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Post by commandercryptarch on Mar 7, 2017 12:19:27 GMT
I am sure many of you have watched the Briefing Video 6. Suvi Anwar says the Nexus requires vast quantities of Helium 3,Water , Ice and Element 0.
What do they mean by water and ice. Last time I checked water is ice. Why treat it as a different thing?
Was that a major blunder by the writing staff or is there something I am not understanding here
:S
Edit: No this not an "attack" or "Bioware writing sucks" thread. I am just opening a conversation based on questions I had.I wanted peoples opinions on the water and ice subject from the video.
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Post by azarhal on Mar 7, 2017 12:26:57 GMT
Ice is the general term given to the solid state of something. It's not necessary H 2O. You can have CO 2 ice (aka dry ice) for example. They probably need ice as a cooling agent, what type it is doesn't matter, while water is needed to sustain life.
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Post by Gileadan on Mar 7, 2017 12:31:39 GMT
Are you sure it's Helium-3? Not Heleum-3 or some such? I don't understand the distinction between ice and water either. If you've got water, you've got ice - space is said to be pretty darn cold unless you approach a star, so cooling water to ice really shouldn't be an issue.
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commandercryptarch
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Post by commandercryptarch on Mar 7, 2017 12:36:36 GMT
Yeah I know ice doesn't necessarily have to be H20 but the phrasing was all weird.They don't clarify what ice they need so the viewer will automatically thing ice water . OK , let 's say they need a cooling agent why say ice at all? It seems kinda extra. If they have water then they have ice.
Anyway ,it is all hypothetical.We don't really know why the Nexus exactly needs these things. We can only wait and see.
I just thought it sounded a bit odd when I first heard. It 's another thing to hear someone say : " Hey I need a bucket of water and ice" And another hearing a science officer say : "the space station requires H3,H20,H20(?) and E0 "
They could have said "Dry Ice" to avoid confusion.Assuming they mean frozen CO2.
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inert
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Post by inert on Mar 7, 2017 13:36:04 GMT
Best case: Was supposed to be "water ice" and was flubbed either by voice actor or script.
Worst case: get ready to collect "both" in-game.
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Post by Ahriman on Mar 7, 2017 13:45:07 GMT
Best case: Was supposed to be "water ice" and was flubbed either by voice actor or script. I suspect it should have been metals/minerals, but then brain fart happened and nobody bothered to check all this. No. This can't be true. It's impossible.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 13:55:04 GMT
Gah... What is the problem with saying that the expeditions utilizes (needs) both forms? How they go about getting it in both forms was not stated. They could freeze water into ice or melt ice into water... that still doesn't make it a crime to say that the expedition needs both. Whether or not it's practical to just collect it in both forms depends on supply. It requires energy to convert it, which you'd expend if you have to... but if both are readily available in sufficient quantities, why expend the energy to convert one to the other? If they are both not available in sufficient quantities, then probably part of what you have to build is a facility to convert one to the other in sufficient quantities to meet the needs the expedition has for it. The energy, which Hyperion is running out of, would be the issue.
If I live in the arctic and need ice... I'll just collect it... and I'll probably have to heat some to meet all my needs for water. If I live in the tropics, I'll collect water and expend energy freezing it instead. I still have a need for both, right?
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Post by SalMasRac on Mar 7, 2017 14:11:18 GMT
"YAY, we've secured a planet with vast quantities of water! Let's start transporting it to the Nexus! Now we just need to secure a planet with vast quantities of ice, and we're all set!"
Some time later...!
"YAY, we've secured a planet with vast quantities of ice! Let's start transporting it to the Nexus! Now make sure we keep this ice under closely monitored conditions during transport, or else it will turn into water and the entire effort will have been fruitless!"
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 14:12:51 GMT
Mass Effect writing makes as much sense as Trump being president. It's nothing new.
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Post by ApocAlypsE on Mar 7, 2017 14:19:36 GMT
H2O is water. H2O2 is Hydrogen Peroxide, something else entirely.
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Post by warbaby2 on Mar 7, 2017 14:51:03 GMT
Mass Effect writing makes as much sense as Trump being president. It's nothing new. Even less so, by now, I'm afraid... From the totally nonsensical idea of having the whole Ai in the first place, to the way the expedition itself is setup, from the way it gets there, ect. Nothing speaks of good writing about it...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 14:55:49 GMT
Considering we know practically nothing about the story perhaps it is better not to jump to conclusions until you play the darn thing? Just saying.
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Post by Ahriman on Mar 7, 2017 15:01:21 GMT
"YAY, we've secured a planet with vast quantities of water! Let's start transporting it to the Nexus! Now we just need to secure a planet with vast quantities of ice, and we're all set!" Some time later...!"YAY, we've secured a planet with vast quantities of ice! Let's start transporting it to the Nexus! Now make sure we keep this ice under closely monitored conditions during transport, or else it will turn into water and the entire effort will have been fruitless!" "This is Nexus News Network and tonight we are reporting from XC-173, where pirates installed illegal facility which turns simple water into ice. As you can see Nexus security is being assisted by human Pathfinder team, so all criminals should be arrested or killed within an hour. Survivors without a doubt will face harsh punishment for their atrocities"
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Post by warbaby2 on Mar 7, 2017 15:01:29 GMT
Considering we know practically nothing about the story perhaps it is better not to jump to conclusions until you play the darn thing? Just saying. I'm jumping to nothing... I'm making an observation based on what we have been presented up until now. Also, because relevant...
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Post by vyndral on Mar 7, 2017 15:01:51 GMT
Perhaps Poppa Ryder is a huge Shadowrun fan. So we are looking for large amounts of black ice to protect our networks.
