. This doesn't "wreck" anything. The basis of my argument was that the evidence that you used for your side wasn't solid enough.You need to start being more civil and not taking things you read on the internet so seriously. I will take the high ground here and say I'm sorry if I was too crude in my argument and didn't mean to offend anybody. But this shade-throwing is childish.
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Post by Blackheart on Mar 6, 2017 20:40:37 GMT
"You need to start being more civil and not taking things you read on the internet so seriously. I will take the high ground here and say I'm sorry if I was too crude in my argument and didn't mean to offend anybody. But this shade-throwing is childish." Coming from a guy who couldn't accept the fact that someonone else doesn't share you opinion on enemy AI, so decides to call him entitled, hater and whatnot. But, sure, I'm all for civil discussion. "Because you not being reasonable the moment I tried to argue for the game, you immediately went off for no good reason, even though nothing I said was directly pointed towards you. Then you continued to degrade this argument." You didn't quote me directly, but you were obviously adressing everyone who said bad things on enemy AI, which includes me. Do I have to pm everyone in this topic, so we gather together as a group to reply to you? You adressed a group of people, which I am a part of, so I replied. I don't know why you think I'm not allowed to comment on your post. "Except those videos aren't enough, they aren't the final game and what was shown wasn't even that bad. You... are... blowing... them...out... of ...proportion." Just because you say so, they are not enough? They are certainly enough for us to discuss. What the hell is the puprose of these forums if not discuss? Go tell those people over there who complain about the story and about Andromeda Initiative program, before playing the game. And we all know how nit picky can people get over the story in Bioware games. Bioware is putting out videos not because they are bored, but because it's marketing and because potential customers need something to judge the game on, so they can justify spending 60 bucks in advance. Also, you won't hear any developer saying: We don't want our fans to discuss our videos. They most certainly are happy for fans to be so involved and compassionate about the game and want to discuss their work and give feedback. If the goal of these videos was not for customers to judge them, then there would be no marketing, because it would make no sense. Why watch the video if I'm gonna buy stuff while not knowing a single thing about it? Idk under what rock you're living under, but people tend to check out most of the products before they buy, especially if it's costly. 60 bucks is quite some money. Your idea that we shouldn't judge the game before release is nonsense. Who will buy a product, if they can't get some info on it first? And who the hell will buy a product if the info they get doesn't convince them it's worth buying? And don't start with "it's clearly a quality product" again. You should know this is purely subjective and there is no point debating that. It's my money and I will decide what is worth my money and what the fuck I like and don't like. "Something that is actually game breaking or even noticeable would be complaint worthy. Not the nitpicks that can be taken from these videos." Idk how many more times I will have to say this to you, but here I'll try 5x: Combat is not nitpicking. Combat is not nitpicking. Combat is not nitpicking. Combat is not nitpicking. Combat is not nitpicking. Got it? If you don't care about combat, that's ok, it might be nit picking for you, but for others is not. Combat is a large part of the game. If enemy has bad AI and doesn't provide you with challenge, it makes whole combat not fun. (again, for some people) What is good story good for, if it has plot holes? What is a large team of squaddmates good for, if they are shallow characters and are boring? What is a huge map good for if it's empty etc etc (and before you get triggered, I'm not saying andromeda will have these issues, I just wanted to make examples. That's how it works with combat and AI. "This doesn't "wreck" anything. The basis of my argument was that the evidence that you used for your side wasn't solid enough." It's a fucking video, one of the most reliable sources for proof. What the hell man? Like I already said in one of my posts, I'm happy to be proven wrong by Bioware, until then, AI looks ridiculous and I explained why in details. If you fancy retarded AI that can't decide if they should attack you or not, great for you, but I don't. There are MULTIPLE videos of Andromeda showing this off. There are millions of videos and you can even experience it yourself that shows ME3 combat, so you can make comparisons like I did and what I mentioned about ME3. I compared melee. In ME3 if you were running towards a target to melee it, it wasn't free kill, most enemies fought back, they used melee too (geth, cerberus, reapers). In Andromeda, we see on MULTIPLE occasions that player run straight towards enemy and kill it and enemy did nothing, in some cases didn't even fight back at all! You call this not solid enough? There can't be any more clear proof. That is just one tiny example of enemy AI. Do you really expect Bioware to rewrite the whole AI script in few days to fix this problem? And for the hundreth time, because I know you need it, AI behaviour will very likely not change on higher difficulty. They will just get stat boosts and maybe get more aggressive. They won't sudennly learn how to properly dodge (did you see any dodging from ranged attacks btw, like they did in ME3!), how to properly take cover and not bounce back and forth, how to melee etc.. "You're the only one who has thrown insults." From a guy who called me entitled little cuss. Ok. EDIT: If you want to be civil, you will have to learn to respect opinions of others. I only reply to you and argue points where you are trying to say that I am unreasonable to have an opinion that I have (about enemy AI) or that there is no real proof or that AI is not bad or whatever. I'm arguing that and trying to prove my point. I'm certainly not shitting on your opinion. Like I said few times already, I'm fine with you thinking AI is no problem FOR YOU, but I'm not fine when you're trying to say AI is not problem FOR ME.
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Post by danishgambit on Mar 7, 2017 1:46:02 GMT
It seems too early to tell and I can't really agree that this is bad. Even if we assume that the enemies have one basic attack that isn't an indicator of "bad design" at all. They could simply be designed to work together to create challenges rather than be tanky and have a bunch of different abilities. And from what little we saw the player never seemed to run into only one kind of enemy. I figured this was their way of ensuring that vanguards couldn't simply smash/nova everything and that snipers couldn't just stay back and pew pew all the time.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2017 23:30:37 GMT
close enough?
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