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Post by SalMasRac on Mar 7, 2017 15:23:42 GMT
Considering we know practically nothing about the story perhaps it is better not to jump to conclusions until you play the darn thing? Just saying. I'm jumping to nothing... I'm making an observation based on what we have been presented up until now. Also, because relevant... I'll see your Ice Pirates and raise you Flying Fuckernauts Versus the Astro Bastards of course don't watch this at work
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Post by commandercryptarch on Mar 7, 2017 15:34:06 GMT
Best case: Was supposed to be "water ice" and was flubbed either by voice actor or script. Worst case: get ready to collect "both" in-game. My concern derives from some of the visuals used in the video. While Suvi Anwar is explaining the needs of the Nexus, on screen we can see the Nexus and 4 bars similar to the ones we had in Mass Effect 2 when mining planets.
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Post by commandercryptarch on Mar 7, 2017 15:36:44 GMT
H2O is water. H2O2 is Hydrogen Peroxide, something else entirely. Sorry, typo. I wrote H2O2 first and then my phone kept autocorrecting to it.
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Post by commandercryptarch on Mar 7, 2017 15:47:07 GMT
Considering we know practically nothing about the story perhaps it is better not to jump to conclusions until you play the darn thing? Just saying. I was just asking a question that has to do with the sci-fi aspect of the game.Never implied anything about the story or quality of the game itself. I even said it above in my second post. We don't exactly know why the Nexus needs these things yet,we 'll have to wait and see.
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Post by Croatsky on Mar 7, 2017 16:15:13 GMT
Because for Nexus Station the will need massive quantities of ice.
Due to non-existent to early developed industrialization efforts, AI will simply not have capacity nor resources to create ice in massive quantities for long while.
Finding a planet with a ton of ice is far more convenient and efficient until you start having major urban cities with sprawling industries, which would take decades if not generations to appear.
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Post by SalMasRac on Mar 7, 2017 16:31:22 GMT
Because for Nexus Station the will need massive quantities of ice. Due to non-existent to early developed industrialization efforts, AI will simply not have capacity nor resources to create ice in massive quantities for long while. Finding a planet with a ton of ice is far more convenient and efficient until you start having major urban cities with sprawling industries, which would take decades if not generations to appear. Ok lookit, they clearly show construction of the Nexus occuring after reaching the Helius Cluster. It literally doubles in size. All they have to do to turn water into ice in space is build a box, fill it with water, and let it orbit the Nexus for a spell. It shouldn't take years or generations to build a sheet metal box.
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Post by Croatsky on Mar 7, 2017 16:58:51 GMT
Because for Nexus Station the will need massive quantities of ice. Due to non-existent to early developed industrialization efforts, AI will simply not have capacity nor resources to create ice in massive quantities for long while. Finding a planet with a ton of ice is far more convenient and efficient until you start having major urban cities with sprawling industries, which would take decades if not generations to appear. Ok lookit, they clearly show construction of the Nexus occuring after reaching the Helius Cluster. It literally doubles in size. All they have to do to turn water into ice in space is build a box, fill it with water, and let it orbit the Nexus for a spell. It shouldn't take years or generations to build a sheet metal box. Water is much heavier and denser then ice. It is far more efficient to cut the already existing ice and transport it. Instead of manufacturing thousands of metal boxers specifically for putting water better suited for agriculture, transport it from planet to nexus and just wait til it's frozen.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 7, 2017 18:56:01 GMT
It kind of amazes me that people who do not understand basic science complain about bioware making huge blunders and poor writing. Though 'water ice' is the most common form of ice it is not the only one. You have dry ice as an immediate example. And any liquid which at room.temperature which turns into a solid the solid form is ice.
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Post by kukumburr on Mar 7, 2017 20:03:44 GMT
When people say 'ice' without specifying what type of ice they mean water. It is a little silly for them to separate the two but this is just nitpicking. And if the Nexus is capable of cryonics it is absolutely capable of freezing water. Although it'd probably be easier to find ice and just melt it as needed.
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Post by spacebeetle on Mar 7, 2017 20:39:33 GMT
Well, considering we're in space, if you need ice of anything it's enough to open an airlock after depressurizing the compartment. You wouldn’t even need metal boxes: a condom would be all the recipient you would need… Just repeat it, repeat it ad nauseam. I hardly think you need a specialized facility to convert gaseous or liquid matter in its solid form, when you’re already in space (not with the technological marvels you already have on the Arks/Nexus). Or, better yet, just jury rig a conduit and make it pass outside the Nexus or the Arks: by dispersing heat in the vacuum, gas would liquefy by condensation. The trick would only be regulating the flux so that the conduit doesn’t obstruct itself with the ice: so, if you need liquid CO2, or O2, you can’t use the same “exposed” length you would use for water’s vapour (Of course, I’m implying you already have reserves of the resource you need to liquefy/ solidify). You need it frozen (I would ask why, but ok)? Just build a container of omnigel, fill it and exposed it. Dissolve the omnigel and rebuild the cage and do it again and again… But again, this is a basic solution with very limited in universe tech. From ME, I expect at least a laser cooling system, similar in functioning to the Avalanche heavy weapon from ME2.
For this blunder, I’m going with a mistake on the writer parts: maybe it meant hydrogen (who was used in its metallic state to fuel the engine of the SR2). The word “Hydrogen” shares the root with ὑδρο, “water” in ancient Greek. So, maybe it was meant water & hydrogen (metallic), and instead we got water and ice. What surprises me more is that the mistake got the green light… no one said or thought “what am I reading?” and decided to solve this inconsistency? I suppose they are wasted by the stress from the upcoming launch, but come on people: good stories are built in their details…
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